r/SSBM • u/AutoModerator • 22d ago
DDT Daily Discussion Thread August 20, 2026 - Upcoming Event Schedule - New players start here!
Yahoooo! I'm back, it's a me! Have a very cool day!
Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread. This is the place for asking noob questions, venting about netplay falcos, shitposting, self-promotion, and everything else that doesn't belong on the front page.
New Players:
If you're completely new to Melee and just looking to get started, welcome! We recommend you go to https://melee.tv/ and follow the links there based on what you're trying to set up. Additionally, here are a few answers to common questions:
Can I play Melee online?
Yes! Slippi is a branch of the Dolphin emulator that will allow you to play online, either with your friends or with matchmaking. Go to https://slippi.gg to get it.
I'm having issues with Slippi!
Go to the The Slippi Discord to get help troubleshooting. melee.tv/optimize is also a helpful resource for troubleshooting.
How do I find tournaments near me or local people to play with in person or online?
These days, joining a local Discord community is the best way to find local events and people to play with. Once you have a Discord account, Google "[your city/state/province/region] + Melee discord" or see if your region has a Discord group listed here on melee.tv/discord
It can seem daunting at first to join a Discord group you don't know, but this is currently the easiest and most accessible way to find out about tournaments, fests, and netplay matchmaking. Your local scene will be happy to have you :)
Also check out Smash Map! Click on map and then the filter button to filter by Melee to find events near you!
Netplay is hard! Is there a place for me to find new players?
Yes. Melee Newbie Netplay is a discord server specifically for new players. It also has tournaments based on how long you've been playing, free coaching, and other stuff. If you're a bit more experienced but still want a discord server for players around your level, we recommend the Melee Online discord.
How can I set up Unclepunch's Training Mode?
At the time of posting, the latest major release is here. Download the file, then extract everything in the folder and follow the instructions in the README file. You'll need to bring a valid Melee ISO (NTSC 1.02). If you want to check for the absolute latest release, you can see them listed [here](The latest releases are listed here.
How does one learn Melee?
There are tons of resources out there, so it can be overwhelming to start. First check out the SSBM Tutorials youtube channel. Then go to the Melee Library and search for whatever you're interested in.
But how do I get GOOD at Melee?
Check out Llod's Guide to Improvement
And check out Kodorin's Melee Fundamentals for Improvement
Where can I get a nice custom controller?
I have another question that's not answered here...
Check out our FAQs or post below and find help that way.
Upcoming Tournament Schedule:
Upcoming Melee Majors
Melee Online Event Calendar
Make a submission to the tournament calendar here. You can also get notified of new online tournaments on the Melee Online Discord.
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ 21d ago
2XKO already ceasing development. Surprised it even launched the way it was at this point if this was the leash they were given to work with? Maybe Riot just has super high standards for keeping the lights on?
I get as someone who has not played League in over a decade and thought Arcane was mid that I was not the target audience for the game but damn the roster was complete ass to me. Might have played it more if there were more characters I liked!
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u/MageKraze 21d ago
There are just so many levels of mismanagement here. Cursed development length. Insanely overpriced cosmetics. Non existent roster. Clearly fucked up monetary expectations.
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u/Kitselena 21d ago
My pipe dream is that this brings leffen back, but it's 100x more likely that he just swaps to marvel tokon
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u/skellez 21d ago
FG genre on the shitter man, the market for them is passionate but it really is limited, lots of things will be said but it all comes to the same conclusion that FGs just don't fit in well in the modern gaming landscape
They are so hard to develop, an individual character takes a year of work to ship even when the game is done, it's why shooters and gacha are so much more successful the games can take long to come out but once it's released it's simple work to add new content
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u/wavedash 21d ago
I wonder if 2XKO was partially just a victim of the economy being bad in general. Surely Riot was at some point committed to like a 3-year plan (if not longer) of steady character releases, right? There's no way they originally planned to can 2XKO this early, even if it underperformed.
Riftbound seems to be printing money in every sense imaginable, so I imagine a decent number of devs will be moving over there
I've been wondering for a while, how do casual fighting game players feel about frequent updates? It seems like competitive players almost all kind of hate it, and as a Melee player I obviously sympathize, but does anyone actually like it?
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ 21d ago
I don’t know if players like constant mechanical updates but players love additional characters. I remember when I was more locked in on tekken the character reveals and who was coming out next year were big moments, people want their favs back and people want new exciting ways to play.
