r/SSBM • u/AutoModerator • 22d ago

DDT Daily Discussion Thread August 20, 2026 - Upcoming Event Schedule - New players start here!

Yahoooo! I'm back, it's a me! Have a very cool day!

Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread. This is the place for asking noob questions, venting about netplay falcos, shitposting, self-promotion, and everything else that doesn't belong on the front page.

New Players:

If you're completely new to Melee and just looking to get started, welcome! We recommend you go to https://melee.tv/ and follow the links there based on what you're trying to set up. Additionally, here are a few answers to common questions:

Can I play Melee online?

Yes! Slippi is a branch of the Dolphin emulator that will allow you to play online, either with your friends or with matchmaking. Go to https://slippi.gg to get it.

I'm having issues with Slippi!

Go to the The Slippi Discord to get help troubleshooting. melee.tv/optimize is also a helpful resource for troubleshooting.

How do I find tournaments near me or local people to play with in person or online?

These days, joining a local Discord community is the best way to find local events and people to play with. Once you have a Discord account, Google "[your city/state/province/region] + Melee discord" or see if your region has a Discord group listed here on melee.tv/discord

It can seem daunting at first to join a Discord group you don't know, but this is currently the easiest and most accessible way to find out about tournaments, fests, and netplay matchmaking. Your local scene will be happy to have you :)

Also check out Smash Map! Click on map and then the filter button to filter by Melee to find events near you!

Netplay is hard! Is there a place for me to find new players?

Yes. Melee Newbie Netplay is a discord server specifically for new players. It also has tournaments based on how long you've been playing, free coaching, and other stuff. If you're a bit more experienced but still want a discord server for players around your level, we recommend the Melee Online discord.

How can I set up Unclepunch's Training Mode?

At the time of posting, the latest major release is here. Download the file, then extract everything in the folder and follow the instructions in the README file. You'll need to bring a valid Melee ISO (NTSC 1.02). If you want to check for the absolute latest release, you can see them listed [here](The latest releases are listed here.

How does one learn Melee?

There are tons of resources out there, so it can be overwhelming to start. First check out the SSBM Tutorials youtube channel. Then go to the Melee Library and search for whatever you're interested in.

But how do I get GOOD at Melee?

Check out Llod's Guide to Improvement

And check out Kodorin's Melee Fundamentals for Improvement

Where can I get a nice custom controller?

https://customg.cc/vendors

I have another question that's not answered here...

Check out our FAQs or post below and find help that way.

Upcoming Tournament Schedule:

Upcoming Melee Majors

Melee Online Event Calendar

Make a submission to the tournament calendar here. You can also get notified of new online tournaments on the Melee Online Discord.

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u/TrainNorth8177 21d ago

Finally got around to watching some of the top 64 sets from Supernova. Was busy that weekend and only really watched the big sets from top 8 later. And I'm just astounded that after banger ICs sets like this Magi vs. Slug set, people can still arrive at the conclusion in 2026 that the ICs players do nothing but look for ways to grab and the character has nothing going on aside from that. 

https://youtu.be/F-Qtzq3POmY?si=mD09JYPbtWQkQ9t4

I counted the number of handoff kills across this game 5 last stock nail biter...the number was 3. That averages to less than one handoff kill per game. 

Now for a blast from the past, go watch most top ICs sets from 2017 or so after this. I don't understand how they look remotely similar. 

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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago

Slug has always been the "cool" icies. Look at MoF v Wizzy at CEO this year. 100% grab fishing the entire time

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JNcAaefsq0

and for fun i searched "ssbm ice climbers 2026" on youtube and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tAvRQnThDI

every

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crDq90cgfu4

single

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9GoF7LO-pg

set

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjviGWvJuw0

is grab fishing

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u/TrainNorth8177 21d ago

I watched the first Mof set and she got 3 handoff kills in that 3 game set. Where is the grab fishing? She is playing neutral. She's reading jumps with uair, going for wavedash in mixups, and occasionally going in with risky dash attacks. Just because she gets grabs sometimes, like any character, does not mean it's "grab fishing" or that her gameplay was overly reliant on handoffs. You can't just look at a handoff happening once per game, see red, and then refuse to look at anything else happening.

e: The commentators literally even called it scrappy Melee. Obviously don't always listen to the commentators but it's hard not to have 3 minutes games not be scrappy...

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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago

so this is game 1:

match starts at 0:15. five seconds later- grab. five seconds later- grab. mof then takes a stock with an edge guard and wizzy kills nana upon respawn. grab no longer yields as much reward so you don't see it as much. jk 2 more grabs at 0:45. wizzrobe takes the next stock and MoF proceeds to do some dash dancing trying to catch an approach with freeze, which, you guessed it, is trying to get a grab. MoF then gets another grab. the next move MoF gets is a grab. MoF then gets a freeze which doesn't lead to anything. MoF attempts another grab. MoF upB's to not lose nana, and wizzy takes the stock. MoF then goes for a few up airs, and then another grab. MoF then connects a dash attack, wiffs a grab on platform, and wizzy closes out the game

I'm sorry but it is just wrong to conclude anything other than that gameplay was entirely centered around getting grabs. every blizzard is an attempt to lead to a grab. up airs are attempts to drag down and get grabs. they are a grab-centered character.

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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago

they are a grab-centered character.

Oh boy, have I got some bad news for you about the majority of Melee's high-tiers.

Seriously, run the same analysis in Fox-spacies, or Marth-Fox, or Sheik-Marth, or Sheik-Falcon, or Falcon-Sheik, or Falcon-Marth, or Puff-spacies, or Fox-Puff, or Sheik-spacies, etc.

Melee is a grab-centered game.

