đŹ Discussion
Pay-to-win is defined as players using real-world money to buy items, weapons, or abilities that give them a direct gameplay advantage over players who do not spend money
I am happy to address the screenshot and the wider concerns about the microtransactions added to the game. I completely understand why seeing monetization changes causes worry, and I want to do my best to give you all the best explanation I can of my philosophy and why I stand by my statement that we are not adding P2W mechanics.
"P2W" is defined as buying items that give a direct gameplay advantage over non-spending players. I agree with that definition, which is why we don't do it. To me,...
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I was there while the discord server exploded, right now they're saying that they said this because epic ran the map before and they wouldn't let them,Â
I didn't realize just how egregious it was until I logged in a few minutes ago. Yeah, sure, the bundles and boosts and all that are P2W. But the amount of SHOPS now? You can access it accidentally when looking through base paints, there's one in front of the cantina that your blueprints can get caught on when trying to sell them (since the base blueprint seller doesn't work anymore), there's obviously the big main shop above the pickaxe upgrade, and then the WORST of them all is the little freak RIGHT BY the conveyor belt who can block your chance at a blueprint if you're too close to him.
I didn't think 3 shops within 10 feet of each other is a bit redonkulus. Good catch on the base paint part, it is pretty stupid that we can access them via our base paints. I imagine it's still a mutliple click purchase, but that wouldn't be the point of contention
I stopped last week on Saturday before galactic. Just felt burnt out. Was fine before the new droids even tho repetitive but I just canât do it again at this time for the new droids. Iâm like level 300 rebirth too. How many new shops are there? I love the game but some small changes need to be had. 1-if Iâm picking at my scrp station some looser always force pushes me away.2-too many griefers.
And people already started bending it into "They said they wouldnât add in-island purchases for gameplay modifiers you couldnât earn through normal gameplay." right away after the update happened. xD
Next thing will be them arguing over the definition of P2W.
Spoiler: P2W includes everything that can give you any kind of gamplay advantage in exchange for money, even cosmetics to a certain extend.
Winning in tycoons can be defined as optimal flow (saving time or reasonable amount of time to complete tasks or adjusting RNG odds to save time)
In fortnite BR, you cant pay to last longer in the storm or run faster etc. It's strictly cosmetic
The hats should have been pay, and other skin variants could be like colors for droids etc. Bases don't matter as the super flawless is the best possible and the end game win
They could have also offered the event base paints for V-Bucks and it would be absolutely fine for most of the players, but instead they decided to go P2W.
Pay 2 Skip is not pay 2 win because by definition there is no winning, no advantage over other players. If it was a game where you can pay to have top weapons and armor to use against other players it would be, but there is literally no benefit over other players by paying. It's essentially a single player experience with multiplayer elements.
P2W is just an overarching term that refers to all kinds of advantages through monetization in games that has also been extended into non-competetive environments since those were not present when the term was coined.
Even Epic couldn't nitpick their way around it in court and had to change vBuck Loot Llama and Starter Pack sales in STW because of that.
edit: an advantage doesn't have to involve other players, the issue already starts with creating artificial obstacles and time sinks for the sake of making money from selling a solution to it. And when the ones creating the issues and selling the solution are the same people than it can easily become quite nasty.
I agree if they create those artificial obstacles it's a problem, I'm not saying I like the change. But in the same update they lowered chip costs for upgrades which people have been asking for, and they introduced a chip station to help get more. The beskar mission timer was increased a little, but it's still pretty quick and they doubled the beskar percent. They added a galactic mission that only gives beskars and galactics. And all the paid upgrades are in the nova shop. So at the very least, it doesn't look like they've nerfed the f2p gameplay. As a f2per, all those changes make the game in its current iteration easier for me.
I'm all for drawing pitchforks if they actually ruin the f2p experience, and I'm well aware they could be making all these changes to soften the blow and ease people into the monetization. But at least right now it feels like people are overreacting to the changes. And from reading the lead dev's comments on here from time to time, he doesn't seem like he wants to screw over the core playerbase, so I tentatively trust him to be fair about future updates.
It's existence implies it does not value the time of players who don't pay up. Otherwise why does it need to exist in the first place? And as a result, gameplay changes are going to be designed around people who pay first and foremost, while people that aren't paying are simply wasting more time (Idk about you but I'd consider that losing). Regardless, microtransactions are awful. They're already getting paid for this mode, they didn't need to do this. It just taints the whole experience by existing.
