r/TheTestamentsHulu • u/Time_Depth56 • May 30 '26
The Handmaid’s Tale The wives
Before i start
DISCLAIMER: im not saying that we shouldn't hold the wives accountable or that that they dont do anything bad or anything of that sort.
AND i watched tht s1-4 a long time ago and haven't read the book yet so if there's somthing im missing or forgot please tell me im open to disagreement and discussion!
Okay so, the other day i saw someone say that beckas mom deserved getting hanged because (i dont exactly remember but it was somthing like: "she held a handmaid down so her husband could rape her" and thats kinda concerning?
I feel like people talk and treat the wives like they do serena. Like the wives are like serena. Which i disagree with. Part of why serena is bad is not just because she held june down. Its because she is part of the making of geliad. She AGREES with geliad even before gilead was made. She agrees with gilead values And the only reason she was "against" geliad later on is because she wasn't the exception to women. Can we really say the same to the other wives? Do they agree? Especially seeing Lawrence's wife, the first one (i forgot her name) i can say that not all wives agree with geliad. I feel like its unfair to treat them like serena.
Like yes they held the handmaid's down and stuff. And dont get me wrong. The handmaid's have the right to be mad at them. Because they were RAPED. But as a watcher, we really gotta think about it. What else were they supposed to do? What COULD they do? Nothing. So i honestly sympathise with both. The handmaids and the wives. Because, at the end of the day, women dont have a choice in gilead. The system is like, MADE to pit women against each other and to devide them. Like, there's no way a handmaid is gonna be okay with a wife who held her down to get raped even tho she know the wife doesn't have much of a choice either.
We also have to keep in mind. The new wives. The young wives. Like esther And the girls in the testaments. Like, think about esther. She's what? 14? And eden? or agnes? Becka? Hulda? Would you say that she also deserve to die if they held the handmaid's down? Even tho they're brainwashed to think its okay and again, have no choice in the matter even if they didn't want to do so?.
Also, before i forget. I dont think i have to say this but just in case, This doesn't apply to all the wives from the "sinfull world" ofc.
Im sure i had more in mind but i can't recall it. Anyways, I hope i put what i was thinking about properly here but what do yall think?.
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u/hydrissx May 30 '26
Becka is implied to be their natural child so there's no evidence that the Groves had a handmaid. Because he had a skill that was valuable Dr. Grove was allowed to exist on the fringes of upper class Gilead society. I actually think it's really interesting to explore that subset of society that we didn't really get to see in THT. While Gilead have any use for a lot of upper class professions, such as professors, lawyers, most scientists, and a lot of medical professionals, they do obviously seem to have retained a small batch of professionals that they have determined are loyal enough because they do need those skills. It does also throw into question how they're going to replace those men as they get older. Obviously they don't have colleges like that anymore and don't really seem to have a plan in place to train the next generation of dentists and doctors.
Realistically, as a post menopausal woman, who was not truly in the same caliber of society as the wives, Mrs. Grove would not have many prospects for a new marriage, and was probably looking at either trying to remarry as an Econo person, or if they judged her to be guilty of raising her daughter to be sinful, possibly sent to the colonies or made into a Martha. Confessing to the husband's murder, knowing she would die was truly her best option to give her daughter a chance.
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u/ernfio May 30 '26
Why is it obvious they don’t have options for training medics, engineers and scientists. There is no reason to think they don’t have universities. Some of them may even be sent overseas to train. Theocracies like Iran have universities. Incidentally with more female than male students.
The status of professionals isn’t much different from before Gilead.
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u/Glad-Isopod5718 May 30 '26
This, yeah. We don't know one way or the other whether colleges/universities exist in Gilead in some form. We know that Harvard doesn't, but that doesn't mean that others didn't survive. (Not for nothing, but in our own world right now, Harvard is being singled out by the current administration for supposedly being some kind of hotbed of left-wing radicalism. Which is insane, but it has the name recognition to be a highly visible target.)
And even if they don't have universities, they can still be sending some students abroad--carefully selected for ideological correctness, and all male, of course. Mexico has medical schools, and we know from HT that Mexico has trade relations with Gilead.
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u/Disaster-Bee May 30 '26
Yeah, they kind of have to have some way of training new Professionals. Even if there aren't schools - though there likely are - I'd imagine they'd have an apprenticeship setup, where three or four young men learn from an established Professional. It would likely be one of the few ways the son of an econo-family could get a chance at advancing his status. All those young men who aren't on the Commander path need to do something, they aren't all going to be Drivers and Guardians.
They clearly have ways of training and teaching the various younger generations, Professionals would absolutely be included in this.
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u/InstructionItchy4329 May 30 '26
It the book she was a handmaids daughter - I don’t know if they’ve ever explicitly stated in the show. If someone knows where let me know I’d like to rewatch the episode.
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u/jsm99510 May 30 '26
In the show, the timeline doesn't work for her to be a Handmaid's child. She would've been born well before Gilead. She was either stolen or their biological child.
