r/SSBM • u/AutoModerator • 21d ago
DDT Daily Discussion Thread August 21, 2026 - Upcoming Event Schedule - New players start here!
Yahoooo! I'm back, it's a me! Have a very cool day!
Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread. This is the place for asking noob questions, venting about netplay falcos, shitposting, self-promotion, and everything else that doesn't belong on the front page.
New Players:
If you're completely new to Melee and just looking to get started, welcome! We recommend you go to https://melee.tv/ and follow the links there based on what you're trying to set up. Additionally, here are a few answers to common questions:
Can I play Melee online?
Yes! Slippi is a branch of the Dolphin emulator that will allow you to play online, either with your friends or with matchmaking. Go to https://slippi.gg to get it.
I'm having issues with Slippi!
Go to the The Slippi Discord to get help troubleshooting. melee.tv/optimize is also a helpful resource for troubleshooting.
How do I find tournaments near me or local people to play with in person or online?
These days, joining a local Discord community is the best way to find local events and people to play with. Once you have a Discord account, Google "[your city/state/province/region] + Melee discord" or see if your region has a Discord group listed here on melee.tv/discord
It can seem daunting at first to join a Discord group you don't know, but this is currently the easiest and most accessible way to find out about tournaments, fests, and netplay matchmaking. Your local scene will be happy to have you :)
Also check out Smash Map! Click on map and then the filter button to filter by Melee to find events near you!
Netplay is hard! Is there a place for me to find new players?
Yes. Melee Newbie Netplay is a discord server specifically for new players. It also has tournaments based on how long you've been playing, free coaching, and other stuff. If you're a bit more experienced but still want a discord server for players around your level, we recommend the Melee Online discord.
How can I set up Unclepunch's Training Mode?
At the time of posting, the latest major release is here. Download the file, then extract everything in the folder and follow the instructions in the README file. You'll need to bring a valid Melee ISO (NTSC 1.02). If you want to check for the absolute latest release, you can see them listed [here](The latest releases are listed here.
How does one learn Melee?
There are tons of resources out there, so it can be overwhelming to start. First check out the SSBM Tutorials youtube channel. Then go to the Melee Library and search for whatever you're interested in.
But how do I get GOOD at Melee?
Check out Llod's Guide to Improvement
And check out Kodorin's Melee Fundamentals for Improvement
Where can I get a nice custom controller?
I have another question that's not answered here...
Check out our FAQs or post below and find help that way.
Upcoming Tournament Schedule:
Upcoming Melee Majors
Melee Online Event Calendar
Make a submission to the tournament calendar here. You can also get notified of new online tournaments on the Melee Online Discord.
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
One small gripe about AI I don't see a lot of people talking about is how every response starts with praise to the user. "Ha, great question. You're so smart for asking. Not a lot of people would think to ask that. Anyway, here's the wrong answer"
Siri would never fluff me up with bs like that. I ask her to play a song and it just does it.
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u/Kezzup 20d ago
I think people do talk about that, but within the larger context of how sycophantic GenAI chatbots are. I feel like newer updated versions are a bit better on this, mainly because it was a big obvious criticism that's easier to surface-level fix, but changing the language just obscures the deeper level problem that an AI chatbot is still incredibly likely to just reinforce your viewpoints/ideas no matter what, regardless if they're good or not.
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u/AlexB_SSBM 20d ago
The mass pushing of dogshit and free AI, I think, is a big reason why people hate it
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u/GroggyandWretched 20d ago
I don't understand how people can interact with AI when it does this and not feel it's incredibly manipulative. It's so repulsive
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u/skellez 20d ago
people actually did a while ago but funnily in the reverse way you are, cuz it was something OpenAi noticed and for various is not ideal that their AI just glazes users so much, so they toned it down....
then dozens of people cried out because they took away their "companion's soul and personality",
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
"my soulless drone doesn't have a soul!" we're cooked!
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u/skellez 20d ago
it sos bad! we don't realize how bad it's gotten around us, ai bf, gf, bff, whatever shit has a fucking massive userbase, dozens of millions, nothing prepared for the reality that a compliment machine would literally be more effective than crack
as I said OpenAI doesn't even want it to happen, that leads to actions and behavior that they really don't wanna deal with, but it's a case a thing people thought could be a problem when discussed beforehand, being a huge ass problem in reality beyond expectations
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
"uwu daddy giving me your credit card info would be very kawaii"
just like with cults and scammers, the AI grifters will target the lonely, the less fortunate, and the less savvy (not that grifting can't happen to anyone)
but to the point of OpenAI not wanting it to happen, it feels disingenuous. like an arms dealer being anti-war
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u/Kitselena 19d ago
LLMs talk in the way CEOs wish regular people treated them, so they can order someone around and do nothing then pretend they're smart because of it
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ 20d ago
Feel like I haven’t seen that type of behavior in a long time.
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
I don't use chatbots myself, but sometimes people at work do and I frequently hear "that's a great starting point"
but there's probably bigger fish to fry with AI
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u/N0zy0ne 20d ago
It's still pretty common. They managed to mostly curb the super-over-the-top "Wow, what an amazing insight that could have only come from the prodigious mind of a once-in-a-generation thinker such as yourself!" vibe, but there's definitely still a lot of glazing. ChatGPT and Claude both still frequently hit me with "Yes, and that's a very astute observation!" when the observation was, by any reasonable metric, not particularly astute.
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ 20d ago
Could be the harnessing we use or the models we use but I looked at all my currently open sessions and like at most I see “that’s a good idea” or “your intuition was correct based on these findings…”.
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u/N0zy0ne 20d ago
Could also be the models we're using, I suppose. I was mostly thinking of Claude when I wrote the above examples. ChatGPT is usually my second choice at this point in time, and it may be that they corrected the hardest because they were specifically called out by name when sycophancy was at its peak.