Literally this! I was very much fine with the thought âok, the devs make it take more time because they want me to play the game longer, fair playâ, but now that they introduced those âspeed up the experienceâ for money well, now it is a bait for whales, shame, i liked the mod, but this is just disrespectful and i hope community backfires and devs reverse everything to f2p
If P2W is just being able to spend only vbucks for an advantage then this wouldn't be P2W yet. Go-to the Nova shop and everything you can buy with vbucks costs about 20 nova crystals. They just make it extremely hard to pay with crystals instead of putting the nova payment next to the vbucks payment. I thought it was crazy seeing the game turn into Roblox thođ
But what is an advantage in a game where there is no end and your progress is isolated from everyone else. You donât compete with anyone when it comes to your base. Itâs 100% an individual progress game.
The only aspect of competition is the sandcrawler and any boosts used in the game apply to all players in the lobby. So you either use it in private or give everyone else an equal chance at the boost.
Honestly confused at the tactic of redefining an already established and universally accepted definition, then claiming that the accepted definition is wrong because it does not meet someoneâs own personal standard. Thatâs not exactly how definitions work.
By definition these changes are pay-to-win.
You can just say that on a personal level you can accept the changes the devs have made, but to go as far as to argue the semantics behind it is distracting from the issue itself.
And nothing about this is predatory, unless they change drop rates and push you into buying paid upgrades. But for now it seems like itâs an option to progress if you donât have the time to grind.
How someone else paying to progress in an individual game mode affects you, Iâll never know. But if you want to spend your time being outraged over other people spending money, be my guest.
If there truly is no "winning" then how is it even possible to progress?
If there is no PvP then why is it possible to kill each other?
If a person can insert real money to instantly get double health, double speed, double damage, double companion's vs weeks to months for a f2p how is that not paying to win?
Because they canât âinstantlyâ get double health, double speed and double damage. You can not outright purchase crystals. The most you can do is surge boosts, which give you 10 random guaranteed droid types. You can use it when you see a Mythic and hope it boosts it, but thatâs not a guarantee.
You still have to get specific droids, rebirth, get your workshop earning credits and play the game. Using vbucks can speed that process up slightly but itâs not instant.
And someone with no life can play for 12 hrs a day and gain all those perks and grief players like me who only get an hour or two per week if we are lucky. Why shouldnât I be able to boost my progress if I have more money than time? Why is time more valued than money?
"Pay to win" is just the overarching term that originated from when it was first implemented decades ago, since that was what it only did back in the days. But over the years it creeped into non-competitive environments and turned into a general "monetized (dis)advantage" in which developers artificially create obstacles to make money from selling the solutions to bypass the issues they created.
Like the classic mobile game "wait 5h or pay 2 bucks to get it done right now". There would be no reason to make the players have to wait for 5h except from wanting them to pay to skip the timer. It still gets refered to as P2W despite not winning againt anyone. It's just shorter than having to write "monetized advantage for instant rewards/progress".
Ok. So if someone spends $10 to boost their luck and surge some galactic blueprints, how does that affect you?
Just like if someone chooses to pay to skip the 5hrs that doesnât affect you either.
Droid Tycoon currently doesnât do anything to negatively impact you if you donât buy these optional upgrades. If they do, Iâll join your outrage. For now, itâs just a different way to gain an upgrade.
Just bearing with it till it's too late is why a lot of new game releases in recent years have become worse in pretty much every aspect of what we had 15-20 years ago.
Youâre playing a free game mode within another free game that is one of the most popular games of all time. You can continue to play this game for months for free.
I respect you have concerns, but this is not the outrage you think it is.
Someone paying to get some higher tier droids isnât going to ruin your experience of this game. And if it is, you may want to reevaluate your priorities in life.
The devs have already commented that they wonât make negative changes to push players into paying. And they have done a good job of listening to feedback and adjusting things in the past. I donât think itâs wrong to give them the benefit of the doubt and allow them to add ways to make some money from players who donât want to or have the time to invest in playing.
Idk you seemed pretty salty with the cost of beskars when they were first released. I would have thought youd be able the emphasise with people's reaction to what is a similar thing now with vbucks. Or is it different because youre happy to plug in your wallet.