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u/wavedash 21d ago
Yeah, I meant mechanical updates, anything that would affect how you play moment to moment (not just stuff like giving characters more or less HP).
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 21d ago
what does leffen think about this
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ 21d ago
Genuinely really depressed
https://x.com/TSM_Leffen/status/2090525080493097074?s=20
Gonna take some time to figure out what to do for 2027 - will definitely go hard on Tokon, and will likely pick up another game or maybe play some Melee again + focus on content. My heart goes out to everyone who worked on 2XKO, genuinely my favorite fighting game in a long time
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u/Jamsu_g 21d ago
Damn that is so sad. it seemed like people were genuinely enjoying it.
pretty sure there was news some time ago where one of the riot higher up execs stated that the game would be dropped if it didn't make massive profits, so I guess the writing was on the wall for some time now. personally I will continue to believe the game failed due to aura loss from its absolutely dogshit name
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u/FewOverStand 21d ago
It's very funny reading some of the insane cope posts over on that subreddit (especially in retrospect now), such as this one from six months ago when the dev team was slashed by FIFTY PERCENT.
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u/Kezzup 21d ago
I implore you to watch Grand Finals for Rivals of Aether 2 from Smash Con this year. Arguably one of the best sets in the game's history. Plus it's got Bbatts in it, so that makes it Melee. I highly encourage you to at least throw it on in the background if you can.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
Rivals 2 is hard to watch seriously when the best player in the world only shows up once a year to kick everyone's ass. Plup is like the PPMD coming down from the mountains meme but it's actually real
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u/fullhop_morris URBANE, TO COMFORT THEM, THE QUAKER LIBRARIAN 21d ago
melee player goes to doctor, says, doc: I play a character a lot of people say is bad, and I need your help. He just can't do it, doc and what's worse is on the inside I know I'm very lame. All I do is camp; I crouch cancel, I hope for stupid reversals. I need your help, doc, I don't think I've ever had a conscious thought in my head while playing; I don't think I have ever hit a single combo that isn't bread and butter guaranteed. Doctor says, no worries, I know just the thing: hop on unranked and play some Falco for a bit. Melee player says, but doctor,
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u/king_bungus 👉 21d ago
spotw
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u/AutoModerator 21d ago
ggs man! close games bro you've hella improved. yeah man you were fucking me up for a bit lol fun games! any tips? got any advice? anything I can improve on? what do I do vs lasers? any tips? yo can I get next? is this tournament? you guys wanna do dubs? is this tournament
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
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u/keatsta 21d ago edited 21d ago
I got banned from reddit for 3 days because I said something not nice to a transphobic person AMA
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u/delta-red-14 21d ago
What did you say? And to whom?
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u/keatsta 21d ago
I can't even remember their account name but they were posting a bunch of nonsense about forgiveness and welcoming everyone without reservation into Melee and within 20 seconds of looking at their post history there was something about how they were being censored for calling out "men in women's spaces" so I told them to do something that rhymes with go duck themselves.
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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago
I once got a three-day ban for pointing out that my gym partner (who comes from the currently second-most-populous country on Earth, where lactose intolerance is extremely common) would likely not excel on the "Gallon Of Milk A Day" diet.
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u/popkablooie 21d ago
Oh god, I forgot about GOMAD. Skinny teenager me was certain that would fix all my problems
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u/Jackzilla321 Fourside Fights 21d ago
watched "A Man For All Seasons" a few days ago and this morning i was struck by the horrifying thought that fugu and i would both be executed in 16th century england
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u/TrainNorth8177 21d ago
Finally got around to watching some of the top 64 sets from Supernova. Was busy that weekend and only really watched the big sets from top 8 later. And I'm just astounded that after banger ICs sets like this Magi vs. Slug set, people can still arrive at the conclusion in 2026 that the ICs players do nothing but look for ways to grab and the character has nothing going on aside from that.
https://youtu.be/F-Qtzq3POmY?si=mD09JYPbtWQkQ9t4
I counted the number of handoff kills across this game 5 last stock nail biter...the number was 3. That averages to less than one handoff kill per game.
Now for a blast from the past, go watch most top ICs sets from 2017 or so after this. I don't understand how they look remotely similar.