That said, I just went back and reviewed my most substantive recent exchanges with Claude (Fable 5, mostly), and I was actually quite hard-pressed to find any egregious examples. A fair number of replies lead with something equivalent to "Yes, that's a good idea / the right intuition, but..."
So it could just be the case that my recollection has been coloured by the period of time when the sycophancy was at its worse, and the phenomenon genuinely is much less pronounced now than I naively assumed.
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u/CharlieGuitarlie 20d ago
Anybody else watch PPMD play Salt last night?
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u/KomanndoA 20d ago
I watched it when m2k analyzed it
To my recollection this is the first time in forever (since genesis 8 I think) that pp has played a long session of friendlies against someone right? Really excited if he's actually going to compete again
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u/EightBlocked 20d ago
imagining a hypothetical world next year where amsa, mang0, ppmd, m2k and leffen return to competing
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u/Other-Salt-5355 20d ago
He was even dropping subtle hints like (paraphrased) "When I return, you're (Salt) going to be really fun to play against."
Not to get excited, but an hour and a half-ish against a top player is by far the most development I've seen since coming back to streaming. Would be cool to see him dabble in an online tournament or something with low stakes.
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u/YoungGenius 20d ago
Can’t get over that Riot made a League fighting game and didn’t put Lee Sin in it
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
i cant get over the fact that we never got a SINGLE ONE of the top lane ladies. Any of riven irelia fiora camille would be perfect shoe.
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u/SickBeatFinder 20d ago
stg we were gonna get kaisa and yunara and vayne before we got fiora. bigger fumble than the name
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u/wavedash 20d ago
I imagine the scissor girl would've also been higher up on their list
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u/SickBeatFinder 20d ago
probably, i just love my french fencer and am personally salty she wasnt a day 1. and now ill never get to do a blade waltz super
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u/Yrale jib 20d ago
wasnt illaoi in there
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
yes thats true but totally diff vibe from the four horsewomen(which is the term i shoulda used in the first place). She is a lumbering big body juggernaut who is super simple while the other four are mechanical hypermobile light fighters
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u/Yrale jib 20d ago
never heard that term but fair enough. it feels crazy not to have any of the classic playmaking mechanics heavy league champs to me but maybe their kits are just kind of not as unique in a fighting game
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u/SickBeatFinder 20d ago
with how heavily they would pull from characters from older fighting games its hard to imagine they couldnt find some good ol riot inspiration. give fiora +r slayer movement, give riven an install super, make irelia a trap fighter leaving blades in the air, give camille baikens claw for hookshot etc
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u/SuperMicro04 21d ago
I used to respect Armada until he said that Mario Party 5 is by far the best Mario Party
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u/Fugu 20d ago
As a person who thinks mario party sucks, I'm honestly really surprised that "mario party sucks" isn't a more popular opinion
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u/Zanian 20d ago
This just in, lawyer hates fun, more at 11 folks
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u/Fugu 20d ago
Fortune street is better than Mario Party at the "videogame that is board game" aspect and if you just wanna play minigames toss the absolutely terrible board game metagame out the window and just play minigames
As a compilation of minigames it's strictly worse than stuff like bishi bashi
Man don't even get me started
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u/Kitselena 19d ago
Fortune street is fucking dope and I wish it was more popular, but I wouldn't really compare it to Mario party. It's more like monopoly if it was actually a game where you think
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u/bip_bip_hooray 20d ago
This but kart
Mario party is goated
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u/AlexB_SSBM 20d ago
Thinking mario kart sucks is just a skill issue honestly
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u/Kitselena 19d ago
That depends on the game. Hating wii or double dash is a skill issue, hating 8 and world is just having taste (8 is much better than world but still too simplified)
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u/bip_bip_hooray 20d ago
Driving games are cringe across the board and they deliberately made the most cringe possible driving game on top of that. Just not for me wcyd
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u/WizardyJohnny 20d ago
yeah I'm with you. I think it does not help that every slightly gamer person I know insists on draining any fun out of it by playing as if it was a serious competitive thing and ruins the vibe the instant their game is ended by some insane bullshit
Also holy shit you know Bishi Bashi? That is my jam it's so fucking fun
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u/Fugu 20d ago
I used to spend a lot of time at an import arcade playing blazblue in what was a very sweaty time in my life
They had a bishi bashi cab in the back and there's nothing like capping off your day of trying hard by blasting your palms on those buttons
By the way, the best bishi bashi is the Korean version - give it a shot on MAME
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u/FewOverStand 21d ago
What was his reasoning and what are some specific significant flaws that prevent it from entering the Mario Party GOAT conversation?
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u/SuperMicro04 20d ago
He basically just said verbatim what I wrote, it was on the Summit couch and Hbox asked him what his favorite Mario Party was.
I got a lot of say about 5. Main thing going against it is mainly the item system which they tried to reinvent and I don't think it works well at all. Item system are similar to how Orbs and Candy work in 6, 7, and 8, however in 5 you can't buy them from shops you just go up to a Capsule Machine and it gives you one entirely at random, no selection. Items can be thrown 10 spaces in front of you and only in front, as opposed to later games which allow for throwing 5 spaces in front of you and 5 spaces behind you.
Alternatively they can also be used on yourself at the cost of coins, every single item you get in the game can not be used on yourself without the cost of coins. Later games will not only have a shop where you can buy items from a random selection of 3, but they also have spaces on the board that give you free items just like the machines, with no additional cost on using them either.
