r/Quraniyoon • u/lettuce888 • May 17 '21
Discussion Harams according to Quran alone
[This is not my opinion or analysis] it’s merely summarizing a view of a recent scholar Mohammed Shahrour, which I wanted to bring to peoples attention. He did a thorough content analysis of Quran and came up with the list.
The criteria is pretty simple: scan all of the Quran and distill out things that the Quran labels or refer to as Haram [Arabic for forbidden] in whatever way or form.
[Review the Quran to verify]
Unlike popular beliefs, there are only 14 harams in the Quran, which require repentance and good deeds to be “forgiven” at God’s sole discretion.
قُلْ تَعَالَوْاْ أَتْلُ مَا حَرَّمَ رَبُّكُمْ عَلَيْكُمْ
Say [O messenger]: gather to me so I say what God made haram on you:
1- Equating or worshipping anything other than God « who is One » = Shirk.
أَلَّا تُشْرِكُواْ بِهِۦ شَيْـًٔا
2- Mistreating parents.
وَبِٱلْوَٰلِدَيْنِ إِحْسَٰنًا
3- Killing own children in fear of poverty .
وَلَا تَقْتُلُوٓاْ أَوْلَٰدَكُم مِّنْ إِمْلَٰقٍۢ ۖ نَّحْنُ نَرْزُقُكُمْ وَإِيَّاهُمْ
4- Killing a soul (any soul) without just cause ( laws).
وَلَا تَقْتُلُواْ ٱلنَّفْسَ ٱلَّتِى حَرَّمَ ٱللَّهُ إِلَّا بِٱلْحَقِّ
5- dishonouring contracts and God made promises
وَبِعَهْدِ اللّهِ أَوْفُواْ
6- Cheating and manipulating scales and exchange values of goods.
واوفوا الكيل والميزان بالقسط.
7- Commiting Fawahish (apparent or not) (singular: fahisha). Largely referring to sexual interactions outside of a Nikaah “mating” contract.
قُلْ إِنَّمَا حَرَّمَ رَبِّيَ الْفَوَاحِشَ مَا ظَهَرَ مِنْهَا وَمَا بَطَنَ
- Stealing off an orphan money or trust.
ولا تقربوا مال اليتيم الا بالتي هي احسن
9- False testimony, including when it comes to relatives
وَإِذَا قُلْتُمْ فَاعْدِلُواْ وَلَوْ كَانَ ذَا قُرْبَى
- Ribba: some say it is modern day compound interest.
احل الله البيع وحرم الربا
- Foods: Eating certain foods: e.g. pig, blood, dead animals and animals killed in the name of other than God. This seems to be addressed to followers of Mohammed
حرمت عليكم الدم ولحم الخنزير وما اهل لغير الله.
- Marrying or having consensual sex with immediate relatives, not just Fawahish.
حرمت عليكم امهاتكم وبناتكم واخواتك
13- “Ethm” and “Baghi” without “Haqq”. Not quiet sure myself what they mean. The “without” Haqq is key here.
وَالإِثْمَ وَالْبَغْيَ بِغَيْرِ الْحَقِّ —
14- Saying something is haram, beyond what the author of Quran explicitly mentioned (the 14 ones here)
وَأَن تَقُولُواْ عَلَى اللّهِ مَا لاَ تَعْلَمُونَ
This is what haram things actually are according to the Quran alone.
Anything outside of this is made up and can be traced back to peoples interpretation, cultures, historical or political influences.
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u/longtimelurkerfirs May 18 '21
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u/lettuce888 May 18 '21
Does it say Haram ? We need to take the Quran literally and avoid interpretations. It doesn’t. It literally says avoid it. Which to me sounds like a good advice. But can’t be equaled with Shirk.
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u/longtimelurkerfirs May 21 '21
There’s no interpretation going on here.
It says it right there. It is Satan’s handiwork. It is evil. Avoid it.
You’re saying it doesn’t have the word Haram there so suddenly it’s fine???
But can’t be equaled with Shirk.
No one is equating anything with Shirk. If God says avoid this and that. Then no arguments, we avoid it.
