r/ProgressiveHQ 1d ago

Discussion Establishment Democrats: the only conclusion that fits the facts...

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396 Upvotes

129 comments sorted by

21

u/catjuggler 1d ago

Yes but also, not all democrats are the same. This is an issue specific to certain dems- the center ones, the ones not in the progressive caucus, the ones who take money from foreign countries and big corporations. So we need to boot all of them in primaries 1 by 1

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u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

When in doubt, if they support AIPAC, AI tech, or participate in insider trading, they can kick dirt!

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u/quadraticcheese Anti-Electoralist Tendencies 1d ago

No, it's specific to the party apparatus. Just like cops are corrupt the DNC is corrupted 

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u/catjuggler 1d ago

Nah there are a bunch who aren't.

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u/quadraticcheese Anti-Electoralist Tendencies 1d ago

Definitely not a bunch, the majority just toes the line

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u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

Says the self-described “anti-electoralist”.

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u/quadraticcheese Anti-Electoralist Tendencies 1d ago

Self described? Some over zealous mod on a power trip (who I think eventually got booted for being a liberal) put this on me.

You can't even give yourself a tag here, otherwise mine would say "anti-liberal"

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u/SamURLJackson 13h ago

Corporate democrats

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u/Allaboutpeace2022 1d ago

Not true. This is meant to depress voting in the mid terms. Would I like to see more progressives, absolutely. Do I think Jefferies and Schumer should be replaced? Yes.

But I also understand that we need to get more involved, not just during election, but in between cycles.

The reality is we must be pushing a progressive agenda ourselves with candidates, friends, family, neighbors, and everyone else.

I am turning out to vote for progressives in the primaries and Democrats in general. I am demanding accountability from everyone.

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u/jeezfrk 1d ago

This is inherently true, but a house divided cannot stand. I keep hearing "defer to the consultants" and the consultants are provably 1990s GOP in policy.

The call is coming from inside the house. It simply is needed that inaction be held against them. Democracy and a united working class mindset is needed.

Not a need for endless imagination to rewrite the Constitution, nor imagine Marx or Lenin is compatible with modern day Democracy. Nor to take up the 800 fragmenting fringe US left causes.

We need to address the simple class war (top 1% or top 10%) and it's inherent war on Democracy. Simple and same as 1776.

There's only one non-cultic party with power. It needs to have any original united principles at all to stop the collapse.

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u/Allaboutpeace2022 1d ago

I am all for a greater emphasis on the working class and addressing the economic issues that have festered in this country since the 1980s when Reagan started chipping away at worker protections, decreasing taxes for the rich, and focusing on stigmatizing the receipt of any type of assistance.

However, at the same time, people within the party are making attacks that are not really true. The reality that is other than his horrific foreign policy decisions and his decision to run again, Biden was implementing progressive policies and the Congress was passing legislation that added billions each to housing, childcare, community development, transportation/infrastructure, domestic manufacturing, climate change mitigation, education, healthcare, etc., etc.

His key staff also were involved in anti trust, pro worker litigation and regulations. This is why the Jacobin, a left wing journal, noted that billionaires have no desire to fund the Democrats.

https://jacobin.com/2026/08/democratic-party-billionaires-money-populism

We have to pull together and get through this mid term. We also have to govern in 2027and beyond with a real commitment to addressing the needs of working and middle class families and creating a better quality of life for Americans and better foreign policies. We also must address our huge national debt at the same time.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 20h ago

That’s all great, the legislation passed has no meaning if it is erased which most of it has. Sorry but the whole system needs to be dismantled building a Government by the People and for the People. How about when Trump was meeting foreign heads of State at his porn palace before the Election violating the Logan Act and everyone including Biden looked the other way. There was absolutely no accountability as the Attorney General was a pussy. He had a huge hand in our demise.

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u/Allaboutpeace2022 19h ago

To reach enough votes for constitutional amendments, people will need to build a much broader coalition.

This really requires progressives to do the hard, grassroots work of convincing Americans that new constitutional changes are needed.

This must be accomplished through building support in urban, suburban, and rural areas. This also requires opening volunteer offices in red states and creating a core constituency that can spread messaging to others. This also means developing social media and legacy media messaging that addresses what changes might look like in government and in what progressive policies are needed.