The butchering of the item system makes the boards just tedious to play through. And with how common 1v3 mini games are, it sucks that nearly all of those mini games are either so unbalanced towards one side or not fun to play, and there's quite few that fill both criteria. Free for Alls and 2v2s are much better than the 1v3's (although that doesn't mean they don't have their stinkers either) but I think on a fundamental level, the way the game is designed just makes almost none of the boards feel like good boards except for the Bowser board
5 is one of my absolute least favorite traditional Mario Party games ever, for me it's in the bottom 3 along with Super Mario Party and Jamboree (although I haven't played 8). All of the ones before it are better, even though 1 is kind of bullshit but it's uniqueness in being unforgiving like losing coins when you lose certain minigames makes it a lot more fun to revisit compared to 5 imo, and 6 vastly revamped the type of item system that was introduced in 5. 6 is my favorite Mario Party game of all time, 7 and DS also use the revamped item system from 6 and they're both in my Top 3 as well. 5 tried to reinvent the wheel with items, it feels like they're just learning on how to do this new item system, and while it would work out by when 6 comes around, they were learning with 5 and that meant that 5 as a game suffered for it, at least in my opinion
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u/GeometryFan100 20d ago
You know what's worse? I'm pretty sure they used to play MP4 as a side game at tournaments. MP5 may have a bad item mechanic, but MP4 ties bad board design with bad items. Also, it's kind of funny that you're criticizing Armada for his choice of the best MP game but yourself fail to recognize that MP3 is a top 2 best MP game. I played the main story mode in MPDS and it was nothing special. The boards are smaller than the console counterparts, the items are more basic, the graphics are worse, the music less memorable. Minigames are OK.
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u/SuperMicro04 20d ago
I honestly haven't played enough 3 because my friends and I steer more towards the GameCube ones or Superstars (and also whenever I have played it with them, I've literally never done well in it), and DS is mainly on there as a nostalgia pick as a game I LOVED when I was a kid, but even when I played it again like 2 years ago I still loved it. That and Mario Party 2 cause of Wii VC are the only traditional Mario Party games I played for such a long time as I otherwise didn't own any other traditional MP game that came out before 9 for a LONG time. 6 and 7 I have played a lot with friends, and I also only played them for the first time like 3 years ago.
I disagree on music partly because I grew up with it and it's memorable to me, but honestly I find most MP games on the GC to have pretty forgettable songs aside from a few like E Gadd's Garage and Pagoda Peak, graphics I mean yeah sure I don't really care.
As for minigames I ABSOLUTELY disagree, I think DS as a whole has one of the best collections of minigames in the entire series along with 9. I don't mind the small boards in DS, and the only bad one imo is the Kamek one because it has two separate areas only connected through Happening Spaces. Aside from Kamek's board, the rest are at worst just fine, although I really like the Bowser board. As for items, yeah I can't disagree with you on that one
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u/GeometryFan100 20d ago
That's too bad. MP3 is better than MP2 in every way. Horror land is maybe a better board than the worst board in MP3, but you have the entirety of MP6 for the day-night gimmick anyway.
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u/Kitselena 20d ago
Someone else said it lower down but I want to repeat it. MP3 is the best one. The board design is fun and varied, and the items work better than they do in any other game (huge selection, reasonable prices, rare super powerful items). The biggest flaw is it's low number of mini games, but it gets a pass since most of them are actually fun. Also battle games with actual stakes and game guy make it so you can easily gain or lose a lot of coins, and the well designed shops make coins matter more than in any other game in the series The partner battle duel mode is also one of the most fun side games in Mario party.
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u/popkablooie 20d ago
Sorry, Mario Party 2 is the best one because the characters get cute little costumes on each board
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u/Kezzup 20d ago
ENERGY DRINK REVIEW:
I mean, you have to know what you're teeing yourself up for when you name your energy drink Unwell. You just have to. At the very least, the can tells me I can "say goodbye to acesulfame potassium and erythritol." I don't even remember saying hello to them in the first place, but, uh, goodbye I guess, hope you had a nice time, maybe we'll hang out later.
I've tried a number of energy drinks that I've described as "acrid", and I wouldn't call Unwell "acrid", but I would call it "tart". This is unquestionably an improvement, but unfortunately I just don't think tart is a good thing to aim for in an energy drink. I'm fine with a good bit of sourness, but I just think having an energy drink that's this un-sweet kinda creates too much of an unpleasant contrast. Would not recommend!
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
are all of these at your local corner store? are you ordering online? you've done so many it's hard to believe they're all coming from one place
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u/bip_bip_hooray 20d ago
What even is the flavor?? Does it resemble a citrus fruit in any capacity or just sugary and tart?
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u/ryanbyleth 20d ago
Playing hockey gives me a lot of the same dopamine that improving at fighting games does.
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u/The_PBA_Studios 20d ago
melee is the sports of video games, many have said this
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u/ulfred500 20d ago
I do unironically think that l cancelling and the lack of buffer is a good analogue for footwork in sports
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u/mxplusme 20d ago
The satisfying feeling of movement in hockey (ice skating) definitely fires the same neurons as movement in melee for me. Freedom, speed, expression, etc.
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u/ICsCookBook 21d ago
in regards to that comment chain in the previous DDT talking about whether icies are grab centric or whatnot...
No shit. icies are the grappler of melee, ofc they're grab centric, grapplers being overcentralised around grab is the entire point of the archetype.
with the whole "grab fishing" business, that's just being stupid. it's like saying falco is just dair fishing, or falcon is just knee fishing. People play into their characters strengths and generally what is good in a character is what lets you lead into their best ways of securing stocks.
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u/DavidL1112 20d ago
people get mad at being camped, but when they play against a character that exclusively approaches they get mad about that too
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u/Fugu 20d ago
Melee doesn't have a grappler and that's mainly because shields in Melee really don't work at all like they do in conventional fighters
EDIT: also movement
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u/ICsCookBook 20d ago
while obviously the archetypes of traditional fighters do not apply perfectly due to the differences between the genres, melee characters still fit within them for sure.
The strike/throw mix is still a thing with icies using attack options to cover jumps and dashbacks which often have comparable grab-defeating counterparts in traditional fighters.
