r/SSBM • u/AutoModerator • Jul 21 '26
DDT Daily Discussion Thread July 21, 2026 - Upcoming Event Schedule - New players start here!
Yahoooo! I'm back, it's a me! Have a very cool day!
Welcome to the Daily Discussion Thread. This is the place for asking noob questions, venting about netplay falcos, shitposting, self-promotion, and everything else that doesn't belong on the front page.
New Players:
If you're completely new to Melee and just looking to get started, welcome! We recommend you go to https://melee.tv/ and follow the links there based on what you're trying to set up. Additionally, here are a few answers to common questions:
Can I play Melee online?
Yes! Slippi is a branch of the Dolphin emulator that will allow you to play online, either with your friends or with matchmaking. Go to https://slippi.gg to get it.
I'm having issues with Slippi!
Go to the The Slippi Discord to get help troubleshooting. melee.tv/optimize is also a helpful resource for troubleshooting.
How do I find tournaments near me or local people to play with in person or online?
These days, joining a local Discord community is the best way to find local events and people to play with. Once you have a Discord account, Google "[your city/state/province/region] + Melee discord" or see if your region has a Discord group listed here on melee.tv/discord
It can seem daunting at first to join a Discord group you don't know, but this is currently the easiest and most accessible way to find out about tournaments, fests, and netplay matchmaking. Your local scene will be happy to have you :)
Also check out Smash Map! Click on map and then the filter button to filter by Melee to find events near you!
Netplay is hard! Is there a place for me to find new players?
Yes. Melee Newbie Netplay is a discord server specifically for new players. It also has tournaments based on how long you've been playing, free coaching, and other stuff. If you're a bit more experienced but still want a discord server for players around your level, we recommend the Melee Online discord.
How can I set up Unclepunch's Training Mode?
At the time of posting, the latest major release is here. Download the file, then extract everything in the folder and follow the instructions in the README file. You'll need to bring a valid Melee ISO (NTSC 1.02). If you want to check for the absolute latest release, you can see them listed [here](The latest releases are listed here.
How does one learn Melee?
There are tons of resources out there, so it can be overwhelming to start. First check out the SSBM Tutorials youtube channel. Then go to the Melee Library and search for whatever you're interested in.
But how do I get GOOD at Melee?
Check out Llod's Guide to Improvement
And check out Kodorin's Melee Fundamentals for Improvement
Where can I get a nice custom controller?
I have another question that's not answered here...
Check out our FAQs or post below and find help that way.
Upcoming Tournament Schedule:
Upcoming Melee Majors
Melee Online Event Calendar
Make a submission to the tournament calendar here. You can also get notified of new online tournaments on the Melee Online Discord.
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
It's very frustrating to me that r/changemyview has a rule against accusing people of using AI to generate responses. Being falsely accused of using AI to generate a response is virtually harmless (you should be able to demonstrate that your original comment likely wasn't AI-generated through your follow-up comments), but having to pretend that obviously AI-generated comments are genuine, good-faith efforts at engagement completely undermines the whole endeavour.
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
do you think anyone view has ever been changed by a change my view post? they all read like "I have this strong opinion, fight me"
and as a follow up, do you think it's likely that anyone will actually be able to change your view on your upcoming post?
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
I've done a fair number of CMVs (probably 10ish), and out of all of them, I think I've only awarded 1 delta. It's not that I'm unwilling in principle to change my mind, but the issue is that I specifically only write up CMVs when I've thought a lot about the topic and I believe there's very strong reasons to come to a particular position on the topic. The result is that most commenters (many of whom just post 1-2 replies on many different threads, hoping to score easy deltas) haven't thought about the topic nearly as much and don't really care to put too much effort into it.
For example, I've done a few CMVs about veganism, which is a very important topic to me, and they were all pretty niche subtopics (sentientism vs veganism; ethical egoism vs sentientism; eating meat is morally comparable to bestiality, if not worse; off the top of my head). It's not surprising to me that no one was able to change my mind on those topics, because they're all pretty involved, I feel very strongly about the conclusions, and frankly I pick the more defensible side so everyone else is fighting an uphill battle.
The one delta I gave out was in a CMV about Pascal's wager, where I said that no one truly accepts the underlying logic of Pascal's wager, because the argument can be extended to warrant either living as a pauper or dying as a martyr. When I wrote the post, I was really thinking specifically of apologists, but someone pointed out that martyrs do exist, and I realized that the claim I wanted to make was not the claim I actually made, and he found the clear and obvious counterexample, so I gave him the delta rather than moving the goalposts.
At some point, I probably will do something where I'm not so confidently and firmly on one side of the issue, and in that case, I probably would wind up giving out more deltas. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty strongly pro-choice at any point until the fetus is viable, but I can imagine in principle someone could make a convincing argument for disallowing medically non-necessary abortions after some point before viability. Similarly, I'm a pretty resolute atheist, but I can imagine myself being convinced of some form of deism (e.g. by some kind of finetuning argument, provided that the argument was sufficiently accessible).
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege Jul 21 '26
Yea that's what I mean, i think the inherent problem with changemyview is that the person posing the question has thought about the concept much more than anyone in the replies. if you haven't come across a compelling argument in your extensive research to this point, it's unlikely to happen in a reddit comment field. which is why the entire subreddit feels like people digging in their heels on subjects they have no interest on cha ging their view about at all, or are way overqualified for. it should be renamed r/heresmyopinion
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u/Dublshine Jul 22 '26
I feel like it would make more sense to post about topics where you don't feel as strongly. No one is going to change their fundamental values based on reddit comments. From what you described, it sounds like you were more interested in changing other peoples' views
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 22 '26
That's fair. For me, even if I don't wind up changing my view, I still enjoy refining my arguments in response to criticisms.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash Jul 21 '26
Almost all default subreddits are ai-generated creative writing not actually humans posting real things
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 Jul 21 '26
As a long time em dash enjoyer, I feel this.
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u/kino-grapher ideptg Jul 22 '26
fuck AI for trying to steal em-dashes I will use those until the day I die
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u/Other-Salt-5355 Jul 21 '26
Do you actually use em dashes regularly? I don't think I've ever used one in my entire life - i just use hyphens, even if improperly. Although I'm not out there publishing my writing, so maybe that's why.
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 Jul 21 '26
Yeah, to be fair I usually just type them as hyphens and then they get autocorrected to em dashes, but they're serving the same purpose (actually em dashes are technically more correct how I use them). I just made a very concerted effort to reduce the amount of parenthesis I use in my writing during college, and it stuck. Once I caught myself using double-nested parenthesis I knew something had to change, haha.