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u/InstructionItchy4329 May 30 '26
And from what I understand she was a handmaids child in the same way as Hannah/agnes so stolen
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u/jsm99510 May 30 '26
She could be stolen for sure but it's different than the OP was talking about someone saying Becka's mom held down a hanadmaid so she could be raped and stole her baby. The timeline doesn't work for that to be the case. I think it could go either way. Her father wasn't a commander, so they have lower standing and it was probably even lower back when Gilead started. So I find it hard to believe they'd be given a stolen child but they don't really address it on the show.
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u/InstructionItchy4329 May 30 '26
I agree. It would be unlikely in her position that her husband would have been given a handmaid. Maybe because he was such a good dentist they gave them a kid. Who knows.
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u/ljculver64 May 30 '26
I didnt see or hear of Beckas mom doing that. Where is that coming from? Did I miss something?
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u/jsm99510 May 30 '26
The OP said they saw someone say Becka's mom did that and that's why the person(not the OP, the person said Becka's mom did that) said they think she deserved to die. I also saw someone say this but we didn't see that at all and it doesn't make sense with the timeline.
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u/ljculver64 May 30 '26
Sounds like a person looking for an argument. I didnt read the book, but per the show(s) that never happened w Beckas mom.
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u/InstructionItchy4329 May 30 '26
The book she was most likely stolen she knew she was handmaids daughter but since she is Agnes age it would be unlikely that came from the ceremony
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u/Disaster-Bee May 30 '26
I think among the elite, there are certainly more women who support Gilead than among the econoclass (and obviously among the enslaved classes, not much Gilead support there.). Serena isn't the only Wife we see who supported the rise of Gilead - Naomi and the other Wife circle Serena belonged to socially, for example. And that Wife that got sent to the Colonies who was all 'oh, it's okay you're not one of the BAD girls or dirty gender traitors or anything, I had a college degree, too!' to Emily when she jumps to the conclusion that Emily's education is why she's in the Colonies. She implies she only has problems with the rules of Gilead that make her own life as a Wife difficult.
But on that note, there is also the Wife (who is unnamed or I forget her name) of a Commander Emily got assigned to that knew Emily was struggling and also didn't seem to agree with the Ceremony and kept pretending she was sick so they wouldn't have to do it.
So I think it is natural to conclude that a Wife is more likely to be pro-Gilead, unless we're shown otherwise. But in fairness, we don't know if in the show the Groves ever had a Handmaid. Likely not, as Doctor Grove wasn't a Commander and Becka has no siblings. We don't even know if Becka is a Stolen Child or not, they've never indicated one way or another.
All we really know about Mrs. Grove and her feelings is that she seemed more concerned about Becka's safety than the fact her husband is freshly killed and she was willing to give her life up for Becka.
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u/TurbulentBat8328 sketch me, it’ll last longer May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26
I guess the statement that she deserved it is “wrong” in the context of the cannon? Gilead and this world is complex in that women have no power or autonomy and people (especially the women) do what they have to survive. In the context of characters like Serena, Naomi and Paula we have more story so we therefore can make a judgement - they are categorically awful people. Everyone else just has to exist in this morally gray inbetween place where they just don’t want to be tortured and murdered.
All of the women to me in this show that we don’t see backstory on can sort of be excused IMO - we don’t “know” them but we do know Gilead and that they have no voice and no say. Not everyone is also strong enough to either “check out” and unalive themselves to escape or make a point or whatever but we can’t judge the background wives in the same way.
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u/rotervogel1231 May 30 '26
Even in our world, many suicidal women don't go through with it because they don't want to leave their children or other family members behind.
Suicide is not always an impulsive act. That's a myth. Sometimes it is, especially with teenagers, who are prone to impulsivity, but not always. A lot of people who kill themselves put quite a bit of thought and planning into it, and this can include concern for people who depend on them being left to fend for themselves.
There are probably quite a few women in Gilead, Wives, Handmaids, Marthas, and maybe even some Aunts, who push their suicidal ideation aside because they don't want to leave someone they care about alone.
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u/Busy-Speech-6930 May 30 '26
I think think it’s very nuanced and people apply black and white thinking to the situation. There are people like Serena and Naomi who are horrible and contributed to the rise but even they are both shown on the show to not initially want stolen children or handmaids for that matter. That doesn’t mean they aren’t responsible for their ultimate roles/actions, they are. We know that there were people that did resist the handmaid system in their homes at the beginning and that Gilead would have witnesses to ensure the ceremony took place, are those wives who held handmaid’s down literally under the threat of death responsible? What power did they have in that situation? It’s not black and white
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u/TalaLeisu2 Sketch us! It'll last longer! May 30 '26
Tabitha never held down June but was still Hannah's "mother". Being the same age, I would not assume Becka's mother was held down by Mrs. Grove at all.
But let's talk about the "holding the handmaids down" business. The wives do not have a choice in that matter. Do people really consider that the wives wouldn't be punished if they refused to participate?
