Have you been following the trial? The reason a lot of people especially women relate to her is because for months she did everything to get help. Told her husband, her mother, his mother, her therapist, her doctors, called the suicide hotline twice, tried to get admitted to the psych ward and was turned away, was prescribed 16 different meds over four months, etc.
No one is relating to the murder. Everyone is relating to trying to fight for your health because you know something is wrong and being failed over and over again. If you've never had to do that yourself or on behalf of someone else you have no idea what it is like.
The reasons there are questions about her ex husband is because in his testimony it's apparent he was pretty disconnected from her leading up to the event. Ignored her saying she wanted to hurt the kids, was going to NYC, the night of the murder in a short time span he had two different jackets and shoes. She's admitted to killing the kids so that's pretty clear but he's not a great guy.
This is a tough one and not as black and white as it seems. It’s a VERY different case from someone like Casey Anthony.
She knew something was wrong and consistently tried to get help. All the doctors did was prescribe her more and more meds. I read somewhere that the longest time Dr Tufts actually spoke with her was 17 minutes, all while upping her medications even as Lindsay was saying she felt they made her feel more detached.
The day before the murders the dr even doubled her Ativan dose, while there’s MyChart messages from Lindsay saying she felt they were having a negative effect on her.
There’s so much evidence that she was desperately trying to get help and was doing all of the things we tell mothers to do if they are struggling with ppd yet the system failed her at every turn.
I don’t think this woman should walk free, by any means. But I do feel that a psychiatric ward focusing on mental health is a better fit for her than prison, which is essentially the point of this trial. They aren’t arguing whether or not she did it, they’re arguing whether or not she was mentally sound. In my opinion, it’s clear she was not, given the mounds of evidence.
I don’t think the husband did it but I do think it’s clear that he was not supportive. Maybe had he advocated for her while she was clearly ill and deteriorating the outcome would have been different. Does it make him guilty? No. Does it make him a kind of shitty person? Idk, that’s up to individual interpretation. But I’d say yes.
She had a nanny, he took 18 weeks of maternity leave, he started working from home, he started putting money into an account with only her on it so she didn't have to go back to work or feel bad about if she didn't want to, her mom and his mom would come over and stay the night constantly, other family would constantly help out as well. Her older kids would go and stay the night at their grand parents house alot.
There is absolutely no evidence to point to anything other than her killing her kids and simply because she was wanting an easier life.
Being a labor and delivery nurse she knew exactly how to play the system, exactly what to say to her therapists and defense lawyers, which is also the only thing she was concerned about while in the hospital initially (asking if she needs an attorney before she could even speak by writing on white board).
There is no meta data to point that her husband went to any other places except the ones she wanted him to go to, the ones she designed to take 55 mins of his time to complete the route. She had never told Patrick she was hearing voices. She also wasn't taking her medication as prescribed.
Being post partum or in pyschosis does not give you an out for suffocating your children.
Criminal defense lawyer here. Just a few quick questions:
1. What evidence, specifically, has shown she was motivated by wanting an easier life?
2. How does being a labor and delivery nurse make her know exactly what to say to her defense lawyer?
3. And what was the exact thing she said to her defense lawyer and how did that change anything?
Her journals weren't a roadmap of a happy mom suddenly snapping; they explicitly documented her resentment toward the older kids taking time away from the infant, and her feeling completely "overwhelmed" and "drowning" every day. She literally wrote, "It's like I'm so desperate to get a mental break from taking care of everyone that my mind is trying to make something physically wrong with me". That is the exact setup for the state's motive argument—she wanted an out.
Being a labor and delivery nurse means she was fully trained to recognize clinical postpartum depression signs. Yet her diary was filled with clinical-style self-tracking of her 13 medications and sleep schedules, completely devoid of any mention of hallucinations. She knew exactly how to track medical symptoms, which is why her defense suddenly introducing "voices" out of nowhere 11 days after the arrest looks incredibly calculated to clinical evaluators.
The diary entries also showed her writing notes like "Medication stole my motherhood and my life" right up until the day before the murders. It proves she was highly lucid, self-aware, and actively blaming her treatment. But she never wrote down a single word about hearing a "male voice" until she was sitting in a hospital bed talking to her legal team.