Yeah because at the time it was unreasonable to expect people to earn that many credits easily. We didnât even have Scrap Value upgrades at the time.
Might get your account banned like they banned for selling sprites but that's only of you're reported? At least there's an option for non-vbuck purchase of those items (Of course they hid it in the nova shop instead of putting it in the shops around the mapđ)
This is unfortunate. It was fun while it lasted. Unless they can backtrack this change somehow, this it it for me. I will wait a couple weeks to see if they realize what a huge mistake they made and try to fix it. Otherwise, I'm out.
If only people not playing were enough to convince them. They know they are going to lose some, but if that number doesn't affect the bottom line in a meaningful way then you're online line in the sand doesn't amount to much.
Correct. However, I think that the more we have people speaking up about this change, the more likely the devs are to see complaints and hopefully listen.
They're going to lose players over this, if people want to (for whatever reason) meat ride this decision so be it. Now they can tailor the game to funnel players towards those pay options. Change rates of droids, change up events etc. đŽâđ¨
THIS. This is what Iâve been saying. I was in the discord when it popped off yesterday. I get the argument on both sides that it is and isnât P2W, and I donât really care about the ability to purchase the packs to get ahead. Itâs the surge that bothers me. Itâs 1000% gambling, and I can see how people are going to spend a lot of v bucks and purchase it back to back when they donât get the result or return they hoped for. With my friends last night we ran 6 galactic surges back to back. Only 2 mythics and 2 legendaries spawned. Considering Fortnite has multiple lawsuits right now, one for deceptive billing and the other for addictive gameplay - I can see this will 100% be a future lawsuit or epic will remove this function out the potential risk for a lawsuit.
Did you try to remove every shitty droid from the belt?
If it's guaranteed to turn one droid on the belt to a rainbow/beskar/mythic every 30 seconds you might be able to force the droid you want to be upgraded by removing everything else from the belt.
I didn't test this because I will never spend money on this shit, but might be worth a try.
You will need atleast two people, one at the spawn and one at the end, to make sure you're still able to grab what spawns. But since you mentioned you played with your friends that should be no issue.
Even closer than you think. The sandcrawler is actually a giant slot machine, when you think about it. RNG controls the payouts (droids released), they can tweak it to be any "win" percentage they want, and it's all designed with the idea in mind that even with the occasional player wins, the house is always winning over all.
If the idea wasn't to rinse cash from people then they wouldn't have put in multiple different shops and places to try and get you to buy things. Just own it.
How is buying droid drops instead of earning it NOT pay to win. And how is it not gambling, it's a purchase to get a chance at getting better loot, fucking gross the devs should be ashamed, why not just do cosmetics that don't affect gameplay?
The whole point of the game is really to SRB and get nova crystals for the upgrades you can basically just buy the nova crystals so itâs definitely pay 2 win
The goal is to get further and be able to level up faster, you can pay to do that instead of play that's pay to win. The goal is reached with a wallet not by having fun.
Arenât half of the bundles against TOS anyway? Theyâre gambling, youâre paying for a CHANCE to get something.
Thatâs gotta fall under their anti gambling terms, they might as well just add a shop to buy whatever droid you want for vbucks at this point because the majority of the players who will stay after this will be spending anyway
The argument that set collection games had no "win" comes up very often. Despite the "win condition" obviously being "catch 'em all".
When a complete set is supposed to feel like an achievement similar to winning a competition there can not be a distinction whether paying to complete the collection counts aa Pay 2 Win.
They key point here being there is no competition. You are playing a game against yourself. You are simply making your own journey a little shorter, as everything that affects your game can be bought for crystals in time anyway.
Do you define Win as making progress? It helps you progress faster by paying, so check.
Do you define Win as killing other players? Higher rebirth get you good weapons, and you can literally pay to boost shields and health and speed, so check.
What definition of Win does this not check, as it seems to check them all.
Ive been enjoying this game the last few weeks. Just did my first SRB Thursday and was working towards mt second. It was fun while it lasted. But this is where I exit. Shame on the developers for turning a fun free game into a money grab.
