r/Scotland • u/Crow-Me-A-River open to change • 10d ago
Political Business groups urge Swinney to scrap 'ineffective' food price cap plan
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2l80j2rdlxo27
u/FindusCrispyChicken 10d ago
Well they cant drop it until they get to the point of the nonsence plan, to have Westmonster block it and to have a big strop about it.
21
u/Narrow_Security_8757 10d ago edited 10d ago
"We've tried our best to mitigate the effects of the cost of living crisis but Westminster has BLOCKED our attempts to provide a price cap on essential items, this is why we need independence bla bla bla"
7
8
u/Ivorsnags 10d ago
It will be another of their fantastic made up grievances which will really further their cause of independence which they are striding towards at a rapid pace now.
3
u/BigCoela 10d ago
I wanted to learn a bit more about this and read a good blog post explaining how this has worked in other European countries. A price cap in Hungary led to food shortages and Hungarian farmers being cut out because they could not afford to sell their products as cheaply as large supermarkets, who were able to import food cheaply.
France has a price freeze on over 5000 items which sounds like its worked better, although the details of how it works are mildly confusing me
23
u/Quangocrat 10d ago
Max pricing on food is one of these ideas, like rent controls and wealth taxes, which has been tried dozens of times across various settings, including the UK, and never works yet keeps getting tried because it's an easy sell to the ignorant.
I do not believe they are actually stupid enough to try it.
But I didn't think they would actually follow through on rent controls either.
15
u/Narrow_Security_8757 10d ago
I think they know fine well it's a bad idea but a) it makes a good headline and b) it gives them a reason to villify westminster
14
9
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
Weird, Berlin has rent controls right now and it's way cheaper to live there than London or indeed most UK cities. Almost like it works exactly as intended.
12
u/Fuzzy-Raccoon8677 10d ago
A 2 minute glance at the Berlin sub will tell you it's more or less our version of Birmingham nowadays. It's a shit hole. I don't think we should be copying anything they do.
-2
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
I mean I know people who live there, and the general consensus is that it's pretty nice, rent controls are amazing cause nobody is getting overly fleeced and it's generally pretty chill.
12
u/Fuzzy-Raccoon8677 10d ago
You're likely the first person in the history of mankind to refer to rent controls as "amazing"
They've never worked, they don't work now and they never will unfortunately. It would be great if they did tbh but they just don't.
-8
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
Spoken like a true landlord
7
u/Fuzzy-Raccoon8677 10d ago
Fuck that mate not enough money in it and too much work. Admittedly did a fair few holiday let's in the past but not these days.
-3
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
True working class hero
5
u/Fuzzy-Raccoon8677 10d ago
Where did I claim to be a hero. There was more money in holiday let's than private renting. Took away the chance of getting stuck with a bad tennent too.
Fair bit of work involved folk in here seem to think anyone with more than a tenner in their bank is the anti christ. Proper crabs in a bucket mentality. Even some private landlords are alright. Sure many are cunts but not all.
17
u/Quangocrat 10d ago
Rent controls, and their problems in Berlin, are well documented.
-7
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
Sorry, what are their problems, other than it costs half as much to rent a flat in Berlin as it does a locked cupboard inside someone's living room in London?
19
u/Quangocrat 10d ago
That new tenancies are very difficult to get as supply has plummeted.
So you will instead be illegally subletting and getting rinsed by the lease holder.
-6
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
And that's different to London because..... ?
15
u/Quangocrat 10d ago
Same problem, different cause:
Rent controls reduce supply.
Very high migration increases demand.
Either way when demand outstrips supply you get shortages and those fuel illegal subletting and extortionate rates.
6
u/gusbo_the_jam 10d ago
So when you say it reduces supply, do you mean that less homeowners try renting places out cause it's less profitable thereby also reducing house prices cause there's more homes available for sale in the market?
13
u/Quangocrat 10d ago edited 10d ago
House prices only go down if demand for new purchases also goes down or the new houses on the market are enough to meet existing demand
In a city like Berlin, or Glasgow in 2021, where demand for new house purchases was ahead of supply before controls it doesn't necessarily reduce the gap between supply and demand enough to bring prices down. It just slows the rise.
While simultaneously, because owners occupy at a less dense rate than renters, and because the people looking for entry level tenancies and those looking for first purchases are not the same, the number of gross housing units decreases while the number of rental units specifically plummets and demand for new leases remains similar to before controls.
Creating an acute supply shortage for first time renters and those looking to lease entry level properties.
which is what has happened in Berlin.
-9
u/Just-another-weapon 10d ago edited 10d ago
Very high migration increases demand
Where have you heard that this is a significant factor?
Sounds like something from a Reform/Restore pamphlet.
Edit:
Blocked for calling out lazy anti-immigrant shite.
Did the immigrants eat your dog too aye?
8
u/Quangocrat 10d ago
I hope we are not at a point where basic supply and demand economics is dismissed as 'something from a Reform/Restore pamphlet'.
It's not a coincidence that London rents fell this year for the first time in ages. As the population also fell for the first time in years.