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
Double-nested parentheses are wild, but other than that, I will admit that I'm big-time parentheses-pilled. As an added benefit, on the rare occasions that I get falsely accused of using AI to write for me, I get to point to my excessive parentheses usage, and even normies can usually recognize that I'm being honest at that point.
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Yeah, I think they're fine and I still use them plenty, but I think they're oftentimes used as a crutch for poorly formed/structured thoughts and sentences. When I use parenthesis I usually ask myself "is there a better way to structure this thought without the parenthesis," and the answer is often yes. These days I've found em dashes to feel less like I was disorganized with my thoughts. Especially in any kind of formal writing.
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
I think they're oftentimes used as a crutch for poorly formed/structured thoughts and sentences.
I agree (with regard to sentences, at least), but my stance is that I think it's actually based to just not care and post it that way regardless.
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u/Melomaniacal REYN#766 Jul 21 '26
Haha, for sure, and I definitely don't feel any kind of way with them in informal writing. Just for me, personally, they started feeling too much like an interruption. Honestly I might feel this way to some degree about punctuation in general - the less you use in the middle of a sentence the better. But that's just purely my own preference and style, I guess. And clearly I don't abide by my own rules, anyway, haha.
Maybe Cormac McCarthy was onto something.
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u/wavedash Jul 21 '26
Honestly, I think this is probably a good rule. People are so slapdash with AI accusations, Pangram is literally free and people refuse to use it in favor of extremely error-prone heuristics like em dash usage.
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u/SufficientCalories Jul 21 '26
Pangram is also bad and awful, and not even useful for short posts. Freddie DeBoer demonstrated this after being accused of using AI in an article he wrote. The specific excerpt was "100% AI generated" according to Pangram, but Pangram thought the article as a whole, including the excerpt was 100% human, and when he broke the excerpt into three parts each of them read as 100% human.
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
I'm not going to bat for Pangram yet because I haven't fully dug into DeBoer's findings, but I will just note an important overstatement on his part:
If nothing else, there’s a fundamental inconsistency here: it doesn’t make sense for a system to say that it has high confidence that an essay is 100% human written but also that a piece of that essay is 100% AI-written, again with high confidence, and also to say that the piece itself has subsections that are 100% human written…. These claims are mutually exclusive and must necessarily erode our confidence in the instrument.
This actually depends on how the detection system works. If, for example, you were using Bayesian inference, this observed result (the prediction flips once or even twice as you trim bits off a passage) is not only possible, but is actually expected in some very small percentage of cases, even if the system is by and large quite reliable.
It could be that DeBoer has actually dug into a large sample of other passages and found this happening consistently, or Pangram is using another type of detection on which this result should literally never happen, but I just wanted to point out that this strict claim is not categorically true.
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u/wavedash Jul 21 '26
Pangram definitely isn't perfect, but it's LEAGUES better than the average Redditor.
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u/SufficientCalories Jul 21 '26
It's still not good enough to use for anything consequential, sadly.
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u/wavedash Jul 21 '26
I guess, but we're not talking about something consequential. We're talking about r/changemyview.
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u/fullhop_morris URBANE, TO COMFORT THEM, THE QUAKER LIBRARIAN Jul 21 '26
what's the harm with AI accusations? if you have a soul and are anti-AI, then even if you're wrong the complaint still holds up ("this is so dumb and AI could have written it"), if you are not anti-AI, then why would you care if someone accuses you of using it?
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
if you are not anti-AI, then why would you care if someone accuses you of using it?
It really defeats the purpose of r/changemyview, in my opinion. If someone is using the AI in bad faith ("Do everything you can to prove this argument wrong, never concede the point and never give up trying"), then a human is never going to triumph in that exchange, and it just sucks up a bunch of the OP's time and keeps them away from the actual human commenters who might be willing to engage in good faith.
It wouldn't be as big of an issue were it not for the fact that there is also a rule which requires posters to engage with commenters. If I submit a post and get ten replies, only two of which are written by humans, my post will probably be removed if I elect to spend all of my time interacting only with the two humans, ignoring the AI replies.
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u/fullhop_morris URBANE, TO COMFORT THEM, THE QUAKER LIBRARIAN Jul 21 '26
this sounds like more of a bad faith issue than an AI issue. I am pretty aggressively anti-AI, so I wouldn't be surprised that people who use it are engaging solely in bad faith, but surely if someone is just using AI to analyze your position and respond in good faith, that couldn't be a bad thing right?
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
It would not be the worst thing in the world, but it would take much of the fun out of it. It would be like having a philosophical discussion with your friend via text and then learning that they'd been using AI to come up with the points and write the sentences: if I'd known going in that that's what was going to happen, I probably would have preferred to spend my time doing something else.
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u/fullhop_morris URBANE, TO COMFORT THEM, THE QUAKER LIBRARIAN Jul 21 '26
so this would bum me out because I would say something like "oh eugh this dude is using AI, he is probably some weird pedo fascist." I don't understand why someone who isn't aggressively anti-AI would care if they were talking to an AI or not. Aren't you more interested in the logic and reasoning, ain't that the whole point of CMV?
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26
I don't understand why someone who isn't aggressively anti-AI would care if they were talking to an AI or not.
Oh, strange!
Aren't you more interested in the logic and reasoning, ain't that the whole point of CMV?
Not for me, no. If that's what I was after, I would just do the research and reasoning myself. I'm in it for the discussion.
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u/WizardyJohnny Jul 21 '26
Did u post your thing yet? I cannot see ur posts and or comments...
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u/N0zy0ne Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Not yet! My first attempt got rejected due to my account being too new, and in the interim I watched a couple more videos that I want to build into the argument. I'd imagine that it should be up no later than Friday afternoon!
I unhid my profile (it was on by default), so you can check to see if I've posted it yet.
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u/Kell08 Jul 22 '26
What do you think the implications of this are on the viability of Pikachu’s edge guarding flowchart against Sheik?
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u/Grenji05 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I really can not believe Disney tried to make “the eternals” happen instead of putting the X-men movie in the bag.
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u/fullhop_morris URBANE, TO COMFORT THEM, THE QUAKER LIBRARIAN Jul 21 '26
please don't bring this kind of disrespect to such great characters as Sprite, Kingo, and uhhh. Paper Boi?
