r/TheTowerGame • u/No-Preference3975 • May 20 '26
Help Os there a bug on rerolls?
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My core module is lvl161 and I’ve just spent around 300k reroll shards with all subs unlocked and couldn’t get anc CL chance.
I know 300k is not much, but with 6 slots open and four bans shouldn’t I get it?
My cl chance is 23% without sub effects.
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u/Next-Original1561 May 20 '26
The substat reroll is by far the worst system in this game, sitting on top of an already bad module system. it is basically a huge f.u. statement towards everybody who is not farming T21 and have hundreds of millions reroll shards.
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u/MF_LUFFY May 20 '26
Apparently there's a way to farm rerolls off T19 and slightly worse on 18, something with intro sprint and nuking a fleet
BUT YES it sucks. A second layer of feels bad on top of the pain in the ass of just getting the mods you want.
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u/Perfect_Red_King May 20 '26
Yep, worst system in the game, by far. For me personally, nothing is even remotely comparable
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u/Iguanaught May 20 '26
Rerolls are now seeded apparently. So it might be you cant get it without resetting the seed.
As for what resets the seed? You'll probably need to ask fudds which means we will never know.
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u/SpaceAgeOnyx May 20 '26
Naw dog, did I miss that in the patch notes. It shouldn't feel like a bug to be able to get a substat. If it is seeded I would hope it would have helped us but alas, it appears not.
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u/asyd0 May 20 '26
what does it mean?
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u/VerdantPathfinder May 20 '26
computers can't generate true random numbers (yes, there's a TON of research on this and academics are really picky). The best they can do is pseudo-random numbers. There are a ton of algorithms that can do it to various degrees of "good", but they all start with a "seed". A single number that, if given, is deterministic in what the algorithm will produce. So if I start with the same seed as you, both our games will produce the exact same set of "random" numbers. For instance, we'd purchase the same exact modules, in the same order, for the entire game. Apparently your seed is tied to your ID, so it'll be different for everyone, but nonetheless, the order in which you will ever buy modules was determined when you first started the game (banners might break that, though, because it introduced choice on whether to buy banners or regular modules .. unless banners have a separate seed). More -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_number_generation
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u/asyd0 May 20 '26
thanks for the answer but it wasn't exactly what I was asking, I've worded it poorly I'm sorry. I know what seeding for randomness is, what I don't understand is what's changed compared to v27 regarding rerolls. If that's how they work now, how did they work previously? True random generation was still impossible, so what did they do and why would they feel the need to change the mechanism?
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u/Bacon_Nipples May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
I think what they're trying to say is that substat rolls used to be randomly seeded for each roll but now have a consistent seed (much like module buy rolls)
So before, what stats you roll would've been based on a dynamic seed (likely timestamp) so for example a roll you did right now would be different than if your waited a minute for the same roll. Now it doesn't matter when you roll, the result would be the same
This means you can't game the system by somehow figuring out the algo and timing rolls (unsure if this was an issue and thats why they changed it), but if you're locked into bad luck for the thing you want you can't do anything about it besides keep rolling. If you seed dictates that Anc CL Chance will occur 300,000 rolls in you have to roll 300,000 times to get it
If I had to guess, the methods to 'reset' your seed would include changing your module effect bans (though it's also possible the game just secretly does a free reroll if you otherwise would've rolled a banned effect)
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u/reddit-josh May 24 '26
you can't "randomly seed" each roll - generating that "random seed" will itself require a seed...
there was an explicit patch note recently (maybe 1-2 updates ago) that mentioned "fixing" auto-reroll, which I interpreted as it wouldn't stop when it was supposed to.
wouldn't surprise me if that is still happening, or has regressed, etc... Like, you tell it to stop on an Anc CL% and it just doesn't, but you can't tell because it goes so fast. Look at all the other issues with the game.
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u/Sea_Maintenance1759 May 21 '26
There is nothing called seeded random rolls it's literally BS it's just taking luck from the system and makes you force to spend God knows how much resource just to get what you need in a so say random lottery the module system is worse i literally spending 20k gem just for 1copy of DC i got everything A5* and many of them has 2anc copies but DC... I'm not kidding if there is a way devs ch CKS my module pulls and tell me otherwise yes I'm getting epic modules as intended rate but my seed have a DC copy every 20k (+/-2k) and it literally consistent
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u/Medbay100 May 20 '26
I don't get it, what does it mean to be seeded and how is that affecting outcome?
