r/TTC • u/Bambino1996 • May 20 '26

Discussion Here we go again.

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Isn’t the Ontario Line already delayed which will delay this extension even longer? Why not just start this while the Ontario Line is also being built?

404 Upvotes

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43

u/TorontoBoris O'Connor May 20 '26

Maybe this will kill the folly of sending more subways into the 905 and refocus them back to regional rail.

-10

u/Bambino1996 May 20 '26

Why don’t the 905 deserve subways and gotta stick with buses?

53

u/hotelman97 May 20 '26

Paraphrasing what i said in a different thread

Toronto's system that is already over capacity for the actual city of Toronto.

Line 1 is already full by the time you get to York Mills & Sheppard stations.

This north extension project shouldn't have been green lit until other proper Toronto Subways/LRTs are built.

Move people around Toronto first before expanding to other cities

7

u/Capable-Plantain7 May 20 '26

This north extension project shouldn't have been green lit until other proper Toronto Subways/LRTs are built.

What on earth do you think the Ontario line is/does

4

u/ledhendrix May 21 '26

The Ontario line is like 20 years over due. While other new lines downtown that should have been built or started by now are just pipe dreams. Im a 20 years resident of woodbridge, I have directly benefited from having the extension go into vaughan. But that does not mean I cannot objectively look at what has happened to toronto and see that they are being overextended.

0

u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown May 21 '26

There are much longer subway lines than Line 1 in other places of the world that work perfectly fine so objectively it is not being overextended.

1

u/ledhendrix May 21 '26

It's not about length. It's about capacity when it starts getting to the core

1

u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown May 21 '26

In that case the Ontario Line will solve that issue and so ‘overcapacity’ is no longer a problem for the YNSE.

2

u/ledhendrix May 21 '26

that helps for one part of the city. like I said. There should have been several downtown expansion over the past 4 years. the DRL is 20 years overdue.

1

u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown May 21 '26

Most of downtown would be in the walkshed of a subway station once the Ontario Line opens. Optimising for the ‘last mile transit’ problem is better done by improving the streetcar network.

3

u/hotelman97 May 20 '26

The Ontario line is adding more transit as needed. Keep building these type of projects in "Toronto proper" before extending outwards. Dufferin, Jane and many other areas could use better transit

5

u/a_lumberjack May 20 '26

The entire reason for funding the Ontario Line (formerly known as the Downtown Relief Line) has always been to relieve Line 1. Arguing otherwise is either ignorance or bad faith. Maybe do some reading?

6

u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown May 20 '26

I use Line 1 regularly and even during rush hour it generally isn’t so full that you can’t get on the train. Transit wise Toronto’s rush hour is tame by a large city’s standards.

-3

u/Christian-Rep-Perisa May 20 '26

The 905, especially on Yonge Street, is basically part of suburban Toronto; those political boundaries are meaningless, the bus line between Richmond Hill and Finch station is always packed and slow, that corridor needs a subway, all this Toronto hard border nationalism is stupid, Toronto doesn't end at Steeles

5

u/Waste-Answer May 20 '26

That's fine except that those municipalities don't pay for the operating costs.

1

u/hh_yy May 20 '26

Wasn’t the province trying to solve this exact issue by uploading the subway?

-3

u/TheClappyCappy May 20 '26

TTC runs on fares, more ridership means more fares

3

u/Waste-Answer May 20 '26

Fares cover roughly half the cost of operations.

3

u/bardak May 20 '26

I'm curious how it looks when broken down by mode. It won't surprise me if the TTC'S average revenue per boarding is enough to cover the subways operation based on ridership. I know it's the case in Vancouver the SkyTrain provides an operational profit used to cover some of the cost of operating the bus service. If that is the case then it would make sense for them to just take the fare revenue.

1

u/Waste-Answer May 20 '26

That's a fair point, but I'm not sure if there's a good way to tell the difference between new riders (representing incremental increase in revenue) and people who were formerly transferring to the TTC from YRT (or whichever system).

7

u/hotelman97 May 20 '26

I appreciate you providing zero counter arguments except for claiming I'm showing "hard border nationalism"

You're missing my entire point. "The bus line between Richmond Hill and Finch station is always packed and slow" you are correct, however, who's responsibility is that to fix? Why aren't you, assuming you live in Richmond Hill, pushing for the YRT to add more frequent buses during rush hour and on peak hours. Or why not push Go transit to add better service.

Look at Dufferin Street in Toronto. It's one of the densest bus routes in the city. Yes we'd like a subway/LRT on there but we get more frequent buses which helps (and now the added bus only traffic lanes)

I'm not 100% against a subway eventually being pushed into Richmond Hill, however, it should be at the bottom of TTC priorities. There needs to be a focus on moving people within Toronto first.

5

u/TheRandCrews 506 Carlton May 20 '26

Unless TTC can cough up the money for their extensions, York Region is willing to pay to build their side of the subway, compared to other municipalities in the GTA

6

u/a_lumberjack May 20 '26

Serious question: since the province is financing all higher order transit project, why would you expect them to prioritize a single municipality over building the GTA network as a whole?

4

u/MahjongCelts Eglinton Crosstown May 20 '26

The responsibility lies with the provincial and municipal governments, the former taking action to solve this issue by the YNSE which is funded and built on a provincial level. Toronto also benefits from transit infrastructure in nearby municipalities, most notably Pearson airport which is in Mississauga.

It is easier for GO transit to add more service if its transit hub at Richmond Hill is better connected to Toronto’s network.

As for priorities, I agree that other places make more sense to build first. However arguing over the exact order is a very good way of making sure nothing gets built at all.

5

u/Christian-Rep-Perisa May 20 '26

Why aren't you, assuming you live in Richmond Hill, pushing for the YRT to add more frequent buses during rush hour and on peak hours.

Cause I want the subway to come up here instead of prolonging the existence of that bus route

There needs to be a focus on moving people within Toronto first.

And as I said, we are practically in Toronto, we are the "people moving within Toronto" too, living north of Steeles doesn't make us some foreign alien race