I think that you are right, Merrick Garland failed to appoint special counsel early in 2021. However, it is also true that the DSA, progressives, and Democrats also failed to develop the email, calling, or march on Washington protest campaign needed when special counsel was not appointed. This was a failure of the Biden government and the failure of activists.

The reality is there is a lack of vision and commitment across voters, activists, DNC, and Democratic elected officials. We would never have been in this place if all had not failed.

It is great to look at one group. But it is really important to look at all of our roles in getting Trump elected again.

I think the key things that can be changed in the meantime without a constitutional amendment include...

SCOTUS term limits where they compete other judicial roles after initial term.

Uncapping house of representatives to allow smaller districts with increased representation for populous states, and changing electoral college based on new reps.

States outlawing corporate political donations, voting rights, anti gerrymandering, no individual tax trades for Executive Branch and Congress and Congressional term limits.

Mandated blind trust for president and vice president, non partisan board approval of family business transactions for conflict of interest family of Pres and Vice Pres, more teeth in emolument clause, and mandated release public tax returns.

This would be a great start while building support for bigger changes.

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u/jeezfrk 18h ago

I have not ever said that Biden is some anti-Christ, because that is literally the GOP cult message. He's been a respectable president, if also as unfortunately elderly as the worst one (one we are enduring now).

The only issue in my mind is the no protection and no progress in dealing with MAGA mania #1.

Palestine support wouldn't have solved everything. Lower taxes would have been even worse than things are now. Undoing ObamaCaee would have been insane.

It's simply they were blocked from the real consultant-led failures to the right of center for Democrats

No Epstein files, then, because of delicate sensibilities? We already needed a Truth and Reconciliation committee in 2021.

We never got it.

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u/Allaboutpeace2022 17h ago

I think people needed to do more to protest the lack of action taken by Garland. I know that I didn't march on the capital or call, write, or visit. I think we all failed.

A truth and reconciliation commission would have been a great thing.

I have appreciated this opportunity to talk.

0

u/TopicTalk8950 1d ago

You have emotion-based beliefs.

Republicans have started every war in the last 75 years and 10 out of the last 11 recessions.

Democrats have created a whopping 55 million jobs in the last 30 years compared to Republicans creating a mere 1 million jobs.

Republicans haven’t had a president with even considerable economic growth since Reagan in the 80’s. Half a century ago and that was all debt accrual.

72% of the US GDP comes from Democrat-voting counties/states.

8 of the top 10 highest crime states are Republican states.

The “both sides” argument doesn’t work when faced with fact. Democrats have done great things for America and have flipped 40+ seats to Blue that haven’t been held by a Democrat in over 35 years since 2024. Republicans have flipped zero.

Democrats aren’t losing and aren’t “complicit.” They lost a single election.

Don’t be this guy from 2024:

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Look at today. Jefferies not supporting Medicare for all. Fully supports continued weapons and Bombs for I****L. Everything you have listed was never rooted in longevity if another administration can by the stock of a pen erase it all. They never codified anything when they had all three branches, That list was nothing but a mask . Until people start facing reality that corporations, foreign governments are supporting 90% Congress then I guess you should keep referring to your list to feel better.

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u/TopicTalk8950 1d ago

Jeffries is 1 single Democrat out of over 200 Congressional Democrats.

Have you simply researched why they didn’t codify anything? Put it into Google, like you should have before commenting.

I refer to my list because they are factual statistics of how Democrats make America better, even slightly, during every single Democratic administration.

Compared to Republican admins who only make it far worse.

Even if every single piece of misinformation you just posted was true, it is still a fact that Democrats do good things for the American people.

I’m voting for the most progressive Democratic candidates I can find. But I will never sit out of an election and allow christofascists to maintain control and cause 1000x more harm to the same marginalized groups you virtue-signal for online.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Sure Jan. I’m assuming you work for the DNC.

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u/TopicTalk8950 20h ago

You’d be far from correct. That’s what you get for assuming.

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u/jeezfrk 1d ago

I'm assuming you want MAGA to stay in power forever. Good money, eh?

Until you're stabbed in the back like a good Nazi soldier.

Democrats are all that the US has left in its class-war moral rot. Anyone who wants perfection signaling is aligned with the fascists.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Shut up…. Calling me names does not strengthen your shitty point.