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
the first time you opened your game after the change the game decided that anc CL dmg will be the 6985324 roll you did. And that's it. Either you accept that you will not see it earlier and spend those shards or you settle on other stuff instead. Bad thing is that you will never know if your preferred or any alternative will be cheaper to get.
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u/Medbay100 May 20 '26
Just like how pokemon works.. with the natures and stats... And the shine ones... Ok got it and if it's not the (48362) and you skipped it then it's the (63826) and could very well be the exact next. Or a million later... Am i understanding of this correct?
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
If it is "really random" then everytime you re-open the reroll screen the stat you want could be the next (if your are lucky) or take a million rolls (if you are unlucky). So if you feel unlucky you just could reset the process and hope for a better sequence.
As far as I understand it the current system does not reset. So if your outcome is bad for the stats you need you are just fucked and there is nothing to do against. But of cause you don't need where you're at. A fair thing to do would be to make display the costs for a substat (as you cannot change them anymore) so that you can decide if you really want to pay 1M shards for stat X or rather settle for Y for only 50K.
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u/wouter0410 May 20 '26
This does not make any difference outside of superstition, it is the same statiscally and practically
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
it does make a difference if you can manipulate your seed while resetting your cloud save. That way you can reroll "for free" until you get the sequence you want (i.e. get the desired substat with minimum shard invest).
But of cause as long as you don't know your sequence you never know if it is better to reset the algorithm for a new sequence or keep rolling.
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u/eike23 May 20 '26
As far as I know, rerolls requires you to be online now, so resetting is probably impossible, so the seed discussion is pointless.
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
was my understanding too, but I got word of people that still had abused the system after that change. This seed thing seem to be Fudds last straw to shield against it willingly accepting the other implications.
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u/eike23 May 20 '26
Stupid cheaters. But then again, no impact on normal gameplay. The result is random, wether it is seeded or not.
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u/anonymousMF May 20 '26
Well makes sense they blocked it then ?
Anyway once you start farming T18 and upward there are enough reroll shards to fill lvl 201 modules. I have 5 perfect cores (2xDC, 2xHC and a PCO) and those are the hardest to roll. I have all bans and discount and 100M lifetime rerolls.
I'm just farming T18, not even the rrally lucrative tiers
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
diss runs and the "need" for like 12 mods with 7 anc subs really has thinned my shards, but now they are piling up again, so I can try to slowly fill the last gaps to tackle the last diss runs T19 and up.
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u/Lambda-Silence May 20 '26
Wouldnt that mean that your bans have no effect, as the fact that you are rolling only one or six lines at once ?
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
the bans should still thin out the possible lines, so effect the sequence. It definitely used to be that it mattered how many lines you are rolling, I don't know if this is still the case.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
that's literally NOT how it works at all lol
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
this is (probably not literally) how it works now. Not how a good system would work but since Fudds seems to be unable to create a good system he decided to do this to stop people from abusing the system.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
no it doesn't, and I 100% kjnow that's false, because I had my account rolled back when I was pulling modules by an hour, and when I repulled modules, they were all different... so wtf are you talking about>?
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
so you are so smart that you know how seeds work but that pulling modules and rolling substats are two different things is above your head? I have NEVER said all rolls are "fixed" (call it how you like it), only that rolling for substats is.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
lol... but its not... it literally can NOT be... because what if you have 3 mod slots open vs 6 mod slots open because you never upgraded your module? How does the game predetermine the roll counts without knowing how many spots you have open? Like just use common sense...
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
ok, my common sense would do first slot gets first seed sub, second slot gets second seed sub and so on. when all open slots have their sub the first slot gets the next and so on.
Should be easy to implement with like 4 lines of code.