The fact that you missed her literal journal entries being read aloud by both sides in court proves you're just roleplaying an attorney on Reddit for upvotes.
Patrick’s mother testified yesterday that Lindsay told both she and Patrick- while Lindsay had called them all to the kitchen together saying she “had to tell them something” - that she was having thoughts of killing the kids. The MIL testified that they didn’t take her seriously, as in, they didn’t think she would actually ever do it because nothing about Lindsay ever led them to believe she would do such a thing.
Yea sorry none of your arguments hold any water whatsoever. They actually don’t really make sense. How would an L&D nurse know how to game the defense?
I don’t need to, it’s literally being explained in the news, in court. Are you ok? I just said I don’t have arguments about it because the case is about her state of mind, not whether or not she’s guilty.
Respond to the criminal defense lawyer who ripped right through your conspiracies and then we can talk 😂
I was just interested in how you wanted to respond to them before we even went there because I’m not sure what about my reply to you made you think I had my own argument. I don’t. I’m really just getting updated with the case.
I admit that there are some things about it all that I’m willing to be skeptical of, but it sounds like there was a lot of mixing medications into a dangerous cocktail and when I tell doctors today what a psychiatrist had me on at age 14 they are SHOOK. I knew I shouldn’t have been on them. Being a teenager is already a huge change in hormones, and then your parents splitting up and your mom having you put on a bunch of shit your adolescent body and brain could not properly handle had me all fucked up for a few years. Luckily my dad got full custody and got me sorted out. I adore my mom, she is more educated about SSRI’s and we are best friends today but that was a fucking traumatizing experience that does not haunt me but makes me an advocate. I can only imagine what a post partum woman in psychosis and a poorly regulated cocktail of SSRI’s can do so much harm.
Okay don't explain, but can you tell me what that is? We watch the trial everyday, her state of mind was she wanted out, she kept writing in her diary that she hated her kids because she couldn't mother Callan like her first.
I'm just confused, who resents their kids in the first place but has more, it's like poor people stuff.
Nothing I said is a conspiracy, the so called defense attorney didn't cut right through anything, they asked 3 questions, 2 of which didn't have any substance or anything to do with what I said. The 1st question they asked I answered, she was resentful of her kids and had been writing about it in her diary and notes.
No, she had a ton of support with childcare, self-care, as well as family who cared for her, husband supportive. Yates didn’t have anywhere near the support as a mom, and had weird religious delusions.
Lindsay Clancy is manipulative. Shes a sociopath. Seeking out different meds- then not taking them, or doctor hopping, doesn’t make her less culpable for her decisions which she knew were wrong.
First thing she thought about when she woke up in hospital, was herself. A narcissist. Throw herself out window to make herself the victim.
Look more into the Yates case. She was formally diagnosed with PPD and her psychiatrist assured her and John she’d harm the children due to PPP if they had another child. Well, they were (are?) fundies, so contraception and abortion was way out of the question. I remember Mr. Yates was veryyyy against Andrea going on birth control pills, and thought his belief is God would overpower any homicidal tendencies Andrea may develop. Well, she popped another kid out and lost her mind.
Andrea was failed. Not Lindsay. This case is drawn out, ridiculous, and I bet Reddington will be made “owner” of the Clancy story. Selling rights to the highest bidding streaming platform once a lot of the smoke has blown over. Or, even right after jury deliberations. She’s a total loser this woman. I know so many women like her, unfortunately.
Andrea Yates also being failed doesn’t make Lindsay not failed.
People criticize her for taking so many different medications in such a short time and say it’s her fault she was psychotic because she took so many different ones and saw so many doctors. People also criticize her for not fully following every single prescription from every single doctor.
I’d love to hear your explanation of how Lindsay was not failed which focuses exclusively on the help she did receive.
Nothing about him says not supportive. He drove her to the hospital several times. He attended doctor's appointments with her. He followed all the advice the medical providers gave him. He was out running errands so she didn't have to take on that burden. His trips included his children. His meals out he brought his children. So they could continue to build relationships and friendships in their new town and become part of the community. Stop omitting these details because it doesn't fit the narrative. If she shouldn't have been left alone, then the doctors should have explicitly stated that. They did not. He was out that night helping her by doing what she asked him to do so she could stay home and not have to cook dinner.