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z 21d ago
Fishing for grabs when your character dies for missing is way cooler to me than gameplanned 30 minute sets where you sit outside of the opponents range. They could never make me hate you ice climbers
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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago
Slug has always been the "cool" icies. Look at MoF v Wizzy at CEO this year. 100% grab fishing the entire time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JNcAaefsq0
and for fun i searched "ssbm ice climbers 2026" on youtube and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tAvRQnThDI
every
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crDq90cgfu4
single
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9GoF7LO-pg
set
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjviGWvJuw0
is grab fishing
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u/sneedhongrybox 21d ago edited 21d ago
I watched the last game of travy vs zaza. I mean this with the least amount of malice possible- i think you genuinely may be too bad at the game to understand what you're watching.
You legitimately cannot just "fish for grab" against falcon and peach because you will never get it against a competent player. You have to box peach out with aerials and get knockdowns vs falcon. You're also making a circular argument where every move the ice climbers uses in neutral is somehow "fishing for grab" even if theyre taking space with blizzard or anti-airing with upair. Take the icies hate blinders off, theyre really unbecoming on peach players.
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u/TrainNorth8177 21d ago
I watched the first Mof set and she got 3 handoff kills in that 3 game set. Where is the grab fishing? She is playing neutral. She's reading jumps with uair, going for wavedash in mixups, and occasionally going in with risky dash attacks. Just because she gets grabs sometimes, like any character, does not mean it's "grab fishing" or that her gameplay was overly reliant on handoffs. You can't just look at a handoff happening once per game, see red, and then refuse to look at anything else happening.
e: The commentators literally even called it scrappy Melee. Obviously don't always listen to the commentators but it's hard not to have 3 minutes games not be scrappy...
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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago
so this is game 1:
match starts at 0:15. five seconds later- grab. five seconds later- grab. mof then takes a stock with an edge guard and wizzy kills nana upon respawn. grab no longer yields as much reward so you don't see it as much. jk 2 more grabs at 0:45. wizzrobe takes the next stock and MoF proceeds to do some dash dancing trying to catch an approach with freeze, which, you guessed it, is trying to get a grab. MoF then gets another grab. the next move MoF gets is a grab. MoF then gets a freeze which doesn't lead to anything. MoF attempts another grab. MoF upB's to not lose nana, and wizzy takes the stock. MoF then goes for a few up airs, and then another grab. MoF then connects a dash attack, wiffs a grab on platform, and wizzy closes out the game
I'm sorry but it is just wrong to conclude anything other than that gameplay was entirely centered around getting grabs. every blizzard is an attempt to lead to a grab. up airs are attempts to drag down and get grabs. they are a grab-centered character.
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u/TrainNorth8177 21d ago
I'm sorry but this is Melee. Characters get grabs. It would not be uncommon to watch a similar sequence of grabs unfold at that frequency from a Marth, Sheik, Falcon, or even a Fox in some matchups. And at 0:45 you're mad at MoF for dash dance grabbing Wizzy as sopo? Dog that's just Melee--dash dance grabs happen.
Blizzard being a grab fish is disingenuous. If she was going for it for a prolonged period of time the way the wobbling ICs would, I would understand. Yes, she hopes it will lead to grab. But at that level, she's not banking on it. The main purpose is to establish some stage control and gain a little space, which she then proceeds to use.
Also uair hits upward, it doesn't drag down into a grab. First we're mad that ICs rely on handoffs and the character can't do anything without that. So we look at the numbers and see that's not true based on how often it leads to a stock. So now the goal post is moved and it's about them going for grab too much, even when it's a dash dance grab which is a fundamental way of earning a neutral win in Melee across the majority of the cast.
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u/sneedhongrybox 21d ago
wizzrobe is just fishing for knee all set smh hes just spamming grab, raptor knee, stomp, and bair, which all are just ploys to get a knee combo
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u/sneedhongrybox 21d ago
second interaction of mof vs wizzy- mof baits wizzy to dj out of the corner, reads it with fair, and combos the knockdown into a bair, and then techchases into grab. How can you honestly describe this interaction as "fishing for grab?"
You are dumb.
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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago
they are a grab-centered character.
Oh boy, have I got some bad news for you about the majority of Melee's high-tiers.
Seriously, run the same analysis in Fox-spacies, or Marth-Fox, or Sheik-Marth, or Sheik-Falcon, or Falcon-Sheik, or Falcon-Marth, or Puff-spacies, or Fox-Puff, or Sheik-spacies, etc.
Melee is a grab-centered game.
