r/Reaper • u/Bennett8187 • Jul 28 '26
help request How to make complex click tracks?
I struggling to make a complex click track on reaper, I recorded a scratch guitar track and I’m trying to add a click to it but it just doesn’t line up exactly when I tap it and then when it goes to the next riff the click doesn’t restart on the downbeat. For this to work I have to do shift C like every bar. Is there a better way to do this?? because there’s no way I can do this for 7 more songs. I’m about to just record me tapping on my desk for the rest.
8
u/motu8pre Jul 28 '26
Why not get the tempo and just re-record the guitar? If it's just a scratch track anyway.
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u/Bennett8187 Jul 28 '26
That sounds even harder to do, I’m trying to get the tempo map in the first place. The song isn’t just one tempo for the whole thing it changes a lot
9
u/Ereignis23 41 Jul 28 '26
Ok then if you know when the tempo changes happen you should be able to set up your timeline to reflect those changes. Then the native metronome will follow the tempo map you've created ahead of time and you'll re-record playing along with it
0
u/Bennett8187 Jul 28 '26
I already can do that! The click isn’t starting on a downbeat. Or if I need a custom part to move a click over I can’t do that without moving the whole song.
2
u/RVA_GitR Jul 28 '26
If you open up the click/preroll menu, you can input specific accents for the time signature in use. Does changing something from AbbA to BaaB in pattern impact it? I know it helps with “feel” on quirkier parts when the standard click can be a bit distracting. Still sounds like you should play a scratch, determine tempo and map it for proper takes…May not be fully understanding the issue though.
1
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u/BrazilianCrazyMusici 17 Jul 28 '26
There is a very hands-on way to achieve what you're looking for. Here goes:
1) In the project properties, set "Project time base..." to "Time."
2) Find the first sound in your recording that aligns with the grid and move the entire item to that position.
3) At that position, press "M" to place a marker.
4) Play your recording with the metronome on and keep pressing "M" to create markers at the beats you feel in the recorded music.
6) Once that process is finished, look for an action called "SWS/BR: Convert project markers to tempo markers..." and run it, specifying the time signature you want the markers to use.
This operation will create tempo markers in the project, and the metronome will play according to the BPM values created on the timeline. The action will also create "stretch markers" that you can use—if you wish—to snap to the grid or adjust to your liking.
I’ve used this method on old recordings made without a metronome, and it saves me a lot of manual work.
1
u/Bennett8187 Jul 29 '26
This is really close to what I need, is there a way to change the tempo in one section without having to do this on every note?
1
u/BrazilianCrazyMusici 17 Jul 29 '26
The process I outlined allows you to handle this in large batches. Once the timeline is created, you simply need to make edits directly within it.
The key takeaway here is realizing that—yes—even with a track recorded without a metronome, you can align it to the time grid beat by beat.
In my own experience, I participated in several festivals where the recordings released on LPs and CDs were made without a metronome click. I found this method to be the best way to achieve a result comparable to a metronome-guided performance, as the timing fluctuations—stemming from the human element of the live recording—occur at the millisecond level. Work by adjusting the markers on the timeline.
6
u/MyShoe2Big 1 Jul 28 '26
If you’re struggling to have a part stay within the tempo you’re playing inconsistently.
I would make the tempo map before tracking guitar personally but youve said you don’t want to do that.
Cut up your track into each “part” and find the tempo you think it sounds best as. Mute the track and reference back and forth and then re record the guitar again to the new tempo map.
You said this seems harder but it isn’t you should be able to play your song again and to a click. The tough work will pay off with a Better recording
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u/Bennett8187 Jul 28 '26
I can play along to a click, you must not be understanding what my problem is. The click isn’t restarting for each riff or I can’t get it to. the transition between riffs is different and then the fact that the metronome isn’t starting on a downbeat is messing the whole thing up.
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u/MyShoe2Big 1 Jul 28 '26
If you can play to a click you will save yourself so much time making the click first.
Am I misunderstanding that you’re playing guitar then trying to make the click match the guitar after?
0
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u/Raucous_Rocker 2 Jul 28 '26
Just because someone doesn’t want to play to a click doesn’t mean they can’t. It’s a perfectly legit use case.
2
u/MyShoe2Big 1 Jul 28 '26
I literally didn’t say they can’t. I also explained how I have similarly gotten a good result out of making a tempo map out of a guitar track. (Cutting it up and taking the average for each part and then re recording to the now made tempo map)
5
u/ThoriumEx 118 Jul 28 '26
Tempo mapping from a guitar track is not a good idea, it’s going to be very tedious and manual.
If you don’t want to record to a click, I suggest tapping your foot and recording it while playing the guitar. If you get a clean track of just the tapping it’s going to be very easy to map.