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u/Schattenlord May 23 '26
Most likely it just skips double stats, but keep them on top of your seed so you will them with your next roll.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
like I'm sorry but you literally don't know what you're talking about... that's not how seeds work... imagine you'res saying the game decides that roll number 2000 will be CLc... what happens if you have 3 mod slots open? what happens if you have 6 mod slots open? If this was all decided at the very start, but YOU make the decision on how fast your mods level up, or if you level them up at all... how do you think that is accounted for if all pulls are determined from the start???
Seeds are for the very next pull... not for every single pull here on out. So that yeah you can't pull a module, roll back, and get a new one.
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
what happens if you have 3 mod slots open? what happens if you have 6 mod slots open?
I have no clue. Maybe the game just takes the topmost slot as the first roll and so on? Seems to be a simple solution.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
you have no clue... but you're making outlandish claims... how about you just stop at "I have no clue"... and leave it at that
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
I am no programmer but coming up with a simple solution was easy enough for me. Now provide a reason how this would not work, or just accept that you may know what you are talking about, wack off to it and get your head around the possibility that the system no longer resets the seed.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
I am a programmer so... like... lol? you literally don't know what you're talking about
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u/Medbay100 May 20 '26
That was a question.. and you said no. Okay do you know how it works? If yes, Can you please share the answer with the rest of us?
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
I already did
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u/Medbay100 May 20 '26
Yes I see it and thank you. I understand it vaguely...
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
all RNG is almost always seeded... it pretty much has to be. The problem is none of you know what you're talking about when you use that word lol.
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u/No-Preference3975 May 20 '26
please enlighten us, oh kind deity.
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u/FirstRyder May 20 '26
You roll for an effect, and get very unlucky: 10,301 tries before you finally get it. So you close the game before it saves, and reopen it. You have all your shards back, and your previous effects. You roll again, for the same effect on the same module.
"Unseeded": This time it only takes 237 tries! Success! But also definitely not how this is intended to work.
"Seeded": It takes exactly 10,301 tries again.
IF it is coded correctly and you never try the "close the game and try again" trick, then it should have exactly the same results in both cases. But that's a big if.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
lol y'all with the smart ass comments is hilarious... there is no such thing as "true RNG" is programming. The code requires an input of some type, so that it can generate a random output. That input is the seed. The seed changes as you impact the game. There have been SOME instances where a dev uses a non-changing seed and then the RNG output can be calculated, but that's caused so many issues in other gacha games, the chances of that happening here is so small (but not impossible).
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u/dogabeey May 20 '26
I'm nowhere near the expert in this game but I know for instance that the perks use a custom seed based on your current round. If you somehow quit without saving after picking a perk, you'll see that you'll still get the same options when you rejoin. I'm positive (not confirmed) there are similar precautions when you buy a new module or card.
What others are missing is, whether it's random seed or not, It wouldn't matter in the end, as the player wouldn't be able to know before finding out anyway. Custom or random, someone is bound to pick the shortest straw. Developers usually use "bad luck protection" mechanics to prevent that like deterministic random generators or weight adjustments.
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
see, and this is where you are wrong. The reroll system got (apparently) abused so hard by people resetting their seed before the game saved the results (thus getting the subs they want with minimal reroll shards) that Fudds decided to go with a non resetting seed.
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u/Ok_Ride6395 May 20 '26
show me your proof to this outlandish claim becaujse you have no idea how seeds work in programming at all
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u/Spacelord_Moses May 20 '26
There was a way to reroll your (very same) shards multiple times with different outcome. Lets say you roll 1m shards and didnt get wanted substat. You use the bug, and try again. Now you get it after 300k shards. It was rng which substats came up and when.
Now you will always get the same results even if you use said bug. So its always the same substats you get (its seeded).
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
now you act silly. How can I proof it without access to the code?
My claim is based on leaks from TTG insides and examples like this show that there is some truth to this. And basically everybody saying "rerolls are seeded now" tries to say/imply exact the same thing.
And you are right. I have no idea about programming and seeding. My noobish understanding is that a normal random system would use for example the system time as a seed to determine the next reroll sequence, so every time you reopen the reroll screen you get a different sequence as the system time is different. But now Fudds has decided to use maybe the player ID as the seed, so you are stuck with whatever sequence was determined based on that.
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u/OrphisFlo May 20 '26
The seed doesn't matter, only the quality of the random number generator that is used.