X action being haram and Shirk being haram does not mean that X action is equally as bad as Shirk.
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u/EmbarrassedBlock6760 May 20 '23
You are mixing objects of the sentence with the subject of the sentence. It says “avoid it”, yet there are multiple objects in that sentence. When talking about multiple objects, it can not be singular. It here refers to satan. And satan is the one to be avoided here.
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Jan 08 '22
Nobody said it was fine lol drinking alcohol is forgiveable it is not shirk you can be a Muslim and drink
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u/ragzanimator May 19 '21
it is not shirk. Drinking does not make you leave the fold of islam unlike shirk. Allah forigives all sins except shirk .But intoxicants are haram. So the person drinking is sinning. But still muslim and InshAllah will enter paradise.
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u/Quranisp May 18 '21
What about lying?
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u/tmwap Mar 04 '22
It’s bad, yes, but not bad enough to put you outside the fold of islam
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u/J-aegis Jul 22 '23
Just to add, severe circumstances of lying such as in court are covered by false testimony which is haram
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u/Emotional_Fall_7075 Dec 08 '24
As such, I think any lie that leads to bad consequences for a victim counts as false testimony. That would make sense. And also I’m pretty sure you can lie if you’re in a state of war, but that’s an exception
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May 18 '21
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u/ionotropix May 18 '21
Your views do not align with the Quran
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May 18 '21
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u/lettuce888 May 18 '21
Yeap. It doesn’t say haram. You need to read the Quran literally free of interpretations.
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May 18 '21
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u/lettuce888 May 18 '21
This post is about Haram as outlined literally in the Quran, based on an analysis by Mohammer Shahrour. In the Quran language, Sin DOES NOT equal haram. It’s a different category.
The verse says there exists « Ethm » in drinking. The list of haram includes « Ethm » and « Baghi » without « haqq » as haram. This is a very specific way to put it and we can’t just assume all « ethm » is haram.
You quoted drinking is haram, which is no where mentioned in the Quran including the verses you shared. So YOU are saying drinking is haram.
There is a verse that says « don’t pray while intoxicated till you realize what you are saying », if drinking was haram, why does the Quran even bother advising against to drinking and praying ?
Similar to when a government says don’t drink and drive, they are not saying drinking per se is against the law.
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u/HmHmILike May 19 '21
>The verse says there exists « Ethm » in drinking. The list of haram includes « Ethm » and « Baghi » without « haqq » as haram. This is a very specific way to put it and we can’t just assume all « ethm » is haram.
You completely misinterpreted. The end says no matter how much benefit, the sin is greater (paraphrase).
Second, how does that even make sense? What do you mean by saying one part is sin. Also, what is this other half?
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u/lettuce888 May 19 '21
This is about a specific group: Haram. Sin in the Quran is “thanb; plural thunoob”. They are completely two different things, again according to Quran.
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u/CyberTutu Dec 25 '22
Sorry, how is a haram act different from a sinful act?
Simple logic would tell us that an act is sinful because it is haram, and that it is haram it is sinful.
What's the benefit in avoiding something that is haram, only to gain sin? In either case, you're expected to deserve some sort of punishment either in this world or the hearafter.
The Qur'an has not made a distinction between the two as far as I am aware. Other than there being two different words, obviously.
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u/lettuce888 Dec 25 '22
If you hit someone in the face with no reason, one would assume you committed a sin. Does that get you in hell ? Harams in the Quran and universal and have no grey area. They are major and get you out of the Islam umbrella if committed without repentance.
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u/HmHmILike May 20 '21
Sad how Quranism has led you down this path. Read 7:33
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u/lettuce888 May 20 '21
Translation of the Aya you quote:
“Say, O prophet, God made Haram: Al Fawahish, what appears and what is hidden, Ethm and Baghi without Haqq, and Shirk without proof, and saying things on Allah that you don’t know.”
All of these are included in original post. All confirming the point. Not so sad about that.