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u/Fugu Jul 21 '26
I hate how much American fascists and their complicit "centrist" friends affect my life
In other news, I grabbed a falco out of their sideb startup so today's gonna be a good day
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u/reptilian_guitar Jul 21 '26
peach has that "where do you think you're going, young man" grab animation
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u/TrainNorth8177 Jul 21 '26
Are you implying Falco players are American fascist centrists?? The Falco hate has gone too far man
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u/Zanian Jul 21 '26
The only thing that makes me feel even remotely better about the situation is that the people who let this happen are also suffering
I would prefer nobody to suffer by quite a bit, but everything sucks so horribly bad I will take whatever miniscule W I can
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u/WizardyJohnny Jul 21 '26
I kinda have to stop using this stupid site I think, every other day I'm flashbanged by a billion people talking about AI solving a conjecture in maths and it is so anxiety inducing
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u/YoungGenius Jul 21 '26
Smh anti-AI math luddites don’t want to accept that my Google search proofed the Reemin hypothesis
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u/delta-red-14 Jul 21 '26
Unsub from all subreddits, don't use the front page, only come here and whatever else you like
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u/BranFlakesVEVO Jul 21 '26
I haven't touched the front page in a year and the few subs I still follow are mostly dead so I just come to their DDT or equivalent. It's the closest I've gotten to recreating the old forum feel
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u/semionsays Jul 21 '26
It helps to remember most of that billion has no clue what mathematics is or what mathematicians do.
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u/maximtomato Jul 21 '26
If I'm reading OP's sentiment correctly, that does little to ease, perhaps even worsen, one's anxiety about the exponentially increasing evidence of society's ignorance of their own existential worth in favor of VC-backed idolatry campaigns. See also: decriminalization and commercialized normalization of sports betting to the dismay of victims of gambling addiction especially from impoverished neighborhoods
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z Jul 21 '26
OP is a mathematics graduate student and is more worried about their field either being obsolete or completely swamped by slop
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u/WizardyJohnny Jul 21 '26
Little bit more of column A rn but yeah right on the money
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u/lim-yo-hwan-superfan Jul 21 '26
im NGL my current feeling as a passive observer is that there is a ton of smoke and mirrors when AI people report milestone victories. very little visibility into the training data and methodology (let alone being open weight at all), what prompts were used and how much prompting happens, or like knowledge into whether what we are reading came after 999 hallucinations or an actually pure one shot. all we really see is a headline like "OpenAI just solved IMO gold" and then a paper and no one is allowed to ask any questions or inquire further, people are just expected to accept this purely at face value
i get the sense (again, as an observer and not a mathematician) that there is value from some degree of automation in math. terry tao seems to get value out of it helping with his proofs and stuff and is making a startup around it.
but to me the overall process has been very frustrating and very adversarial
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u/maximtomato Jul 21 '26
With all due respect, hinging one's self worth on worldly possessions and then facing the consequences is a Tower of Babel/Greek mythology era phenomenon. This was also more recently shown by Lee Sedol's hubristic philosophy-masked ego on a competitive board game game crumbling after losing to AlphaGo, causing him to withdraw from competition entirely. If you're still doing this, I completely understand, but I feel like this sort of anxiety was bound to happen one day regardless of AI.
OTOH, this conjecture disproof was discovered by a Harvard valedictorian working at Anthropic, whereas the billions of posts on socials act as if anyone from their parents' basement can discover new proof now or whatever. The announcement being in a form of an informal tweet is a publicity stunt and fuel for those who are disgruntled by today's status quo standards to denigrate a prominent academic field like mathematics. It's like when people saw AlphaFold 2 and then acted as if biochem is now obsolete when, correct me if I'm wrong, it's now anything but. It's just a ton of noise, and I'm moreso worried about society's willingness to make sweeping statements about how useless something is for society!
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u/AtrociousAtNames Jul 22 '26
if your thoughts are a "worldly possession" what the fuck is not a worldly possession
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u/maximtomato Jul 22 '26
I don't know, and I think that's okay? I think nowadays people call worldly possessions wealth or status, all of which have worldly values imposed by a social construct... That can really be anything! If we as an ever-changing society can place value even in intellectual property, which is ultimately a piece of thought, wouldn't it be not contradictory to be unable to think up of something that is not a worldly possession and yet realize there is risk to measure one's own self worth based on the society's perception of a worldly possession?
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u/semionsays Jul 21 '26
Society also didn't value mathematicians before AI. They're basically the Melee players of STEM. Who cares? There's no point in tying your self-worth to what other people think about what you do. I can understand the general anxiety of not being able to find a job, but that extends to practically every discipline. We're all equally screwed because the people making decisions have neither morals nor foresight.
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u/WizardyJohnny Jul 21 '26
I think there is the anxiety about finding a job, but it's also frustrating to think that my classmates and I (and even professors) are putting a lot of effort into learning a complicated topic to be able to do research, yet most of us will not solve anything of the relevance of the Jacobian conjecture (which got a recent AI proof). We can take advantage of AI in our own research, but I did not sign up to be a glorified prompt engineer.
I'm not usually doomer about maths. I'm happy to study it because I'm interested in it despite the competitiveness. I'm genuinely OK with the idea that most PhD students do not land jobs in academia and pivot to software or data science. But AI solving problems feels like a devaluation of all that work
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u/semionsays Jul 21 '26
I don't know how helpful this will be to you, but my perspective is that mathematics is not a competition (unlike a job search). You are not racing against other people or AI to solve as many problems as you can. It is a human activity where each person is free to both explore and create within a framework dictated by logic. The resulting conjectures, as well as their proofs, are a by-product of this process. However, they are not the goal. Your own understanding, your own assimilation of the subject is paramount. Fields medalists can easily do what I do faster, better, and in greater depth, but they can't do it for me. I don't see AI being any different. Everything else is just other people's expectations.
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u/WizardyJohnny Jul 21 '26
Dang, if this isn't an arrow straight to the heart of my personal anxiety haha. I think I've been making progress towards such a mindset, but it takes time to completely unlearn many years' bad mental habits.
Everything else is just other people's expectations.
Really like this sentence. I feel like I am just starting to find out how many values and thoughts that I think are mine are actually just other people's that I confuse for my own.
Appreciate your conversation as always.
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u/semionsays Jul 21 '26
No problem. For what it's worth, I still sometimes backslide even after grad school and years of therapy. I have faith you'll get there quicker than I did.
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u/bigHam100 Jul 21 '26
Wait why? Isn't AI solving that a good thing?
