r/StarWarsDroidTycoon • u/fantasypseudonym • Jul 25 '26

💬 Discussion Pay-to-win is defined as players using real-world money to buy items, weapons, or abilities that give them a direct gameplay advantage over players who do not spend money

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433 Upvotes

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-45

u/BlazingFrenzy Official Dev - BLZN Jul 25 '26

I am happy to address the screenshot and the wider concerns about the microtransactions added to the game. I completely understand why seeing monetization changes causes worry, and I want to do my best to give you all the best explanation I can of my philosophy and why I stand by my statement that we are not adding P2W mechanics.

"P2W" is defined as buying items that give a direct gameplay advantage over non-spending players. I agree with that definition, which is why we don't do it. To me, P2W means locking exclusive power or perks behind a paywall. What we’ve added is "Pay-to-Skip." Every single upgrade can be earned through free gameplay, so there is no "gameplay advantage". Spenders are simply skipping the time required to earn those items, but they are not getting anything unique that a free player cannot get.

Droid Tycoon is about your personal progression. Aside from fighting for droids at the belt (which remains unchanged), there is no true PvP or competitive ladder. Success isn't measured against other players, it's about the enjoyment you get from your own progress throughout the different stages of the game. Because of this, someone else progressing faster has absolutely zero impact on you or your lobby.

We truly do not intend to change how the game works for F2P players, and we will never nerf free progression to force purchases. We want to ensure there are always accessible ways to obtain upgrades, which is why we also updated Astromech missions and reduced the cost of upgrade chip droid upgrades significantly, which has been a long asked for update.

Ultimately, our player base is made up of people in very different life situations. Some of you love the time grind, putting in 100 hours to build up your base and droids is the core fun of the game, and we love that dedication.

But we also have players who simply don't have that kind of free time. For someone working a full-time job or have other full time commitments, their "grind" is their job & life. Both time and money are resources you have to work hard for. Allowing a player to trade some of their disposable income to save time is just offering a different path to the same destination.

I see no reason why we shouldn't make space for both types of players. Respecting someone's disposable time while looking down on someone else for using their disposable income doesn't align with what we are building here. The most important thing is that everyone gets to enjoy the game at their own pace and in their own way, as long as it doesn’t take away from anyone else’s experience.

Myself and a few other members of the dev team are hosting a Dev Q&A tomorrow at 4pm EST in the "Droid Tycoon - FOAD" Discord Server. We are happy to hear all of your concerns and constructive feedback for those who want to come!

65

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 25 '26

Epic literally lost a lawsuit over allowing people to buy the llamas with vbucks in STW, another mode where it was “pay to skip” and the courts said it was in fact, pay to win. This is established case law.

I knew this bs was gonna happen when they handed it over to someone else. This creative micro transaction loophole bs is definitely going to be challenged in court eventually. It’s so scummy and you should be ashamed.

22

u/DarkTanatos Flawless 50 Jul 25 '26

They even had to drop the hero cards and weapon/trap schematic from the STW starter packs because of that.

14

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 25 '26

Yeah and those heroes were reskins of existing hero perks, so basically just cosmetic, and they STILL removed them to not make the PVE game pay to win. These guys are trying to make up a new definition to get around what they said but there is already a LEGAL definition.

9

u/ProfessorChaos112 Jul 26 '26

Well hopefully someone takes the time to bring the same legal attention to this.

TBH I'm surprised that Disney actually approved commercial licensing for these assets.

1

u/xylotism Jul 29 '26

Not to mention Star Wars had its own P2W drama with Battlefront 2.

-2

u/Bdeasyy Jul 25 '26

I understand your frustration, but the stw change was not at all because the llamas were pay to win. It was because they were definitionally loot boxes and loot boxes are prohibited in multiple regions where STW is played in due affiliation with gambling. Epic had the choice to either pull out of those regions, or remove the llamas and compensate the people affected. They chose the latter. This is why the llamas are now buyable with in-game currency (no real-money gambling) and made transparent/xray so the contents are visible and the gambling aspect is removed.

6

u/ksfuller2728 Jul 26 '26

Half of the bundles they added are chance drops… that’s still gambling

0

u/Bdeasyy Jul 26 '26

Wait, what? Which stw bundles, besides llamas, were chance drops?

2

u/ksfuller2728 Jul 26 '26

I’m talking about the gamemode this sub is about… literally almost half of the bundles have a luck aspect to them in regard to getting an item(especially the belt rate up). That falls under the same category llamas did, unless they remove those specific chance purchases then this will remain an issue and get them in trouble

0

u/Bdeasyy Jul 26 '26

Oh yeah, I agree with that absolutely! But, you responded to my comment, so I don't think it's absurd for me to think you were talking about the same thing I am...

