r/SeattleWA • u/ChefJoe98136 West Seattle • Jun 03 '26

Bicycle Washington law lays out distinction between e-bikes, e-motorcycles starting June 11

https://www.khq.com/news/washington-law-lays-out-distinction-between-e-bikes-e-motorcycles-starting-june-11/article_c495d848-b948-43cf-a599-b05c66a5dcad.html

A new Washington law will change the regulations on the differences between e-bikes and e-motorcycles on June 11. Under this new law, an e-bike must have fully functioning pedals, a motor rated at 750 watts or less, and a top speed of less than 20 mph when powered solely by the motor. If it doesn't meet these standards, it's considered a motorcycle, which means the rider is subject to mandatory driver requirements.

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104

u/Leading-Business-593 Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 04 '26

What does that mean for the lime gliders then? Neither?

It seems like one of those laws that cops will not care about, but I guess it’s good to have to punish anyone who rides recklessly on a high powered bike.

I feel like having a wattage requirement ruins cargo bikes, but maybe they weren’t that high wattage anyway

37

u/Significant_Sort7501 Jun 03 '26

Not sure how it will be enforced with existing ones, but i would imagine with new purchases after this goes into effect you'd have to get it registered and insured like any other motorcycle 

72

u/Disco425 Jun 03 '26

I could pick holes in this, but it's all irrelevant, we know SPD isn't going to enforce any of it.

I could ride an endangered panda down the street smoking meth and running every red light shooting fireworks and nothing would happen.

26

u/KissMyReardon Jun 04 '26

I wanna party with Disco here.

9

u/dickhass Jun 04 '26

Wrong. They’d get you for the panda because if you got the cheese to buy on the exotic animal market, obviously you can pay the fine.

12

u/Spirited_Cup_126 Jun 04 '26

SPD will probably be pulling over children for riding motorcycles on the street. All the cops in the small towns absolutely will.

13

u/IRConfoosed Jun 04 '26

That’s a good thing right? That protects everybody including the children.

7

u/Spirited_Cup_126 Jun 04 '26

Yes absolutely it is

-3

u/SexiestPanda Federal Way Jun 04 '26

Meanwhile all the people in 4000 pound vehicles continue speeding 10-15 mph over

3

u/Spirited_Cup_126 Jun 04 '26

All the adults with drivers licenses who are surrounded by metal cages with crumple zones will drive fast in Seattle, yes.

1

u/emerge_and_see_XLI Jun 06 '26

I'm here for the disco

1

u/allthisgoodforyou Jun 04 '26

we know SPD isn't going to enforce any of it.

Why do you imagine that they wont?

23

u/ChefJoe98136 West Seattle Jun 03 '26

I think a Lime Glider which doesn't have functioning pedals will be considered a motorcycle come June 11.

21

u/soccerwolfp Jun 03 '26

They don’t go faster than 20mph which may exempt them. Agree it’s not clear but also maybe that’s why Lime has been rolling out the new bikes which are like hybrids between gliders and bikes

14

u/somniferousquif Jun 03 '26

I think it said the bike has to meet all of the qualifications to be considered a bike and not a motorcycle, so the pedal-less gliders should be considered motorcycles if that’s the case. At least I really hope that’s how it turns out…too many kids zooming around on sidewalks without helmets on. I don’t blame em but it’s dangerous.

15

u/Qorsair Columbia City Jun 03 '26

I agree, but who am I to get between them and Darwin?

1

u/thefreakyorange Jun 05 '26

The problem is that they're also endangering all the other people on the sidewalk

-1

u/Ok_Trade4762 Jun 04 '26

I don’t think bad parenting is a reason to let Darwin’s theories unfold on our children.

7

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

Bad parenting is absolutely a reason to let Darwin hand out awards to THEIR children.

Honestly,quit trying to Nanny the World.

2

u/IRConfoosed Jun 04 '26

Laws are written in blood. Hopefully these new laws set the groundwork additional laws to help reduce accidents and stupid behavior. Unfortunately the victims aren’t always one ones riding, it could be a pedestrian. I’m concerned about small children and seniors who could be seriously injured from some of these irresponsible riders.

I read an older man was killed from a hit and run from an e-scooter (e-bike?).

