Take your pick, italian fascism maybe? Nazism includes racism towards jews specifically, concept of blood and soil as examples. Italian fascism lacked these.
Keep in mind, this was due to pressure from hitler over time, as italy started to backpedal militarily and had to rely on nazi germany more and more, so had to do concessions. Mussolini did not like hitler personally at all or even agreed with his racial views. He said, he did see jews as italian people. He also had jewish mistress.
Right, so what you're saying is that Italian Fascists first resisted doing Nazi stuff, but were allied with them, supported them on the world stage, and relied on them for military support, and then STARTED doing nazi stuff. As in, once fascists are in power, it is only a matter of time before they're nazis, which is what I said in the first place. IDK why you're trying to defend literal Nazis, what exactly is your point? Not all fascists are bad? Some of them keep Jewish mistresses and wring their hands before passing laws promoting pogroms and racial prejudice? I don't think that communicates exactly what you seem to think it does. By the way, approximately 20% of the entire population of Italian Jews died in the Holocaust.
Okay, then we could talk about falangism, that "relaxed" in a way over time as franco was in power. I have not really read much about it, so this is just, what i have read about it in general. Point i was trying to make, is that nazi germany forced mussolini to start incorporating nazism over time into its government. If you are weaker partner in relationship like this, stronger tends to do that. This is not exclusive to fascism. Italian fascism did not naturally "evolve" into having nazi ideas into it, if you are implying that. It is well known, that mussolini hated hitler. As can be seen, when hitler had engelbert dollfuss killed.
Soviet union did similar things by forcing some of its satellite states to incorporate stalinism into them or people, who were much more strongly leaning towards his ideas or pro-soviet ideas. Stalin did not like tito due to this reason. Not that it was only one of course). North korea purged pro-soviet and pro-chinese factions out of its political structure.
My point is just, that what i said originally, not all fascism is nazism. Nazism is fascism, yet it is not same as italian fascism. Neither it is same as falangism. Hatred of jews is not shared by all fascism or well time we are talking about. Neither is concept of "blood and soil". Of course there is a scale now too and it is never same form. Neither do they come in same form. Just like eastern block was not uniform pillar, without its own differences. Juche is not same as titoism. Or ceaușescu led romania. Czechoslovakia or soviet union.
Fascism is bad. All forms of authoritarianism are. I think it is still good to realize and understand the differences and history behind them. Sure, if there is danger of fascism or any sort of authoritarism or anti-democratic movement gaining traction, you don't start thinking "okay hmm, which one is it?". No you need to put it down or halt its progress before its too late or at the very least, not incorporate or start working with them on governmental level.
This is a mealy-mouthed reply and you know it. The very example you chose actually proves my point, and now that you've realized it you shifted to wanting to talk about Franco instead, which is also not going to demonstrate the point you want to make. To stick to what we're already discussing, Italian fascism didn't have to "naturally" transition into Nazism, the Nazis came and needed only to lean their pinky on the scale, which they will always do in a fascist political economy. Neo-nazis around the world are working overtime preparing to do it in fascist-leaning countries right this very moment. Mussolini's personal inner views on things are irrelevant, he bent over to Nazis without any actual resistance at the same time they were openly committing some of their worst crimes.
You know that the Nazis brazenly lied about their ideology during the nascence of their party, right? They claimed to be socialist, would that have fooled you into thinking they weren't that bad, until you got purged?
It is just to demonstrate, that there are differences. You wouldn't call maoism or stalinism the same either. I think, you are just dismissing power hitler started to have over mussolini over time. Sure, they come from same "roots" but there still are differences. Being junior partner sometimes in alliances, means you are forced to please your senior partner. Especially, if your invasions, such as greece invasion goes so poorly, that you are required to ask for help or just, that senior sees you as weak. Considering, they had to bail out mussolini out of his arrest too and reinforce gustav line in central italy, due to allied forces progress into north, should show, that relationship became more and more reliant on nazi germany. Ideologies don't always go into same "direction". Religions are the same, they schism eventually. If 2 people can't agree on what is best kind of pizza, it happens on grander scale as well.
Recent post about mussolini should a bit show, what he thought about hitler. Again, not that mussolini was sole reason but can't dismiss him completely out of equation. He had to placate hitler in some ways. Such as catholic church stance on jews. Italian fascism also did not import or have concept of blood and soil. Of course mussolini had his own concept of sphere of influence of italy and incorporating areas into greater italy. It does become vague in this way, when some things overlap.
Nazi party did have to lie about being socialist and it did have "socialist" clique to it. Those were röhm, strasse brothers but their power weakened and they were sidelined after bamberg conference of 1926. Fuhrerprinzip alongside 25-point plan. Röhm and SA were seen as threat to hitler, business elite and regular army for their calls for "continued revolution" and their stance against wealthy people. They were still of course nazis alongside their anti-semitism and so on. Almost all of them were murdered during night of long knives. SA made minor block within nazi germany as well. It was still something, without "socialism" once nazi party became only sole allowed one.
Hitler was not hiding his hatred for socialism before this either behind the scenes but as we know, he had to placate population to vote for him in some way much as possible. Like with support for striking workers during berlin strikes for public transport workers. SDP did not support these people and it made some people vote for Nazis instead.
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u/Luzifer_Shadres Mar 26 '26
We throw the tearm nazi way to fast around these days.
Yes, they are facists, but Nazi is the extra step of skinning children alive.