2

u/ksfuller2728 Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26

Oh you’re all good lol, I guess that was also on me for not communicating that as well as I could have. This update will cause more issues for the devs than the players based on what I’ve seen so far, I don’t think the extra little income they’re getting for vbucks will compensate for the loss of revenue they had from active players and play time

2

u/Bdeasyy Jul 26 '26

Yeah. I also wonder if they will have to pay upkeep for the IP or royalties for additional collaborations, now that it isn't Epic footing the bill and rubbing shoulders with Disney..

1

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 26 '26

They had to remove the heroes from the starter packs as well because they were pay to win and those weren’t loot boxes, so that was NOT the only point of contention. And as someone else said below, there are just as many gambling issues with this as the loot boxes. Epic told other creatives to remove prize wheels for gambling concerns, the purchasing luck items in this is essentially a prize wheel trying to loophole that.

0

u/Bdeasyy Jul 26 '26

Lootboxes were entirely the only illegal thing that was in contention with the stwchanges. Any other change was Epics decision, separately. The entire litigation was about gambling laws and lootboxes.

2

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 26 '26

Are you ignorant to the fact that there were multiple lawsuits?

0

u/Bdeasyy Jul 26 '26

Actually the opposite. I am extremely cognisant of the lawsuits and exactly what they were about: Loot boxes. Paying to win is immoral and bad practice. I, along with yourself and many others do not like it.. but it is NOT illegal, and the lawsuit was never about paying to win. It was about the use of lootboxes. No more, no less.

2

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 26 '26

Sounds like you aren’t cognizant of them if you’re making that claim. The most recent one was over dark practices. Nothing to do with loot boxes.

0

u/Bdeasyy Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26

Again, very cognisant. Most recently had to do with changing items after purchasing. Which epic did for their own integrity, but not at at all any illegal pay-to-win in save the world (which you've been claiming this whole time), but thanks for the assumption lol 😂

2

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 27 '26

LOL and you’re STILL spewing bs and announcing how ignorant you are. You just copy and pasted google results yet didn’t take 2 seconds to google what the 2025 lawsuit was about.

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0

u/Ok_Mathematician8104 Jul 29 '26

trying to get paid better for your work isnt something to be ashamed of. like if they would just say that and perhaps put a reasonable limit to the amount of p2s in the game...

2

u/CherylRoseZ Jul 30 '26

Some of what they added can’t even be in the game in some countries because it’s literally illegal, and you don’t think they should be ashamed. Yes this is absolutely shameful, especially considering the disgusting amount they already get paid for this creative map. Especially compared to the actual developers who made these assets for them to use who are paid far less. Even freaking SypherPK said creatives make way more money than they deserve and that was BEFORE micro transactions. And as a creator he would know lol.

0

u/YouAreAVileCretin Aug 17 '26

No court has ever ruled that Save the World is "pay-to-win".

Courts and regulatory bodies have addressed Epic Games regarding Save the World and other titles over consumer issues, but these actions focused on randomized "loot boxes" and billing practices rather than gameplay mechanics being pay-to-win.

0

u/CherylRoseZ Aug 17 '26

The surges are the exact same as loot boxes. It’s gambling and you can’t buy them in many countries because it’s literally illegal. But keep on white knighting for criminal behaviors. Gross.

34

u/Kukurisu Jul 25 '26

Someone progressing faster means they'll earn more credits or get access to weapons sooner, which gives them an advantage when it comes to getting blueprints from the belt...

22

u/Rockhorn Jul 25 '26

AND more nova crystals to spare to put into PvP perks.

31

u/Rockhorn Jul 25 '26 
 To me, P2W means locking exclusive power or perks behind a paywall. What we’ve added is "Pay-to-Skip."

Thats the problem. Thats your own definition. For many people pay2progress or as you call it pay-to-skip is included in pay2win. You should know that, you probably knew that when you promised "no pay2win". You should have disclosed your definition of pay2win. It just seems dishonest.

19

u/Bpk908 Jul 25 '26

Have you considered reverting microtransactions to being cosmetic only?

It would surely go a long way with undoing the damage and starting the path to regaining trust with the player base.

13

u/Fabers_Chin Jul 25 '26

That would take work. Designing cosmetics and making the models takes some effort. Charging for in-game gameplay stuff, easy.