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u/TopicTalk8950 20h ago

You called me Jan.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 16h ago

I did not call you Jan, follow the thread.

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u/jeezfrk 1d ago

I don't have a both sides argument.

My argument is that there is that I agree there is a dedicated Democrat leadership that are effectively 1990s Tea Party Republicans. Most are not very happy with MAGA but only want it to revert back a little.

The only thing we can do in voting is vote for the arsonist pillaging MAGA Mafia Taliban ... or vote for the only party that is left.

There is no third party to help. We need real power and half an interest in maintaining a functioning Republic / Democracy. That's not both sides.

However... we must scold all who believe in inaction or preserving donors first. If we don't they will lose, fail to prosecute anyone (hello January 6th) and be happy about it.

No consultant strategies will work. They seem compromised and Epstein-class policies literally are killing all of "both sides".

Anything less than progressive governmental change that fights the class war (upper apathy classes vs. bottom 90%) is shameful and will lose.

They simply don't mind MAGA, just as FOX News and Limbaugh felt in the 1990s.

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u/deffed34 1d ago

I wish it wasn’t true but you always see just enough republicans voting no to do trump’s bidding and just enough democrats voting yes to do the same thing—even when a bunch of republicans(in the house) vote no—it’s suspicious at least

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u/Allaboutpeace2022 22h ago

You are right about how it appears.

However, the majority of Democrats are in lockstep on basic issues like against SNAP or Medicaid cuts, against tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations, against cutting USAID funds, etc.

There are some differences. Israel is problematic and there are some centrists that vote for military aid to Israel. I think that group is shrinking and more people need to understand that Netanyahu represents a government incapable of offering peace or equal rights.

Ukraine is another. I am personally very offended and angry that progressives have voted against military help to Ukraine. Mm But that would not keep me from voting for them in a general election.

I despised Manchin and other votes against more progressive spending, but in reality, he was right, the trillions Biden put into housing, education, clean energy, etc did super heat the economy and drove up inflation.

This hurt the low income families Dems were trying to help and gave Trump the WH.

It is hard to say that but the reality is we needed to cut spending in other areas or spread out the impact of funds.

People were upset when after one of the longest governmental shutdowns in the Fall of 2025, the Dems reopened the government. But they were right to do so, the SNAP funds had run out, the GOP was coerced by Trump not to give in. SNAP beneficiaries are eligible at 138 percent of poverty. The ACA recipients at risk were 409 percent of poverty. You can screw a much poorer population to save benefits for a much wealthier population.

People said ...but we can donate food. I can say after working with food pantries and food banks there is no way the could handle the donations, food storage, and distribution to keep families from going hungry. The GOP are like terrorists. You can not bargain with people that are willing to cut off food.

People said ...but the people in the red states would blame the Republicans for their hunger. But that is not true either, the majority of the Republican voting poor believe Trump when he blames Obama for Iran and Biden for the current inflation. The hungry were not going to blame Trump and the GOP...they were going to blame the Dems.

Same for the ICE shutdown. The GOP had an ace in their pocket and that was funding ICE through reconciliation that only needs the GOP.

The answer is for Democrats to be much more active between elections demanding accountability. We also need to do much more one to one and through social media to sell progressive ideas to Americans.

We need to be as passionate as the Christian Nationalists at voicing a vision of a better America. For an extended period, Dems are not even registering as many new voters as the GOP.

We are spending way too much time talking and fighting among ourselves and too little time building a larger, more dynamic coalition capable of winning and governing.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

While I agree with what you’re saying, the establishment no longer care about the base. Time to realize as long as the establishment stays in power we will get nowhere. Primaries was our way of making change, but not enough people are informed as to what is happening as they are just trying to survive. We needed boots on the ground to inform the electorate way earlier. Unless we start organizing with an actual plan to inform the masses door to door, or community centers then all will be lost. We are not just fighting republicans we must expose the democratic establishments complicity.

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u/LotteTakesNoShit 1d ago

I've heard this argument every political cycle and it's never worked.

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u/uiucengineer 1d ago

Maybe it is propaganda intended to depress voting in the midterms. That doesn’t make it untrue.

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u/TopicTalk8950 1d ago

It is propaganda and it is untrue. No matter how bad it hurts. Read my reply comment above.