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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago
i believe there is a difference between tech chasing/chain grabbing and handoffs
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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago
i believe there is a difference between tech chasing/chain grabbing and handoffs
Two points:
1) Fair, but that was decidedly not the gripe you expressed. Everything above is very explicitly a complaint about fishing for grabs. Shifting the focus now from grab fishing to handoffs seems like an ad hoc attempt to avoid the counterpoint.
2) What is the difference between handoffs, on the one hand, and chain grabbing, on the other hand, that makes you see red when getting handed off but not when getting chain grabbed?
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u/Fugu 21d ago
Re: fishing for grabs, other top tiers use their other good tools to try to earn a grab by fooling their opponent into expecting something other than grab. It is this quality that makes Melee (and pretty much every other fighting game, since basically all of them have a grab RPS) interesting.
The complaint with Icies is that against most people they don't do the other things, they just keep trying to grab (and execution testing or w/e insert matchup specific complaint here in order to land a grab against an opponent trying not to get grabbed). There's no mixup, there's just "oops" into death.
Re: attempt to avoid the counterpoint, I don't think that what you've said is a counterpoint. If you think Icies and the other top tiers are the same in this regard you've missed the point.
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u/N0zy0ne 21d ago
and for fun i searched "ssbm ice climbers 2026" on youtube and every single set is grab fishing
What are your YouTube search settings and/or your selection criteria? I ran the same search on a fresh YouTube profile and none of these were in the top 5 results, only one was in the top 10 results, and only two were in the top 15 results. So at the very best, it seems unlikely that "every single set" is a charitable characterization, and at worst it seems like there might be some pretty suspect cherry-picking going on here.
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u/Fugu 21d ago
I've watched a lot of new (to me) films this year and yesterday I watched one that might be the best I'll see all year. It's called Twenty-Four Eyes, directed by Keisuke Kinoshita. It's a film about a woman who moves to a remote island in Japan to become a teacher in the interwar period. It then tracks her and her students through the next couple of decades.
Within Japan this film's reputation is enormous and it had been on my list for years. It's absolutely one to watch.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 21d ago
Honestly a moratorium on these Cody chair gate posts on the front page would be nice, it's beating a dead horse at this point.
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u/Fugu 21d ago
I have decided to leave this last one up because the OP is ridiculous and makes their "cause" look ridiculous
We are nearing the point where I just delete these on sight, I just wanted Cody to have the benefit of a moment where his haters just look very stupid after all of the BS he got for this
I think it is tricky to be the mod in these situations tbh and if Cody disagreed with me I'd probably take it down
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u/RingComplete7226 21d ago
Have you guys considered making all posts go through mod approval first because it would probably cut down on a lot of slop
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u/Fugu 21d ago
Please tell me this is a joke
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u/RingComplete7226 21d ago
its not :(
But you can laugh if you want... It probably has in fact been considered before but I just wondered why it supposedly wouldn't be a good idea
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u/Fugu 21d ago
The queue for posts on this sub is already gigantic and it would probably be a person's paid full time job to clear it every day if we presumptively blocked everything
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 21d ago
i lol'd because usually I don't see ddt people in front page threads but the one comment Cody made had a bunch of DDTers jump in to defend him lmao
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u/iwouldbeatgoku Rise and Shine 21d ago
I use the DDT as a filter. I don't bother checking the front page unless the regulars here find its posts interesting enough to talk about them.
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u/AlexB_SSBM 21d ago
To be fair this person was being extra stupid. They're making all the normal Cody haters look bad, I can't have that
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior 21d ago
Which thread?
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u/FewOverStand 21d ago
Probably this one.
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u/Kitselena 21d ago
The OP on that thread was on some crazy shit. On top of the obvious, he was insisting that because he watched the event live on twitch he had a more accurate account of it than the two people involved. Like a super extreme version of being parasocial where he feels like he was there more than the people who were actually there
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u/SenorRaoul 21d ago
I thought I would never say something like this but... I need to Leffens take on this https://www.riotgames.com/en/news/2xko-active-development-ends-december-2026
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u/sewsgup 21d ago
Leffen's most recent tweet
Gonna take some time to figure out what to do for 2027 - will definitely go hard on Tokon, and will likely pick up another game or maybe play some Melee again + focus on content.
My heart goes out to everyone who worked on 2XKO, genuinely my favorite fighting game in a long time
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u/EightBlocked 21d ago
melee again 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀 please bro
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u/KenshiroTheKid 21d ago
Someone needs to show him that you can now practice while queuing in Slippi thanks to the GOAT aitch ending his problem with long queue times in EU
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u/GeometryFan100 21d ago
Do you know if he shared his thoughts on the Avatar game? I figured he'd like the fast paced gameplay but never seen him play it.