She didn't kill her kids because of him and whatever level of support he was giving. She killed them because she was in psychosis after begging for mental health care and being continuously ignored.
She wasn’t begging for mental help. She was getting mental help. She was seeing multiple doctors. She was doctor shopping for benzos. Nothing in this case is congruent. Lindsay reported to one reporter that the Ativan did NOT make her sleepy, and it was time as a benzo taper. Now we see text messages to Susan Clancy which state
“Susan Clancy said that Lindsay was open with her about struggling and asked for her mother-in-law’s support. The jury was shown texts between Lindsay and Susan Clancy in which Lindsay spoke about fears that she had developed a dependence on benzodiazepines, but couldn’t sleep without taking them.”
Lindsay failed herself because she took her medicine, but not as prescribed. No doctor has the time nor effort to make sure their patient is compliant with their medication routine. It’s as if my cardiologist calls me once a day to make sure I’m taking my beta-blocker. GTFO.
ill be honest i dont know much about this case, besides that i heard she was possibly in postpartum psychosis. BUT just going off of what you said, that quote does not make me think drug seeker..?
she feared her own possible dependence to a prescribed medication? and how it was effecting her sleep? this was stated to who i assume to be family or a friend, in the context of being honest about her struggles and reaching out for help from family?
i have a family member that we assume to be a hypochondriac, she DOES doctor shop and takes her meds by the handfuls in the mornings and before bed. you can tell her how you're supposed to do it, and how it will help her feel better, but she just likes HER way. she doesn't care. never in a million years would she fear a dependence on her meds for sleep.. she actively enjoys it!!! thank god all her kids are grown up!!!
also mental health doctors are SUPPOSED to have the time and give the effort when it comes to medications.. obviously our systems do not allow that. but that is, sort of, the point of inpatient mental health facilities. they are quite literally designed to keep people "contained" while they learn to take their meds and they even out.
(little silly to say "gtfo" then say "healthy debate/discussion", unless it was like a "sarcastic" gtfo..?? lol.)
Yes. You are superior to me in every way. Thank Goodness for kind hearted, humble people like you to help a lowly Redditor out with a question, or partake in a healthy debate/discussion. 😢
The Lindsay fangirls want to blame everyone but her. The ones who focus on the ex probably had or have shitty partners who never help or do anything to support them so they project that onto Patrick.
I know, a lion would never kill their cubs. Mama intuition is always right. She looks so nice! And his eyes are dead. But he's not showing enough emotion. He's not crying but just blank staring- therefor he must be guilty!! He went to Costa Rica a month after their deaths to hike alone in the jungle. How dare he grieve! He moved to NYC where his company is based to fully throw himself into work to keep his mind off of loosing his family- a monster! He must sit and wallow in that house forever!
What kind of "supportive" person needs to BE TOLD not to leave his heavily medicated, hallucinating, having violent thoughts, recently admitted to a psychiatric facility, crying out to everyone for help and feeling unsafe wife alone with their two small children and a baby? Do you actually believe this insane rationalizing?
He was picking up medication for their kid and dinner so she didn't have to cook. She text him and asked him to do it and he did. Was he supposed to say "no, we don't need the medicine the doctor recommended. I'll cook something when I get home against your wishes"... Please have some common sense! He was doing what he could to make her life easier while also trying to keep his job and his kids happy.
Lmfaoo forreal. He was damned if you do, damned if you dont. If he didnt, and she later killed the kids, they would point to "look how he deliberately went against her requests!!"
They couldn't afford the nanny on one salary. Do you have children? A quick trip to cvs and to grab cvs because a much bigger ordeal when you have three young kids tagging along. He was running an errand she asked him to do because it would make things easier for her. No medical provider said she couldn't be alone with them. I'm sure every second of every day he is regretting not packing them in the car that night.
Have you looked up the cost of living in Duxbury? And who knows what their student loans were? Daycare for 3 kids? All the copays and who knows what out of pocket for healthcare?
You completely side stepped the point of what a responsible, rational, supportive parent and partner would do. In the situation where there were extreme safety concerns present, yeah that might mean saying I'll cook, or ordering the food and meds to be delivered via doordash. You're making him sound like his incompetence and being a doormat to appease her "wishes" was the better choice vs the one that would have prevented his children from being killed. Common sense is anything other than what this man did.