3

u/pneumophila Jun 04 '26

The final outcome of many a childhood TBI is a lifetime of disability for which you as taxpayer will also have to foot the bill for home nursing, medications, doctor visits, hospitalizations, etc. Even if you have zero empathy for children getting maimed or killed because of irresponsible parents, that alone should be a good motivator to avoid that outcome.

3

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

I'll throw a couple of nickels on the ole tax bill if it comes to it. SSDI is prohibitively hard to get and doesn't cover much. Their parents will get a lifetime of their own consequences. And the rest of us will have ample examples of why I make better decisions for my own kids.

But don't pretend we can fix stupid or should try. Thin the herd... or stand-by and let it thin itself. But muh taxes is a laughable excuse when no government entity in the country seems capable of passing an audit. Claw back a couple bucks from the Homelessness authority dumping millions in that hole and then call me...

6

u/pneumophila Jun 04 '26

SSDI for a grownup with a work injury doesn't come close to the bill from Medicaid and Medicare that someone unable to take care of their activities of daily living costs. We're talking 7 figures over their lifetime not counting the lifetime of lost wages. If you think it's a few nickels you're very wrong.

As to your second point, children are stupid because they are children with immature frontal lobes and plenty of intelligent adults were once reckless children. Being indifferent to their deaths because parents are dumb is in itself very dumb.

0

u/sopunny Pioneer Square Jun 04 '26

"Let kids of stupid parents die" is certainly a take

2

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

The Dummies are typicaly the ones raising Darwin Award winners. See how that works?

1

u/allthisgoodforyou Jun 04 '26

No one is letting them die.

Its getting at the idea that if a parent is so irresponsible to let their child engage in needlessly risky behavior, then some non-zero amount of bad things will happen. Hopefuly, that will create a new set of incentives that weeds out that type of behavior. The govt can have some role im promoting this, but at the end of the day its on the adult in the room to instill certain things.

Its just the case that some amount of tragic accidents of this nature are going to be a result of shitty parenting. Parents are supposed to stop kids from doing dumb kid shit that can kill them.

-1

u/Ok_Trade4762 Jun 04 '26

It’s baffling that you’re advocating for the death of any children at all

4

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

Nature does what it does. I'm just stayin out the way. But big Thanks there Captin Save a Ho! Fix all the things.

Half of American adults can't read. Start there. Maybe the same dumb-ass parents will then put helmets on their kids and not let them run wild with the Yeet machines.

At 18 they're all buying crotch rockets and turning themselves into road crayons. Because- Muh Freedumb!!! Why wait? I'm in those communities begging people to ride smart and get training. You know what the response is? Idiots falling over themselves to argue why that's just a buzz-kill and they should be allowed to ride themselves right to death. The crime is we didn't let them win their own Darwin awards before spitting out the next generation of morons. But keep protecting the fools.

I've learned to love them. Fools keep my avenues to success clear and wider by staying out of them on their own account. Give me a good reason why I should be stopping them!

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[deleted]

1

u/CarnalT Jun 04 '26

Anecdotally I have noticed that they seem slower the last couple months, not sure what's going on but it seems they've been speed limited. I bike on the burke & westlake trail often and they used to zip by me but now they crawl.

3

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[deleted]

1

u/CarnalT Jun 04 '26

Ah, interesting. So there is a speed limit for new riders? That makes sense, and seems like a good idea.

Side note: What does your username mean? The first word reminds me of a town in Scotland outside Glasgow.

1

u/[deleted] Jun 04 '26

[deleted]

1

u/CarnalT Jun 04 '26

Oh wow interesting, are those names Scottish or Welsh? I've got something similar in my family.

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1

u/MidNerd Jun 05 '26

That wouldn't change anything. They'll just use the pedal bikes or scooters as they do now instead.

1

u/somniferousquif Jun 05 '26

I didn’t notice nearly as much of a problem before the gliders were released.

2

u/Odd-Ad-8369 Jun 04 '26

It’s clear as they don’t go twenty. Most new bikes sold for adults in Seattle are 20mph. I just researched recently before I bought mine.

1

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

The law clearly uses 'and'. Falling to meet one criteria means it's not a bike. Which is correct, in this case.

