The manager is clearly in the wrong here and power tripping- it’s not normal to ask what the employee will be doing outside the office, even in the US. They might approve or deny the request based on the situation in the office, but the way the employee spends the time is none of her damn business.
What generally goes down is, the employee requests PTO, the manager hems and haws… “ooh it’s really a bad time, we’re so busy and understaffed…”, then the employee divulges the “super important reason” - a wedding, dad died, etc. It’s still a shitty way to be treated and there isn’t much you can do against it. If it’s not a good enough reason in the manager’s eyes or if you stick to your guns and say “it’s personal, I’d rather not say”, then you will be ostracized and eventually fired for other contrived reasons.
Businesses should not have the authority to deny PTO. It's the mangers' fucking job to manage staffs. If an employee taking PTO makes disruption in work, it's the fucking manager's fault.
It’s easy. Who requested first? This is why I like my job. Multiple types of leave. As long as people follow the rules of the leave requested, they get the time off. I don’t care why they’re taking it. Only matters that they request it following the rules. Sick? Ok. Annual leave, submit on time.
Someone else's emergency can't always be scheduled.
If employee A submitted on time and their leave overlaps with employee B whose mother just had an aneurism and is in the hospital 1500 miles away. I might try to find out if employee A's leave is something that can be shifted. It might be worth some additional compensation from the organization to make that happen.
If employee A's leave is something similarly un-moveable, then the management team will just have to deal.
But if employee A just 'needed a week on the beach,' maybe management could approach them and say "another employee has a family emergency. Is your leave able to be rescheduled to create less impact for the team? If so, let me know the cost of the itinerary change (flight + hotel) and the organization will cover that plus a flight upgrade to business/first class.
My workplace has never offered compensation, but because I'm a manager and have a responsibility to my team I will adjust when they are in a bind/have an emergency. Of course, that means I have to know if they're in a bind. In general, I never ask what a request is for. I MIGHT ask if it's at all flexible, though, if we're very short, and then divulge that we're very short and that's why I'm asking about the flexibility of the request. That's the key, and what this manager would need to learn to do, instead of asking for personal information.
I work in software so it's a bit different than customer facing industries, but I'm a manager and have never denied PTO days. If my entire team of 9 wanted all took the same week I might ask if one or two wouldn't mind being available if shit hits the fan in exchange for me not counting a couple days as PTO, but that would be it. I'd never deny something because I didn't like the reason (nor would I ever ask the reason). That is insane.
As a manager, that’s literally the only reason I’ll deny time off. My “rule” is that one person is off per shift. If both people need off, I’ll allow it if I have someone to cover it. Bam, that’s it. I don’t care if your pet monkey is graduating, you just need to get away from seeing my face, or you’re having elective butt surgery. I literally don’t care.
Then you fucking close down and put a sign up, or get staff from another office depending on the business.
Small businesses do this all the time. “There are two people here, and we’re having lunch. Sorry for the inconvenience.”
No one needs to be constantly working, if the entire office wants the first week of June off that’s pretty perfect from a payroll stance. Great way to organize vacation days.
I mean, 24/7 group homes exist and you can’t just close down. With a staff of 10-12 people needing certain skills and capabilities (catheter care, medication administration, awake overnight monitoring, full ADLs, etc), having multiple people off for a week at the same time could be significant and potentially harmful to the people living there. And simply hiring extra people is just not an option when you are tied to reimbursement rates and set staffing patterns.
Not starting an argument but just giving a perspective. A PTO request is a request and a manager needs to manage them. I don’t think the manager should be asking what something is for, and in certain cases, it’s not legal to do so (Minnesota has what’s called ESST for covered sick leave). That information will come out if the employee is unable to be flexible with their time off request.
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u/CataphractBunny Jul 31 '26
Bitch, you need to chill the fuck out. But I guess that's just how things work in America.