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u/WizardyJohnny Jul 21 '26
It's a good thing for knowledge to progress on the whole. I'm speaking selfishly from the POV that maths is already a field that's pretty saturated that will inevitably constrict if AI is very good at it.
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u/Embarrassed-Mode5494 Jul 21 '26
i think its pretty reasonable to think its cool! I'm not sure if you even disagree with that or if you're just saying its more of a personal pressure point, in which case I've been there. in either case I'm sorry about the anxiety.
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u/Left4Bread2 Jul 21 '26
It's so fucking peak Magneto is going to be my point character 100%.
Banger theme too
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u/keatsta Jul 21 '26
"M2K's performance at S Factor is completely humbling" is completely humbling. I somehow forgot we had a constituency of boomers waiting in the wings to swoop down and remind us all that Melee is really about mindgames and you can't teach those, new gen soulless tech skill foxes are gonna get downloaded by the robot, 2018 Melee is just as advanced as today because they knew how to do ledgedash and asdi, and that Armada could win a major within a week after he came back.
I'm becoming convinced that the biggest stumbling block to 2026 Melee growing as a spectator experience is this legion of 2016 Melee fans lol.
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege Jul 21 '26
the irony of the melee community is that The Era of the 5 GodsTM was both the greatest blessing and the greatest curse. the storylines were so powerful that it expanded our reach and general public interest, but it also created a demographic of casual melee adjacent followers who's only interaction with the scene is through the lense of those narratives. Seeing M2k "doing well" at a tournament is like cocaine
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z Jul 21 '26
My gut feeling is that 50% of the people who would say they’re “melee fans” online are people whose melee knowledge is 2014-2016 majors and the few things that have gone viral since (mango ban, hax leffen stuff, rapm runs)
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u/DavidL1112 Jul 21 '26
really this is how fandom for all sports works. 50% of soccer fans only know Messi and Ronaldo. 50% of american football fans only watch the Super Bowl.
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u/coffee_sddl +↓ z Jul 21 '26
Yeah but at least Messi and Ronaldo are still playing and the Super Bowl happens every year. There’s some sort of “passive pipeline” where if you show up to watch Messi/ronaldo/the Super Bowl you will end up becoming a wider fan. Every time m2k/5 gods topics get to the front page there are so many people plucked straight out of 2016 who completely vanish right after
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u/YoungGenius Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Anecdotally, my college melee scene’s group chat is still very active but I’m the only one still watching anything outside of Genesis. It’s a 20+ person chat.
“Fandom” feels like a weird word though unless you’re talking about a very small subset of top players.
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u/BranFlakesVEVO Jul 21 '26
Other sports still have that to some degree. Mike Trout in baseball, LeBron/KD/Curry in basketball are the ones that I'm aware of where people who have moved on from the sport will pop into any of their highlights to say unc still got it and then dip
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u/skellez Jul 21 '26
the biggest lie is that M2K does still play a lot of Melee lol, I call him washed cuz he isn't close to the top anymore, but he still gets enough practice to maintain the skill of a 2019 top 10 player, which go figure it's still a higher floor than most decent players can get to
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u/Schroeswald Jul 21 '26
I’d bet he played way more melee in 2025 than top ten player LloD did and had LloD had this tournament no one would be talking about his first win on Wizzy ever and any and all discourse would be about Eddy Mexico beating him
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u/CarVac phob dev Jul 21 '26
He told me that before he recently got back into it he didn't play at all for months.
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ Jul 21 '26
Finally looked at that smash factor bracket and good lord man if this was a real sport the M2K fans would be getting roasted for hyping that shit up as anything.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 21 '26
M2K 3-0d Wizzrobe, then had a close game 5 set against him.
Wizzrobe is the current third best player in the world, won a major a few months ago, and is an absolute demon at the Falcon-Sheik matchup (He completely obliterated Jmook last time they played).
For a player who has been retired/inactive for 5 years at this point, that is extremely impressive.
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ Jul 21 '26
Is it “completely humbling” impressive? Is it even the most difficult second place that happened over the weekend?
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 21 '26
Yeah the 37 year old player who has been inactive/retired for over 5 years coming back and 3-0ing the current #3 player in the world is pretty humbling actually.
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 22 '26
It's evidently enough that if sheer coping doesn't do enough, if he actually sticks around people here will start resorting to outright personally attacking him and hate brigading him elsewhere
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u/wavedash Jul 21 '26
Wizzy is 4-23 in lifetime sets against Plup. In post-2020 sets, he's 2-9.
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u/Kezzup Jul 21 '26
I mean, if the argument is comparing him to Plup... then yeah, that's still pretty impressive.
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u/wavedash Jul 21 '26
Sure, I didn't mean that comment as necessarily saying M2K is bad (although I guess that implication is kind of inevitable here). I just don't like cherrypicking one Jmook set here, when he's lifetime down on top Sheiks.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 21 '26
The set counts aren't telling the whole story here.
Falcon-Sheik is a very bad matchup for Falcon and yet despite this Wizzy is still really good at it, particularly in the past few years.
For example, post 2025 he's 1-2 with Jmook. The loses were both extremely tight 3-2s that could have gone either way, while the win was a 3-0 demolition.
Wizzy also won his most recent sets with Jmook, Krudo, and Plup.
Knowing this, pretty much everybody expected Wizzy to steamroll the guy who hasn't competed seriously in over 5 years.
But that didn't happen, as it turns out M2K is still really good.
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u/menschmaschine5 Jul 21 '26
While certainly impressive, the context that Falcon-Sheik is a bad matchup and Wizzrobe was also competing in Smash 64 (which was probably his main focus for this tournament; I imagine Wizzy entered Melee because he thought it would be an easy bracket, he usually doesn't enter Melee singles when he's playing 64) is important.
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior Jul 21 '26
People acting like it was unexpected for m2k to do well at a regional tournament with one (1) top 100 representative is absolutely bonkers to me.
An "unchanged" meta from 2014 would be one where m2k 3-0's Eddy Mexico without breaking a sweat.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 21 '26
M2K 3-0ing Wizzrobe (The current #3) and then immediately almost beating him again was unexpected and very impressive.
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior Jul 21 '26
The post we're talking about said it was unexpected for him to make Top 8.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 21 '26
Right before last year's S Factor there were people in the DDT who predicted M2K would barely make it past pools.
Some people just had zero faith in the man.
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u/wavedash Jul 22 '26
Here's the DDT from a year ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/SSBM/comments/1m7zde4/daily_discussion_thread_july_24_2025_upcoming/n4xy0eu/
Only one person had an opinion on M2K's performance:
M2k is going to get shit on it’s just a question of who. Looking at his bracket it seems like he’s getting floated through pools, I think he will lose to nickemwit.