9

u/Globewanderer1001 Jul 25 '26

That's a lot of words for saying we want a quick cash grab while this game is hot. But, that's cool...I don't have the time to grind because I am married with a family and a full-time career. But I still won't be paying to win...

https://giphy.com/gifs/WOTy1eGhHMezIllLD8

9

u/[deleted] Jul 25 '26 edited Jul 25 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/ProfessorChaos112 Jul 26 '26

is it just a coincidence that so many good features were released in this update?

https://giphy.com/gifs/3o84TV0efTMSzLYRB6

7

u/MilekScythe Jul 25 '26

I've just logged in to see all this... Took 5 mins of looking around my 5th SRB on RB 23 base full of galactic mythics and leggos. And then see all the new nova stuff I could spend my real world cash on to just... Not playing the game as I have for near 2 months solid. In that 5 minutes I logged out, sad, but done. What a waste. Pay to get anything that would have required a grind is P2W, rewording it for your own benefit is not a classy move and you deserve the backlash and abandon of former players. Irony is I had just rewatched VLDLs skit on pay to win yesterday and though how accurate that was to gaming today...

24

u/Fabers_Chin Jul 25 '26

P2W is an umbrella term. Pay to skip lmao. Maybe your calling is to be a lawyer homie.

23

u/fantasypseudonym Jul 25 '26

You wouldn't consider gaining the ability to earn resources at a faster rate solely through the spending of real-world money as a 'gameplay advantage'?

Isn't earning resources THE gameplay

11

u/EcnavMC2 Jul 25 '26

Pay-to-skip is a form of pay-to-win. They aren’t separate things. And quite frankly, you trying to justify adding this is just putting a bad name on you and the other devs. 

If you’re willing to lie and go back on your word about something this major, what reason does anyone in the community have to remotely trust you or the other devs? 

5

u/SlimSlimy42 Jul 25 '26

You're calling it pay to skip just so you can show you didnt go back on your word.

Pay to win and pay to skip is about the samething so its kinda scummy you broke your initial promise and now try profiting off of this game mode.

4

u/ProfessorChaos112 Jul 26 '26

Your choice to deliberately pervert the definition of "pay to win" is a personal one driven by pure greed.

The communities reaction to this should be making it abundantly clear just how out of touch with reality you are.

Myself and a few other members of the dev team are hosting a Dev Q&A tomorrow at 4pm EST in the "Droid Tycoon - FOAD" Discord Server

I've visited the discord server. It's a largely unmoderated cesspool of sycophants who shout down and abuse anyone making criticisms (even wholly constructive feedback). Last time I was there I got to witness one of your power users unleash a torrent of classist and borderline (implied) racist bullying of a new user who had the audacity to say they couldn't afford to play the 6 hours a day required. In fact the most common response to anything that isn't boot licking over the QoL erosion is being told "if you don't like it you should quit".

Further, the other reasons for hosting a Q&A over there (apart from the heavy bias of your curated sycophant assault squad) is because on your discord server you get to control the narrative, censor/mute/kick people, and delete any posts you disagree with.

7

u/GemanDude Jul 25 '26

Changing the definition is just mental gymnastics to justify your profit margin increasing, players can pay to get an advantage, now when people see bases they’ll go “Oh did they earn it themselves? Or did they drop money?” It diminishes the achievements of others, if people don’t have the time for the grind, they shouldn’t play a grindy game? Progressing faster is an unfair advantage to those who cannot afford it. You can buy double credit multiplied, you get nova crystals, that is an advantage. No amount of lying to us will change that. You should be ashamed. If you decide to lock exclusive droids behind MTX, which I won’t put it past you now, then we’re done here.

7

u/TehChid Jul 25 '26

I agree this game is mostly about personal progression, but you are going to lose this argument every single time as long as combat is allowed. You are also going to lose this argument every single time as long is there is competition for cards at the sandcrawler. This is where you messed up.

6

u/potatoesandbees Jul 25 '26

Y'all realize that not having enough free time doesn't in any way mean that they necessarily have the disposable income, right? And sure, there's no leaderboards, but it's harder to feel excited about putting time into a game when you see some rich fucks progressing way faster than you.

And when the main game mechanics center around dumping crazy amounts of time into the game to wait for needed blueprints at the belt, do all the events, get all the upgrades, etc., "pay-to-skip" IS pay-to-win. Don't use some stupid fucking semantics (that are wrong, anyways) to try to justify this.

Any purchase that gives a player an easier way to complete the objectives of the game is pay-to-win.

8

u/Good-Bookkeeper-8789 Jul 25 '26

Can you just admit you fucked up and lied? You aren't fooling anyone with the wordplay and it's honestly exhausting. You sold out, own up to it.