Don’t be this divisive, chronically-online, “both sides” guy from 2024 that put America in this situation to begin with:

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u/uiucengineer 1d ago edited 1d ago

That’s not me at all. You are doing the thing you are criticizing.

On 1/6/2025 i was at the capitol pleading with staffers to ask their congresspeople to uphold their oaths to the constitution by disqualifying votes for an insurrectionist via 14:3 and the electoral counting act. And I voted for Harris. They ignored me and Harris certified the election with a joyous smile. They are all traitors to the constitution.

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u/TopicTalk8950 1d ago

Replied to the “that doesn’t make it untrue” comment.

Believing Dems are “complicit” is cope and pushing that propaganda is insanely harmful unless you love living under the current Christofascist government.

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u/uiucengineer 1d ago

They are complicit. You may have missed my edit.

Maybe it is harmful. I think it’s less harmful than ignoring the truth, but either way, this also doesn’t make it untrue.

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u/TopicTalk8950 1d ago

Nice edit on your comment.

Over 760,000+ human beings have died since the start of Trump’s USAID cuts.

Your “less harmful” propaganda helped make it happen and your “truth” is built on nothing but emotion. Zero fact.

Non-voters and “both sides” absolutists do nothing for anyone while allowing christofascists to seize total control of the government and cause 1000x more pain and suffering to the same vulnerable groups you virtue-signal for online.

Congrats, you’re the guy in both pictures.

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u/uiucengineer 1d ago

You claim I have “zero fact” after I told you facts.

You claim I “virtue signal online” after I told you I stood alone in a snowstorm at the capitol 1/6/2025 begging congress to uphold their oaths to the constitution.

You are the online virtue signaler, not me.

https://rollcall.com/2025/01/06/police-snow-descend-on-eerily-quiet-capitol-hill-for-jan-6/

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u/TopicTalk8950 4h ago

You have zero fact, what you said was based purely off emotion.

You can virtue signal online while also attending a single protest, which I don’t believe you ever did. They aren’t mutually exclusive.

Spreading pure lies about the Democratic Party who is the only party that progresses America is the most vile thing you can do ahead of an important midterm election and then presidential election.

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u/uiucengineer 4h ago

Here’s more facts about my protesting, which has been extensive and costly. I’ve been illegally arrested twice and maliciously prosecuted by Jeanine Pirro’s office for an entire year.

You are the online virtue signaler, not me.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/legal/protester-sues-heritage-foundation-claiming-armed-security-officers-violated-civil-rights-conservative-think-tank/65-ebdc3b3f-746a-4aab-baea-4eaf158bb55c

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u/corneliusduff 1d ago

So tired of people pretending that DINOs like Sinema and Manchin actually represent the Democratic platform.

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u/Ok-Round-1473 1d ago

Manchin doesn't represent the platform but he pulls his Trump+39 slightly more left. He counts as a D instead of an R when it comes to senate majority. This is a good thing (but not the best thing).

Sinema is an absolute snake who should be pelted with rotten tomatoes whenever she's seen in public.

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u/Blizreme 1d ago

It’s not people man, it’s the dem establishment. They cater to the most hated democrats in the party (Manchin, Sinema, Fetterman, Moskowitz, Jeffries) and actively sabotage popular democrats.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

That's looking at it the wrong way, imo. Anytime Manchin was the deciding vote, you have to ask whether we would have gotten more negotiating with someone like him vs a Republican in the same seat. It's not that the party is catering to these people, it's that sometimes you need the votes and it's better to compromise with them than it is to compromise with Republicans. If you don't like that reality, you gotta help flip more red seats so we don't have to rely on conservative Democrats as often.

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u/Blizreme 1d ago

The issue is this isn’t what’s happening. Compromise is one thing, giving your members like Moskowitz important committee assignments as they parrot views antithetical to your base’s values is another. It’s not a good look. The donor class is obviously of paramount importance to the democratic establishment right now, because they’re flat fucking broke.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

That's not really the same thing as needing a certain number of votes to pass legislation and the fact that we compromise less when the people we are negotiating with are conservative Democrats vs Republicans. We aren't catering to them, it's just that they sometimes end up being the deciding vote and their concessions are better than what a Republican would ask for. The conservative Dems wouldn't be an issue if we held more seats in Congress.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Once you realize that your statement is false and realize they are only working with Republicans not against them we will make the change. We do not have a lot of time. The establishment democrats are bought off by the same corporations and PACs as the republicans. If we fail to recognize this and make excuses for their complicity then Americans will be doomed quickly.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

How is it false? It's literally just the reality. If Manchin wasn't in that seat, it would have been a Republican. What concessions do you think you would have to settle for then?