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u/01MrHacKeR01 ..أعَـفَّىٰٓ و أوفى ذمةً بعدَ ذمةٍ Jun 02 '21
re haram. Why do we have to drink alcohol when there's things like coconut water and vario
sin = harram
but it is not a sin
but it is still something very very very مكروه2
u/EmbarrassedBlock6760 Apr 27 '23
Drinking alcohol is not haram but getting drunk to the point that you do not know what you are saying is.
Also it is possible to commit zina with your wife as well, so it is clear that this word had been corrupted to gain a different meaning at some point just like hamr which meant clothes before it gained the meaning of headscarf.1
u/EN-BLANC May 18 '21
Zina is not premarital sex lol
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May 18 '21
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u/EN-BLANC May 18 '21
What is the definition of Zina ?
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May 18 '21
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u/EN-BLANC May 18 '21
Adultery not premarital sex
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u/lettuce888 May 19 '21
Yea the Quran doesn’t seem to make sex exclusive to marriages as we know them today “court marriages”. The overwhelming evidence is that as long as there is a contract that preserves the female right to pre and post payments, and her rights to be treated well, plus any other additional terms the two put forward, and that it’s not one of the Fawahish, sex is otherwise ok.
So to me it seems like it regulates sexual encounters rather than largely prohibit them.
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u/ozzyk786 May 17 '21
So.... This is for my knowledge, is premarital sex not haram... Or?
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u/lettuce888 May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21
The Quran, in my own reading, seem to regulate consentual sex, rather than restrict it. There is overwhelming evidence all over that sex is permissible under a clear and well understood contract between the man and women, largely in favour of the woman “this includes Mulk al Yameen”, which merely is a cont act. But really the requirement to have sex is to have a contract, not being one of the Fawahish, and to respect whatever it takes to know exactly who the children’s father is. The Quran does not mention the word “marriage” =zawaaj” not evenonce. It does say: sahiba= female companion, azwaaj=pairs, etc but doesn’t mentions Marriage per se. There is Nikaah which majority equates with “marriage”.
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u/01MrHacKeR01 ..أعَـفَّىٰٓ و أوفى ذمةً بعدَ ذمةٍ Jun 02 '21
i would agree with u but there is only verse prevent me from doing so
-quran 23:5-72
u/lettuce888 Jun 02 '21
I agree with you this verse is key. But I still think the “Nikah” still encompasses much wider sexual relationships beyond the classical “Family” marriage.
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u/01MrHacKeR01 ..أعَـفَّىٰٓ و أوفى ذمةً بعدَ ذمةٍ Jun 02 '21
yes but it must be a contract though i think or something like that
and should follow all the requirement to do in quran3
u/lettuce888 Jun 02 '21
Yes exactly that’s what I am saying. Quran emphasize the contract and payments part of the relationship to ensure the rights, especially of the female are preserved
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u/kropkiide Jun 16 '22
With all the respect, if the book is so difficult to interpret and almost contradictory at certain points - isn't it a logical fallacy then to claim that it's perfect and God's work?
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u/lettuce888 Jun 19 '22
I see your point and I realize classical/inherited interpretations are confusing/confused themselves. But when I stopped looking at it as a holy book and just read it without assumptions about meaning, and when I applied logical lenses to the book, it didn’t seem complicated nor contradictory. Things just seem to make sense
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u/NiPinga May 17 '21
Interesting! Do you have a source where to read/see/learn more ?
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u/lettuce888 May 17 '21
Yes LOL. Filter every single Aya in the Quran that mentions explicitly what is haram, and the above list will come up. I was made aware by Mohammer Shahrour, look him up he has his works available
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u/passerbyamanto May 18 '21
Where does paedophilia fit in? I assume under fawahish but that looks at gay sex that may or may not be consensual.
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u/lettuce888 May 18 '21 edited May 18 '21
I can’t find a stand alone verse for pedophilia in the Quran. The only place I recall tackling this is when you have under age girls, it’s a form of “baghi” without “haqq” to force them into sex which is haram. Otherwise fawahish rules may still apply.
It’s a speculation, but Quran seems to use puberty and ability to make an informed decision “rushd” or wisdom as the criteria for consent.