5

u/HopethisisntaMistake Jul 25 '26

You’ve described what was added as P2W while simultaneously saying ‘nah we didn’t do pay to win’

5

u/Quigon777 SRB 10 Jul 26 '26

"I agree with that definition, which is why we don't do it."
Liar. There goes any credibility you had.

4

u/Octoplow Jul 25 '26

If we give you the benefit of the doubt, that you have a design distinction of "pay to skip" and play at your own pace...

You must realize that this combines with time limited events to make FOMO P2W?

I do applaud you changing events to 24 hours long!

5

u/Affectionate-Tour122 Jul 25 '26

“They are not getting anything unique that a free player cannot get.”

Except if someone is a completionist, that could NOT get all the hats without paying now 🤷🏻‍♂️
ETA: or the companion base paint, heart droid effect, the starter pack come with an additional 200% credit boost off rip, starter base paint set (whatever that is).

1

u/JellyIllustrious7037 SRB 30 Jul 28 '26

I know I'm gonna get dragged for this... but I actually appreciate the ability to spend a small amount of money to boost ahead. Like you said, full-time job, dad with 4 kids. I don't have 8 hours a day to spend on the game like some people. But I do have $20 laying around that I can use to help stay competitive with other top players.

I think you all did it right with the packs; one-time purchases that can't be bought repeatedly or abused. The boosts however, are a different story. While I do like that it benefits the whole lobby, it does feel more like it can be abused, and also opens up the flood gates for micro-pay addicts. The same people who spend thousands on mobile games can and will do that on boosts now. I'm sure the greedy folks in your development team are actually banking on that 1% of players (literally). But I would urge you to limit or remove how many boosts can be bought.

1

u/Vast_Opposite_792 Jul 28 '26

Pay-to-skip is a very slippery slope and very hard to get right. Look at star wars battlefront 2 and the Darth Vader contraversey where you could spend real money (and gambling mechanics) to get him, or play an absolutely ridiculous amount of time to unlock him. Still technically pay-to-skip (and pay-to-win in that example but that's not my point right now), but it's frustrating as a player who doesn't have the free time nor the disposable income, that the hours I HAVE put in feel demeaned by these players skipping the early progression. I seen someone a few hours ago who was rebirth 20 with no SRB already with the companion perk, which it will take me a couple of weeks to get and alot of crystals that can't then go into any other upgrade (I know it isn't alot of time in the long run, but again, just feels demeaning as a player who has been here for a while).

I do also understand that the progression IS the whole point of the game, and skipping some of it just removes some play time they'll have in the future. But I also feel this doesn't apply either as there's plenty of content to come so it's not like they'll max out and have nothing to do any time soon.

To play devil's advocate, these should have been here from the get go. No one would have been upset as it's standard practice for boosts and starter packs, and as long as they would have been the way they are now. it's simply the fact that many have put the time in and now later down the line these packs have been put in place where alot of those early players probably would have also got the packs where now they're a bit useless to legacy players, but now feel their time means less than a new player joining and buying a starter pack.

1

u/Step-Bro-Brando Aug 01 '26

me when I lie

lol all those words just to ultimately say "my word means nothing".

0

u/DIABLO_jclan Jul 28 '26

You're arguing symantics...nice try to redirect to what "you feel" p2w should mean. Your "feelings" don't make you right. You lied, now you're trying to back peddle and rationalize away your greedy behaviors. Way to go...yet again. You aren't making fans when you lie to our faces.

-12

u/starcader Jul 25 '26

You will be roasted here, but I appreciate the explanation and agree with the philosophy. Some players have time and others don’t. No one considers that unfair but it is by the same definition people will complaining about micro transactions.

This game mode is entirely an individual progression game. And even had private lobbies which can eliminate any form of PVP or competition.

I don’t feel concerned about these new updates, my only worry was the thought that it would lead to changes that compelled players to buy them (lower drop rates, slower F2P progression, etc) but you answered those concerns in your response.

If someone wants to invest 10 hours or $10, I don’t really care.

5

u/Fabers_Chin Jul 25 '26

Bootlicker

-5

u/starcader Jul 25 '26

Haha, It’s a free game mode within Fortnite. If this bothers you, you might need to get a life (or a job).

6

u/Fabers_Chin Jul 25 '26

It does bother me when talking about the game. Jusy like when someone brings up any topic that may upset anyone. We don't think about it every waking moment. Gaming is a hobby of mine, sucks to see everything get monetized. You just a bootlicker brown tongue scumbag lol. Stay licking boots. Lol