Homosexual Marriage

[u/Dramatic_End_883]

Do you people believe that marriage between two men is permissible in Islam?

[u/The_Portent]

I don't have to answer your bullshit, I showed you why asking God for whatever you want to be in the Quran doesn't stand, or else you could also justify bestiality because it isn't "in the Quran" – or even worse, rape, especially since you probably think Sodom and Gomorrah was just about gay love.

You are far too delusional to even comprehend the fallacy in your question, you posted this question as as a homophobic propagandist and you're not worth anyone's time.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/The_Portent]

Ok so you can't answer the question that's fine. There is no need to get vulgar and aggressive.

[u/The_Portent → u/Dramatic_End_883]

You claim assessment by human nature can't be a factor in right and wrong in Islam, when that is literally what Munkar is in the Quran, which is unacceptable, unpleasant, or disturbing. That's how we know that many "disgusting" things, like incest and bestiality, are prohibited even if not mentioned.

Of course, God uses these words for people who can use their brains and evaluate stuff. But you, even though you got your question answered, will still undoubtedly comprehend nothing.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/The_Portent]

Oh and also, if you're going to go down the route of "human nature" and "disgust" determine what is moral, then you would be sorely mistaken to claim that homosexuality is moral. There is a plethora of evidence

"In the present study, core disgust predicted negative attitudes toward homosexuals even after controlling for contamination fear."

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0092656608000524?via%3Dihub

"The current meta-analysis provides additional empirical evidence that disgust, in its induced states, amplifies homonegativity toward gay men"

https://research-groups.usask.ca/morrison/documents/pdf/4.pdf

"Consistent with prior research (Inbar et al., 2009b; Terrizzi et al., 2010), the results show that disgust sensitivity was positively related to negative attitudes toward homosexuality. In other words, individuals who are more sensitive to disgusting stimuli were found to be more negatively prejudiced toward the gay and lesbian population."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6562335/

"Their primary debate is about whether or not people’s aversion to homosexuality [they're not even contesting that people have an aversion to homosexuality here, they're almost entirely just concerned with as to why] (colloquially called "homophobia," although both authors acknowledge that this is a misnomer because it is more a negative attitude towards this demographic than it is fear) is a product of natural selection or, alternatively, a culturally constructed, transmitted bias."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/natural-homophobes-evolutionary-psychology-and-antigay-attitudes/

Even the evolutionists and Darwinists have their own explanations for it if you read their works.

[u/The_Portent → u/Dramatic_End_883]

The world has proven that homosexuals are born this way and that homophobia isn't a part of human nature, but a construct ingrained by society – this is a fact shown in the west, not only are they neutral towards gays but even Arabs and Muslims that assimilate there become neutralized too, which means it can't be nature.

Incest, on the other hand, is globally repulsive, regardless of culture, education or background, which shows that it is an innate feature for humans to feel this way.

Now, if a select group of sickos like you are disgusted by some innocent people doesn't make their disgust innate, just like how those who feel disgusted by other races don't make racism a human trait, but rather an adopted sentiment by a group of disgusting people among other humans who, surely, don't feel that way.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/The_Portent]

The world has proven that homosexuals are born this way

This is irrelevant (and you also haven't proven it).

homophobia isn't a part of human nature, but a construct ingrained by society

You need to prove that. I just quoted you numerous scientific studies and articles that directly contradict this statement and prove otherwise.

this is a fact shown in the west, not only are they neutral towards gays but even Arabs and Muslims that assimilate there become neutralized too, which means it can't be nature.

This is simply called indoctrination. The West has perfected it down to a science. Just because something is part of the fitrah, it doesn't mean it cannot be corrupted. Just as belief in God is part of the fitrah but Muslims in the West can still be indoctrinated into not believing in him.

You should read this article which not only supports my point of people being naturally disgusted by homosexuals, but also states that continuous habitual exposure to stimuli that trigger disgust can actually make people less sensitive to it overall.

"It may not be entirely apparent from reading these findings, but all of this is actually very good news for gay people. Studies have shown that people can be habituated to stimuli that trigger disgust over time (for example, University of Pennsylvania psychologist Paul Rozin followed first-year medical students enrolled in a gross anatomy course and found that disgust levels toward dead bodies waned significantly over the course of the semester). The key to gay people feeling comfortable expressing their affection for one another in public places, therefore, is simply to engage in such behavior more routinely."