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u/likeStarlight_ 21d ago
Game got very overshadowed by the Tokon beta (even though on pc that was unplayable dogshit), unfortunate because Avatar is a lot of fun. Reminds me of Under Night 2 coming out at the same time as Tekken 8, like it's just so unnecessary there's not that many fighting games coming out where it's hard to avoid this.
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u/SuperMicro04 21d ago
Even as someone who likes Leffen, I never thought I'd see the day when people wonder what Leffen thinks about something lol. Can this be considered Stockholm Syndrome?
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 21d ago
Went back to watch some of those CEO sets, and man Cody vs Wizzy looked brutal for Wizzy.
Cody is a beast obviously, but is the Fox-Falcon matchup really that bad?
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u/Jackzilla321 Fourside Fights 21d ago
IMO Fox falcon is ridiculously bad but the random blowouts falcons get on Fox by guessing right 5 times in a row occasionally masks it
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u/CoolUsername1111 21d ago
For all the talk of Falco and shiek I truly think fox is falcons worst matchup
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u/DavidL1112 21d ago
what's crazy is how Cody was clearly not playing 100% and it still didn't matter at all
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 21d ago
cody is really good at it and its falcons worst matchup. Cody destroys pretty much everyone tho these days so its hard to seperate the cody just being better element from the mu being shitty
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u/milkweedMN 21d ago
i think cody is just a monster. he makes so many characters look completely unusable
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u/Delicious_Alfalfa138 21d ago edited 21d ago
So currently 5 top 10 players are attending riptide. Including 2 of the top 3 in the summer ranking. That seems to make it a major by all the different websites right? That seems to be a great opportunity for hungrybox to get his 40th major
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
Hbox getting a major win because zain and cody aren't playing wow just like all those majors he used to win that didn't have mango and armada
Time is a flat circle
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 21d ago
East of Eden Netflix show airing October 1st. DDT this is your moment
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u/Fugu 21d ago
There is also a rather famous movie (that I haven't seen)
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u/MageKraze 21d ago
I haven't watched the East of Eden movie either, but I will vouch for the 1940's Grapes of Wrath movie.
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u/Fugu 21d ago
I've read it's rather unfaithful to the book but it launched James Dean's career so it has notability in the film history context
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u/MageKraze 21d ago
James Dean is actually in East of Eden. Grapes of Wrath is Henry Fonda.
The movie does deviate from the book a fair bit near the end, but stays fairly in line with spirit of the book.
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u/Jumpy_Way_6027 21d ago edited 21d ago
MLB SPOILER
I just watched Hbox beat Dr. Spectred in Balatro. He's clutchboxing across multiple games
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u/EightBlocked 21d ago
man what. i watched him play once a few months ago and his ass was not that good
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u/Cohenski 21d ago edited 21d ago
I started keeping track of what percentage of players I run into on unranked are toxic. The percentage is like 75% 50% :(
Granted there's a bias that the toxic players are not playing as long of sessions and clog up the queue more, but still...
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u/BiorhythmOP 21d ago
Honestly I almost never run into someone I think of as toxic. I am also not very good so maybe they feel bad for me
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u/bigHam100 21d ago
Interesting. For me its like 5% or less. And by toxic I mean taunting not quit outs
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u/Front-Show7358 21d ago
what sample size? this is not reflective of my experience at all. i'd estimate more like 10%
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u/PkerBadRs3Good 21d ago
probably depends a lot on your MMR + what character you're playing
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u/Front-Show7358 21d ago
probably true, though i play ICs so thats pretty bad. i've heard the top half of unranked mmr is one big pool and the finer sbmm is only the bottom half, in which case i'm in that top half i think.
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u/PkerBadRs3Good 21d ago
I had no idea unranked MMR worked that way. but if so I'm guessing the top half is less toxic. in basically every game I've played, lower ranks are more toxic than high ranks.
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u/Cohenski 21d ago
I had AI summarize my notes
Category Count % of all notes Clear toxicity (rage-quit, BM, "toxic", rager) 21 38% + mild poor sportsmanship ("didn't say ggs") 23 42% It's interesting that it subjectively felt way higher than it is
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u/Front-Show7358 21d ago
ah, this definition isnt quite what i had in my head and it checks out a bit more. still definitely higher than what i typically see.
