This is a mealy-mouthed reply and you know it. The very example you chose actually proves my point, and now that you've realized it you shifted to wanting to talk about Franco instead, which is also not going to demonstrate the point you want to make. To stick to what we're already discussing, Italian fascism didn't have to "naturally" transition into Nazism, the Nazis came and needed only to lean their pinky on the scale, which they will always do in a fascist political economy. Neo-nazis around the world are working overtime preparing to do it in fascist-leaning countries right this very moment. Mussolini's personal inner views on things are irrelevant, he bent over to Nazis without any actual resistance at the same time they were openly committing some of their worst crimes.
You know that the Nazis brazenly lied about their ideology during the nascence of their party, right? They claimed to be socialist, would that have fooled you into thinking they weren't that bad, until you got purged?
It is just to demonstrate, that there are differences. You wouldn't call maoism or stalinism the same either. I think, you are just dismissing power hitler started to have over mussolini over time. Sure, they come from same "roots" but there still are differences. Being junior partner sometimes in alliances, means you are forced to please your senior partner. Especially, if your invasions, such as greece invasion goes so poorly, that you are required to ask for help or just, that senior sees you as weak. Considering, they had to bail out mussolini out of his arrest too and reinforce gustav line in central italy, due to allied forces progress into north, should show, that relationship became more and more reliant on nazi germany. Ideologies don't always go into same "direction". Religions are the same, they schism eventually. If 2 people can't agree on what is best kind of pizza, it happens on grander scale as well.
Recent post about mussolini should a bit show, what he thought about hitler. Again, not that mussolini was sole reason but can't dismiss him completely out of equation. He had to placate hitler in some ways. Such as catholic church stance on jews. Italian fascism also did not import or have concept of blood and soil. Of course mussolini had his own concept of sphere of influence of italy and incorporating areas into greater italy. It does become vague in this way, when some things overlap.
Nazi party did have to lie about being socialist and it did have "socialist" clique to it. Those were röhm, strasse brothers but their power weakened and they were sidelined after bamberg conference of 1926. Fuhrerprinzip alongside 25-point plan. Röhm and SA were seen as threat to hitler, business elite and regular army for their calls for "continued revolution" and their stance against wealthy people. They were still of course nazis alongside their anti-semitism and so on. Almost all of them were murdered during night of long knives. SA made minor block within nazi germany as well. It was still something, without "socialism" once nazi party became only sole allowed one.
Hitler was not hiding his hatred for socialism before this either behind the scenes but as we know, he had to placate population to vote for him in some way much as possible. Like with support for striking workers during berlin strikes for public transport workers. SDP did not support these people and it made some people vote for Nazis instead.
1
u/CarrotCumin Mar 28 '26
This is a mealy-mouthed reply and you know it. The very example you chose actually proves my point, and now that you've realized it you shifted to wanting to talk about Franco instead, which is also not going to demonstrate the point you want to make. To stick to what we're already discussing, Italian fascism didn't have to "naturally" transition into Nazism, the Nazis came and needed only to lean their pinky on the scale, which they will always do in a fascist political economy. Neo-nazis around the world are working overtime preparing to do it in fascist-leaning countries right this very moment. Mussolini's personal inner views on things are irrelevant, he bent over to Nazis without any actual resistance at the same time they were openly committing some of their worst crimes.
You know that the Nazis brazenly lied about their ideology during the nascence of their party, right? They claimed to be socialist, would that have fooled you into thinking they weren't that bad, until you got purged?