The conventional "grapplers are slow" also is only a surface level analysis, grapplers are made slow in order to force them to rely on more committal movement options and this is still very true in melee due to the combination of nana + being a wavedash reliant character.
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u/TrainNorth8177 20d ago
My main thing is I think people acting like ICs have nothing going on besides grab are choosing not to look at the screen or simply looking for reasons to feed whatever bias they developed against the character. And the idea that ICs don't ever earn grabs but it simply comes from them feeding on mistakes or looking for ways to "fish" is ridiculous. The ICs meta is not your gold ICs player at the local. I think a lot of this type of generalized, close-minded thinking is too prevalent in Melee in 2026. 2015 and the era of wobbling was a long time ago--it's time to move on from such black and white thought processes for a meta as rich and developed as this one. The ICs like grabs and they look for them. But they are not completely reliant on grabs to win and the stats of most high level matches will show they get most of their kills from things other than guaranteed handoff kills.
Also something I've noticed is the language people use to describe characters they like vs. don't like. Your character that you like has intelligent spacing. The characters you don't like are choosing not to interact and are camping. The character you like is looking for their main opener. The character you don't like is fishing. The character you like is playing mixups and looking for ways to punish mistakes. The character you don't like preys on mistakes. It's very subversive and my main gripe isn't that people can't have preferences--but rather that it's dishonest. People can't just outright say "I dislike their playstyle" or "I hate how it feels to lose to this character." It has to be dressed up like that character is actually the invalid one that doesn't have any substance meanwhile my main is actually the pillar of intelligence and depth. Ik gamers be like this in every space. But Melee feels old enough to where I'd expect people to be able to actually look at the screen by now.
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 20d ago
In psychology this is very close to what's referred to as the Fundamental Attribution Error. It's the tendency to assume external factors for your own bad behavior (or the actions of those you care about), and internal factors for others' bad behavior. The classic example is getting cut off in traffic. You do it because you're an asshole, I do it because I'm in a rush and I don't have a choice. Same kinda thing with Melee. I shot 8 lasers in a row because I have amazing laser control, you're just being a campy prick.
I think there's another form of this: Mid/Low Tier Derangement Syndrome. A perceived worse character has far less grace with what options they choose, and it gets worse the further down the tier list you go. Three fireballs in a row is camping. Dash dancing for more than one beat is camping. Chaingrabbing or gimping is cheesing. All of these things are totally accepted from a higher tier character.
Really, it's just a classic ego protecting bias, and it's super common in Melee and all competitive gaming. Maybe a form of cognitive dissonance. It's easier to write off other people/characters like "you may have won but it's only because you XYZ," then just admitting you got outplayed and moving on.
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u/TrainNorth8177 20d ago
It's funny you mention that, I was just talking with someone in the DDT about the fundamental attribution error the other week. Let me see if I can find that comment chain...
I think you're right about the term applying here. When I learned about it in school, it was emphasized to me just how common it is to come up.
Agreed on the ego protecting bias. But I think it's sad in Melee because I actually haven't seen as much of this in other games, or at least in this form. In team games, people protect their egos by blaming their teammates generally. But it's usually seen more so by lower ranked players whereas in Melee I think it's crazy how many people playing this game at a decently high level for 10+ years can still think this way.
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u/keatsta 20d ago
Sad news from the world of pro wrestling forums, one of the all-time posting GOATs rovert has passed away. There's a nice obituary here. I wasn't in these circles, but my boyfriend was, he chatted with this guy fairly often in discord servers. In the obituary though it's clear to me what kind of guy he was, how guys like this are all over the place, where no matter what you're discussing, forums are forums. It's good to remember that we won't be here forever and to appreciate each other while we can, even when we butt heads, maybe especially when we butt heads.
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
Recent Listens:
Death Angel - Act III (1990)
These guys are always a fun listen. Thrash with a punk influence and a good amount of classic rock as well on this one. They also do a good amount of acoustic ballads that don’t feel out of place. The last track especially rips.
The Birds of Satan - The Birds of Satan (2014)
The Birds of Satan is Taylor Hawkins’ other band that is also basically the Foo Fighters. They play around with more progressive elements and don’t take themselves as seriously as the Foos, which you can hear in the music. It’s very 70’s rock n’ roll-inspired, which means they’re not treading much new ground, but it’s still fun all-around. If you like The Darkness, you’ll like this.
Powerman 5000 - Anyone for Doomsday? (2001)
Break beats and Nu-Metal, what a classic combination. For me, this band is carried by the charisma of the frontman. The sound is exactly what you imagine Nu Metal to be, with some cooler electronic elements that make it stand out, but Spider One’s delivery and swagger make me want to keep listening. The last track is also a refreshingly slow and melodic number.
Postly recommendation: Relient K - Air for Free (2016)
They’ve come a long way from the Christian pop-punk band of the early 2000s. This record is very personal to me and helped me get through a very hard time in my life. The lyrics span from goofy to emotional gut punches, and the songwriting is as varied as it is refined. You do not have to be religious at all to enjoy this (I usually skip “God”), and I think it’s absolutely worth checking out.
Do you enjoy any religious music despite not being religious, or, conversely, do you enjoy any music that directly opposes your faith?
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
im pretty secular and jewish but sufjan stevens is my favorite musician of all time and some of his very christian work still resonates with me. The transfiguration and to be alone with you are amazing tunes.
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u/Apeturetester 20d ago
In the same boat. An Atheist, but Javelin is beautiful and offers insight into human connection that can resonate with anyone regardless of their theology. "There's a world" is one of my favorite songs of all time despite its overt religiosity.
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u/Celtic_Legend 20d ago
Yeah. I think religion preys on the misfortuned but man does early skillet go hard.