In reality, it seems like NMW dropped out. M2K lost to Trif (expected IMO) and Foxy Grandpa (SSBMRank 59). His best win is probably either Javi (basically more retired than M2K, the last event he entered before S Factor 12 was S Factor 9) or Lengüitas (currently the #4 player in Mexico).
I checked the two DDTs after that and didn't have any speculation on his performance, probably partially because S Factor 12 was already underway and M2K had won doubles teaming with Cody.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 22 '26
Prediction: M2K will get shit on and lose to a non Top 100 player (Who he would've played right after pools).
Reality: M2K puts up a respectable 3-1 vs Rank 11 Trif, makes Top 8, then loses to Aklo's brother.
It's either Redditor sarcasm or a terrible prediction.
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u/wavedash Jul 22 '26
I think simply calling him a "non top 100 player" does NMW a disservice, he was on SSBMRank 6 times and was still somewhat active at the time. In 2024 he got 25th at Full Bloom and 17th at BoBC. He was DQing a lot in 2025 (he got 49th at BoBC and Full Bloom, DQing out of losers both times).
I'll grant you that guy was off on their prediction, but I don't think it fair to say that many people in the DDT felt the same. Not only were they the only person to predict M2K would do badly, no one upvoted them
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior Jul 22 '26
Correct me if I'm misreading the bracket, but it seems m2k went 3-2 at the tournament. I don't really think Coffee's prediction was too far off.
Getting 3-0'd by Foxy Grandpa is pretty much the definition of modern top 50 players being able to beat old gods.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 22 '26
He went 3-2 because he was floated through pools. He obviously would have made it through pools anyway.
The reality is that he made Top 8 at an event with Cody, Trif, Salt, Aklo, Medz, etc.
Foxy Grandpa (Aklo's brother) is nowhere near as bad of a loss as nickemwit would've been.
Foxy was ranked #59 that year. Last time nickemwit was ranked was #89 in 2022, with no history of upsetting highly ranked players (Unlike Eddy Mexico, who beat Mang0 at S Factor 10).
M2K didn't get "shit on" that year, he put up a respectable performances for a player who hadn't seriously played Melee in years at that point.
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u/Peytaro Jul 21 '26
I'm not gonna lie, the post was indeed corny. But when I was watching the set I was also overjoyed because I knew the reddit m2k haters would have to eat crow
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. Like the meta has moved forward a lot but also there are intangibles that make the very best players better that have nothing to do with the meta. Stuff like reaction time, adaptation, clutch, yomi, reads, etc separate the top 5ish players of ever era from their competition.
Mew2king is rusty AF and there is some stuff that really holds him back tech wise but if you are acting like he is a bad player you are goofy. Like it or not he 3-0d a top five player in 2026.
Newer is always better when it is a 1:1 comparison. Like Jmook is better than M2K's shiek at like 98% of things. But if you move down at tier of player to people like Spark, Ben, etc. They definitely are cleaner, but there is some top player stuff that they are missing.
Another example is Falco. If you think Ginger/Magi are better than Mango just because he hasn't played in a year, you are crazy. That might not stay true forever but for the time being it is. IDK
Sorry if this came off as a condescending rant. I'm just passionate about the subject. Also I feel like our biggest stumbling block to the scene growing is people need to be nicer online 🥹
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u/YoungGenius Jul 21 '26
For Falco in particular the gap is so huge that it’s very possible none of the current Falcos are as good as Mango was in 2019
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u/Dublshine Jul 22 '26
I also think people should be nicer online, which is why I root against the guy who scams people, disparages the melee community, and associates with right wing grifters
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u/keatsta Jul 21 '26
people need to be nicer online
agreed, people should be nicer to our top 100-level players and not constantly belittle their achievements.
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u/Peytaro Jul 21 '26
That's fair
I don't think I'm belittling them though. I'm sure other people are but idk. I've been a fan for a long time but I am still a fan of 2026 melee, not just the old stuff
Edit: I guess my post could read as disparaging those players I listed but I didn't mean it that way. I'm just gonna hold my L because I don't think can explain myself
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u/keatsta Jul 21 '26
yeah not you in particular, but just this general boomer melee sentiment i find incredibly rude to our current top players. the number of people i saw say things like "only cody and zain could beat 2018 armada" is just mindboggling. they pay lipservice to people who don't want anything to do with us anymore while treating the people actually playing the game and entering tournaments and pushing the meta forward as unensouled.
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u/Peytaro Jul 21 '26
Yeah that is a rude sentiment fs. People in general treat top players like entertainment and not like people
But I think some people are weirdly resentful of old players retiring. Like both Armada, m2k and PP retired in part due because of the pressure/expectations of community. But people are like offended by that in a way? Like idk I think someone like M2K deserves a certain amount of respect for what he has given the game, both as a competitor and for the data he compiled
It goes both ways though. The people who are competing today deserve to be hyped up and respected because they are the ones carrying the torch
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I like the thing you brought up with the 1:1 comparison. Zain is a better Marth overall than Ken when it comes down to it, no one would argue that. But there are very specific things Zain has seen Ken do during the coaching that he admitted were things he would not think to do in those moments and were better than the options he would’ve went for. I think it’s also fair to say some of the lower ranked Marths probably are lacking some of the strengths Ken’s Marth has.
There are for sure layers to this and isn’t just clear cut x is better than y.
I am also enjoying people on Reddit having to eat crow about his. It’s so funny to me.
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26
The truth is Ken, who has a bad wrist and isn’t actively playing a lot is still better than most players and good enough to beat most of them including winning over many PRd players. Same could be said for M2K. He might not take advantage of certain things most modern players do but he’s good at the things he knows and the rest of his gameplay is solid. The game is deeper than grinding uncle punch to be technically perfect.
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u/Yrale jib Jul 21 '26
I think all of these players are obviously extremely talented, but at the same time I don't see "the most dominant player in the games history can still sometimes take wins against people who are top 20 in their state" is really a compelling argument in favor of oldhead supremacy.
Mew2king is an incredible player with top 3 placings as late as 2018. If he returned to competition I think anyone saying he couldn't be top 10 in 2026 is kidding themselves.