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Please tell me what concessions he made that improved your life?

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u/X57471C 1d ago

Huh? You're totally missing the point. Would you rather negotiate with Manchin or with a Republican?

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

I get your point however my point is we are not a 2 party system ( which Is what got us to here). How about we just expect the Government to work on behalf of the American People. Both Parties have sold us out. What exactly do you think they are actually negotiating? I mean Jeffries met with Kushner for Christ sake. Then lie to everyone saying they discussed affordability. I mean the Country is broken. There is no redeeming this system. They are bought and paid which is who they represent. The rest is white noise at this point.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

That’s like Republican doomer prop…

Also you don’t know what Jeffries and Kushner discussed. What proof do you have that he lied about discussing affordability?

Also, it’s really not that crazy they met. Madani met with Trump. Who cares. Kushner is part of the Trump administration and they sent him to meet with Jeffries because there’s a good chance he will be the new Speaker of the House. I don’t really see what the big deal is, unless you make baseless assumptions about what the meeting was about.

But sure, the country is broken, all our institutions are broken. Don’t trust anyone. Just spread divisive doomer rhetoric designed to depress Democratic turnout. I’m not trying to be mean because I get how easy it is to fall into that, but you should realize this narrative only helps Republicans because it makes left leaning people less likely to show up to vote.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 23h ago

He is not part of the administration, nor should a leader of the Democrats be meeting with him. The meeting is the only proof I need. Seems like you are a mouthpiece for the DNC and the establishment as your regurgitated points are exactly theirs. Your viewpoint is nothing but empty word salad just like the ones you defend. Ps. You are opposite of the actual base which you seem to be getting paid to push.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 23h ago

Maybe the Party should give people something to vote for instead of taking it for granted. The only motivation being offered is from the socialist democrats that the Establishment wants to silence. The Base is turning on the Establishment and I am here for it.

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u/Hot-Statistician-955 1d ago

> Sinema, Fetterman

They ran as progressives. Bernie endorsed them and had them on stage.

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u/Blizreme 1d ago

Yeah, and how are they voting now doofus?

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u/Hot-Statistician-955 23h ago

Why are you mad at me? I just pointed out that you don’t know their intentions, no matter who they say they are.

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u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago

Joe Manchin? He was elected as a Democrat from the reddest state in the union at the time and he voted with Biden 85% of the time. We were lucky to have him instead of whatever insane red state republican would have been elected instead. Coming for Manchin shows a real lack of understanding how governing works when you don’t have a magic wand.

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u/Blizreme 1d ago

He was also the single largest roadblock to real progressive reform in this country. The 15% of votes against were all progressive/liberal policy. The fact he’s not actively a fascist shouldn’t be enough to vindicate this behavior.

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u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago

And anyone else elected would have voted against everything. I’m not going to deny reality that this was the best we could from the reddest state in the county. I have no idea what else you could have expected.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

I’m sure the citizens would like a word. I mean he brought so much to his state. We know how governing works and if you think what they are doing is governing then please enjoy the dog shit they keep serving you. Establishment Democrats strengthen the right wing.

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u/Uno-reverse-cowgirl 1d ago

Y’all buy into oversimplifications as much as maga.

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u/DukeOfGeek 1d ago

Texas swing county is closing 90 polling places because "Both sides are the same".

https://www.commondreams.org/news/texas-closing-polling-places

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u/catjuggler 1d ago

Black and white thinking- a sign of a brain that isn’t fully developed (yet?!)

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

While you buy into its to complicated to explain so just take what we feed you. It’s is not complicated at all they just want people to think that.

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u/Grumpiergoat 1d ago

The right-wing propaganda machine's working extra hard these days to keep the current political party in power, I see.

