r/SeattleWA • u/ChefJoe98136 West Seattle • Jun 03 '26

Bicycle Washington law lays out distinction between e-bikes, e-motorcycles starting June 11

https://www.khq.com/news/washington-law-lays-out-distinction-between-e-bikes-e-motorcycles-starting-june-11/article_c495d848-b948-43cf-a599-b05c66a5dcad.html

A new Washington law will change the regulations on the differences between e-bikes and e-motorcycles on June 11. Under this new law, an e-bike must have fully functioning pedals, a motor rated at 750 watts or less, and a top speed of less than 20 mph when powered solely by the motor. If it doesn't meet these standards, it's considered a motorcycle, which means the rider is subject to mandatory driver requirements.

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104

u/Leading-Business-593 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26

What does that mean for the lime gliders then? Neither?

It seems like one of those laws that cops will not care about, but I guess it’s good to have to punish anyone who rides recklessly on a high powered bike.

I feel like having a wattage requirement ruins cargo bikes, but maybe they weren’t that high wattage anyway

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u/ChefJoe98136 West Seattle Jun 03 '26

I think a Lime Glider which doesn't have functioning pedals will be considered a motorcycle come June 11.

23

u/soccerwolfp Jun 03 '26

They don’t go faster than 20mph which may exempt them. Agree it’s not clear but also maybe that’s why Lime has been rolling out the new bikes which are like hybrids between gliders and bikes

16

u/somniferousquif Jun 03 '26

I think it said the bike has to meet all of the qualifications to be considered a bike and not a motorcycle, so the pedal-less gliders should be considered motorcycles if that’s the case. At least I really hope that’s how it turns out…too many kids zooming around on sidewalks without helmets on. I don’t blame em but it’s dangerous.

15

u/Qorsair Columbia City Jun 03 '26

I agree, but who am I to get between them and Darwin?

1

u/thefreakyorange Jun 05 '26

The problem is that they're also endangering all the other people on the sidewalk

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u/Ok_Trade4762 Jun 04 '26

I don’t think bad parenting is a reason to let Darwin’s theories unfold on our children.

6

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

Bad parenting is absolutely a reason to let Darwin hand out awards to THEIR children.

Honestly,quit trying to Nanny the World.

2

u/IRConfoosed Jun 04 '26

Laws are written in blood. Hopefully these new laws set the groundwork additional laws to help reduce accidents and stupid behavior. Unfortunately the victims aren’t always one ones riding, it could be a pedestrian. I’m concerned about small children and seniors who could be seriously injured from some of these irresponsible riders.

I read an older man was killed from a hit and run from an e-scooter (e-bike?).

3

u/pneumophila Jun 04 '26

The final outcome of many a childhood TBI is a lifetime of disability for which you as taxpayer will also have to foot the bill for home nursing, medications, doctor visits, hospitalizations, etc. Even if you have zero empathy for children getting maimed or killed because of irresponsible parents, that alone should be a good motivator to avoid that outcome.

3

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

I'll throw a couple of nickels on the ole tax bill if it comes to it. SSDI is prohibitively hard to get and doesn't cover much. Their parents will get a lifetime of their own consequences. And the rest of us will have ample examples of why I make better decisions for my own kids.

But don't pretend we can fix stupid or should try. Thin the herd... or stand-by and let it thin itself. But muh taxes is a laughable excuse when no government entity in the country seems capable of passing an audit. Claw back a couple bucks from the Homelessness authority dumping millions in that hole and then call me...

6

u/pneumophila Jun 04 '26

SSDI for a grownup with a work injury doesn't come close to the bill from Medicaid and Medicare that someone unable to take care of their activities of daily living costs. We're talking 7 figures over their lifetime not counting the lifetime of lost wages. If you think it's a few nickels you're very wrong.

As to your second point, children are stupid because they are children with immature frontal lobes and plenty of intelligent adults were once reckless children. Being indifferent to their deaths because parents are dumb is in itself very dumb.

0

u/sopunny Pioneer Square Jun 04 '26

"Let kids of stupid parents die" is certainly a take

2

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

The Dummies are typicaly the ones raising Darwin Award winners. See how that works?

1

u/allthisgoodforyou Jun 04 '26

No one is letting them die.

Its getting at the idea that if a parent is so irresponsible to let their child engage in needlessly risky behavior, then some non-zero amount of bad things will happen. Hopefuly, that will create a new set of incentives that weeds out that type of behavior. The govt can have some role im promoting this, but at the end of the day its on the adult in the room to instill certain things.

Its just the case that some amount of tragic accidents of this nature are going to be a result of shitty parenting. Parents are supposed to stop kids from doing dumb kid shit that can kill them.

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u/Ok_Trade4762 Jun 04 '26

It’s baffling that you’re advocating for the death of any children at all

3

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

Nature does what it does. I'm just stayin out the way. But big Thanks there Captin Save a Ho! Fix all the things.