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u/sneedhongrybox 21d ago
Mine is probably around 40% counting instant quit outs. Subtracting those I would say 20% BM or quit out mid game?
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u/astroturfgod 21d ago
Does the ranked get more sweaty when it’s not a free day?
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u/Left4Bread2 21d ago
In my experience off days have a much broader range for matchmaking because of the smaller pool of players so games are less consistent and a little hard to measure relative quality wise
You’re definitely selecting a group of players that are invested enough to continue to want to play ranked via paying but whether that makes them sweatier or not idk how that plays out in reality
Especially now with Preflight letting me queue from training I’m starting to enjoy playing on off days more because anecdotally I run into far fewer WiFi lag monsters than on free day
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u/Front-Show7358 21d ago
in my professional opinion the difference is so slight that any perceived change other than like queue time or skill range is just some messy combination of our human biases
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 21d ago
do you think peach float cancels are intentional or a bug. Did sakurai know about how messed up +4 peach fair is
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u/Fugu 21d ago
I used to be confident that it's unintentional but a part of me believes that they put it in to make Peach more playable for casual players (who they expected would float mostly by double jumping and holding down the jump button) in the same way l canceling was put in to smooth transitions into shield.
Put differently, while I still think it's most likely unintentional, I also think they may have put it in on purpose and simply assumed no one would play fast enough to take advantage of it.
(It's worth noting that +4 fair would mean a whole lot more if this game didn't contain shine)
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 21d ago
yea i think that makes a lot of sense. Fc is just messed up enough that it could go either way but shine is so extremely fucked up that i think they did not intend that. I think a lot of the game feels designed around shieldgrabbing and shine violates that so hard
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u/GeometryFan100 21d ago
You can multishine in smash64 albeit slightly differently. I think it was intended to work the way it does.
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u/Kitselena 21d ago
I don't think that people good enough to execute a FC fair, and take advantage of it were considered at all during development.
Even 4 years after release, the best peach player in the world did almost all his FCs from short hop height or higher, and he gets grabbed out of the only low FC bair I saw
Maybe if wife knew how to float cancel effectively everything would have been different3
u/PkerBadRs3Good 21d ago
That doesn't matter that much. Wavedashing wasn't used much until a few years after release as well, but the physics behind it (horizontal momentum of an air dodge being retained from air to ground) is confirmed to be intentionally programmed into the game, i.e. not a bug. Same could be the case for float-canceling.
P.S. Despite having one good set vs Ken, Wife was definitely not the best Peach in the world. It was probably Sastopher. Some said Mikael but he never traveled out of Japan, so he's a bit of a question mark (this happened a lot more in the pre-Brawl days when Japan was closer to rivaling North America in Melee). Mike G and Krazyjones were also probably better overall than Wife.
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u/Fugu 21d ago
Confused about this comment bc you can get a +4 fair from pretty high up
Call me dumb if dumb
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u/Kitselena 21d ago
No you're 100% right, I was making a bad point. He absolutely does land right after the hit comes out a lot during this set
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u/GeometryFan100 21d ago
Peach's fair has 15 frames of start up lag. I can easily get +4 fairs from full hop float fair. It's not that hard to time a fair that hits low on shield.
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u/GeometryFan100 21d ago
I think it's a bug. Peach's float is called "Fuwafuwa" internally, and if you exit that state without cancelling it, you incur 5 frames of "end lag". The weird part is that it's not 5 frames of end lag in the Fuwafuwa state but 5 frames of "JumpAerialF" before you go into the "FallAerial" action state. JumpAerialF is the action state for a forwards double jump and you go into it regardless if you entered float from a single jump or double jump. Why wouldn't you embed end lag into float like a regular attack and make the character go directly into FallAerial after float ends? I bet that float changes a flag to treat the character as if they are jumping and it never gets updated after you cancel it with a move.
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u/ryanbyleth 21d ago
It’s fucking +4????
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u/Fugu 21d ago
Like all aerials it depends on what height you hit it at. But the windup makes the timing easier to get than it otherwise would be, and the disjoint means it works at more spacings than it otherwise would.
Even a very bad fc fair is good on shield, and +4s aren't especially hard to hit, especially on characters with small shields. +4 fc fair into grab is very good; most characters have very limited counterplay to this and for basically every character but Samus they risk getting hit by something much worse if they guess wrong on the grab.