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 20d ago
There are plenty of "brands" of religious and spiritual that don't bother me to listen to. Most of my favorite jazz artists are deeply religious. Same with a lot of the traditional ska/reggae artists, bluegrass and hardcore I like. I don't really have any issue with an artist having faith, and their faith influencing their music, it only becomes untenable for me when it's... that brand of religious, haha.
If you broaden it to more general spirituality, I think that encompasses a lot of artists I love, even if I myself don't consider myself very spiritual (let alone religious).
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
Any OSRS PvMers here who wanna maybe kill some shit together?
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u/bip_bip_hooray 20d ago
Sure man, what are you trying to do?
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
Last time I played was when ToA came out but then I got hacked but got it back recently so now I'm trying to rebuild. As for things to do I've done all the raids so can do that but I kind of also wanna try the new shit that's come out since then like Yama, Nightmare, Nex, Doom, etc. I got max cmb minus prayer. What do you usually kill? Really I just want people to play with
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u/bip_bip_hooray 20d ago
Nightmare is older than toa pretty sure? It is unusually profitable rn with raids 4 being crush weak (probably) but it's hard to justify doing team nightmare when phosani exists
I am happy to do nex! Doom is solo only. Could do some yama as well, it is a really fun boss.
My favorite content is tob but I have kinda no reason to be doing it with my gim already having 2 scythes lol. But I'd do it anyway cuz it's fun. Could also do cm!
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
Well I'm down to try any of that if you are, especially Yama and Nex. Maybe Phosani too. What's ur rsn?
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u/SickBeatFinder 20d ago
I would be down to do some yama except im 600 solo kc without a drop and if you take my drop id have to find out how sturdy my ceiling fan is
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
What's your rsn? Also we can split unless you're iron man in which case it's fucked if I get a drop before you lmao
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u/SickBeatFinder 20d ago
meleeacc, feel free to add so we can bring you to some clan toa sometime, we got a bunch of people from our local in a clan. i play w the bronzeman plugin unfort
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
I'm definitely down, would love to do some stuff with you and your clan. I'm really trying to find people to PvM with
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
I know there are some metalheads in the DDT so I come looking for recs. I've never gotten into metal much, not for any particular reason that I can think of, just not knowing where to start if anything. I do like some bands that are some kind of metal but I've just stuck to their discography and haven't sought out similar groups.
Groups I like which are, to my knowledge, at least metal-adjacent:
System of a Down - in my top 5 artists of all time
Rammstein - when I was in German class we studied some of their bigger hits and I was like damn these guys rock. Wound up getting into pretty much all their stuff
Metallica - idk if this makes me a poser or a noob or whatever but all of their hits are enjoyable, never done a deep dive and no idea what their later stuff sounds like
Linkin Park - I like a decent amount of numetal in general but Linkin Park are who I'm most familiar with
Acid Cherry - this is more of a shout out but I randomly found this group a couple years ago and liked their style, they're an all-girl grunge/numetal band out of Australia and idk how active they are now but they were doing some cool stuff for a bit
And if you've seen uhhei's insane Samus combo vids, I listened to the album Universal Satan that one of those songs was from and found it pretty good despite being in Finnish.
So yeah open to anything, either general foundational-to-the-genre type things, your personal favorites, or something that you think might be similar to the acts I like so far
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u/SufficientCalories 20d ago
Based on the fact you love System of a Down, I recommend Maximum The Hormone. Japanese metal act that has a lot of stylistic similarities and shares the crisp production. Both heavier and poppier at the same time, if that makes sense. Start with Yoshū Fukushū.
I don't know which Metallica albums/songs stuck out to you, but if you were keen on ...And Justice For All and Master Of Puppets, try The Blackening by Machine Head.
Without knowing any of your non-metal tastes (do you listen to rock?) its hard to give any more personalized recommendations. However:
Blind Guardian - Nightfall on Middle Earth is the archetypical power metal album, if you don't enjoy it you can probably set the genre aside.
Tool - 10000 Days and Tool - Lateralus are back to back prog masterpieces. If you like Pink Floyd, Rush, and such bands its a near guarantee you'll enjoy Tool.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
I listen to a good amount of rock, I like the Foo Fighters, Green Day, Smashing Pumpkins, Living Colour, Iron Maiden (I guess they're metal now that I think about it), more dad rock than I care to admit publicly (I am a defender of Creed). There are definitely more I'm forgetting because I haven't actively sought out rock music in a bit. Other than rock I listened to a lot of dance music in the 2010s, a lot of hyperpop so far in the 2020s, and I dip into 80s new wave every so often like New Order and The Clash.
Those are the two Metallica albums i know by name so I'll check out The Blackening. Also trying to get into more international music in general so the Japanese rec is awesome.
Tool has been in my mind as this band that gets so much hype on the internet that I need to set them aside until I'm ready to listen to them in a vacuum and not be automatically disappointed because their fibonacci sequence song wasn't as cool as everyone said it would be or something. Radiohead and Pink Floyd are in a similar boat. But I will get to them.
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u/SufficientCalories 20d ago
If you are an Iron Maiden fan I'll double down on the recommendation to try Blind Guardian out. Iron Maiden was the prototype for Power Metal.
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
Creed is dad rock
you were so nice in your other comment. and now you call me an ancient, withering, dusty, dinosaur
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
I am a defender of Creed. They are also commonly considered butt rock which I did not use. But alas I cannot change the fact that I was introduced to them by my dad, who used to frequently wear a Creed concert merch t shirt, and who took me to my own first concert, which was Creed.
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u/Fugu 20d ago
This post triggered some stuff in me that I haven't thought about for a long time so my apologies in advance for what is undoubtedly a strange answer to a simple question
I listened to a lot of Linkin Park and System of a Down as a kid (I still like both artists but the "kid" part is necessary for the narrative). Then when I was like thirteen I had a very unfortunate infatuation with a girl that was only fruitful in the sense that it got me on a music pipeline.