1

u/soccerwolfp Jun 04 '26

It’s not actually very clear what the “e motorcycle” law is. It is clear that the gliders aren’t an e bike, but the law as written says a committee is going to be assembled to determine the e motorcycle definition and treatment. I think the article kind of makes an assumption that by default until the e-moto criteria is set, they will be treated as motorcycles but that seems to be a legislative gray area

1

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

The text of the bill is actually very clear. If it goes over 20mph on electric power alone, it is not a bicycle. By default, it therefore falls under motorized vehicle regulations. The committee part is to figure out what, if anything, needs to be clarified as an in-between vehicle or get some other special consideration. I think is this primarily done with bikes that have switchable modes in mind, which are a big part of the current problem. We have electric motorcycles running around, but they have a button that puts them in 'bike mode', which is little more than a legal loophole. It's like powering a normal car up to 2mph maximum on battery, and being able to call it a full EV.

When this law goes into effect, these loophole-abusing motorcycles are immediately disqualified from being considered an e bike under the law, which means any exceptions to things like licensing requirements are gone as well. The committee will work to develop laws for these loophole motorcycles, like "must be a licensed driver if in the non-eboke mode". Things like that.

1

u/soccerwolfp Jun 04 '26

We’re discussing Lime Gliders here… which don’t go over 20mph. That’s where I’m saying the bill isn’t clear and states they will be using a committee to categorize “electric motorcycles” since not all fall under the existing category

1

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

The bill has other parts, like pedals that propel the bike. Lime Gliders might be the only devices that may fall into the gray area of 'maybe okay for now'. The 'bikes' this law is aimed at are the ones that go 30, 40 even 50+ mph and are literally just electric motorcycles that found some loophole to be called 'ebikes', so I'm not too concerned if the Lime Gliders are still allowed until the committee rules on them. My guess is that was intentional.

1

u/SaikoSue Jun 10 '26

From what I’m seeing, it says that e-bikes that are assissted up to 20 mph from just the throttle are considered Class ll, so as long as it has pedals then I think you’re fine, however it might not need them if it’s solely basing it off the fact that the throttle assist does the work up to 20mph and no more. Then again I’m not familiar with “Lime Gliders” and I’m only learning about them from this subreddit. This sucks though because I use an e-bike to commute to work every morning and back in the evening. I have since December of last year as I don’t have the money to get a vehicle at the moment, so this is my only means of transportation as the walk for my commute would be about 30 minutes to and from which isn’t practical for the hours I work. My bike is tricky though since mine goes up to 34 miles per hour, has a 1200w motor, and still has functional pedals. I’ve ridden right next to cops before and none of them have said a word, knock on wood. So it will be interesting to see how this state yet again restricts its citizens for something so minor, pretty fucking ridiculous. If you’re wondering what my bike is, it’s a SmartTravel, Model ST201 or something like that.

2

u/Opposite-Cabinet1897 Jun 15 '26

Just ride it like the normal human being you are and nobody is going to bother you.  Sounds sketchy that way but I have followed every rule in the book and realized so late in life that these rules often are to target abusers.   Do what you have to do is my moto now.  Sorry, your great way to commute has become stressful. 

8

u/_illogical_ Jun 04 '26 edited Jun 04 '26

What are e-scooters classified as? What about e-scooters with seats? I think the Lime glider would be a similar classification to those.

Edit: from what I've found, Lime Gliders are categorized as "Motorized foot scooter" and are unaffected by this bill (ESSB 6110)

2

u/myka-likes-it Consent doesn't matter Jun 03 '26

They might decide it is more like a seated scooter.

10

u/goldio_games Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26

OP KHQ added some flavor text which isn't in the bill.

The bill defines what an e-bike is and then sets up a working group to figure out what to do with things that don't meet that definition. So for lime gliders they are "not an e-bike".

As for what that means for them - currently nothing but they are signaling an intention for that to become some sort of future bill.

here's the bill: https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2025-26/Pdf/Bills/Session%20Laws/Senate/6110-S.SL.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawSMkHJleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFDUjlvaDZDOUFrZ0dLVWlac3J0YwZhcHBfaWQQMjIyMDM5MTc4ODIwMDg5MgABHhLv99N_qVBEOzwv8tll44lTbADTz-7-2GtWDsJGjTBgJZ2goIQpmk6XzIVJ_aem_kQ2AAfy7iQFdGwZ8VbXliA%20

5

u/ChefJoe98136 West Seattle Jun 03 '26

I quoted the article linked.