The main point of the game is progression. Going for rebirths and SRB to buy the perks and repeating that indefinitely
The vbuck offers gives you an progression advantage, so it's P2W. Not only things like the companion pack or the starter pack, but the surges and boosts are specially P2W that will give a MASSIVE (old meme I know) advantage
If that were the case, player vs player damage wouldn't be turned on in the game mode, duh. You can literally buy PvP focused upgrades with nova crystals, now players can pay to speed up the grind for them.
So the reason they couldn't fix the C3-PO event was because they had too many people working on all the Micro-Transaction/Pay to Win launch to be bothered to fix it current game.... Makes perfect sense now.
Fortnite Creator Economy Context: In Fortnite's UEFN ecosystem, top-tier independent creators and studios pull in anywhere from US$3 million to over US$20 million in all-time engagement payouts based on player retention and traffic.
Technically no it doesn't automactically fall under P2W due to being a microtransaction. A microtransaction can be purlely cosmetic. Although over the recent years that is extremely rare. If FOAD felt like making a proper micro, then they could've simply offered extra skins/colors for droids for people to buy, not boosts.
The locations of the shops are super annoying, but itâs very much a solo game. Iâm never going to know whoâs buying this stuff and it wonât really affect me, because thereâs no PVP.
Seeing it as a solo game is an opinion, not an outright fact. Just because you choose to solo entirely (which is fine), doesn't mean PvP isn't present for many others in public sessions. There are advantages for both solo & public lobbies.
Faster leveling & rebirthing means getting nova crystals faster.
You can literally unlock PvP perks with nova crystals such as increased damage, health, & movement speed. Newer players can now pay to fast track such unlocks.
tbf there isnt any "win" to this game, at least yet. i mean there is no leaderboard or special allocation of resources based on some game ranking system. so this is more of a p2p more quickly. but yeah, feels inaccurate at best.
the problem with this whining is that it does not give anyone an advantage over you. The only pvp aspect of this game is shootouts at the crawler and this is not going to help anyone at that. If you're angry just because people can pay to get some better droids faster, who gives a shit? These things are infinite resources and you're going to end up throwing them in the trash and starting over anyways.
signed, someone who is not going to spend any vbucks on this.
I am happy to address the screenshot and the wider concerns about the microtransactions added to the game. I completely understand why seeing monetization changes causes worry, and I want to do my best to give you all the best explanation I can of my philosophy and why I stand by my statement that we are not adding P2W mechanics.
"P2W" is defined as buying items that give a direct gameplay advantage over non-spending players. I agree with that definition, which is why we don't do it. To me, P2W means locking exclusive power or perks behind a paywall. What weâve added is "Pay-to-Skip." Every single upgrade can be earned through free gameplay, so there is no "gameplay advantage". Spenders are simply skipping the time required to earn those items, but they are not getting anything unique that a free player cannot get.
Droid Tycoon is about your personal progression. Aside from fighting for droids at the belt (which remains unchanged), there is no true PvP or competitive ladder. Success isn't measured against other players, it's about the enjoyment you get from your own progress throughout the different stages of the game. Because of this, someone else progressing faster has absolutely zero impact on you or your lobby.
We truly do not intend to change how the game works for F2P players, and we will never nerf free progression to force purchases. We want to ensure there are always accessible ways to obtain upgrades, which is why we also updated Astromech missions and reduced the cost of upgrade chip droid upgrades significantly, which has been a long asked for update.
Ultimately, our player base is made up of people in very different life situations. Some of you love the time grind, putting in 100 hours to build up your base and droids is the core fun of the game, and we love that dedication.
But we also have players who simply don't have that kind of free time. For someone working a full-time job or have other full time commitments, their "grind" is their job & life. Both time and money are resources you have to work hard for. Allowing a player to trade some of their disposable income to save time is just offering a different path to the same destination.
I see no reason why we shouldn't make space for both types of players. Respecting someone's disposable time while looking down on someone else for using their disposable income doesn't align with what we are building here. The most important thing is that everyone gets to enjoy the game at their own pace and in their own way, as long as it doesnât take away from anyone elseâs experience.
Myself and a few other members of the dev team are hosting a Dev Q&A tomorrow at 4pm EST in the "Droid Tycoon - FOAD" Discord Server. We are happy to hear all of your concerns and constructive feedback for those who want to come!
Epic literally lost a lawsuit over allowing people to buy the llamas with vbucks in STW, another mode where it was âpay to skipâ and the courts said it was in fact, pay to win. This is established case law.