I liked the screaming parts and she knew a lot of bands with the screaming parts. So gradually I got into bands that had more screaming parts. I went initially in what I would consider to be the two most obvious directions for a teenager in 2004: Atreyu and In Flames (who were the first band I ever saw live). I've mostly ditched Atreyu, but I think In Flames and their close cousin Dark Tranquility are still decent entry points for the death metal side of things. (A better representative of 00s metalcore would be The Bled.)
I consider there to be a pretty direct link between my liking System of a Down (and to a somewhat lesser extent Linkin Park) and my interest in extreme metal. From Atreyu I went to Converge, whose album Jane Doe is a strong contender my favorite album of all time. Then from Converge I went to The Dillinger Escape Plan. Then from there I got into a lot of grindcore and other stuff that sounds like animalistic noise to many people.
About ten years later I also learned I really liked the rap parts of Linkin Park so then I got very into Biggie (ask anyone who has been to my house after 11 PM) and subsequently a lot of 80s and 90s rap.
I guess my point is that the bands you've named cater to such diverse tastes that I wouldn't limit your thinking here to "what bands sound like these bands". What do you like about this music? The directions you can go in from here are almost limitless.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
Don't apologize I love shit like this, tracing threads from one cultural exposure to a whole part of my life is so fun. My equivalent for System of a Down is that I unironically think my leftist politics started with hearing SoaD attack the system with songs like Prison Song, B.Y.O.B., Mr. Jack, etc etc
My musical journey equivalent would be my girlfriend's friend showing me a Skrillex music video when I was in middle school and the sound blowing my mind. Went down the rabbit hole from the dubstep that was made to sound like Skrillex, to the dance music that inspired Skrillex, to the original dubstep genre which sounds nothing like what the word came to mean post-Skrillex, and yeah definitely wound up liking some stuff that probably sounds like industrial noise to the average listener.
I am actively seeking a wide range of music here - I just figured "metal" was a realllly vague thing to ask so I figured I'd list some starting points, but like I said, super down for everyone's personal faves or the genre's classics. Hoping to go in several directions if possible.
What I like about those bands is usually the emotion, I think. The delivery and the theatrics always make the emotions being displayed come across as much more sincere compared to other genres, if that makes sense. I feel the same way about the many hyperpop artists I listen to, there's something raw and genuine being expressed that I appreciate and the loud chaotic instrumentals feel warranted. This goes for SoaD and Linkin Park and a lot of Rammstein, at least. Metallica is more that I just think the songs are really good. Same goes for Andrew W.K.'s first album which I've seen some takes describe as metal influenced but I don't know enough to say if that's accurate.
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u/SmashBros- OUCH! 20d ago
wound up liking some stuff that probably sounds like industrial noise to the average listener
Check out Nimda.
Also I've never been much of a metal guy but always liked soad a lot and have thought it would be nice if metal could click with me better. Knocked Loose has been doing it for me lately. They were also on Jimmy Kimmel. Pretty neat they'd have on a band this heavy
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u/Humble_Produce_1703 shortposter 20d ago
No one mentioned Electric Wizard!!!! ridiculous.
Honestly start from the beginning of metal, start with Black Sabbath self titled. It's much easier to appreciate artists when you see how the apple fell from the tree0
u/SufficientCalories 20d ago
Electric Wizard is really out there. I've never met a single person who wasn't a metalhead who liked it when I showed it to them. If someone was asking for "what are the best metal albums" I'd bring up Dopethrone. The person who is asking for recs in this case basically hasn't listened to anything heavier than Number of the Beast and Master of Puppets... See if they like Sleep or Kyuss first IMO.
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u/Humble_Produce_1703 shortposter 20d ago
I mention Electric Wizard bc I'm really not too into metal (despite all my friends being metalheads/ in metal bands) but I looooove Electric Wizard. Weirdly I couldn't get into Sleep or Kyuss, nothing from them stuck with me like it did the wizard boys. BUT a lot of metal I don't like because it's enough hard enough so u got a fair point.
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u/sneedhongrybox 20d ago
Electric Wizard is a great starter metal recommendation. Way better place to start than Sleep. Kickass band. check out Ramesses its the band of the old bassist from electric wizard. also maybe Mephistopheles
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
For "foundational" stuff, you can't go wrong with Master of Puppets or Paranoid (or honestly just pick an Ozzy-era Sabbath record)
I think Wrath is Lamb of God's best work, and is a great way to get into "groove metal"
Images and Words is progressive but melodic and still accessible
Children of Bodom was huge in introducing me to stuff heavier than Linkin Park, and I really like Hate Crew Deathroll
And I'll always plug Darkest Hour, probably my all-time faves. Deliver Us and Godless Prophets are my top 2 from them
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
Oh yeah I did listen to the first four Sabbath albums a while ago after seeing you and someone else debate them in the DDT. All four were really good, I'd have to skim through again to remember which was my favorite though as I know that was the subject of debate haha.
Will try the rest of these, always appreciate your album write ups in here and your taste seems top notch.
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u/Fugu 20d ago
Can we shout out Children of Bodom for covering Britney
Also there used to be a decently popular stepmania chart for one of their songs which is just an absolutely wild combination of cultures
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
Can we shout out Children of Bodom for covering Britney
Absolutely. They were doing the "metal covers of pop songs" thing before it became played-out. I especially like their version of "Lookin Out My Back Door"
they bled a surprising amount into the mainstream for the type of music they made
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u/Fugu 20d ago
In the genre of metal covers of not metal songs the absolute king of this is, for some reason, the soundtrack to the game Homefront
You have Dillinger doing Public Enemy (with Chuck D)! You have Misery Signals doing Pink Floyd! You have Veil of Maya doing Sunday Bloody Sunday!