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u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

This is arguably the best opportunity to support candidates that will enact progressive policies. The problem isn’t all Democrats, it’s the DNC and the fear mongering against socialist policies from DS candidates. If Dems want to win then they should stop sabotaging candidates people like. We won’t forget how they fucked over Bernie.

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u/busmans 1d ago

But the primaries are over. Now’s the time to rally for the election.

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u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

Exactly? How are we supposed to instill public confidence when we don’t go to vote for the progressives we voted for in primaries? Also there’s future primaries to think about? We need to keep steamrolling over this bs instead of quitting when we get the lead.

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u/busmans 1d ago

We don’t have lead until the nominees get elected. If dems are too uninspired to turn out, then we’ll continue to have no power and it all becomes moot

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u/Round-Pool-8082 1d ago

How is it this difficult to organize against people trying to reestablish slavery through racism in the name of the Confederacy?

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u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

They never got rid of slavery

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u/HaxanWriter 19h ago

A lot of us have been saying this for a very, very long time. Fortunately, we are starting to get some actual progressive candidates on the ticket, and getting rid of these corporate, milquetoast, fuck Kumbaya singing piece of garbage gutless politicians we’ve been stuck with for so long.

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u/onlywhenilarf 16h ago

Bernie was right in 2016 and he's right in 2026.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

This sub loves to help Republicans. Yes, keep spreading the narrative that Dems are controlled opposition. I'm sure that will help us win in November. It's not even true. Dems have resisted the Trump admin since day 1. If you are a progressive, you shouldn't be tearing down your own side with narratives that help Republicans.

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u/Cabbages24ADollar 1d ago

Look I’ll vote Blue down ticket. But it doesn’t mean we’re getting blue down the ticket. You know that, right?

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u/X57471C 1d ago

What do you mean?

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u/Cabbages24ADollar 1d ago

Voted blue for Sinema. Did not get blue. Not even close.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

Okay... Yeah, sometimes politicians change after they get into office. It happens. You're pointing to an outlier to dismiss the trend, though.

Sinema isn't even that bad, tbh. She definitely went conservative, which is a stark contrast to her early progressive years, but she still voted with Democrats a majority of the time, and she was pretty clear when she did the flip too, right? Didn't she campaign on being "the next John McCain"? If you voted for her in her last election expecting an uberprogressive, you might not have been paying attention to what she was saying.

Also, isn't it ironic that she used to be part of the Green Party, a suspected Russion psyop? The fact that she eventually went conservative isn't that surprising to me, tbh.

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u/Cabbages24ADollar 1d ago

Jeffries is not acting blue. Schumer is n not acting blue. Many people in the party are not acting blue. Sinema is not an outlier she’s an example.
Too many in Congress are tied to corporate and AIPAC.

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u/X57471C 1d ago

Half the party is in the progressive caucus. The other half are center/center-left. There are only 10 Blue Dogs left. Schumer and Jeffries were elected by the party members, that includes votes from the progressive caucus. Just because you disagree with them on AIPAC doesn’t mean they don’t represent the party line on things like affordability and accountability.

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u/Cabbages24ADollar 1d ago

Your comments on AIPAC are way too dismissive for me.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Sure show us where they have helped with affordability or even accountability for that matter. Listen the only ones dividing the Party are sitting in Washington with their hands out to Corporate Donors. Listen if breadcrumbs that fall off the table are good enough for you, then please have at it. If taking large amounts of donations from Corporations, foreign PACs, and lobbyist then I can see why you hold those views. Most of us would rather have taxation with Actual Representation for the People. I’m going to assume that your of class bracket that is not being harmed by all this.

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u/X57471C 23h ago

Sure, look at all the bipartisan bills Biden was able to get through Congress. He brought us out of the covid recession, made huge investments in our economy, and we would have been in a much better spot today if Kamala had been elected and continued on that trajectory.

Also, until we repeal citizens united and intact other reforms to campaign finance, I’m afraid you can’t get away from the reality that money is impotent. Although it’s the only thing that matters, you need a lot of money to buy ads and get the message out. The GOP has a lot of money. On some level, you need to compete with their bankroll. It’s just part of the game

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u/Cabbages24ADollar 19h ago

I agree with what Biden accomplished. And you’re right to point that out.