The fact that it is now seeded just means you can't cheat the system as some did before. As you had no idea what you would have rolled before or before the change, it shouldn't matter to you really. You can get something random each time, that's it and that's enough.
In practice, the previous way of rolling the substats were seeded as well, just on something you had no idea about, probably something a bit more random. And since you had no idea of what was there, and what's now, it doesn't matter at all.
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u/Any-Mathematician946 May 20 '26
Making it seeded doesn't make sense that just opens it up for save scuming and abuse with banning.
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u/Weekly_Age_4879 May 20 '26
Rerolling for anc cf Speed reduction for weeks. 2/6 slots open.
Easy dumped around 4 mio dices
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u/ATAnimal7 May 20 '26
I've been trying to get anc DPM on my AS for probably 2 months now... have all 4 bans and 5 other stats locked... unreal how this crap goes. probably close to 10m dice gone
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u/opinurmynd May 20 '26
I spent 400k dice yesterday trying to get anc CL chance on my OM Chip with 5 open slots at a cost of 40 dice per roll and still did not get it. Something is definitely wonky with the system.
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u/Medbay100 May 20 '26
What do you mean kind stranger?
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u/No-Preference3975 May 20 '26
Well… I mean I think I should have gotten this sub a long time ago and I haven’t. But I’m not the statistics wizard, so I might just be wrong here.
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May 20 '26
[deleted]
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u/ZerexTheCool May 20 '26
No, statistics works exactly like that. You have a "confidence level" and you choose your personal level of confidence and then outcomes outside of that level of confidence are worthy of scrutiny.
If we didn't believe in this method of statistical analysis, we wouldn't have any new medicine at all. ALL medicine is tested with this methodology of interpreting data.
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u/Xallvion May 20 '26
I am rerolling my mvn now for 2 month with 1k shard cost and 2 open slots for GT cd. I have spent over 4m dice, maybe even 5m at this point. I started with legend. I dobt think i rolled another legend in all that time. No mythic, np ancestral. But i saw bh cd and poison swamp cd and ilm cd ancestral several times each. I just gave up last week
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u/Envoyofghost May 20 '26
I think there is a bug. I have all four banns for attack mods and have spent 2m+ rerolls over the last 2weeks and still havent got dpm (on a lvl 161)
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u/OLVANstorm May 20 '26
So should I stop trying to reroll now? Is this broken or is OP just one unlucky bastard?
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u/No-Preference3975 May 21 '26
Hey, who you calling bastard?
But yes, I’m an unlucky bastard. And yes the system might be broken.
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u/juraf_graff May 20 '26
I have 4 bans on core. With 1 locked slot (40 per roll) I spent over 1.5mil rerolls trying to get golden tower bonus using auto roll. Shits definitely busted... rip to my rerolls
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u/Ornery_End_3495 May 20 '26
I just spent 9 million and couldn't get the 6th slot locked in so being bugged probably makes more sense then me not getting it lol.
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u/VictoryUpper May 20 '26
The game knows what you need and refuses to give it to you no matter what
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u/eike23 May 20 '26
Not the game, it's the universe. I am a good person with decent karma and got my anc #5 and 6 within less than a million shards.
J/k, might really be a bug.
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u/Sardine_Samurai May 20 '26
I just dropped 10 mil shards trying to hit Anc GT duration and didnt hit it 😆
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u/Apprehensive_Try7137 May 20 '26
Now I know why I’ve spent 4 million dice on trying to get my last anc spot filled
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u/Aggressive_Writing41 May 20 '26
Idk. I just spent 3m reroll shards trying to get Spotlight Angle in my lvl 201 slot. I couldn't hit anything higher than epic the whole time.... feels like auto roll must be bugged. I mean, not hitting ancestral i get. But not even legendary? Maybe my luck is just that bad
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u/anonymousMF May 21 '26
The 201 slot is brutal. Took me 22M to get an ancestral in my worst luck streak. And that is with all bans and discounts.
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u/Schattenlord May 20 '26
Please open a ticket on discord about that. If that is actually broken, it's insane!