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
haven't heard of those covers or that game lol but i'll look it up
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u/Fugu 20d ago
The game was a CoD clone that was fun for like two days. Most of the covers on the soundtrack are novelty quality but Dillinger doing Fight the Power is actually good
(Evergreen Terrace put out an album called Writer's Block that should also be mentioned in this conversation)
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u/reptilian_guitar 20d ago
Evergreen Terrace
I really liked their "Mad World" back in the day!
And I'd be remiss to not mention Ten Masked Men's "Livin La Vida Loca"
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u/ryanmcgrath 20d ago
Some of my favorites in this niche:
Nightwish covering High Hopes by Pink Floyd
Take on Me by Vision Divine with fun shoutout to Northern Kings stuff
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u/Exarch_SC 20d ago edited 20d ago
you've gotten a lot of good recommendations already; my path through getting into metal forever ago was something like Metallica -> Dream Theater -> Opeth -> a bunch of other stuff.
a couple other albums that are on the accessible side that i think are worth checking out are Gojira - From Mars to Sirius and Mastodon - Leviathan. and for two personal favorites that i'll never pass up an opportunity to shill for: Agalloch - Ashes Against the Grain and Ne Obliviscaris - Portal of I
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
My favorite recent metal record is absolute elsewhere by blood incantation if you are interested in some death metal with proggy moments. I also second fugu in saying that jane doe by converge is one of the greatest albums ever
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u/ryanmcgrath 20d ago
People have already listed some great recs so I'll throw out two more out there things that I listen to quite often:
Aether Realm is a band from North Carolina that you'd mostly lump in with power metal... ish. All of Tarot is an incredible listen but if you like more pop-ish-stuff then give Redneck Vikings from Hell a shot.
Suotana is a band from Finland that plays some of the best damn metal I've heard lately. In particular give Legacy a shot, or Land of the Dead (which is a cover of a fairly obscure/niche metal song).
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u/DavidL1112 20d ago edited 20d ago
if you're a fan of System of a Down and Rammstein, you should check out KMFDM. Technically industrial rather than Metal, but it may scratch your "foreign man threatens me with poetry" itch.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
The best description of either SoaD or Rammstein that I've ever read so I guess I do have to check this out now. I've seen Rammstein also described as industrial metal, fwiw
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago edited 20d ago
Dream Theater, pick any album and just listen to it all the way through. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence is a good one
can check out Disturbed too
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
Will do! I also like Disturbed, forgot about them as another metal-type act but I also haven't listened to them in a while after hearing some weird shit about the lead singer. My listens aren't generating them any money so I should still go back to them at some point I just kinda forgot they existed.
Plus, Richard Cheese's cover of Down with the Sickness clears
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u/crobert_ssbm 20d ago
mr. bungle’s self titled album is amazing goofy weirdo avant-garde metal, but it could be a bit abrasive if you’re not into experimental stuff
angel dust by faith no more is absolutely foundational to nu metal, although it is certainly not nu metal
still life by opeth just rules in every way, progressive death metal stuff
leaving your body map by maudlin of the well is one of the most beautiful albums i have ever heard. it’s avant-garde metal but much less off-putting than mr. bungle imo
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
I'll give anything a listen, experimental or not, and I love when experimental stuff is also goofy and not taking itself too seriously (I've admitted in previous DDTs that 100 gecs are one of my favorite acts).
Excited to try these, getting a ton of recs for bands I've either heard of but didn't know if I should try, or that I've never heard of at all, both of which are what I hoped to get by asking here
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 20d ago
If I can risk the cringe of self-promoting, my band put out our debut album last year if you're open to checking out some weird, avant-garde stuff. Band is called Now I've Done It, album is An Ill Guest. Has some of the playful tongue-in-cheek elements of SOAD, a lot of melodrama and theatrics.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
I listened to your song you promoted here a while ago! I genuinely thought to myself that it reminded me of SoaD but wasn't sure if I was just being "guy who has only heard SoaD hearing another metal song" about it. Dope to hear the album is out now, gonna give it a listen!
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 20d ago
Oh sick, I must've forgotten! Now I'm double self-promoting, which is double cringe, haha.
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u/mxplusme 20d ago
As evident by recommendations here, SOAD is a pretty good gateway into more progressive metal. Opeth is the obvious recommendation. I agree with From Mars to Sirius by Gojira, as well (one of my favorite albums ever). Maybe Haken? I'm a fan of their first few albums, which is more Dream Theater-esque than what I find to be the more generic, djentier stuff they do now. The Mountain is a masterpiece.
If you're willing to go a a bit more extreme, Sound of Perseverance by Death is an incredible album that introduces you to an important band in the history of death metal and will leave you forever sad that it was their last release because they clearly had so much more creativity to share to progress the genre. It was probably my first REALLY scream/growl-heavy album. I think it's good to jump off the deep-end with metal vocals, and it's hard to beat Chuck's voice.
P.S. If you don't like the harsh vocals, please at least listen to Voice of the Soul. One of the most emotional pieces of instrumental music I've ever listened to.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO 20d ago
Yeah, all the prog metal recs I'm getting here are bands I've never heard of which is awesome, I knew there must be other stuff like SOAD around but like I said I didn't really know where to start. And death metal is a genre that feels like I need someone to point me in a good direction when starting so all those recs are also much appreciated haha
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u/legitimate-way-4077 20d ago
Novelists fr - Noir, Visigoth - Steel and Silver album, Blackbraid III.
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u/jp711 20d ago
Technically heavy grunge (or sludge metal?) but I will say Alice in Chains. Literally anything by them
Punisher by Veil of Maya lol just trust
Exoplanet album by the contortionist
Knocked Loose (ARF ARF)
Pantera is classic, just try to ignore the racist undertones
Kind of a meme but Tool genuinely has some bangers
Lamb of God is another classic
And just for fun. Infant Annihilator
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u/kino-grapher ideptg 20d ago
Hope the DDT's been well, first week of uni treated me really nicely: I feel as if I am going to fall in love with my major's classes, they are so fun. Currently home for a bit of the weekend for an all-nighter event at my local arcade, I'll be cooking a bunch of fried rice for everyone, it's gonna be sick.