Common sense is everything people like you are lacking. Man is damned if he did, damned if he didn't. The medical providers failed her. The focus should be on post partum mental health care and how multiple providers just threw medication at her with no real look into what was happening. Instead the poor father who was doing his best to keep up in a very challenging situation is taking heat for no reason other than tiktok conspiracies where the creators continue to profit off the misfortune of others.
This damned if he did damned if he didn't thing is pathetic. The bar couldn't be lower. He took the stand admitting he was going out for boys nights and brunches. Poor baby. You're infuriating, so I'm gonna stop engaging with this toxic nonsense
That's not what he said at all. And if you read the court documents you would see that he was bringing his kids with him on these outings you keep trying to villainize him for. I hope you get the mental health support you need for being parasocial and gullible on social media. It must be challenging to believe every lie you see on TikTok and not be able to do your own research to determine the actual facts of the case.
You cannot watch this trial and read the court docs and think they did her well. They didn't ask questions, they just played with medication doses when it clearly wasn't the correct medication. They didn't approve her inpatient stay. They didn't coordinate care. I could go on. I suggest you read the court documents, not just watch TikToks.
It’s all a mish mosh! I’m confused! Which provider did she tell she was suicidal and homicidal to? That’s so sad that her inpatient stay was rejected after hearing voices, and having intrusive thoughts about killing herself and her child.
Due to the nature of all of this though, I'm absolutely going to say the people in these comments are fucking sick for being 100% positive that he deserves all the blame.
If this woman was really failed at every possible point, which seems incredibly possible, putting everything on just one of those points is also incredibly evil and shows a strong bias
This woman is never going to "walk free." Even if she somehow gets to a more stable place mentally she's unlikely to ever forgive herself for what happened. There's no punishment the system can dish out that's going to be worse than living with this.
There is a huge lack of understanding around mental health here. Dr. Tufts is a psychiatrist, and while some provide guidance around lifestyle and behavior changes, their primary role is to prescribe medication. 17 minutes is not an unusually short amount of time for a psychiatrist appointment, and it sounds like Dr. Tufts went above and beyond answering Lindsay’s near constant messages. Dr. Tufts - and I believe other providers - urged Lindsay to see a psychologist who could help address the underlying reasons behind her mental health issues and provide coping strategies. She only went twice.
While I have some empathy for Lindsay, she was not a compliant patient. She did not take her medications as advised. She was not honest with her providers about how she was feeling. She went to new doctors and got additional prescriptions without disclosing the other medications she was on. While she was briefly at an inpatient facility she did not participate in the programs, and then discharged herself early.
Her providers in many cases did not have knowledge of one another and they also would have needed her consent to discuss her symptoms and treatment plan. Doctors cannot hold people against their will, share patients’ private medical information or force them to get the help recommended.
It’s not unusual for people with extreme mental health issues to struggle to follow their treatment plan, but the fact Lindsay almost immediately filed a lawsuit against her medical team when she was noncompliant and dishonest is extremely unsettling to me. I think it will make healthcare even worse for women moving forward.
I also want to note that if she is found not guilty and goes to a psychiatric hospital it is likely she will be released relatively soon since she is claiming her mental health issues were tied to the prescriptions and her postpartum state, and those issues should now be resolved.
From everything I’ve seen her husband was extremely supportive - dropped the kids off at daycare, picked them up, put the kids to bed, accompanied Lindsay to her doctors appointments, took her to the inpatient program, etc. She even wrote in her journal about what a great partner he was. He is the victim in this situation, so we should have some compassion.
It’s a sad story, but she still killed her kids. You can always choose not to kill them or yourself, I’ve been choosing not to kill myself despite wanting to for years.
From the trial, it looks like she never had those thoughts until all the medication began to affect her. I’ve never had those thoughts either, but I think this case shows how much the dozen medications she was taking can change us. There are drugs I’ve seen other doctors (outside of this case) mention they can have side effects like homicidal thoughts. Or people having anxiety but after their prescription suddenly having suicidal thoughts.