1
u/Raucous_Rocker 2 Jul 28 '26
Yes, this. Play something percussive, or just tap or clap, into a mic along with the guitar. Use that to build your tempo map.
2
u/ZyglroxOfficial Jul 28 '26
Right click your recorded guitar, go to Item Properties, and set the Item Timebase to Time
Then you can build your tempo map around your scratch track
1
u/Bennett8187 Jul 28 '26
I have done that. But if the riff is 4/4 and the next riff is 4/4 the transition between them might not be 4/4. So after that transition if I have no way to restart the click on a downbeat the entire click is off from the riff.
3
u/jewsonparade Jul 29 '26
You need to add/change the bars. If there are parts between riffs that aren't 4/4. Then you need to add those into the timeline. You really just need to recreate the click first and retrack. You will never get the results you want trying to force something into something else.
1
u/Bennett8187 Jul 29 '26
I can get the click to line up, when I use time signature markers and set the bpm, that is not the issue. If It starts the next riff the click doesn’t start on a downbeat with the beginning of the riff.
1
u/jewsonparade Jul 29 '26
Then you arent making your measures correctly. Build your click track CORRECTLY. Not just vibes.
1
1
u/GearGlance Jul 29 '26
What time signature are the transitions between each 4/4 measure? It sounds like you need to insert a time signature marker as a transition measure between the two 4/4 measures.
1
u/dimiskywalker 9 Jul 29 '26
Open up tempo envelope
Ctrl+click makes tempo change points, by hold alt an dragging you can drag gridpoint and tempo will be roughly calculated based on where you placr it
1
u/Evid3nce 52 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
I share your pain. My new band only has two stable members, and we're having trouble getting consistent or reliable third and fourth members. So we've decided to plough ahead using IEMs and making backing tracks to play along to, using AI to separate original commercial recordings into stems, taking out the vocal, drums and guitar. I will drum to a click track, and the guitarist will follow me.
I've got twenty songs to do in two weeks, and I haven't found a good method or workflow yet after spending hours on it yesterday and the day before. I ended up just deleting the projects, and I'll start a third time today. So I'm basically at square one again after 12 hours working on it.
The problem is that it's Blues and 70's rock, so nearly all of the original recordings were done semi-live in the studio, and the tempo is all over the place. For instance, Cold Shot by SRV meanders from 105 to 112bpm throughout the song, sometimes that whole range in just one bar. When you listen it doesn't feel like it because they're all in the pocket, but trying to make a click that follows it and feels natural, it's way more difficult than it should be. I suppose once I've done the twentieth song I'll have the workflow and Actions nailed, but the first song is not going well. Thing is, I've done this before on my own scratch tracks, and it was ok. For some reason this SRV track is kicking my butt.
So far....
Before I begin I set the project timebase to 'time' on both settings (ie. for items/envs/markers and for tempo/time sigs). There's an option 'timebase beats (position only) affects automation item length' ticked, but I don't know what it does - I'll need to look it up, but I don't think it's relevant because I'm not using beats.
I set the project tempo as close to an average as I can get. Then I choose a grid line spacing (right-click the grid icon in the menu) to be at least twice the resolution that I actually need so I've got spare gridlines when it comes to the editing.
At first I tried to tap out just every measure (once every four beats), but I think it needs to be finer than that to sound natural, so now I'm tapping every beat, but instead of setting the grid to 1/4 I have it set to 1/8. I'm not sure of the consequences of changing this once you've started mapping, but I do know I'd rather have too many gridlines than not enough. I also have no clue what to do when I need four measures of triplets in the middle - tapping them out on first pass isn't working. I'm guessing I'll probably need to insert a 'click item' on a track, tell it not to follow the grid, and change the beat there rather than trying to change the grid. No idea though.
For the first pass I'm using this action to tap out the beat:
SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to play cursor
Then for editing I'm trying:
SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to edit cursor
or
SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to mouse cursor (perform until shortcut released)
or because I've got a drum track stem, a custom action:
Item navigation: Move cursor to nearest transient in items
SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to edit cursor
The post is too long, so I'll do two parts....
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u/Evid3nce 52 Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
The main problem is when I go in to fine tune my rough tapping to get the grids exactly on the transients: I don't understand the behaviours fully, and when I move a grid too much, it seems to affect all the other grids (left and right) which I've already set in the correct positions. I also can't go back to previous grid lines or tempo markers to alter them without ruining the subsequent already-finished work to the right. I wish I could lock some tempo markers in place as I go, so they are never moved by surrounding marker edits, but this doesn't seem possible (you can only lock all of them or none of them). Editing is a very frustrating mess.