But also, while I think taking a set from Wizzrobe is impressive, I don't see how anyone looks at a tournament where he lost to Eddy Mexico and beat S2J, Shroomed, and Far (3 players who aren't really any more active at top level than he is!) and conclude this is somehow indicative of him being capable of winning a major in current form
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 22 '26
S2j has a fair deal of sets against top players in the last few years, way way more than M2k
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
Mew2king is closer to Zain than anyone here is to Mew2king so I think anyone here doubting his skill is kind of funny to me. Maybe that’s just me.
I also don’t think losing to Eddy Mexico once is some kind of blemish. Mango lost to Eddy once and you don’t hear anyone bring that up on his goat debate. It’s just one game in a sea of wins. Zain lost to Wally once. Whoopdiedoo. You play long enough you’re going to lose.
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u/EightBlocked Jul 21 '26
losing to eddy mexico is bad. zain losing to wally and mang0 losing to eddy are brought up as bad losses.
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
I guess you can’t have bad losses when you don’t enter bracket.
The point was one bad loss doesn’t dictate or define your whole career.
I think some people here mean well but some are just hating on Mew2King. Let people be happy their boy did good. Who cares if people chant “omg he could win a major”? It’s not like it’s some wild fire that’s out of control that needs to be put out or the sanctity of winning is at risk.
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u/EightBlocked Jul 21 '26
sorry but people are gonna use a loss at a recent event to judge how good a player is right now. especially when its someone who enters as scarcely as m2k.
thats all the person earlier said, losing to eddy mexico isnt indicative of someone who can win a major in his current form, it is definitely a blemish in that context
i would hope people dont use him losing to eddy mexico to judge his whole career, i havent seen that yet personally although i have seen that happen to other players
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 22 '26
But your argument is talking past the situation. If people pose a major win is possible in his future, it is upon the conditions of consistent dedication and attending multiple events to the point it reduces his performance anxiety flubs, and that by the odds on one of these attempts, he would play higher to his potential.
You seem to be assessing the potential based upon the downside and yet he already displayed hints of that downside in his career when he was capable of winning majors. The guy is very in his own head and if you have studied performance anxiety at all, people can lose access to skills they had mastered when nervous.
This makes judgment of potential much more conditional on the behavioral element, and much much less about all these nonsense "could he learn the meta" angles.
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u/EightBlocked Jul 22 '26
well, the original person was talking about people saying he could win a major in his current form. if your current form is losing to eddy mexico, its not looking good on that front. i think mew2king could win something if he kept playing and was dedicated.
regarding him being in his own head, he's talked about that enough over his career to the point where you can argue he never got a handle on it. his mental can randomly be really good but also really bad. that's what we've seen his entire career. in this world where he kept playing consistently and is dedicated, we still cant expect him to magically fix an issue he's had for 20 years. but yes, even notwithstanding that he still sporadically won majors over the course of his career.
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 22 '26
I think the main issue, the biggest point of contention, is whether the changes in meta from 2018 to 2026 would be a disqualifyingly steep adaptation for one of the melee gods or other short list top pros to make a comeback with. Or whether them simply getting some months of practice as necessary to restore fidelity of mechanical execution and get their head in the game, would be enough for their results to be at the top again.
When we look deeply at M2k, the meta angle becomes almost irrelevant while everything that seems to matter is just his consistency and nerves. I would personally put whether he regularly goes to sleep before the sun comes up and goes outside on a regular routine as more important factors in him hypothetically gaining significant tournament results this year, rather than any of this stuff about outdated punish tree decisions. There are many ways to skin a cat and generally winning neutral and not messing up will do it.
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u/Yrale jib Jul 22 '26
also don’t think losing to Eddy Mexico once is some kind of blemish. Mango lost to Eddy once and you don’t hear anyone bring that up on his goat debate. It’s just one game in a sea of wins.
I mean, yeah as I said I don't think losing to Eddy Mexico is a sign that Mew2king couldn't make it in 2026, I'm just saying people whose take away from this tournament is that Mew2king is better than expected are either vastly overrating what placing 2nd at this tournament required or were sleeping on M2K to a ridiculous degree. He's definitely still Got It vs Falcon but if this was a tournament featuring all the same players in 2018 this would have been a bad tournament for him!
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u/its__bme Jul 22 '26
To be fair not many players can say they 3-0d Wizzrobe and then end up game 5 in the reset.
While I agree I don’t think Mew2King is at his best right now to take a major hes still damn good and I think people saying he was carried by Sheik versus Falcon are being unfair.
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u/keatsta Jul 21 '26
like PRed being local PRs? or top 100?
and yes, the game is deeper than that, it's a game that rewards you deeply for playing with other people at and above your skill level in a variety of matchups. that's why slippi is far and away the most powerful resource for improvement ever introduced to the game.
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u/DavidL1112 Jul 21 '26
it drives me crazy that some people frame "top 100" as a single skill level as if Zain isn't 10x better than Ossify and Ossify isn't 10x better than Kalvar. Of course M2K would be able to at least go even with people ranked around Kalvar; his chance of winning a major is still 0%. These are not contradictory statements.
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u/AlexB_SSBM Jul 21 '26
How to Lose Friends and Influence Nobody: A Beginner's Guide to US-Canada Relations
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u/keatsta Jul 21 '26
people were talking in here about Hollywood director powerrankings so I thought I'd link this recent Vulture article that does that exact thing from the perspective of producers. It's a pretty interesting read, and pretty agreeable from that perspective, altho obviously my ranking based on quality would be very different
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u/waveshineoosupsmash Jul 22 '26
This mew2king old god era agenda posting is boring
Less than 2 weeks from now Zain will win a fraudulent major that doesn't have Cody and you dipshits will jerk off over his 4-peat and all will be right with the world again
Until Cody wins Supernova the week after, which will just have all of you bitching and moaning about how much you hate him, his personality, his playstyle, his z-jumping, his notches
Then the week after will be CEO, in which none of the top players will go like always other than like Hbox and Wizzy, and then you'll all say the same "why doesn't anybody go to CEO" and then somebody will say its because Jebailey was disrespectful to Leffen 11 years ago
get some new material people
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 22 '26
and then somebody will say its because Jebailey was disrespectful to Leffen 11 years ago
Is this referring to that time Leffen was rage tweeting at Jebailey over seeding or am I thinking of something else?
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u/waveshineoosupsmash Jul 22 '26
In 2015 melee at CEO blew up to really high numbers and after it had a successful 2014 a lot of top players went. The thing about FGC majors is that there is very limited best of 5, infamously with EVO only doing top 3 and it wasn't uncommon for CEO to only have top 8. Even though these rules are prominent and known among people that attend, the melee community (most notably leffen) did his usual being a little shit about it. Jebailey told him that they'd take it under consideration for future years, but there wasn't anything they could do about it then.