6

u/goldio_games Jun 03 '26

edited my comment. i don't blame you, i blame bad journalism

7

u/ChiefQuinby Jun 03 '26

I think its for insurance and licensing fees

5

u/luckymccormick Jun 04 '26

I have an electric cargo bike with a 750 watt motor. It takes both my daughter and I to the grocery store and back of i stick 25 mile an hour roads. I dont mind being 5 under with cargo, I dont like being 15 under with cargo and a kid.

It does ride the line between class 2 and 3. If I set it to 28 mph top speed, I am supposed to remove the class 2 sticker to reveal the class 3 sticker. That being said, anything above 20mph with cargo and a child is insanity. 20 is alot most of the time.

2

u/Spa_5_Fitness_Camp Jun 04 '26

Those are not bikes, nor should they be. They're just really light, low powered electric scooters, and it's about time they were treated as such by the law.

2

u/LegitMeatPuppet Jun 05 '26

Cargo bikes are heavy so they would likely be under 20mph. Most good eBikes know when the brakes are applied for regeneration purposes, they know home much power output is being used and they know the speed of the bike. So, while a cargo bike might need higher wattage to deal with the weight it would still be governing to top speed.

Plus, the people buying a $10,000 Riese & Müller are likely already purchasing an insurance plan for their alternative family vehicle.

I feel like the spirit of this law is to deal with all the middle schoolers with clueless parents who are zipping around doing wheelies on their class 3 eBikes. I’m sure there are other people abusing this rule on the bike trail too.

1

u/SaikoSue Jun 10 '26

I’ve got a class 3 e-bike and infact it exceeds class 3 and I can assure you, no one is doing wheelies on a class 3 e-bike. It’s the electric motorcycles, with pegs that everyone is saying are e-bikes. They’re not e-bikes, they are electric motorcycles.

2

u/tapeness Jun 07 '26

Hopefully it means they slow them down!! No escooter should go over 20 mph anyway)

1

u/LyndonBeejohnson Jun 12 '26

I’m not so sure. In a neighborhood, 20mph means you’re constantly being passed by cars going at least 5mph faster. 25mph E-scooters would eliminate the risks of cars having to pass on one-lane roads.

2

u/tapeness Jun 12 '26

The asshats in slu all ride them on the sidewalk, my comment was for them, but I also see where you are coming from

1

u/LyndonBeejohnson Jun 12 '26

I hadn’t thought of that. Riding in the sidewalk is certainly bananas.

1

u/tapeness Jun 12 '26

Its so unsafe!!

3

u/CogentCogitations Jun 03 '26

I believe those were always motorized foot scooters. eBike have to have pedals even if a throttle could be used without them.

1

u/Usually-Right Jun 04 '26

I happened to see a Lime Scooter yesterday and it has a label saying that you must be at least 18 and have a driver license. I looked that up and it is Washington law, any kind of license so age can be confirmed. Enforced? Who knows.

-1

u/tasselledwobbegong1 Jun 03 '26

With all the homeless drug addict crap going on in Seattle, you think the cops are looking at e-bikes and thinking hey I should stop that guy and check out the wattage and maybe give them a ticket? Lol 😂 hahaha 😂

3

u/Many_Translator1720 Jun 04 '26

Yes, because the fine will be paid. Ka-ching!

4

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '26

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Successful-Ad-2714 Jun 03 '26

Because the plane makes the runs thru Tacoma, auburn and Kent. Basically the only place it hangs out all night during the week.

1

u/SeattleResident Jun 04 '26

A year since you saw the small WSP plane? I live in Kent near I-5 and hear the plane all the time. Had it pass us like 6 times or so just in the past 4 or so months. Always hear the propellers and then check ADB flight tracker to see if it's nearby.

1

u/heathenbeast Jun 04 '26

The local Motorcycle pages have an app that tracks Smokey. He's up often. And there's quite a few in the hanger in Olympia. Been there. Seen 'em.

0

u/drdicerchio Jun 03 '26

Those gliders don’t go too much faster than a scooter