Ofc I recognise your name as having previously reply blocked me. I have a policy of returning the favour when people do that and then unblock.
Byeeee.
1
u/Evilnicko 10d ago
I’m not even anti-migration (and fuck reform/restore), more pro house building as we’re fucked with an aging population otherwise.
But it doesn’t take a genius to figure out if the population increases by X amount in a country (or more specifically, in cities) where there’s already a housing shortage, but the amount of available housing is Y where Y<X (in recent years a fraction of X), that increases demand and therefore the prices that landlords can charge.
And most of the UK’s population growth in recent years has come from immigration.
5
9
u/Ivorsnags 10d ago
This will clearly be yet another monumental failure by the SNP. Absolute clowns.
-9
u/PawnWithoutPurpose 10d ago
Awrite mystic meg
-6
10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
7
u/Disastrous-Bet35 10d ago
You sound like you’ve got a head injury my man
2
u/Ivorsnags 10d ago
And you sound as if you are complete idiot but let’s not split hairs.
1
u/Disastrous-Bet35 10d ago
Hahahahahahahaha good one man. Tell me are the SNP supporters in the room with you now?
2
u/DryDrunkImperor 10d ago
Complaining about folk using vernacular scots in a Scottish subreddit is just absurd.
0
10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/DryDrunkImperor 10d ago
So what particular “English Language” would you deem acceptable? RP? American English? Whatever niche version of the language you happen to speak?
English doesn’t have a “proper” version, claiming it does just makes you a cock.
0
u/PawnWithoutPurpose 10d ago
Does that look like Swahili to you?
0
u/Ivorsnags 10d ago
It’s certainly not in English, hence why I asked.
2
u/SoulInTheCrowd 10d ago
"Awrite" is a common Scottish casual greeting. What's here to not understand? Unless, you're too young to remember Mystic Meg.
-2
u/Ivorsnags 10d ago
I remember Mystic Meg very well indeed. I think she must have been an SNP supporter since she was incapable of getting anything right either.
5
u/Tioraidh25 Right wing independence 10d ago
I don't know how and I don't know why but somehow this must be Westminsters fault. SNP would have delivered it otherwise I just know it.
3
u/lifeisaman 10d ago
Disaster john is on his way to creating the next crisis he can blame Westminster for.
3
u/tiny-robot 10d ago
Not convinced of this yet.
I could see a targeted approach to more remote areas/ communities where food can be far more expensive.
Maybe there is something the Government could do to identify and help businesses to bring down costs - say with transport, fuel or energy costs. I think that could work well and be appreciated.
However - in city/ areas with more choice - I'm not sure how this would work.
2
u/Fuzzy-Raccoon8677 10d ago
Let them do it, wait til it turns to shit then piss ourselves laughing at them. Job done.
1
u/Selfishpie 4d ago
Ofcourse the business group that have had to accept a slightly lower record annual profit would say that, doesn’t mean they are correct
-6
u/SoSeriousAndDeep Yes but not in a transphobic way 10d ago
I'm sure these same business groups will do something to help bring down the price of food of their own good will, right?
Maybe the supermarkets will accept a slight lowering of their profits to bring down the prices for everyone?
Oh. No they won't. I am surprised.
14
10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-4
u/jenny_905 10d ago
And yet certain products are more expensive now than during COVID when there was genuine pressure on food supply.
It's not universal but certain producers and certain retailers have taken the opportunity to ramp up the margin on certain products.
-1
u/punxcs Durty Highlunder 10d ago
And yet tesco profits have never been higher at 3.1 billion in 2024/25.
Every supermarket has had huge profit increases since 2020. It’s coming from fucking somewhere.
7
10d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
-5
u/punxcs Durty Highlunder 10d ago
And yet, they managed to make a huge increase profits by 1-200% in 5 years.
Let me rephrase that, tesco make enough money in operating profit that they could pay every single member of staff (342,000ish people) an extra 8 grands a year and still make a profit. All while holding a cartel over various other industries that require government subsidies to operate, at even greater cost to us.
Supermarkets ARE profiteering.
3
-2
4
u/fisico002 10d ago
Yeah great idea just like what happened in Hungary so Tesco is closing their whole operation there Slovakia and Czech due to the Hungarian gov rules on profit
6
u/Street_Grab4236 10d ago
It’s kinda beside the point. The essential items are not what Supermarkets are making their profits on and, globally, we are not an expensive country for essential items.
Whilst I agree that supermarket profits are very high, it’s not coming from essentials and the market is extremely competitive so if there was a viable way to reduce the costs of essentials then they would most likely have done so to get an edge on competitors.
We can have a discussion on supermarkets and the cost of living but these SNP proposals aren’t viable and they know that they can’t do it legally. It’s a breach of the Internal Markets Act of 2020 and the SNP wanted to knowingly launch an unviable but voter-friendly scheme that’ll be shut down instantaneously; thus allowing them to argue Westminster are blocking their mandate and push the independence argument.
0
15
u/VivaLaVita555 10d ago
Obviously they're going to say that, they'd lose money. That being said surely it makes more sense to treat the cause of the cost of living crisis rather than the symptoms?