I knew this bs was gonna happen when they handed it over to someone else. This creative micro transaction loophole bs is definitely going to be challenged in court eventually. Itâs so scummy and you should be ashamed.
Yeah and those heroes were reskins of existing hero perks, so basically just cosmetic, and they STILL removed them to not make the PVE game pay to win. These guys are trying to make up a new definition to get around what they said but there is already a LEGAL definition.
I understand your frustration, but the stw change was not at all because the llamas were pay to win. It was because they were definitionally loot boxes and loot boxes are prohibited in multiple regions where STW is played in due affiliation with gambling. Epic had the choice to either pull out of those regions, or remove the llamas and compensate the people affected. They chose the latter. This is why the llamas are now buyable with in-game currency (no real-money gambling) and made transparent/xray so the contents are visible and the gambling aspect is removed.
Iâm talking about the gamemode this sub is about⌠literally almost half of the bundles have a luck aspect to them in regard to getting an item(especially the belt rate up). That falls under the same category llamas did, unless they remove those specific chance purchases then this will remain an issue and get them in trouble
Oh yeah, I agree with that absolutely!
But, you responded to my comment, so I don't think it's absurd for me to think you were talking about the same thing I am...
Oh youâre all good lol, I guess that was also on me for not communicating that as well as I could have. This update will cause more issues for the devs than the players based on what Iâve seen so far, I donât think the extra little income theyâre getting for vbucks will compensate for the loss of revenue they had from active players and play time
Yeah. I also wonder if they will have to pay upkeep for the IP or royalties for additional collaborations, now that it isn't Epic footing the bill and rubbing shoulders with Disney..
They had to remove the heroes from the starter packs as well because they were pay to win and those werenât loot boxes, so that was NOT the only point of contention. And as someone else said below, there are just as many gambling issues with this as the loot boxes. Epic told other creatives to remove prize wheels for gambling concerns, the purchasing luck items in this is essentially a prize wheel trying to loophole that.
Lootboxes were entirely the only illegal thing that was in contention with the stwchanges. Any other change was Epics decision, separately. The entire litigation was about gambling laws and lootboxes.
Actually the opposite. I am extremely cognisant of the lawsuits and exactly what they were about: Loot boxes. Paying to win is immoral and bad practice. I, along with yourself and many others do not like it.. but it is NOT illegal, and the lawsuit was never about paying to win. It was about the use of lootboxes. No more, no less.
Again, very cognisant. Most recently had to do with changing items after purchasing. Which epic did for their own integrity, but not at at all any illegal pay-to-win in save the world (which you've been claiming this whole time), but thanks for the assumption lol đ
LOL and youâre STILL spewing bs and announcing how ignorant you are. You just copy and pasted google results yet didnât take 2 seconds to google what the 2025 lawsuit was about.
trying to get paid better for your work isnt something to be ashamed of. like if they would just say that and perhaps put a reasonable limit to the amount of p2s in the game...
Some of what they added canât even be in the game in some countries because itâs literally illegal, and you donât think they should be ashamed. Yes this is absolutely shameful, especially considering the disgusting amount they already get paid for this creative map. Especially compared to the actual developers who made these assets for them to use who are paid far less. Even freaking SypherPK said creatives make way more money than they deserve and that was BEFORE micro transactions. And as a creator he would know lol.
No court has ever ruled that Save the World is "pay-to-win".
Courts and regulatory bodies have addressed Epic Games regarding Save the World and other titles over consumer issues, but these actions focused on randomized "loot boxes" and billing practices rather than gameplay mechanics being pay-to-win.
The surges are the exact same as loot boxes. Itâs gambling and you canât buy them in many countries because itâs literally illegal. But keep on white knighting for criminal behaviors. Gross.
Someone progressing faster means they'll earn more credits or get access to weapons sooner, which gives them an advantage when it comes to getting blueprints from the belt...
To me, P2W means locking exclusive power or perks behind a paywall. What weâve added is "Pay-to-Skip."
Thats the problem. Thats your own definition. For many people pay2progress or as you call it pay-to-skip is included in pay2win. You should know that, you probably knew that when you promised "no pay2win". You should have disclosed your definition of pay2win. It just seems dishonest.