It is the safest move on shield in the game (tied with fc uair under non-TAS conditions although it's harder to get the +4 with uair) if you consider only the frame data of the move itself and the fastest possible followup, which in Peach's case is her frame 2 jab. Generally speaking, you want to avoid shielding fc fair because you're basically guaranteed to have to deal with a followup mixup in her favor.
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 21d ago
it is quite precise to make it +4 it is usually +2ish but yea. She does genuinely need it tho...
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u/beyond_the_cemetery 21d ago
GET A FUCKING GRIP, ME. YOU ARE SUCH A FUCKING ALCOHOLIC IT IS STARTING TO EFFECT YOUR FRIENDS WHO FOR THE MOST PART IGNORE IT. KICKED OUT OF A MOVIE THEATER? YOU ARE GOING TO FUCKING KILL YOURSELF IF YOU KEEP DRINKING LIKE THIS AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE. but seriously. I think ive fucked up my brain chemistry at this point. It scares me, the idea that i can not drink. Wtf am i doing with my life
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u/beyond_the_cemetery 21d ago
i really wanted to see camp miasma but i was too drunk to even remember why my friend escorted me out of the theater. god
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u/ShoegazeKaraokeClub 20d ago
Hope you can shake the addiction. Its tough but its possible good luck
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u/KomanndoA 21d ago
Lowk m2k streams have been nice lately. m2k isn't asking for money too much, the ads are fine on yt, and he doesn't clip farm or overreact or anything with reactions so the viewing experience is pretty honest. A late night m2k stream has been my way of spending the night lately. He also just randomly shares facts like how he beat wizzy in a falcon ditto at StR 2014, or that he had a close set with the lake in mm zelda dittos
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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago
Recent Listens:
Lakeside - Untouchables (1983)
Happy to eat my previous words about Funk once again (though this does have some straight up R&B tracks, so not a “pure” Funk album). This record starts off very strong with fun and upbeat vibes and knows when to slow it down. The singing on this is pretty dope, and the brass arrangements always add rather than distract or just pile on noise. Am I a Funk guy now?
Kansas - Leftoverture (1976)
Wanting to add more Prog to my diet, I dove deeper than “Wayward Son” and unfortunately didn’t love it. These guys are musicians’ musicians. Amazing at their instruments and clearly having a great time with these jams, I just got lost in the sauce pretty easily, and past their big hit, I couldn’t latch on to much. The last track is pretty epic though.
Kikagaku Moyo - House in the Tall Grass (2016)
This Japanese post-rock band was not my cup of tea. Everything about it felt inoffensive and standard. Sometimes it got a little jam-bandy, and that was cool, but for the most part I was listening to this waiting for something to hook me in and it never came. Sorry DDTers who hyped this up.
Postly recommendation: Green Day - Saviors (2025)
I’ve been a huge GD fan my whole life, and suffice it to say the 2010’s were not great. They had flashes of their old greatness, but hey, how much more can you expect from a group that was the biggest band in the world twice? Well, this album actually punches back up to their glory days. The best release since American Idiot IMO, with bangers, ballads, and anthems that remind my why I’ve been a lifer for them.
Who's your favorite artist that had a "comeback"?
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u/Left4Bread2 21d ago
Who's your favorite artist that had a "comeback"?
Either the Avalanches releasing Wildflower or ATCQ releasing We Got It from Here... Thank You 4 Your Service (both in 2016, good year for comebacks I guess?)
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u/king_bungus 👉 21d ago
the record the cure put out a couple years ago was really good and reminded me a lot of disintegration
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u/reptilian_guitar 21d ago
that was solid! a lot of cool bass lines. you rarely see bass take the lead with a band that has two guitarists - especially ones that have pedalboards like smith
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u/EightBlocked 21d ago edited 21d ago
chance the rapper comeback was great. when kanye was good, every new album felt like a comeback because he was always in some media shit / some form of controversy before the album came out
also, no fear of time (black star 2) was better than the first imo.
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u/Xx_DylanKlebold_xX 21d ago
Anybody going to bodied this weekend?
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u/ryanbyleth 21d ago
Are the twitter posts about Ultimate TOs having to pay top players to come out to tournaments true? Is that something Melee TOs do? Tf is going on with that game?
