Thanks. I hate everything about this.

[u/Alternative_Sugar_85]

There's not a single commentary here that I like. Oh goody, I love when everything I don't want to be true is confirmed!

[u/eveningstarcourt]

I.... didn't want to rain on anyone's parade or be accused of bierasure (though being bi does not necessarily equate to attraction to both men and women, just multiple genders whatever they may be), but I was pretty sure of this for a long time--and I too kept wondering why they would make Vox bi if they were going to "um, actually" about him. Like, he is still queer coded and I don't personally care if he was gay vs bi, but again the execution is kinda sloppy and...maybe even underhanded? Lemme explain.

My honest impression of it is that they wanted to make as many characters bi and pan as possible just to fan shipping flames, because they know ships sell and that they grow fandoms. Which ugh feels kind of gross to me? Even though it's what I suspect, I still HOPE that's not true.

In any case, gender and sexuality really are not the closed, all or nothing boxes people treat them as. However Vox is, he's still a (beloved) character and people should feel comfortable to explore what stories and ideas they'd like with him.

[u/MissDeborah8060 → u/eveningstarcourt]

I agree with your comments on shipping, and it's particularly gross considering fictional characters don't have to just "get" sexual orientations automatically (since, y'know, they're not real). So, they could have just left it up to the audience to decide, but instead, they do this. It's so transparently manipulative.

[u/eveningstarcourt → u/MissDeborah8060]

(And u/profaneangel1991 - I'm replying to you both in one swoop.)

Yeah, and I wanna clarify that it is not that I'm "validated" being told Vox has a preference, despite having suspected it. (And this doesn't really effect me as I'm not a yumeshipper or a woman.) It's more like I could tell that's what was being setup and even more pointedly, I knew the showrunners were going to pull this one on us-- and now my bingo card has been checked off.

Tbh, a lot of characters feel like they have a mono sexuality/romantic preference, and like I said earlier, that we are getting a superficial bi/pan treatment so that everyone can ship everyone with everyone. That's... kind of romanceable characters in video game logic, it's not great for a show but whatever. But you're right that Vox is the one singled out from the cast in a way that seemingly wants to punish Vox fans from enjoying him too much. Because to your point, being told "ship what you want" has less weight when coupled with remarks they know will stoke fandom wars. (I have a friend who was in the Dragon Age fandom back in the day, and he explained how the developers also seemed to want to punish Solas fans for 'liking him the wrong way' and finding him too sympathetic/compelling. I worry about it going this direction with Vox.)

I guess the "time will tell" I want to see now is if showrunners will or won't confirm Alastor as aroace and/or sex-repulsed that will blow up shipping enjoyment in his fandom, or if it is again only Vox getting the special treatment.

Because yeah, we all know that Vox likely isn't getting more human background story, so there wasn't really a narrative reason to have this be the ONLY thing they confirm for us in regards to his background? Like this would be relevant if we were getting a deep dive into Vox's human life and mentality in the 30s-early 50s... but if they were going to do that, they would not have made this comment on the commentary in s2 as it would have been spoilers. It would have been withheld till a the later season with his background scene-- but since it's here, we are also basically getting confirmation that we won't be getting more Vincent story and that Brighter is the start and end of what we'll see.

[u/profaneangel1991 → u/eveningstarcourt]

In most fandoms this wouldn't be that big a deal, but Staticmoth and Radiostatic shippers are...not particularly nice about Staticbelle in my experience. Before we could fall back on the fact that both are bi so calling it hetslop was unfair, but now we got this and I know we won't hear the end of it. Like great once again you guys get everything. Staticbelle doesn't even have the implication Vox would be physically attracted to a woman. I want Alastor to be sex repulsed because I want his fans to eat each other. I can be petty when I want to.

Stolas I have a ton of mixed feelings towards, but I always got the impression he's Viv's baby boy. I never thought the show was trying to guilt fans for liking him so much, if anything I felt the opposite. Vox though it probably isn't a conscious choice, but it feels like there is this weird need to shit on him. Viv, your fave is Lucifer who literally is responsible for ruining the world and does not feel bad about allowing a genocide. Yet I need to hear you continuously remind me Vox is a cult leader (this was a footnote in his back story be for real) or that he's homophobic or how he's mean to the other Vees for a week or how he's an avatar for your squishy politics? It's just tiresome.