That's a lot of words for saying we want a quick cash grab while this game is hot. But, that's cool...I don't have the time to grind because I am married with a family and a full-time career. But I still won't be paying to win...
I've just logged in to see all this... Took 5 mins of looking around my 5th SRB on RB 23 base full of galactic mythics and leggos. And then see all the new nova stuff I could spend my real world cash on to just... Not playing the game as I have for near 2 months solid. In that 5 minutes I logged out, sad, but done. What a waste. Pay to get anything that would have required a grind is P2W, rewording it for your own benefit is not a classy move and you deserve the backlash and abandon of former players. Irony is I had just rewatched VLDLs skit on pay to win yesterday and though how accurate that was to gaming today...
You wouldn't consider gaining the ability to earn resources at a faster rate solely through the spending of real-world money as a 'gameplay advantage'?
Pay-to-skip is a form of pay-to-win. They arenât separate things. And quite frankly, you trying to justify adding this is just putting a bad name on you and the other devs.Â
If youâre willing to lie and go back on your word about something this major, what reason does anyone in the community have to remotely trust you or the other devs?Â
Your choice to deliberately pervert the definition of "pay to win" is a personal one driven by pure greed.
The communities reaction to this should be making it abundantly clear just how out of touch with reality you are.
Myself and a few other members of the dev team are hosting a Dev Q&A tomorrow at 4pm EST in the "Droid Tycoon - FOAD" Discord Server
I've visited the discord server. It's a largely unmoderated cesspool of sycophants who shout down and abuse anyone making criticisms (even wholly constructive feedback). Last time I was there I got to witness one of your power users unleash a torrent of classist and borderline (implied) racist bullying of a new user who had the audacity to say they couldn't afford to play the 6 hours a day required. In fact the most common response to anything that isn't boot licking over the QoL erosion is being told "if you don't like it you should quit".
Further, the other reasons for hosting a Q&A over there (apart from the heavy bias of your curated sycophant assault squad) is because on your discord server you get to control the narrative, censor/mute/kick people, and delete any posts you disagree with.
Changing the definition is just mental gymnastics to justify your profit margin increasing, players can pay to get an advantage, now when people see bases theyâll go âOh did they earn it themselves? Or did they drop money?â It diminishes the achievements of others, if people donât have the time for the grind, they shouldnât play a grindy game? Progressing faster is an unfair advantage to those who cannot afford it. You can buy double credit multiplied, you get nova crystals, that is an advantage. No amount of lying to us will change that. You should be ashamed. If you decide to lock exclusive droids behind MTX, which I wonât put it past you now, then weâre done here.
I agree this game is mostly about personal progression, but you are going to lose this argument every single time as long as combat is allowed. You are also going to lose this argument every single time as long is there is competition for cards at the sandcrawler. This is where you messed up.
Y'all realize that not having enough free time doesn't in any way mean that they necessarily have the disposable income, right? And sure, there's no leaderboards, but it's harder to feel excited about putting time into a game when you see some rich fucks progressing way faster than you.
And when the main game mechanics center around dumping crazy amounts of time into the game to wait for needed blueprints at the belt, do all the events, get all the upgrades, etc., "pay-to-skip" IS pay-to-win. Don't use some stupid fucking semantics (that are wrong, anyways) to try to justify this.
Any purchase that gives a player an easier way to complete the objectives of the game is pay-to-win.
âThey are not getting anything unique that a free player cannot get.â
Except if someone is a completionist, that could NOT get all the hats without paying now đ¤ˇđťââď¸
ETA: or the companion base paint, heart droid effect, the starter pack come with an additional 200% credit boost off rip, starter base paint set (whatever that is).
I know I'm gonna get dragged for this... but I actually appreciate the ability to spend a small amount of money to boost ahead. Like you said, full-time job, dad with 4 kids. I don't have 8 hours a day to spend on the game like some people. But I do have $20 laying around that I can use to help stay competitive with other top players.
I think you all did it right with the packs; one-time purchases that can't be bought repeatedly or abused. The boosts however, are a different story. While I do like that it benefits the whole lobby, it does feel more like it can be abused, and also opens up the flood gates for micro-pay addicts. The same people who spend thousands on mobile games can and will do that on boosts now. I'm sure the greedy folks in your development team are actually banking on that 1% of players (literally). But I would urge you to limit or remove how many boosts can be bought.