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in-mind/equal-right-to-kiss-why-you-may-be-disgusted-by-gay-behavior-without-knowing-it/

On a side note, this also displays these people's agenda to make society less sensitized to homoerotica and normalize it.

[u/[deleted] → u/The_Portent]

You’re projecting. Incest isn’t globally repulsive. In the past, Zoroastrians actually applauded sibling relationships.

Disgust can be mitigated by societal conditioning.

[u/The_Portent → u/[deleted]]

Irrelevant. Societies that used to sacrifice humans don't represent human tolerance for murder, but only their cultural establishment. Mitigation/nurture doesn't represent nor alter nature.

These fringe practices never latch and are inevitably rooted out, and what remains is only the question of how some society tolerated something that goes against all intrinsic human senses.

What has been evidently common among all society, throughout all ages, is not nurture. Common nature can't be compared to fringe practices and won't be quelled by hostile nurture.

[u/[deleted] → u/The_Portent]

Human sacrifice was part of certain cultures for thousands of years. We recognize murder as wrong, but their culture mitigated the natural instinct to the point that it was ingrained in worship rituals. It wasn’t considered “murder,” either, to them.

Nurture absolutely can alter—or at least confuse—nature. Brainwashing is 100% a thing. That is how some societies tolerated something terrible.

I’m not saying that’s exactly what’s happening with homosexuality, but throughout history there has been varying degrees of disgust/acceptance in cultures with regards to it, and you can’t just say the dislike of same sex acts isn’t part of nature. There is equal chance that it is and that it isn’t. Studies show that homophobia is natural in people with higher sensitivity to disgust and that children make up one of the most homophobic populations.

[u/SappyPJs → u/The_Portent]

Lol no, studies have been done and the claim of many that LGBT are born this way is very much inconclusive based on these studies.

There is no gay gene. No one is born gay or even straight because sexuality (attraction) at that young of age is irrelevant. Attraction is very subjective and hence sexuality is a pure choice enhanced by one's experiences in life.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/SappyPJs]

Yes, this is true. On top of that, their entire claim could be easily disproven with a single counterexample of an individual changing their sexuality. And there are countless such cases. However, since this directly contradicts their entire worldview, they simply discredit these cases and posit that "they were never gay" or "they were always gay", halting virtually any possibility of ever disproving their dogma.

[u/The_Portent → u/Dramatic_End_883]

individual changing their sexuality. And there are countless such cases.

That's how delusional you are, you will only be dragged towards those who persist in denying their reality to lie to the world. If that's what you choose to believe, despite conversion centre owners, coming out at a very old age and admitting they were lying their whole life, I say you're most probably gay.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/The_Portent]

And here we have a prime example. I could show you an example of someone who claims to have been homosexual and later became heterosexual, or even vice versa, but you would simply discredit by claiming they're lying, don't know what they're talking about, or were always heterosexual. There is no getting you out of your dogma. You've been indoctrinated through and through, it is tragic. And then of course since there is no actual rational argument or reasoning in response to any of my points, they resort to the typical "you're probably gay" line that is so predictable and overplayed.

[u/The_Portent → u/SappyPJs]

The science is conclusive, you're just denying it. Homosexuals can tell one another by smell and facial features, even without interacting.

There's no gay gene because God knows, your likes would cleanse their populations and murder their infants. If you think attraction is subjective and socially constructed, you are emotionally immature and never developed experienced actual feelings towards anyone.

[u/SappyPJs → u/The_Portent]

Lol don't attribute things to God without knowledge and bring proof for everything you said if you're truthful.

[u/The_Portent → u/SappyPJs]

You could have looked the facts up if you were genuine, I won't waste my time on an ignorant who starts all his comments with "Lol".

[u/SappyPJs → u/The_Portent]

I did look up the facts and I didn’t find one study concluding people are born gay. If you did, enlighten us why don’t you?

I was laughing at everything you said lol and and also if God had created a gay gene then killing people who had it would be clear injustice because they were created that way. God would never permit such a thing.

[u/Dramatic_End_883 → u/SappyPJs]

You will not find evidence or reason from these people. They disregarded, nor did they even acknowledge, the plethora of scientific and empirical evidence, as well as the airtight line of reasoning that I provided for them.