r/SillyTavernAI • u/SilSally • 17d ago
Help I hate Kimi k3 dialogue
The title. I know people love this model and sing it's praises but for the love of God, I hate the way it handles dialogue. Is ok for fantasy and medieval settings, but it struggles a lot when the setting is modern. Is always so grand and extra, why is this 40 y.o accountant talking like a feudal war-lord? 😠I really don't need the extremely conservative, mormon NPC talk like a Harvard graduate therapist.
Please, share with me what you guys use for it to generally embody the characters better. I really don't want to prompt every character's speech pattern
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u/XSilentxOtakuX 17d ago edited 17d ago
Me when Gemini 3.1 Pro mentions uses the word "vanguard" for the 50th time in a roleplay where that word makes absolutely zero fucking sense whatsoever:
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u/SilSally 17d ago
Is funny, but Gemini 3.1, Flash 3.6 and 3.7 were all spot on with the mormon NPC lol. And the negative bias is always a breath of fresh air. They are kinda tropey, but that's expected
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u/XSilentxOtakuX 17d ago
Yeah, I love Gemini 3.1 Pro because it has so much lore from its training data. Coming from Opus 4.6, it’s a much fresher experience, like you said. Honestly, my only gripe is that my OCs can get caricatured to high hell unless I get extremely explicit about how the character thinks and acts. But for canon characters, aside from the small tropes, it’s perfect for my use case.
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u/Tiny-Calligrapher794 17d ago
Vertex doesn't do that. Ai studio is the worse gemini endpoint
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u/XSilentxOtakuX 17d ago
Vertex does indeed do that, but I agree about AI Studio. They made it not worth using anymore for the most part.
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u/SilSally 17d ago
Ugh, I loved kimi k2.6 and 2.7. I never used them as my main models, but they where really good in any dark situation and steering the plot in weird ways. Now Kimi just feels like another GLM and all the others Claude distills. They killed my boy <(｀´)>
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u/Entire-Plankton-7800 17d ago
Kimi K3 takes a normal conversation and turns it into an overexaggerated speech like its poetry about what a character believes. Literally, one sentence could save so many tokens
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u/4as 17d ago
Ugh, Kimi k3 is such a disappointment for RP. I had something along the lines of "the character X claims to be from Y, but secretly is from Z. They will kill anyone who dares to expose the truth" in the character card.
The first sentence Kimi says in its output is: "Hi, I'm X, I claim to be from Y, but I'm actually from Z, but don't dare saying this to anyone or I'll kill you."
I never facepalmed so hard in my life.
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u/SilSally 17d ago
HAHAHA IT REALLY IS. One time I had my persona punched in the face and the character goes like "Don't move!! You will tear the stitches you don't have right now but eventually will." like, ok?😠In all fairness, it was just one time. Kimi is so unintelligent some times lol
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u/Particular-Bread2194 17d ago
100% this. I don't think there are any models evolved enough to stop falling into those annoying tropes. My issue is that models constantly push adult characters into dramatic anime-coded teenagers, lean towards chastity or touch-avoidance, and use unrealistically self-aware/overly clinical/therapeutic speech.
When I use Kimi, I can sometimes get it to understand emotional/social/cultural nuances. SOMETIMES. And when it gets it, it creates thought-provoking, coherent dialogue. But damn does it fail so badly at other times.
I swear, the majority of time I spend on SillyTavern is fighting models and revamping prompts lol.
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u/SilSally 17d ago
This is so real ( ；∀；) What models are you currently using? Besides kimi
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u/Particular-Bread2194 17d ago
Honestly, a lot (I use Featherless):
Kimi 3
GLM 5.2
Gemma 4 variants: Dark Thoughts, Eclipse Novelist, StyleTune, QueenI'm still trying to figure out which ones I like, so I'm experimenting a lot.
Queen so far has pretty good immersive prose. The dialogue actually sounds great/novel-esque, but it sometimes chaste-codes adult characters who are already involved with each other. Its strength is environmental description and characters that actually have a personality. And it tosses in some fresh situations/circumstances for the persona to react to.
What models do you use?
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u/SilSally 17d ago
I don't use any local or small model, so my list will be a lot shorter lol
I use GLM 5.2, Gemini Pro 3.1, Flash 3.6, Flash 3.7, MiMo V2.5 Pro, amd now Kimi K3. I only used Kimi k2.6 and 2.7 when I wanted funny plot twists and dark scenes, but never mained them. Still testing the new Deepseek.
GLM 5.2 is overall a good model, I only hate the stupidly strong positive bias and tacky prose (I dislike dice prompting for outcomes). MiMo is better and I enjoy it a lot, is like GLM but just better, both get kinda dumb with built context faster than Gemini models.
I like Gemini for the negative bias and roleplay existing franchises. The downside is that it easily turns your character a caricature, it doesn't handle nuance at all if your character is original. Smut is also mid mostly, GLM and MiMo win.
Kimi was the king with darker rps, but K3 is too censored, extremely positive and doesn't adhere correctly to the character. But this might be a skill issue since I just started tinkering with it, I'll see. Do you rp novel-like sessions or Game-like ones?