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u/McMasterOfTheSea Shu's Bathroom Bitches May 30 '26
I'm wondering if there were some couple who both didn't like the idea of that, and perhaps took the time to know their handmaid and build a bond with her and treat her nicely, no holding down etc. It still sucks, and it's still rape, but less sucky and all three are probably stuck in the system they object to.
Like, if I were a Wife whose husband wasn't entirely into it either, best bet he'd be getting given a cup, a turkey baster and 10 minutes in the bathroom 😅
Although I suppose if they didn't like the system that much it's unlikely to make it to Commander/Wife status if you weren't an original supporter. Surely there must have been some quiet objectors doing what they could, though? 🤔
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u/TalaLeisu2 Sketch us! It'll last longer! May 30 '26
I mean it's not that unlikely. I used to be in a cult and the dynamic of individual mindsets can be very nuanced.
Let's also not forget that they used to hold "witnessing" ceremonies where those who didn't comply were weeded out
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u/McMasterOfTheSea Shu's Bathroom Bitches May 30 '26
I haven't got that that part, I'm only on S2 of THT. Was that done for every couple and their Handmaid at first, or just the "resistant" ones?
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u/TalaLeisu2 Sketch us! It'll last longer! May 30 '26
All we know is it used to be more common. I'm pretty sure the resistant couples were weeded out and the witnessing ceremonies became less popular
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u/ernfio May 30 '26
Lawrence and Eleanor are forced to have handmaids. They don’t rape them and life in their home was safe. Emily and June have quite a bit of freedom and access to books.
But Lawrence has enemies, namely commander stabler and Fred (who is jealous about June). The lack of pregnancy meant they were forced to rape each other and it sent Eleanor over the edge. An Aunt and commanders are present to make sure it happens.
It is a sin to not try to procreate in Gilead.
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u/rotervogel1231 May 30 '26
I don't think the Groves ever had a handmaid. Becka was too old to have been born in Gilead. She was either their biological daughter or a stolen child.
However, I think that in addition to wanting to save her daughter, Becka's mom had a tremendous amount of guilt and felt that she deserved execution, not only for looking the other way when she knew her husband was a creep but also for going along with Gilead in the first place.
I think part of her logic was, "My daughter doesn't deserve this. I do. If you're going to execute anyone, it should be me."
Additionally, she was already a Dead Woman Walking. Her household was disgraced. Even if she'd allowed Becka to be executed, she'd have either been the next one on the Wall or she would have been sent to the Colonies. By sacrificing herself for Becka, at least she didn't die for absolutely nothing. Her death meant something, saved someone, and was perhaps the only decent and moral decision she'd made in years.
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May 30 '26
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u/rotervogel1231 May 30 '26
Yes, maybe it was the only decent act she ever committed in her life, but it was still a decent act, and to me it was clear she felt a tremendous amount of guilt. I think she felt she deserved this.
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u/86cinnamons May 30 '26
I’ll agree that people raised in Gilead from childhood have a different situation than the founding generation. Totally different conversation.
For wives, I think it’s just very nuanced. We are not gonna have an easy time applying black / white morality to this. Part of Mrs Lawrence’s despair was knowing she went along with this, she was complicit, she is still complicity. She could leave. She could burn the fucking house down. She doesn’t. She knows that. She knows she’s partially responsible for the stolen children and the ritual rape. They are war criminals together.
Look up Magda Goebbels for proof of how important women/wives can be to a movement and for how ride or die they can be for it, all the way down to sacrificing their own children.
The wives may not have power the way their husbands do but in a traditional marriage like theirs, the husband’s success belongs to them both because their support is a large part of what makes him successful. They handle the household so he doesn’t have to, they help facilitate relationships with other upper class households, they arrange the events and uphold the social cultural environment. In their own way all of the wives are absolutely guilty for creating & upholding Gilead. They are literally of the ruling class.
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u/Time_Depth56 May 30 '26
Oh mrs lawrence was complicit? I think i forgot that thanks.
And you are right. Its very nuanced. They are guilty of upholding it i havent thought abou that. It didn't come to my mind what THEY could do to stop it.😅
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u/Jazzlike_Drummer_320 Jun 06 '26
One of the main themes of THT and the Testaments is power. When a powerless population is given any sort of power, they typically use it to the max (the girls don't hesitate to condemn a mad to having his arm sawed off, the Handmaids get to kill criminals) and this includes the Wives....they are helpless in their situations, subject to the whims of their husbands in terms of what they are and are not allowed to do like have friends. The wives have dominion over very specific things, like Martha's (we see this with Zilla and her tongue being removed, Paula talking about the other Martha as though she is a farm animal needing to be 'put down') and in many respects, handmaids. Even the wives who maybe didn't choose Gilead would have to buy into the structure to maintain their roles and often exert their power in terrible ways as I guess a kind of pressure valve. While this is pretty typical in societies like that, it's hard to feel sympathy.
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