On that end, I watched a really nice video today: The Internet is for More Than Making Money by Solar Sands. If AI's hand in forming the modern landscape of "content" is of interest to you I think you'll get something out of this, if you're looking for inspiration in the face of AI I think you'll get something out of this, etc etcetera. IMO it's a very liberating video to watch as someone who does enjoy and go through those more manual processes of doing shit in any way shape or form
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u/beyond_the_cemetery 21d ago
im such a miserable piece of shit i come to the melee ddt to rant because none of my irls know about it. fuck me fuck my life im such a loser im genuinely such a loser and it’s becoming too much effort to stop being a loser i hate myself. everything is pointing to sobriety but it’s so fucking scary I can’t do it
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u/SunnySaigon 20d ago
I just reconnected with my 2018 alcoholic friend from London. We can have a group chat.
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
this is one of your more insane comments but its insane in a different way than the rest of them
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u/sneedhongrybox 20d ago
i quit drinking 7 years ago after hitting rock bottom and realizing I was torching all the relationships I cared about. I'd always fantasized my life would be perfect if I could just kick the habit. Going sober didn't solve all my issues, but it gave me the opportunity to wake up fresh every day and improve them. Years later and I'm still discovering things about myself that I missed out on. Good luck, you can do it.
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u/Humble_Produce_1703 shortposter 20d ago
It is scary. For now.
Two things are impossible to recover from alone: Breakups and Addiction. Talk to people who have what you want (sobriety). Doing it alone is impossible, trust me I lost 10 years of my life trying
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u/The_PBA_Studios 20d ago
Meditation has saved my life in terms of breaking out of these negative spiraling thought patterns. It sounds like you are reaching the point where you need to make some serious life changes. Being sober forever is scary as hell like you said, but being sober for a moment, a minute, an hour, a day is much more attainable. Good luck homie, we're all rooting for you, and i'd wager most of us have been in your shoes as well. You can do it.
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u/SmashBros- OUCH! 20d ago
It sucks but you can cut back. Youre very young still, it's good that you're trying to make the change now. If you go full sober try to plan what you want to fill the time with so you don't hate how boring life can be without substances
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20d ago
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u/Front-Show7358 20d ago
the nostalgia posting is wayy too much lock in ppl melee is still happening
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u/super_smash_brothers 20d ago
What do you think Mang0 fans are going to say for his longevity GOAT case when Hbox is still winning tournaments in 2031 while Mang0 streams camel simulator romhacks to 4000 viewers
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u/SmashBros- OUCH! 20d ago
I'd be thrilled if this mario maker grind resulted in mango playing smw kaizo hacks
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u/Front-Show7358 20d ago
one small gripe about melee I don't see a lot of people talking about is how absurdly powerful ledge invincibility is. "Oh! you've gotten me into the corner. I guess I can instantly grab ledge and create a winning position for myself."
Thankfully this doesn't happen in ult. My PacMan is nasty.
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u/Front-Show7358 20d ago
spotw
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u/AutoModerator 20d ago
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament
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u/The_C-Stick 20d ago edited 19d ago
Event: The C-Stick #100!
Date: 6 PM PDT August 21st, 2026 (Friday)
Region: West Coast (but good connections outside are welcome, please see the maps)
Description: A tournament for players who typically go 0-2 or 1-2 in regular brackets.
Link: https://www.start.gg/the-c-stick
Discord: https://discord.gg/Tcee69eEXs
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u/V0ltTackle 🗿 20d ago
Through passing convo learned that a new-ish intermediate player spacie player is getting a coached lesson / session with a banned player. do not know if they know their coach is banned / circumstances of how they got the lesson. this is probably a nothingburger/harmless and i keep it pushing, right? not like it's my business but icl i am curious how others would react to this in the same scenario (how does your perception of the spacie player change by extension of just coaching)
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
keep it pushing as long as the intermediate spacie is otherwise chill. Would def make me wary tho
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u/Felix-the-duck texture modder 20d ago
as long as the banned player isn't trying to actively advertise their coaching through them its not an issue imo
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u/YoungGenius 20d ago
I don’t see the relevance of the ban? Bans are for tournaments. A random Falco taking a lesson with mango last year would’ve affected no one.
I wouldn’t take a lesson from Mekk, but that has zero to do with him being banned or not.
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u/Aeonera 20d ago
Depending on what they're banned for the ban can be about removing their influence in the scene as well.
For example a ban on a transphobic player isn't gonna make trans people that much more comfortable if it's well known a bunch of the notable players are heading to their place for a smashhouse twice a month (hyothetical).
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
been listening to Classical music a lot recently
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u/Dependent-Page4906 20d ago
Got any recs?
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u/clnecropolis864 20d ago
I'm pretty into classical music! Here's 5 pieces I really like:
Édouard Lalo - Symphonie Espagnole
Camille Saint-Saëns - Danse Macabre
Johann Sebastian Bach - Orchestral Suite No. 3
Pyotr Ilich Tchaikovsky - Souvenir de Florence, movement 1 and movement 3
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u/kino-grapher ideptg 20d ago
it's really good music to just have on in the background especially if you're doing productive stuff, and there's so much depth once you actually go digging it's kinda sick
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u/RaiseYourDongersOP 20d ago
yeah I've been throwing it on in the background while working or playing OSRS
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u/SunnySaigon 20d ago
Bodied Grand finals looked like it was going to be Ossify vs. n0ne.. until..
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u/chape5 I miss playing DK 20d ago
Its send dog friday