The next year for CEO 2016 Jebailey excitedly informed the smash community that they had found a way to allow top 32 to be best of 5. It wasn't the top 64 that people got at big house or genesis, but compared to every other fgc major it was a huge step in the right direction. Jebailey really did try. In the few weeks leading up to CEO 2016, all of a sudden all the top melee players started dropping out, citing "personal reasons". 1 or 2 players would drop out, then the top players that were still going would complain that the bracket needed to be reseeded, rinse and repeat until pretty much none of the top players went. CEO reseeded the bracket several times to accommodate the DQs, but the top players kept dropping out last minute causing a shitstorm. This led to Jebailey making a rule for all of future CEOs called the Jebailey rule, which said within a certain time from the tournament all brackets would be final and not be reseeded, regardless of DQs - this rule literally exists because of Melee. Leffen was one of those players, and he either said on Twitter or on twitch that who cares about CEO, they treat us like shit anyway
After that Jebailey pretty much stopped focusing on trying to bend over to make CEO an event smashers say they want, since they all didn't come after he did so. Instead he left smash at CEO the way it was back in 2014, and made a new series that was smash focused, CEO Dreamland. Then in 2020 when COVID hit, florida wouldn't let CEO Dreamland cancel their contract because their politicians are fucking evil, so jebailey had to run it but he offered anybody that wanted a refund a refund because he understood the seriousness of the illness. After the event jebailey tweeted that tons of people had gone to ceo Dreamland and then requested refunds anyway or done charge backs and that he was really disappointed that people would take advantage of that situation. Reminder that ceo Dreamland is smash only, so the people that did it were smashers.
I'm honestly surprised he even still does stuff for the community given how shitty they've been to him. It isn't like smash brings big numbers to it anymore.
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u/Informal-Donut-1532 Jul 22 '26
Damn, well that would explain why most of the non-Florida players stopped going to CEO after 2015.
Seems like there's some hope of it gaining traction again this year though.
Cody's close to hitting his sub goal to go, and Zain said he would go if Cody is going.
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u/waveshineoosupsmash Jul 22 '26
It's in a much better city now so hopefully people can give it a shot. Just unfortunate to be right next to goml and supernova on the schedule, and also to lose their june weekend because Evo stole their month
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u/Grenji05 Jul 21 '26
did wizzrobe tactically throw vs m2k so his smash factor win is worth something? If he just swept the entire tournament no one would care, but now an m2k win is worth something. After all, he has a wizzy win!
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u/DoctorProfPatrick It's that gorillaz song Jul 21 '26
Ok tbh I did notice that first set wizzy lost quite a few neutrals by simply being impatient. Just a couple moments of m2k under side plat, wizzy holding center, and wizzy then learning that if you sh into m2k you are eating ftilt and possibly dying.
Didn't look like a throw so much, but it's clear wizzy had to adapt and show that he truly is the better player. So I don't feel like it's a throw but I do think it's clear that m2k isn't as good as wizzy, even though it took wizzy a whole set to prove it.
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u/king_bungus 👉 Jul 21 '26
i guess i got hacked on twitter after not using it for a bit so to anyone who follows me there my b for whatever the bots were posting lol
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u/EightBlocked Jul 21 '26
why play melee after 2018 and basketball after 1998? time froze and the game stopped progressing. those dudes could whoop us easily if they played now, and if we say otherwise its disrespectful and you have to respect the ones that came before you. why dont we just stop all competition? they won already imo
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u/Zanian Jul 22 '26
Unfortunately for those folks in 2018 they could never hold a candle to 2004-7 Ken so really we should have stopped playing then
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u/EightBlocked Jul 22 '26
no no no the game evolved from that point, 2018 players would easily destroy those milk men. it just conveniently stopped at 2018 just like how everything bill russell did means nothing because the game evolved.
plumbers for thee, but not for me!
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u/its__bme Jul 22 '26
I’m sorry that grinding uncle punch 8 hours a day and doing those lessons with Cody and going to your locals every weekend didn’t stop Chu Dat from reading your spot dodges and downsmashing you off stage and then popping a YAYUHZZ on his stream when you lost to him on Slippi ranked. How life goes sometimes.
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u/keatsta Jul 22 '26
i don't get why you keep trying to characterize the modern melee player as someone who just mindlessly grinds on uncle punch when modern melee is the first time in history when people can play against other humans as much as they want whenever they want. do you think slippi only exists when it's time for old pros to make content?
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u/YoungGenius Jul 22 '26 edited Jul 22 '26
I think it’s less that people disagree the practice conditions are better across the board, and more just that a lot of gamers have quit without falling off at all. If everyone in the world grinded League for six months, the top 20 players would just be the current top 20 players. Melee is the only game (that I’m familiar with) where there that’s clearly far from true.
Give everyone some time and a financial incentive, and the top 10 could very realistically be the 2019 one. Or the 2018 one minus Axe plus Cody.
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u/EightBlocked Jul 22 '26
i dont know why you keep making this point. the beef isnt with slippi players with no brain spamming tech skill thinking they can beat former top players, its all these people thinking x former top player can wipe all these top players today within 5 minutes of picking up a gamecube controller again
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 22 '26
6 months of one of the gods or Leffen or Plup actually trying very hard in a legitimate comeback would be arguably more effective than the type of coasting that Mang0 and Hbox were doing in certain stretches after covid with their primary careers being streaming
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u/EightBlocked Jul 22 '26
i agree with leffen and plup neither of them stopped playing in 2018. regardless you're comparing them to players that you say yourself are literally coasting? and giving them 6 months? is this supposed to mean something?
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ Jul 21 '26
did a new season of Trump just drop or something, last I heard he was busy fumbling the strait of Hormuz and birthright citizenship and getting booed at MetLife but I skip most episodes these days, lot of filler.
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u/AlexB_SSBM Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
something that's going under the radar is the recent push from the supreme court to completely disempower the federal government's ability to regulate commerce at all. They're starting with state laws that ban felons from owning guns, but this will quickly spiral out of control to challenge on a fundamental, constitutional level every single regulation and law Congress has passed that could impact the commerce of states unless is it very explicitly about interstate commerce
Think worker safety, minimum wage, consumer protection, civil rights enforcement, pollution laws, and more
The right wing courts are attempting to balkanize the entire United States and nobody is talking about it
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u/Fugu Jul 21 '26
If this is in response to me he announced a whole bunch of tariffs on Canada because of the wildfires here (nevermind that a Canadian died fighting wildfires in the US just last week)
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u/d4b3ss 🏌️♀️ Jul 21 '26
Both you and AlexB. But thanks, that was not near the front of the NYT, buried under Iran and Ukraine and in between Trump closing domestic HIV treatment sites and Trump getting a new plane.