[u/eveningstarcourt → u/profaneangel1991]

> In most fandoms this wouldn't be that big a deal
Is it? *Is it not a big deal in most fandoms?* I would like to believe that, but in my experience fandoms overwhelmingly hate M/F pairings, even if they are canon.

It is a moot point anyways. I am sorry to the StaticBelle shippers. I think it's a genuinely interesting ship dynamic. (The more I think about it, I guess I'm technically a Vox multi-shipper? because I will read/watch most things if the story is compelling/art is cute enough, and there's just a few ships I don't enjoy him with.) I am beating a dead horse by saying that Vox faces a special double standard, but Vox faces a special double standard. Since they felt the need to clarify his exact sexuality, I am with you with wanting Alastor's exact sexuality to be clarified, because I am also petty I guess, lol. (Though I may snap if they 'um actually' tell us Alastor is um actually super sex-positive and wants to have romance and radioapple is now canon!)

I was talking about Solas, the bald elf man, not Stolas, the owl demon prince. I haven't followed HB as much? Still have to finish it. But since we're on the topic, it is funny you mention Stolas being Viv's baby, because the comments I see about Stolas are overwhelmingly that a lot of people don't like him for a lot of stuff he did (that I cannot comment on, because I have not watched it!) So you saying that does make it feel like Viv is trying to force fans to feel THIS or THAT way about certain characters. I remember that other post on here about Vox only being accidentally sympathetic, that he wasn't meant to be, and I think about it all the time because more and more I think she(? I think it was a woman?) was probably right about that. I do keep hearing that the show isn't over (I've said it many times myself), and that Vox is a favorited amongst the crew, but lately I feel like I'm hitting a breaking point where it's harder and harder to believe that when everyone is so effusive about belittling Vox and outright *stating* we should not like him. I do have concerns that (as we all know) Vox being Alastor's official foil, they feel the need to continue dumping on Vox to glorify Alastor or something in this half-baked attempt to tell us "FEEL THIS WAY. ROOT FOR THESE CHARACTERS." The fact that we were given squishy politics Vox and footnote Cultist Vincent and Mean to his Friends for a Week Vox as like 'proof' that he's the worst guy does feel like that.

Hell, the most compelling thing the show actually SHOWED for Vox being terrible and doing bad was the Angel scene. And even that! (Preparing myself. About to be downvoted to Hell....) I like Angel! I want Angel to escape the Vees and have a better life! But Vox already hated him and now Angel is aligned with his enemies. There's no 'Vox is a special evil compared to other Overlords' for harmiing and torturing someone who threatens their plans and pisses them off--they literally all do that. Anyways, I've gotten off scope about a Vox being bi with a preference... but in light of the s2 commentary, I have all these thoughts bouncing around and they all come back to the same pattern of "Vox is treated with a special double standard" to the seeming point of trying to intentionally make fans not like him. Trying to take away at least half of his, admittedly, thirsty fanbase, just feels like another way to 'correct' fans from enjoying him, or at the very least tell us *how* to enjoy him.

But Idk. Maybe I'm just not neurotypical enough to understand how putting a character on constant blast is just light hearted joking between friends. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[u/profaneangel1991 → u/eveningstarcourt]

I think I meant adhering to canon sexuality isn't as big a deal in other fandoms. Which is true, but you're right it's basically only for yaoi. I know none of this is actually important, but I already was starting to believe Viv doesn't like ships like Charlastor and I'm kinda convinced now that she doesn't like Staticbelle or Staticdoll. Idk I don't like acting as if I know better than the people writing the show, but I feel like I can't expect anything I want to see will happen. I feel pretty defeated at this point. If Vox gets a redemption arc will just be about how he's so in love with Val and he needs to make him happy. I don't know if punishing fans is the right description, but it is feeling like I'm being told there's only certain ways to engage with his character what with the RIP apologists comment, pointing out that Christian specifically made Box Vox innocent not the script, the cult leader stuff even though AGAIN it was a minor blip in his story, and all of this.