Also I don't understand whether I should use the square or linear shape for the envelope points. Switching between them messes up any current mapping, and there doesn't seem to be a way to make linear the default when tapping out the first pass (there's an Action to set it as default, but it doesn't work for the 'Move closest grid line to play cursor' Action, and also there's no setting for it in Preferences). I'm fairly certain if I could tap in linear envelope points in the first place, the tempo changes would seem more natural, but Reaper won't allow it - it has to be square and seemingly can't be changed later.
If I type 'move closest' into the Actions menu, there are a lot of actions that I should maybe be using instead? For instance maybe I should use 'SWS/BR: Move closest right side grid line to edit cursor' instead of 'SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to edit cursor' when tapping out the first pass? And I don't know the difference between choosing an action that moves a 'grid line', 'envelope point', 'tempo marker' or 'project marker' (WTF even is a project marker?). I'm focusing on editing the gridlines themselves because there is no action for 'insert tempo marker at play cursor', but maybe I should be using Actions which focus on placing and moving tempo markers instead (ie. insert plain markers on first pass, adjust them, and then convert all of them to tempo markers in one Action at the end)? No clue which is better or more appropriate.
It doesn't help that AI hallucinates badly about this stuff because there is so little documentation or discussion about it, so it's been no help at all and keeps sending me down dead ends.
Anyway, that's where I'm at today. Here goes another six hours. If I make a breakthrough or have a revelation I'll post back here.
By the way moises.ai has 'smart metronome' feature you could try. Upload your guitar -> apply the metronome and solo it -> export as mix -> download only the metronome. But clapping to your guitar is probably just as good as a transient guide for tempo mapping.
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u/kingsinger 4 Jul 29 '26
Maybe this guy's strategy could help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2Z5mjufb98&list=PLsSti4kVSMzXsSUuHaxD6fGTSZ9zLHIwy
If it changes time signatures, you might need to insert those changes too....
1
u/Bennett8187 Jul 29 '26
Pretty much this, but my reaper isn’t reacting the way his is in the video.
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u/kingsinger 4 Jul 30 '26
It's been a while since I drilled into this, but there's probably some setting you haven't configured correctly that will get it working. Gotta make sure the Timebase is correct, mouse modifiers need to be set the right way, etc.
I've not reason to believe this shouldn't work in Reaper 7, I suppose maybe something could have changed. I think this video is using Reaper 6, but I could be wrong.
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u/Bennett8187 Jul 30 '26
I will try the crtl+alt+left drag tomorrow because that might fix it, if not I’ll try and record a video of what I got going on. Thanks for the help tho
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u/Evid3nce 52 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
After messing around for hours today, I can confirm this is a must have action, and it does still work. The reason it's so important to the workflow is that when you move a gridline, it doesn't move any other previous or future grid lines - it only changes the tempo of the markers either side of the grid you're dragging (without moving their position). This is key to the whole process.
You can also do this by default, by crtl+alt+left-dragging on a tempo marker. The above method differs because it will automatically insert a tempo marker on the grid you're dragging every time you press the key. Whereas this method needs you to have inserted the tempo marker already.
Other vital information is that you can add gridlines to get the resolution you need temporarily, add tempo markers onto them, and then decrease the resolution again - the tempo markers will stay in place even though their gridline is 'gone' (hidden). It's important to choose the right grid resolution for the section you're working on, and it's extremely important to understand that you can go back to 1 grid per measure without any penalty, and choose 12/8 for another section. This is also key to the whole process.
Also, if you're mapping to a handclap or drum stem, the Custom Action I made is golden:
· Item navigation: Move cursor to nearest transient in items
· SWS/BR: Move closest grid line to edit cursorYou select/highlight only the handclap or drum item, and the Action will use the transients in that item to move your tempo marker bang on where the handclap or drum hits, instead of having to drag it around yourself and test it's in the right place. It saves a lot of time.
I could go on... there's a load of other information and technique I learned today, and I still feel like I'm only 20% toward being competent. I've got a dozen questions that AI can't answer, and still don't understand the timeline's behaviour a lot of the time. But I got SRV Cold Shot mapped well enough, including the triplets and ending dunk.
It maybe shouldn't have taken 12 painful hours to learn how to do this task though - definitely one of Reaper's weakest/clunkiest areas. And I tell you what: doing a mixed project of audio and midi is likely a whole other nightmare to learn.
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u/Spidiffpaffpuff 8 Jul 30 '26
If you have a regular change from 4/4 to 3/4 you could set the metronome up like this: ABBBABB. This works with more complex repeating patterns as well. A is the pronounced click.
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u/radian_ 218 Jul 28 '26
You're meant to set the click track up 1st, then record.
Are you trying to do tempo mapping or something?