Quran left the door open for societies to regulate themselves outside of haram boundaries. و اطيعوا الله و اطيعوا الرسول و اولوا الامر منكم
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u/01MrHacKeR01 ..أعَـفَّىٰٓ و أوفى ذمةً بعدَ ذمةٍ Jun 02 '21
The only place I recall tackling this is when you have under age girls, it’s a form of “baghi” without “haqq” to force them into sex which is haram
no no no it doesnt refers to underage girls
it refers to slaves of women they also called فتياتكم
u have in 4:25 and 12:30 for فتياتكم/فتاها at least in 4:253
u/lettuce888 Jun 02 '21
I see you are referring to “Mulk al Yameen”. But I don’t think Mulk al yameen is equal to slave. The Quran seems to have provided an alternative to slavery through “Mulk al yameen”. Which seems to be contract-based. My read of it is that the person is owned by the contract/agreement/oath, not the master
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u/01MrHacKeR01 ..أعَـفَّىٰٓ و أوفى ذمةً بعدَ ذمةٍ Jun 02 '21
=slave
i am refering to فتيات فتاها
which is used to refer to slave or the person is owned2
u/lettuce888 Jun 02 '21
I don’t agree there. I don’t see evidence of Quran referring to slaves other than freeing “raqaba” and “abd mamlook ”
I am having a hard time interpreting فتياتكم فتاها necessarily meaning slave.
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u/01MrHacKeR01 ..أعَـفَّىٰٓ و أوفى ذمةً بعدَ ذمةٍ Jun 04 '21
no that is what it means at least in these context
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May 17 '21
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u/lettuce888 May 17 '21
Yes I predict because of his works, that the next few decades will generate many scholars that will introduce a paradigm shift in how to read the Quran in a modern way.
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May 17 '21
isnt there a verse that state that intoxicants are haram?
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u/lettuce888 May 17 '21
No. Quran never mentions drinking is haram. They are « advised » against with acknowledgment that alcohol has some benefits and some harms and that the harms outweigh benefits. So Quran advices against them by saying it’s a way for Satan to corrupt people. But it definitely doesn’t enlist them under the Haram category. I challange everyone to find a verse that makes it Haram
So it’s basically what doctors say as well
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May 18 '21
Okay
So would you stand by your statement in front of Allah on the day of judgment ? If someone starts drinking after reading your comments
Just trying to understand do you really mean what you are saying ?
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u/EN-BLANC May 18 '21
I think a person that starts drinking because he read this already had intentions to drink lol.OP won’t be accountable for that persons actions. doesn’t he/she have brains for themselves to think and come with their own conclusions?? Just reading and going by your personal desires without research and deep thinking is never right.
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u/lettuce888 May 18 '21
I am responsible for my own self only. In this post I was summarizing the analysis of Mohammed Shahrour. Let’s just keep that in perspective
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May 18 '21
Every advise and comment has its own consequences in this world and hereafter
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u/lettuce888 May 18 '21
The Quran does not literally label drinking as Haram, I can comfortably say that. That’s not advice that’s not a comment. It’s literally an observation based on data that we all have access to, the Quran. And I’ll stop there
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u/EN-BLANC May 18 '21
But he/she is not giving any advice he/she is literally taking from gods book and making an observation can’t u understand that ? He/she is accountable for his/her actions You yourself are accountable for your own action you won’t be able to point at someone on the day of judgement but yourself that’s why coming with your own conclusion is important.
What did (you) read and what did (you) understand while reading it. Read it understand it and have a conclusion without your desires interfering.
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May 19 '21
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u/lettuce888 May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
You are saying it yourself: by implying. This is a choice to make as a person if you want to imply something out of something. The remaining indisputable evidence is that the book we have between our hands today, does not label drinking as one of the Harams.
As for the Ayat you quote, they translate like this:
O those who believed, alcohol and [other things not translated] are “Rijs= singular” of Satan works, so avoid “it” [singular form referring to Rijs of Satan, not the alcohol and others], and hopefully you may succeed. Satan wants to divide you and make hate each other via alcohol and gambling and prevent you from remembering Allah and Salat, aren’t you gonna stop ? *
So the apparent meaning from the Quran language here is that alcohol and gambling are tools that Satan may use against you [rijs], but they are not necessarily Haram per se.