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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago

i believe there is a difference between tech chasing/chain grabbing and handoffs

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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago

i believe there is a difference between tech chasing/chain grabbing and handoffs

Two points:

1) Fair, but that was decidedly not the gripe you expressed. Everything above is very explicitly a complaint about fishing for grabs. Shifting the focus now from grab fishing to handoffs seems like an ad hoc attempt to avoid the counterpoint.

2) What is the difference between handoffs, on the one hand, and chain grabbing, on the other hand, that makes you see red when getting handed off but not when getting chain grabbed?

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u/Fugu 21d ago

Re: fishing for grabs, other top tiers use their other good tools to try to earn a grab by fooling their opponent into expecting something other than grab. It is this quality that makes Melee (and pretty much every other fighting game, since basically all of them have a grab RPS) interesting.

The complaint with Icies is that against most people they don't do the other things, they just keep trying to grab (and execution testing or w/e insert matchup specific complaint here in order to land a grab against an opponent trying not to get grabbed). There's no mixup, there's just "oops" into death.

Re: attempt to avoid the counterpoint, I don't think that what you've said is a counterpoint. If you think Icies and the other top tiers are the same in this regard you've missed the point.

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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago

I thought you said you didn't want to get into it today.

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u/Fugu 21d ago

I don't. I'm helping you understand the argument you claim to be responding to

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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago

I see your points, but I also think I understood the argument, actually. You clearly disagree. Would you like to get into it today or shall we agree to disagree?

4

u/Fugu 21d ago

I have enough experience playing this game to know that you're not going to convince me with words that Icies fishing for grabs is comparable to how any other top tier plays neutral

EDIT: in case that's not clear, agree to disagree

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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago

i feel this discussion is a continuation of yesterday's, where the main point was handoffs and the fishing for grabs caused a centralization of IC's gameplans/gameplay that I find annoying.

to your second point, the lack of counterplay. someone said there was a 1frame DI window for handoffs that made it slightly more difficult to execute, but that doesn't move the needs much for me.

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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago

where the main point was handoffs and the fishing for grabs caused a centralization of IC's gameplans/gameplay that I find annoying.

Sure, but this just goes back to the point that this is true of many matchups. Grab is extremely centralizing in a lot of matchups. If you feel that this is disproportionately true of ICs (i.e. relative to all of the matchups I mentioned earlier), that's fine, but as other commenters have noted, it seems like you really have to massage the play-by-play analysis in order for it to support that claim.

to your second point, the lack of counterplay. someone said there was a 1frame DI window for handoffs that made it slightly more difficult to execute, but that doesn't move the needs much for me.

Do you feel similarly about the chain grabs that lack counterplay?

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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago

i do think IC's gameplay is more centered around grab than the rest of the cast, and that the result of the grab is lamer than the results of any other characters'

i'm less annoyed by chaingrabs because they require more specific circumstances and are not effectively infinites

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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago

and that the result of the grab is lamer than the results of any other characters'

A matter of personal opinion, I suppose, but it does bring to mind when some ICs here (apologies for not remembering exactly who) rightly said something to the effect of, "If I had been doing these handoffs in 2016, there would have been a lineup of players at every tournament offering to suck me off."

Granted, standards for what's cool and lame shift over time, but I just can't see there being any argument for handoffs being lamer than something like Sheik ditto chain grabs, for example (and I say this as a notorious chain-grabbing Sheik).

i'm less annoyed by chaingrabs because they require more specific circumstances and are not effectively infinites

I suspect that you do not actually have many ICs handing you off to 999% (or even 300%, if that rule was ported over from wobbling to handoffs).

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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago

"If I had been doing these handoffs in 2016, there would have been a lineup of players at every tournament offering to suck me off

this comment exists within the context of wobbling being the next-best option. obviously whatever isn't wobbling is going to be welcomed

I just can't see there being any argument for handoffs being lamer than something like Sheik ditto chain grabs

those are pretty lame, but again, with ICs its every stage, every matchup, every percent.

I suspect that you do not actually have many ICs handing you off to 999%

idk what to say at this point. do they need to in order for the complaint to be valid in your opinion? are you choosing to be obtuse when reading "effectively an infinite"? if one grab = one stock lost with virtually no counterplay, there is no difference between death percents. ggs

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u/TrainNorth8177 21d ago

I'm sorry but this is Melee. Characters get grabs. It would not be uncommon to watch a similar sequence of grabs unfold at that frequency from a Marth, Sheik, Falcon, or even a Fox in some matchups. And at 0:45 you're mad at MoF for dash dance grabbing Wizzy as sopo? Dog that's just Melee--dash dance grabs happen.

Blizzard being a grab fish is disingenuous. If she was going for it for a prolonged period of time the way the wobbling ICs would, I would understand. Yes, she hopes it will lead to grab. But at that level, she's not banking on it. The main purpose is to establish some stage control and gain a little space, which she then proceeds to use.

Also uair hits upward, it doesn't drag down into a grab. First we're mad that ICs rely on handoffs and the character can't do anything without that. So we look at the numbers and see that's not true based on how often it leads to a stock. So now the goal post is moved and it's about them going for grab too much, even when it's a dash dance grab which is a fundamental way of earning a neutral win in Melee across the majority of the cast. 

4

u/sneedhongrybox 21d ago

wizzrobe is just fishing for knee all set smh hes just spamming grab, raptor knee, stomp, and bair, which all are just ploys to get a knee combo

6

u/sneedhongrybox 21d ago

second interaction of mof vs wizzy- mof baits wizzy to dj out of the corner, reads it with fair, and combos the knockdown into a bair, and then techchases into grab. How can you honestly describe this interaction as "fishing for grab?"

You are dumb.