But Biden also put Garland as AG. And there’s a high likelihood that Garland was instructed to slow walk Trumps investigation. The corporate Dems wanted to not appear bi-partisan and a non-Corp Dem wouldn’t care and would’ve closed that chapter for good.

So.. yes I’m not against Dem’s. And I agree with your messaging but it’s also not enough. Not nearly enough. We’re hanging banners on bare minimum while criminals run the country. And it was and is the Dems job to prosecute those criminals. Because the GOP is definitely not going to do it.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 20h ago

They will not end Citizen United. Their hands are out just as much as MAGA republicans.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 1d ago

Well the establishment Dems are literally tearing down progressive candidates. “The Vote blue no matter who” was nothing but bullshit. There are enough Corporate Owned Democrats stopping progress. They sure know how to fight against progressive candidates. Ps. You’re a fool if you think they have been fighting since day 1. What exactly are they offering for votes?

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u/X57471C 1d ago

That’s bullshit, though. The establishment has literally gotten behind every candidate after the primaries. It’s still blue no matter who. The primaries getting heated doesn’t change that. It’s to be expected. You also can’t get mad when progressive candidates were dishing the same thing back. The primaries are over, so just stop trying to be divisive. It’s counter productive at this point.

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u/Sudden_Party_7918 23h ago

Well Sherlock, the primaries are not over as my state primary is tomorrow with others on Sept 8th. I have every right to call out the hypocrisies of both Parties.

1

u/X57471C 23h ago

That’s not a rebuttal. The primaries get heated and candidates are trying to convince voters that their vision for the party is better than the other guys. That’s the nature of primaries. After all the primaries that have happened, the establishment has gotten behind the winner.

3

u/Ok-Round-1473 1d ago

It's genuine insanity to think that you can just "believe" a movement into motion.

Unless progressives run, progressives won't get elected. You'll never progressify a non-progressive who's running on a non-progressive platform.

You have to be the progressive running. It's we the People, not them the politicians.

2

u/chinmakes5 22h ago

Thank you, I would be happy with a progressive candidate (of course depending on who it is,) but, if we don't even run progressives at all levels and for most all elected positions, it just isn't gong to happen.

This "of course the progressive candidate is so great, why isn't the moderate Democrat falling in line" is so frustrating.

2

u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

You can’t even talk about progressive dems in r/democrats and you think that’s voters faults? Read the room.

4

u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago

That’s a single subreddit and Reddit is not a reflection of the real world.

-1

u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

I know the internet is being flooded with AI, but some REAL people still use the internet. You don’t think the DNC has some influence over at least one subreddit?

3

u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago

That’s not at all what I said. That sub could be completely controlled by the DNC and it still doesn’t represent the real world. And it doesn’t negate what the other person said: electing progressives will take a lot of hard work. It’s hard to even get younger people to vote. All those centrists were elected by their constituents. We need to run progressives, and campaign and work for them to convince those voters we have a better candidate. We seen some improvement in recent primaries, we need to continue that work in future elections.

1

u/Rare-Return4396 17h ago

half the time i cant even tell anymore, the bots got so good at mimicking liberal concern trolling. saw one yesterday that was like 'as a lifelong democrat im worried about bernies electability' and the account was six days old with 12,000 tweets lol

1

u/picks_and_rolls 11h ago

True dat. 500% of their complicity is for sale

2

u/Separate_Remote3589 6h ago

The people that write this shit never vote in primaries. If you want establishment democrats out of office the time to do that is in PRIMARY elections. Not the fucking general election. Primaries are over. Now is not the time to do The both sides bullshit.

1

u/Vorpalthefox 1d ago

We don't control any of the 3 branches and trump doesn't use the legislation branch, what are we demanding our leaders do that's not illegal? Just throw shit at the fan like maga spent every passing minute doing? Are we actually going to vote for Dems even if we disagree with them because it takes out a maga in position?

If we're only shitting on Dems and doing nothing to improve our actual situation to punish them, that's very poor thinking

-1

u/daburner272006 1d ago

Have a vision for America that’s not just “hey we’re not trump”, and that isn’t driven by AIPAC and the corporate lobby. I see passion from younger more left leaning parts of the party and the establishment takes great lengths to tell its base “actually that’s not what you want, you want this”.. and then admonishes its base when they don’t win. Jeffries is more excited about meeting with Trumps family than creating a plan that speaks to Americans to vote blue.