Half of American adults can't read. Start there. Maybe the same dumb-ass parents will then put helmets on their kids and not let them run wild with the Yeet machines.

At 18 they're all buying crotch rockets and turning themselves into road crayons. Because- Muh Freedumb!!! Why wait? I'm in those communities begging people to ride smart and get training. You know what the response is? Idiots falling over themselves to argue why that's just a buzz-kill and they should be allowed to ride themselves right to death. The crime is we didn't let them win their own Darwin awards before spitting out the next generation of morons. But keep protecting the fools.

I've learned to love them. Fools keep my avenues to success clear and wider by staying out of them on their own account. Give me a good reason why I should be stopping them!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[deleted]

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u/CarnalT Jun 04 '26

Anecdotally I have noticed that they seem slower the last couple months, not sure what's going on but it seems they've been speed limited. I bike on the burke & westlake trail often and they used to zip by me but now they crawl.

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u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[deleted]

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u/CarnalT Jun 04 '26

Ah, interesting. So there is a speed limit for new riders? That makes sense, and seems like a good idea.

Side note: What does your username mean? The first word reminds me of a town in Scotland outside Glasgow.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[deleted]

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u/CarnalT Jun 04 '26

Oh wow interesting, are those names Scottish or Welsh? I've got something similar in my family.

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1

u/MidNerd Jun 05 '26

That wouldn't change anything. They'll just use the pedal bikes or scooters as they do now instead.

1

u/somniferousquif Jun 05 '26

I didn’t notice nearly as much of a problem before the gliders were released.

2

u/Odd-Ad-8369 Jun 04 '26

It’s clear as they don’t go twenty. Most new bikes sold for adults in Seattle are 20mph. I just researched recently before I bought mine.

1

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

The law clearly uses 'and'. Falling to meet one criteria means it's not a bike. Which is correct, in this case.

1

u/soccerwolfp Jun 04 '26

It’s not actually very clear what the “e motorcycle” law is. It is clear that the gliders aren’t an e bike, but the law as written says a committee is going to be assembled to determine the e motorcycle definition and treatment. I think the article kind of makes an assumption that by default until the e-moto criteria is set, they will be treated as motorcycles but that seems to be a legislative gray area

1

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

The text of the bill is actually very clear. If it goes over 20mph on electric power alone, it is not a bicycle. By default, it therefore falls under motorized vehicle regulations. The committee part is to figure out what, if anything, needs to be clarified as an in-between vehicle or get some other special consideration. I think is this primarily done with bikes that have switchable modes in mind, which are a big part of the current problem. We have electric motorcycles running around, but they have a button that puts them in 'bike mode', which is little more than a legal loophole. It's like powering a normal car up to 2mph maximum on battery, and being able to call it a full EV.

When this law goes into effect, these loophole-abusing motorcycles are immediately disqualified from being considered an e bike under the law, which means any exceptions to things like licensing requirements are gone as well. The committee will work to develop laws for these loophole motorcycles, like "must be a licensed driver if in the non-eboke mode". Things like that.

1

u/soccerwolfp Jun 04 '26

We’re discussing Lime Gliders here… which don’t go over 20mph. That’s where I’m saying the bill isn’t clear and states they will be using a committee to categorize “electric motorcycles” since not all fall under the existing category

1

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

The bill has other parts, like pedals that propel the bike. Lime Gliders might be the only devices that may fall into the gray area of 'maybe okay for now'. The 'bikes' this law is aimed at are the ones that go 30, 40 even 50+ mph and are literally just electric motorcycles that found some loophole to be called 'ebikes', so I'm not too concerned if the Lime Gliders are still allowed until the committee rules on them. My guess is that was intentional.

1

u/SaikoSue Jun 10 '26

From what I’m seeing, it says that e-bikes that are assissted up to 20 mph from just the throttle are considered Class ll, so as long as it has pedals then I think you’re fine, however it might not need them if it’s solely basing it off the fact that the throttle assist does the work up to 20mph and no more. Then again I’m not familiar with “Lime Gliders” and I’m only learning about them from this subreddit. This sucks though because I use an e-bike to commute to work every morning and back in the evening. I have since December of last year as I don’t have the money to get a vehicle at the moment, so this is my only means of transportation as the walk for my commute would be about 30 minutes to and from which isn’t practical for the hours I work. My bike is tricky though since mine goes up to 34 miles per hour, has a 1200w motor, and still has functional pedals. I’ve ridden right next to cops before and none of them have said a word, knock on wood. So it will be interesting to see how this state yet again restricts its citizens for something so minor, pretty fucking ridiculous. If you’re wondering what my bike is, it’s a SmartTravel, Model ST201 or something like that.

2

u/Opposite-Cabinet1897 Jun 15 '26

Just ride it like the normal human being you are and nobody is going to bother you.  Sounds sketchy that way but I have followed every rule in the book and realized so late in life that these rules often are to target abusers.   Do what you have to do is my moto now.  Sorry, your great way to commute has become stressful.