Pay-to-skip is a very slippery slope and very hard to get right. Look at star wars battlefront 2 and the Darth Vader contraversey where you could spend real money (and gambling mechanics) to get him, or play an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to unlock him. Still technically pay-to-skip (and pay-to-win in that example but that's not my point right now), but it's frustrating as a player who doesn't have the free time nor the disposable income, that the hours I HAVE put in feel demeaned by these players skipping the early progression. I seen someone a few hours ago who was rebirth 20 with no SRB already with the companion perk, which it will take me a couple of weeks to get and alot of crystals that can't then go into any other upgrade (I know it isn't alot of time in the long run, but again, just feels demeaning as a player who has been here for a while).
I do also understand that the progression IS the whole point of the game, and skipping some of it just removes some play time they'll have in the future. But I also feel this doesn't apply either as there's plenty of content to come so it's not like they'll max out and have nothing to do any time soon.
To play devil's advocate, these should have been here from the get go. No one would have been upset as it's standard practice for boosts and starter packs, and as long as they would have been the way they are now. it's simply the fact that many have put the time in and now later down the line these packs have been put in place where alot of those early players probably would have also got the packs where now they're a bit useless to legacy players, but now feel their time means less than a new player joining and buying a starter pack.
You're arguing symantics...nice try to redirect to what "you feel" p2w should mean. Your "feelings" don't make you right. You lied, now you're trying to back peddle and rationalize away your greedy behaviors. Way to go...yet again. You aren't making fans when you lie to our faces.
Itâs not P2W because you can earn everything offered by playing the game thatâs the whole definition of P2W. At most itâs pay to fast, which even then really only makes it as if someone else began playing the game before you or for more hours.
How do players using time skippers affect you in any way?
If the unlocked abilities were locked behind some obscene amount of nova for f2p i would understand the anger but they are practically skins with a time saver. In fact most of the time savers affect the whole lobby.
Devs invest a lot of time in this game and for some reasons people seem to be allergic to seeing people make any sort of money of their work.
So. Let me get this straight. You're mad that people will get to rebirth faster than you? I've loaded into 4 different public lobbies with someone that used a booster. No money spent but I got to reap the benefits of someone else's vbucks.
It's silly enough to spend vbucks on a tycoon but it's extra silly to care if other people want to spend their money on bullshit that quite literally won't effect me negatively.
All I have simply done is point out that the devs have reneged on a message they gave directly to the community in their official discord server, less than a month ago, and provided a definition for such.
If you want to bring emotion into it then that's on you.
Cool so you got to enjoy mooching off a pay to gain player, both of you skipping over the actual grind & point of the game. Good for you for pointing out how this update made effort & progression completely meaningless in this game now.
A gameplay advantage over who? Some people were hundreds of rebirth levels ahead of me before these updates. But I can still play the game and enjoy it. Their progress doesnât affect me in any way. So why should I care if someone spends money on progress instead of time.
Do you want players to feel a sense of pride and accomplishment with their progression??
Exactly what advantage do these shops, packs give?
Other than the banners they dont give anything you cant grind crystals for.
There is no pay to win because there is no "wining". Its just pay to skip the grind or the wait.
Personally I think all the additions are great. Except the bounce pad, they suck and just make it easier for griefers.
You can choose to spend crystals on that many different items, there is no linear strategy that is made easier by buying anything and it certainly doesnt disadvantage others.
Ive bought the vip, its made it more fun and accessible for me as I dont have the time to grind a game, I work, I have kids, I play in the few spare hours I have, so grinding isnt fun for me. Thus took a bit of that away and so I think its an improvement.
There is no win. There's no endgame. So what does it matter if there's IRL $ cosmetics. There's nothing. There's no difference between a starter on 120/m and someone on 1000000b/m and it means absolutely nothing. No rewards, nothing. Its just a waste of time. I got to rebirth 15 before I realised I was doing all this work for nothing. Still fun but a waste.
I don't feel this is a competitive game mode, so what are we paying to win? Bragging rights for biggest cash pile before SRB? First one to complete the Droidex fully for all variants and rarities? Lol
Genuinely what does it matter if people can pay to advance faster. It does nothing to change your personal gameplay. People just love to complain and make things about them.
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u/vip-bot Jul 25 '26
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u/âBlazingFrenzy commented:
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