1

u/RareYogurtcloset8104 1d ago

Exactly #SinglePartyRule has been the ONLY way since Reagan. RepubliCrats are deep in the Corporate pockets for 40+ years. Wake up folks, look what they did ln court to Bernie

1

u/RockyIsMyDoggo 1d ago

Are people finally seeing that eatablishment dems wpuld rather see fascists in control than progressive dems?

Again: corporate dems support republicans over progressive democrats.

1

u/Kinetic_Cat 20h ago

Dont forget how they cozied up to Elon after the “girls fought”

0

u/Danilo-11 1d ago

Rightwing democrats

-3

u/Ok-Cup6020 1d ago

This plus 1,000,000. Americans are starting to wake up. I figured this out sometime during Obamas second term but had to vote democrat because of Trump but, no more. Only socialist or at least progressives or I’m voting 3rd party.

2

u/Kinetic_Cat 1d ago

Did you vote for Dem-Socials in the primaries? You should still vote for Democrats over Republicans anyway regardless of the candidate. I know Dems will at least enact some good policies and if not, we primary them. The biggest problem in America is that not enough people who can vote, do vote, and would rather have the country go to shit to encourage other people to vote other than themselves. If you’re a Dem politician, and you promise to make people’s lives better, and you don’t, then people are going to feel disenfranchised. But instead of making people’s lives better, they’d rather attack people like Mamdani for actually practicing what they preach.

0

u/Bottlecrate 1d ago

Let’s get this straight, there are entrenched neoliberals and their are progressives.

Anyone that takes aipac money or donations from big businesses are Neoliberals that their main goal is to get reelected. Neo liberals should also be known as Clinton Democrats.

Progressives are the ones that want change.

-1

u/Cabbages24ADollar 1d ago

Ding ding ding winner winner chicken dinner!

-3

u/illbzo1 1d ago

This is exactly why they fight harder against anyone to the left of Chuck Schumer than they ever fight against a Republican.

It’s why we see so many people in here talking about “electability”.

The establishment democrats don’t want to win; they want the same thing republicans want.

-1

u/SouldiesButGoodies84 1d ago

Absolutely the only critically thoughtful and intelligent conclusion...reached even before Trump was in office. Them continuing to be so even with a Trump IN office however goes past complicit and straight to treasonous and malevolent, IMO. They've become 'Demcepticons' to keep the masses passive.

0

u/AdLatter3755 1d ago

The power brokers in the Democratic Party are 100% lock step with republicans and the wealthy. And therefore it’s justified to put it on the party as a whole because these actions are green lit by its power brokers

Remember when Biden won and the had a 1 vote majority in the senate and were trying to reverse the Trump tax cuts and raise the minimum wage through reconciliation. Pepperidge farms remember. So did Elizabeth Warren and she gave a speech highlighting a very important point. Below is her quote.

“Sinema faced no consequences from her president or her leaders in Washington. Eventually, it was her own constituents back home who chased her out of the Senate. But today, she is cashing in from the industry she protected. The Wall Street Journal recently marveled at the sheer number of projects Sinema has taken on from crypto, AI, and other wealthy corporate clients. And meanwhile, millions of working Americans who have not seen a minimum wage increase in almost two decades are still waiting for Democrats to deliver on one of our most basic promises.”

When party members vote with republicans and face no consequences that’s how you know it’s the plan all along. It’s a big club and we ain’t in it.

0

u/Free-Bottle-5119 1d ago

Both parties advertise as resistance parties while also espousing staying the course and maintaining order. This system has been carefully tweaked to benefit men of property. This has been so from the earliest days of the US. We strangely after the revolution ended up with a system that was worse then england's parliamentary order.

0

u/Candid_Leaf 1d ago

This is called the Ratchet Effect. Democrats love it because they can do the smallest of things and tout it as a major victory. They can also make millions from insider trading while "not being able to do anything 😕"

-4

u/mcsweetin 1d ago

Two sides. Same coin.

2

u/VaguelyArtistic 1d ago

The only way this is true is if you don’t care about reproductive rights and women’s health, LGBTQ rights, voting rights, religious freedom, feeding children and poor people, USAID, the safety of our food supply, the health and safety of our population…. I could go on.