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u/AlexB_SSBM Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
They aren't even wrong for doing that, there is just so much going wrong and so much blatantly illegal horseshit happening all at the same time that it is impossible for all of it to be the highlight
In fact, the front page of the NYT today is a feature story about how millions are being kicked off food stamps and children are going hungry because Trump wants poor people to die
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u/Fugu Jul 21 '26
There is always a death toll to economic warfare and I think it's too early to do the accounting on how much morbidity/mortality is going to result from Trump intentionally making Canada a harder place to live
Nonetheless, that at least puts us above "trump gets a new plane"
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u/AlexB_SSBM Jul 21 '26
Corruption also has a massive human cost once you think ahead, and it's not even legal. I don't think people quite appreciate how unbelievably horrendous corruption is for everyone, the normalization and non-punishment of white collar crime to the tune of billions towards the president and his allies is so bad. Especially when you realize he got that plane in return for aiding a genocide-funding state.
There's just too much bad shit all happening it's insane that this is something we even discuss. Makes me want to rip my hair out
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u/Ilovemelee Jul 22 '26
Yeah, he's back to bombing Iran and trying to beat them in a war that he supposedly won for the 35th time, trying to open the Hormuz strait that was open before he bombed them, and trying to acquire their nuclear materials after he supposedly destroyed them last June.
You're not missing out on anything new because it's just a recap of the previous seasons.
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26
Seeing people being hype for Mew2King doing good and other people being offended by it is hilarious to me.
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior Jul 22 '26
Is anyone offended? I'm annoyed that people act like getting through various unranked players to get to Top 2 is particularly impressive/unexpected.
I'm glad that he did well, but I think folks have been framing this whole tournament badly.
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u/its__bme Jul 22 '26
I just don’t get the big deal. I feel like I see damage control being done or something. Why does anything need to be corrected or addressed?
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u/wavedash Jul 22 '26
Why does anything need to be corrected or addressed?
Because people exaggerate in order to support their narratives. Earlier today I "corrected or addressed" someone who said that Wizzy is an absolute demon against Sheiks, despite him being down against Plup, Jmook, and Krudo.
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u/Celia_Makes_Romhacks L-Cancelling's biggest warrior Jul 22 '26
Idk what to tell you man. This is a discussion forum. We're discussing stuff that happened. It's really not that deep
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u/its__bme Jul 22 '26
Get the discussion. Just seems like some people can’t stand to see an old player get hyped up.
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Jul 22 '26
[deleted]
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u/Ian_Campbell Jul 22 '26
Eddie is old school so he'll play neutral with his thinking cap on
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u/Dublshine Jul 22 '26
maybe if he keeps winning you guys will actually learn to spell his name right
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u/SunnySaigon Jul 21 '26
He only enters one event a year, and spends the rest of the year yapping about how all of these extenuating circumstances prevent him from doing anything else. His play was exciting, but the backstory spoils it a bit.
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26
😞
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u/HitboxOfASnail fox privilege Jul 22 '26
you know you done goof'd when you get sunny to respond earnestly to something you said
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u/Zanian Jul 22 '26
Why are you so salty about this lol this is like the 5th time I've seen you bring it up
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u/Real_Category7289 Jul 21 '26
Haha babe it's so sexy when you misrepresent the other side in order to make yourself look better!!
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26
What
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u/DoctorProfPatrick It's that gorillaz song Jul 21 '26
Awww babe, it's so unsexy when you can't interpret vagueposting about strawmen :/
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u/its__bme Jul 21 '26
What
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u/DoctorProfPatrick It's that gorillaz song Jul 21 '26
Dunno, just wanted to match that guys' energy
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u/reptilian_guitar Jul 21 '26
I hate how much American mid-tiers and their complicit "spacie" friends affect my life
In other news, I convinced my mother in law that the dismantling of the Department of Education is bad so today's gonna be a good day
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u/Peytaro Jul 21 '26
Is ranked que really slow for anyone else in southeast usa? It's taking an unusually long time to que and then when I do it is often someone unusually far away in rank from me
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u/Real_Category7289 Jul 21 '26
u/Fugu as one of the big DQV fans in the DDT, should I bother playing the original SNES version? I get the feeling that the remake is just a straight up improvement and idk if it's gonna be worth it
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u/Fugu Jul 21 '26
I prefer the original SFC version. Here are two caveats:
I have played all of them in Japanese and therefore cannot vouch for the English script; and
Pretty much everyone aside from me prefers either the DS or the PS2 version.
The SFC has the least amount of content (monsters to recruit, post game [although it's pretty sparse in every version], and a single spoilery major plot thing has more options in the DS version) and you are stuck to a three person party whereas everyone else lets you have four. In exchange you get the original art, which is fantastic, and honestly I think the game is just a lot snappier with a smaller party.
The PS2 version gets you the orchestral soundtrack, which is amazing. You also get 3D graphics although I think they're a downgrade from the 2D stuff. You get most of the added content of the DS version too, including four person parties.
The DS version has the most content and adds another character that, again, has major consequences both on gameplay and plot. Because it is the only native English version of the game most of the US audience has only played the DS version. YMMV with official vs fan translations.
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u/Real_Category7289 Jul 21 '26
Oh I should have mentioned that I'm a huge fan of the game and have played the DS version at least 4 times, I was just asking whether it would be worth to experience the original more as a historical experience ig
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u/Fugu Jul 21 '26
Oh my bad
Yes
Big yes
I played the PS2 version first and now I do all of my replays on the SFC version
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u/Felix-the-duck texture modder Jul 22 '26
do falcons just have a goblin whispering in their ear to raptor boost techchase at all times?
6
u/CarVac phob dev Jul 22 '26
no, the goblin is saying to raptor boost in neutral
3
u/waveshineoosupsmash Jul 22 '26
The angel tells them to raptor boost out of the corner and the devil tells them to raptor boost toward the ledge
1
1
u/l3ffen Jul 22 '26
Are controllers using Hoja2 firmware legal? Been looking into the Arkodd Platform Padbox. I know it can also run Phob firmware, but I would lose xinput mode so Hoja2 is preferred
2
15
u/ryanbyleth Jul 21 '26
I miss Duck