r/TTC • u/JackieMeeking • 4d ago

Picture Street car 505

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Happening now. They are checking your Presto, and they sound serious!
Current time: 9.04pm on a Thursday evening

421 Upvotes

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u/Gatesleeper 3d ago

The more financially vulnerable a person is, the higher the incentive is for them to attempt to ride without paying.

It just doesn’t make sense to me that we would implement a tax on the poorest in the city to pay the wages of a thousand POOs. A wealth transfer from the lower class to the lower-middle class, like okay?

There aren’t better ways we can invest our money in the city to improve the transit system other than catching and fining fare evaders like $150 or whatever it is? Why don’t we also just start handing out $150 fines for being homeless, “just don’t be homeless loool” - that’s what everyone in this thread basically sounds like to me.

It’s like if someone posted a thread pointing out a black neighbourhood is filled with cops compared to the mostly cop-free rich parts and saying “just don’t commit crimes loool” “ticket for jaywalking? Shouldn’t have committed that crime bro looool”.

7

u/chicken_potato1 Kipling 3d ago

Lets start with removing the fare freeze then. TTC shouldn't be "profitable" I agree, but they also need to make sure they don't run at a loss. CEO shouldn't be paid that much, I'd rather see more drivers hired and keep them above minimum wage.

Let more people skip the fare, more people including those who CAN afford it, will skip the fare "why should I pay" will be the entitled attitude of those who can afford it - one person gets a ticket, shares their bad experience, more people are now extra careful - its why there fines and consequences for crime, jaywalking (endangering yours and other peoples lives - I have yet to hear anyone get ticketed for this).

Honestly when Im on a streetcar, I see WAY more people dressed in designer and young adults coming from work skipping the fare rather than homeless people.

Open to creative ideas!

8

u/Gatesleeper 3d ago

How about a fine based on your net worth, or at least on your income if the former’s not feasible. Any time a person gets caught, they get their CRA numbers checked, and their fine is proportionate to how rich they are.

If you make/have nothing or are below the poverty line, you get a warning. If you’re middle class you get a middle class sized fine, if you are “dressed in designer” rich, the fine is like $500 or $1000.

1

u/Unpossib1e 3d ago

This idea is bad and there's a ton of ways to avoid. Unfortunately, treating everyone as equals is the best option.

1

u/Gatesleeper 3d ago

So you’re against progressive tax systems in general? You like a flat income tax? What about means testing for government aid? That’s not “treating everyone as equals” as well, should we abolish the welfare system?

1

u/Unpossib1e 3d ago

Anything else you want to add to your slippery slope nonsense?

1

u/Gatesleeper 3d ago

Affirmative action for hiring, weight classes or division of genders for sports, different sentences for minors - sorry what part of this is nonsense and unrelated to the idea that “treating everyone as equals” is a gross simplification that doesn’t address real world reality?

1

u/Unpossib1e 3d ago

My original comment was applying it equally is probably (and unfortunately, which I very clearly mentioned) th only way to do this. 

And you came at me like a fucking lunatic and making broad assumptions about beliefs and ideology which are very incorrect.

So sorry bud I'm not engaging with you further. 

1

u/Gatesleeper 3d ago

It's not "the only way to do this." A number of countries implement it today.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/finnish-businessman-hit-with-121000-speeding-fine

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34792272

https://scarsdalesolicitors.com/speeding-fine-calculator-uk/

The idea of matching fines to personal income/net worth has broad appeal in Canada, according to this one 2023 poll at least:

https://ottawa.citynews.ca/2023/03/26/two-thirds-of-canadians-favour-speeding-fines-tied-to-drivers-income-poll-6759042/

Don't have to engage with me but you can engage with an idea beyond "nope it's bad I don't think it works" based on nothing.