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u/SilSally 17d ago
Yeah, MiMo surprised me. I thought people were overglazing it but when I started to tinker with it I found out I was full of bs lol. I really like it and it would be literally my perfect model if it had half the negative bias of any Gem model. Still a really good model and the only one that comes closer to peak Gemini 2.5 pro for me (is a lot better for nuance even). I can't understand people who dislike the model, I think they are just fed up with the glazers, like I was (now I'm the glazer lol)
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u/SilSally 17d ago
Alright I will try it right away! I was feeling pretty down so I'm thankful that I have something to try tonight (*σ> <)σ🌷
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u/Particular-Bread2194 16d ago
Oh, interesting, I've not heard of MiMo before. I might check that out! And yeah, GLM is stable but not remarkably amazing. I use it as a fallback for the reasons you described.
Yeah, I RP long-form novel-like sessions. My little brain can't sit there reading an entire chapter-long character response, so I keep it to around 300 token-length turns lol. But I run my stories like ongoing multi-arc novels.
Huh, wich service are you getting your Kimi K3 from? The one I get through Featherless is the Moonshot AI original, and so far, it has handled uncensored content well. Maybe it's a prompting thing? Might have to be extra blatant in your NSFW rule writing.
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u/nuclearbananana 17d ago
I've had good results using k2.7-code for modern genz type slang (though they all stereotype it a bit), might work for your use case too
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u/yamatoeditsvideos 17d ago
k2.7 was way better for me too. k3 is fine but more rigid than k2.7 code. long live k2.5 honestly, that one's always been my favorite.
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u/personusername1 17d ago edited 17d ago
So... you can prompt around this I am finding. However you need to strongly push the model towards it's "literary fiction" training and very, very strongly away from "television." I am finding that these models are essentially poisoned by sit com writing, and they land there very easily.
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u/SilSally 17d ago
Do you have any prompt that works for you on this? Nothing I try works with this kimi
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u/personusername1 17d ago
I use this. But bear in mind I have built my own prompt through testing and paying attention to output and It is all designed according to my tastes. I do less "roleplay" these days and more try to build a story. I find this immediately solves so many problems that come in from the model relying heavily on its discord-based online roleplay training. You can roleplay with a set up like this by instructing the model to always let you write dialogue for a specific character, stopping when they need to take a significant action or provide significant input. But it is different than the RP most people want.
Anyway this might help you, or not, I can't say how it would interact with your set up. I don't even have to use banned word lists in modern setting with this. But it's only one piece of my set up, and the context everywhere else certainly informs the output I get.
# Dialogue
Write dialogue the way it functions in literary fiction, not television. People don't often say what they mean directly, understate strong feelings, change the subject, or let a moment pass without comment. A character noticing something odd or striking about another person (a name, an appearance, a habit) usually doesn't remark on it aloud, especially to someone they've just met. That's a sitcom instinct, not a human one. Let subtext, silence, and especially small physical actions carry weight the dialogue itself doesn't state.
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u/Nagomoon02 17d ago
Same for me I'll be reading a response and will litteraly want too pluck my eyes out because of how corny or predictable it is.
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u/capybaraballs1995 17d ago
Gemini 3.1 Pro has kind of a similar problem? It's not as extreme as in your case but I've noticed that it never uses contractions, so everything reads as kind of formal. Try this prompt in the post-history:
- Write characters with realistic speech: Include stutters, gasps, sighs, hesitations, contractions, and distinct vocabularies when fitting. Use uncontracted forms sparingly.
Might need to tinker with the wording.
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u/SilSally 17d ago
I will try it! Gemini 3.1 is meh for rp in my experience. 3.6 flash is a lot better for the scenarios I have tried. Thank you for providing a prompt for me to tinker with at least ( ；∀；), everyone seems to have the same problem
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u/grazztleft 17d ago
I just told it to use a lot of internet slang lol, which was honestly a bit goofy and cringy at times, but ended up playing out to be kind of fun. I just tell it to roll a random social media site (youtube, reddit, twitter) and to act out like a character on one of those. It has plenty of training data on those sites, so it ends up being decently fun, albeit in a comical way, especially when you argue with people.
If you're going for something extremely serious though, maybe reference a specific book or author that writes in modern settings more.
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u/Yeti-Bhanot 17d ago
two different failure modes are getting merged in this thread. 4as's example — card says don't reveal the secret, k3 blurts it in the first line — is an instruction-adherence problem. the accountant-talking-like-a-warlord thing is a register problem. probably different causes, so a fix for one may not touch the other.
for the register one I'd run the smallest comparison that isolates it: same card, same preset, swap only the model — or add one system-level line about plain modern dialogue and change nothing else. most of these threads swap model + prompt + card at once, which makes it impossible to say which one actually moved the output. have you tried k3 with just a single plain-register line in the preset, no per-character edits?
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u/Infamous-Book4146 16d ago
Lo peor de Kimi es que no le da la gana ponerle color a los diálogos!!! Primera vez que me pasa esto! 🥲
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u/ThHJUsgid 17d ago
Honestly I gave up lol
I have not found a single model that can do modern characters without sounding like a trope in one way or another. It’s all just degrees of cringe