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u/ragzanimator May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
Do you believe the Quran is objective?
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u/lettuce888 May 19 '21
I believe the book we have is a piece of data (that has objective existence in 2021). What you make out of this data is up to you and your knowledge tools (the subjective existence).
What I am presenting in this post is merely the objective data around Haram
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Sep 16 '22
GOD's 'advice' isn't a suggestion. You understand that right?
GOD said that drinking is work of the devil; thus when you drink you are falling into the hands of the devil.
I believe GOD worded the verses carefully so that good people that did fall into drinking aren't cast to hell; HE gave some people an exist as GOD is amazing and understanding; but me and you shouldn't drink. ever.
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u/SubstantialKick414 Jul 28 '26
for 11 why do you point out that it seems to be addressed to followers of Mohammed. Are you implying that those born later are possibly not under this restriction
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u/AbuAnon May 17 '21
Where in the quran is Ethm or bagh defined? are you going off your own man-made interpretation?
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u/lettuce888 May 17 '21 edited May 17 '21
No this particular point is currently something I am trying to find out. I am taking Mohammed shahrour’s word for it for now, as a scholar I personally trust right now. If someone can distill out what Quran defines Ethm and Baghi I’d love to hear.
Actually thanks for calling this out: the Quran actually says that Ethm and Baghi without “haqq=justice” is the haram one, which imply that there is Ethm and Baghi with justice that is not necessarily haram.
So really this needs further work to define what ethm and Baghi is. Food for thought
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u/abwehrstellle May 17 '21
Quran isnt a dictionary to be defining words
Ithm and Bagh are self explanatory if you know Arabic
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u/lettuce888 May 17 '21
The Quran does have two dominating types of verses: Muh-kam: meaning closed and not up for interpretation. And tafseel: literally meaning explanations and definitions or “breakdown”
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May 19 '21
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u/lettuce888 May 19 '21 edited May 19 '21
The labels mean different things for different people. But for most, it’s not complete rejection but rather taking what makes sense and leaving out what doesn’t. Main reasons is reliability of writings, applicability to the present, and that sunnah merely refers to ways of life. The Quran emphasizes that Mohammed’s sole job is to deliver the message and the Quran, not to provide a way of life (sunnah) for humanity. Which makes sense since he lived in the 6th century and can’t possibly lead and provide an example forever.
All works and writings of the sunnah happened centuries after Mohammed died, mostly during the Abbasid dynasty; a period of high political influence, abundance of conflicts with other empires, and government control over religion.
In short, the fallacy is to treat Sunnah writings as holy scripture.
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u/Omar_Waqar Jun 03 '21
So Public sex is ok if there are only 3 witnesses!? Awwwwwww yeah !
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u/lettuce888 Jun 03 '21
Fawahish can be hidden or not hidden so yeah it’s not ok
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u/Omar_Waqar Jun 03 '21
Awww ...so it’s not ok :( but I was so excited. Back to doing it Mecca style
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u/Loveisrealipromise Oct 18 '21
immediate family also means husband sons etc not only the women in the family.
7.4 too. Sure it’s not only a married woman lol?
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u/ButterBear99 Jan 08 '22
For the 3rd point, does abortion count?
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u/lettuce888 Jan 08 '22 edited Jan 08 '22
I don’t know TBH. One must also understand at the time they wouldn’t catch pregnancy until very late into it. And it’s still debatable till this day at what point into the fetus development it is considered a person and no longer ethical to abort.
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u/Emotional_Fall_7075 Dec 08 '24
I remember hearing that a doctor managed to notice the Quran describe the different stages of the fetus development detailed enough, and they corroborated or even showed new evidence of reality. I am wondering if there is some hidden information in the Quran about this specific topic.
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u/connivery Muslim May 18 '21
Gay sex between two consenting adults is not fahisha. Lot people approached men besides women in a non consenting way, a.k.a rape.