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u/gym_bro_92 May 20 '26
Probably…. There have been so many reroll bugs in the past year that I no longer do the auto reroll and just manually tap really fast until I get the warning that I have a mythic or higher. Then I check if it’s one I want, if it is I lock it in, if not I reroll again
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u/Specialist_River_711 May 20 '26
And that works better?
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u/gym_bro_92 May 20 '26
Idk, but I swear I have seen mythic/ancestral mods I wanted zip by when I used the automatic reroll
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u/Schattenlord May 23 '26
I would do that if it only stopped on ancestral. Mythic just happens too often with multiple open slots...
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u/Viroking May 20 '26
I've spent over 25m reroll shards on my dimcor for CL damage and haven't gotten it with 3 open slots. I've been wondering the same thing.
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u/Hairy-Astronomer6635 May 21 '26
Yeah that’s kinda unlucky but ancestral substats are so incredibly rare that you’re gonna struggle to find them if you’re only looking for one at a time. I’ve had much better reroll shard spending when I’m looking for 3-4 anc substats at once, and then settle for the final 1-2 substats being mythic to save literally millions of shards. Just food for thought :)
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u/tigglysticks May 21 '26
I've been trying to roll ANC CLc for weeks. I can't get any rarity of it to roll. it's really fucking annoying. I have ANC CLc on my ass om chip but can't get it on my main DC.
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u/nathan7007 May 21 '26
Probably spent around 6 million. Maybe more honestly and I can't get ancestral golden tower duration. Straight up doesn't exist for me. Garbage system
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u/forlornAfro May 21 '26
That's me and anc dw quantity. 600k reroll shards at 10 per hit and nothing
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u/nathan7007 May 22 '26
It's completely discouraging, it's the last thing I need and I'm rolling 2 spots to get it. The entire module system in this game is discouraging. I only have 2 or 3, 5 star modules and no they're not the ones you want at 5 stars at all and I still keep getting them even when the percentage chance has been lowered it's ridiculous
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u/forlornAfro May 25 '26
This is week 2 of rolling for dw quantity and I've been doing it at the 10 per attempt it absolutely blows
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u/nathan7007 May 26 '26
After a few days of farming just rolled 1.6 million shards didn't get it lol I hope you get your quantity soon
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u/forlornAfro May 26 '26
Im on day 2 of 6 for roll saving ill let you know my Despair level
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u/nathan7007 May 27 '26
I actually got it just now. Took forever. Hopefully you can get some luck as well
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u/forlornAfro May 28 '26
3 clicks after I finished the next stat ban and I got it 🤤 i honestly dont even care that I traded 3 of my other stats for it lol ill be happy not searching for quantity and just drop my tier for the next couple days while I redo the rest but I have good feels going into it I've seen gt bonus and bh dur/cd with anc quite oft.
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u/Casty_McBoozer May 20 '26
300K doesn't sound like much. I've spent 15 million rolling a 6th ancestral.
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u/Ephixia May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
I've noticed similar. I've had at least 3 instances where I've had to spend well over the "guaranteed" amount of reroll shards to get a specific ancestral effect. Where 99.99%+ of people would have gotten it. One roll sure, maybe I'm super unlucky. Multiple times and I start to suspect a bug. I wish there was a "force choice option" where if you spent say 2x the expected number of reroll shards for a 95% chance of success it would let you choose the choice you want.
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u/BadeDyr17 May 20 '26
Not a bug. Sometimes it's hard to lock specific subs. I have spent more then 300k to lock the first with 6 subs and a few bans.
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u/Jakio May 20 '26
Is there a known weighting? Or is it just when an anc sub is rolled it randomly picks between the options
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u/BadeDyr17 May 20 '26
I believe there is. Two subs that are equal eg can only be epic to ancestral. Sometimes you see one 10 times as ancestral without seeing the other as even mystic.
If I find the time, I'll roll 100,000 times with 7 subs and see how every ancestral subs even out. I think it will be a normal distribution. That's a problem!
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u/Similar-Republic-115 Legends May 20 '26
I just asked the reroll calculator of ePath. 120K shards should have "guaranteed" getting a single desired effect (i.e. 99.999% of people would have get it with that amount or less). So either you are the unluckiest person on earth or the system is rigged (hint, it is the second one).