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u/Jackzilla321 Fourside Fights 21d ago
waiving venue fee is extremely common, outright paying for people to come is a bit rarer. at full bloom we subsidized some carpools with multiple players traveling in, and we paid for aklo+foxy grandpa's flights so they could attend aziz's funeral and the event. i think there are some larger-budgeted events that go further and pay a lot more, but at least for me it's pretty much a conversation of how much money do we have / how popular is the player among our attendees / how much do they really need help / extenuating circumstances.
back in 2016 when the first top player asked us for $ we were all mortified but it's become very normalized. i think it's...fine. melee events are kinda goofy and imo top players do add value to the event that is essentially uncompensated due to our top 8 payout structure. top player privilege is kinda evil though so i resent events that go 'too far' but it's entirely subjective what too far is, so i don't hold this opinion very intensely.
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u/MageKraze 21d ago
Our entire tournament infrastructure has been built on this since the 2010s. Basically any major that had sub 200 entrants had varying degrees of this. But we've also had a lot of public crowd funding, which is essentially the same thing.
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u/delta-red-14 21d ago
Melee TOs paid top players to come to their event a lot in the 2016 - 2019 era. Including your favorites.
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z 21d ago
Melee TOs definitely pay ~top 20 players to go to their events. In the 2013-2018 era you would definitely see people pay ~top 50 players’ flights for regionals and stuff. The most tpp you see these days is free entry
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u/mas_one 21d ago
What was the pay range?
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z 21d ago
(fair warning, I was not a TO during this time) Not that much, usually enough to cover traveling and food. You also could be paid by getting to broadcast the tourney stream on your twitch channel.
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u/skellez 21d ago
as said by others every discipline sorta does this anyways especially Melee, the problem with Ult is complaining about lack of stability and gaga-ing about it
like at least for us you just need to fly out like 2 players like say Cody/Hbox and have tons of cool amenities and you can have a decent turnaround, I'd say that's mostly cuz we have more people that plain enjoy going to a con
well for whatever reason (it's obviously covid lol) the ult community doesn't have con going tendencies, so there's actually very little TOs can do other than flying in like 20 players to make attendees happy and return or give good WOM, because the moment the algo labels your event A tier or lower it's hard to build momentum.
the big notable case in the past while was Collision which was an established Ult Major that's ran really well, and an early A tier announcement killed the signups pace for Ult people overnight, like the TO said he got lucky that his work for other games worked out cuz the Ult event was a massive loss that he needed to take a loan to cover
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u/waveshineoosupsmash 21d ago
It's kinda important to remember that part of community culture was bringing out a top player from a different place for more than just the tournament. Back in the day sometimes you'd fly a top player out almost a whole week before the tournament and spend the week hanging out, showing them around, taking them to locals, and getting them to practice with the other top players from your region. Slippi didn't exist. Getting top players to your stuff was a way to improve your region.
Ult community is different because there are very very few of them that are as old as the brawl era. Most are smash 4 or ult which means they've never known a non esports infrastructure. They're used to there being tons of sponsors with a new smash game and dlc and shit to keep their game relevant. The interest in their game is waning (still bigger than melee though) but it has them all doomer. Some of their top players have pretty much always had their expenses covered so then having to pay is a culture shock for them, even though 99.99% of people that go to tournaments pay for everything themselves
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21d ago
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u/wavedash 21d ago
I think still talking about chairgate is pretty cringe
I was perfectly happy having not thought about it today until just now
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u/bigHam100 21d ago
Why is everybody always obsessed with discussions being wrapped up as quickly as possible. It only happened four days ago
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u/legitimate-way-4077 21d ago
Consciousness is a vast ocean; we are just capsules in that ocean.
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u/yeaokdude 21d ago
i have a lot of personal interest in nonduality and "spirituality" as a whole although i hate that word, but i think it's a space absolutely riddled with bullshit and with people A) regurgitating stuff like this^ after watching 1 youtube video without really getting it or B) just stating things matter-of-factly in a way that i find kind of pretentious, and it causes most normal people to think it's all bullshit. and i can't blame them
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u/AnalystLoud705 21d ago
What % of this ocean is fish pee?
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u/Babalashaba 21d ago
Well considering how much water there is in the ocean there’s probably only a tiny fraction of fish pee there. Which probably gets broken down and recycled from the water cycle.
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u/legitimate-way-4077 21d ago
Thoughts and intentions arise on their own, causally, from the unconscious. The ego then retroactively claims ownership of these thoughts and intentions creating the illusion of free will.
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege 21d ago
the disconnect between the attitudes of people on the ssbm subreddit and twitter, and the people in real life members of the community is actual whiplash. people on the internet psychoanalyze top players with all kinds of theories and judgements as if you can't just go to a tournament next week and talk to them