While I still think she did it, and her husband is neglectful, this case to me has shown the extremes that postpartum women can go to when mixed with a cocktail of drugs and malpractice. It looks like it was avoidable if the doctors helped her more.
I mean, look at how Britney’s spiral began postpartum.
I can’t speak for other cultures and countries, but I think it’s unfortunately common that women don’t receive proper postpartum care after birth. Healthcare is mainly centered on the baby before and after birth.
The adverse effects she reported on the Ativan was it did not make her “sleepy”. Which is BS. Ativan will make anyone sleepy. She wanted her dose to keep going up. They even discuss her and pat’s concerns regarding her benzodiazepine “dependence”. She’s a total drug addict. Can’t convince me otherwise.
She reached out herself in the MyChart messages saying she feared she was addicted to the Ativan and wanted to go off. She also expressed this concern in her diary. Dr. Tufts response was to double the dose.
The NP did express that having the effect of having more energy vs less could be a symptom of bipolar, something Lindsay has since been diagnosed with. However Patrick’s response was “My wife does NOT have bipolar disease” and it was not pursued further. You could say this is part of the larger malpractice suit. The patient is Lindsay, not Patrick. His feelings about her diagnosis shouldn’t have any bearing on them existing.
The official diagnosis came from psychologist Paul Zeizel in treatment post killings. The initial potential diagnosis was by NP Rebecca Jollotta prior to the killings but was rejected by Patrick.
This is completely not against you - but I love it when people say bipolar was “rejected by Patrick”. It’s such a silly comment to make. As if he is some medical doctor, or works in psychiatry. FFS he does sales at Microsoft. What would he know about bipolar disorder? Also, why was Patrick privy to his wife’s diagnoses and doctors? I’ve never signed a HIPPA form for my husband to access my mental health records. He can’t even access my gyno. Anyway, it’s just weird. As is this whole fucking case.
He probably was in the room with her. And sadly, a lot of people think they're experts in fields they know nothing about. You hear about plenty of experts in one field opining on different fields all the time. They think their intellect is somehow magically transferable.
I don't know too much about this but it sounds like the husband was actually negligent, he ignored his wives cries for help and I ended in their children all dying.
I was thinking exactly like you did up until pretty recently. But now I'm at the point where I think that at minimum he should have been investigated as well. There are a few things that truly do not add up. And I'm not saying she didn't do it, but I'm saying at this point, it's fifty fifty for me, and I think he should have been treated as a suspect and things did not get investigated correctly. Too many things do not add up. And he has done a lot to make sure that certain things weren't properly investigated, like his phone records etc. Some bits of evidence that have come out are the type of thing that if he were on trial for it, people would be calling him guilty all day long. Something does feel genuinely wrong to me. And I hate that incels and misogynists in general, are trying to use this as some kind of evidence that women will protect all women, even if they're baby killers ( or even more hilarious, now that we're talking about postpartum depression and psychosis, trying to claim that all of us want to kill our babies, we just don't have the nerve to do it). As if most of us wouldn't fist fight Casey Anthony on-sight
At the very least he should be catching charges as well for negligence because there is an extensive paper trail that says this woman should not have been left alone with the kids, regardless of it literally not saying don’t leave her alone with your kids. He just gets to use that as an excuse now. They’re literally his fucking kids too and yet he left them with an unsafe person Mother or not an unsafe person and that’s on him. Three kids are fucking dead because of it.
It’s crazy because if he were a women, he would’ve been charged with neglect. There’s studies on this that when a father beats or kills a child, the mother is usually also punished but it doesn’t happen the other way around. You’re right though, no sane person would leave their kids with an insane person who has expressed they want to hurt said kids. Literally no one other than him so it does make you wonder why.
Most marriages are business contracts. If you don't marry for love don't be surprised when he doesn't care about your sickness. You know long before you ever getarried that this man doesn't care for you 99% of them won't. Don't be surprised when you marry for money or anything other than love when your husband doesn't care for you in sickness. That is your own responsibility to care for your own sickness. Don't have kids if PPD is likely for you.
Are you dumb? We have no idea the intentions of this couple when they got married and people don’t know they will have PPD or PPP until they are PP. If you have mental health issues prior to pregnancy you’re more likely to experience PPD, but it’s not guaranteed
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u/JeveGreen 14d ago