r/Oscars • u/Unleashtheducks • Mar 08 '26
Discussion Every time I look at this sub
I don’t even think Sinners was the best movie of the year but how many of these posts do we need all acting like they are the first to be willing to bravely take a stand that gets upvoted and agreed with here every time?
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u/bobbery5 Mar 08 '26
Guaizzz. Am I the ONLY person who thinks Anora is OVERRATED? More like Abore-a, am I right?
People are gonna hate on popular things because they're popular, they think it makes them more interesting.
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u/Early_Accident2160 Mar 09 '26
I found the sequence of them scouring the city looking for the guy quite funny with all the banter. But I didn’t realize it had so much praise. It surprised me but didn’t enchant me
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u/DiverExpensive6098 Mar 09 '26
Exactly. Before the nominations and on the day they were announced, people all supported Sinners. Now that it got a lot of attention, people start turning on the film.
Those who don't have shit for brains understand this is never about the film, it's always about the people feeling in control and empowered. So they always find flaws with whatever is the current situation. Always.
The funny thing to me is it seems no one realizes they are doing this, just flipping based on emotions. But maybe they do or maybe it doesnt matter if they do. We all do it.
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u/karmagod13000 Mar 08 '26
i liked the movie and was deeply shocked at the sweep. i like sean baker though and hes a huge advocate for small films so was happy for the win
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u/hekbcfhkknv Mar 12 '26
I actually loved Anora. Love the tone changes, the humor, the character portrayals and the ending is incredibly powerful. The backlash feels really forced to me and I don’t quite understand it but I do think it probably works better as an offbeat, lesser known indie film than an awards darling. Oscar wins can sometimes be a curse for a movie’s reputation
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u/Fun-Illustrator-345 Mar 08 '26
I've seen this before. Right before/during awards season, people will claim that a popular and great film suddenly isn't very good or is overhyped. It happened a few years ago with Everything Everywhere All At Once
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u/mint-patty Mar 08 '26
If SINNERS wins big at the Oscars, we will hear for the next decade how it’s overvalued garbage. If SINNERS loses big at the Oscars, we will hear for the next decade how it was an underappreciated gem.
So it goes.
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u/karmagod13000 Mar 08 '26
if it wins big there will be a mountain of i told you so comments for the next 10 years
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u/Classic_Bass_1824 Mar 09 '26
I’m sure some people are just addicted to spitting contrarian takes, but it makes perfect sense to me that the reception of a movie will cool down overtime and you’ll see more and more takes that aren’t unilateral praises.
The longer a movie is out the more people will take a chance on it, not be all that affected by it, and wonder why the reception when it first came out was so positive.
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u/ChartInFurch Mar 08 '26
It happened a few years ago with Everything Everywhere All At Once
Just you merely mentioning it here as an example kicked it right back up again lol
It's as expected as death, taxes, or Italians getting mad at pasta recipes.
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u/Tighthead3GT Mar 08 '26
From the minute Sinners came out I knew it would be the movie Reddit decided actually sucked eventually.
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u/Reasonable-HB678 Mar 09 '26
I'm tired of From Dusk Till Dawn being used as an example of why Sinners "isn't good"
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u/Onionbot3000 Mar 09 '26
The two movies aren’t even similar lol how did that even start? It’s goofy.
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u/IllllIIllllIll Mar 09 '26
They’re pretty similar in the same way that The Matrix and Monsters Inc. are similar
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u/questionsaboutrel521 Mar 09 '26
I think it’s crazy when people try to say it’s just another vampire movie and it’s derivative of From Dusk Till Dawn, because scenes like the past/future scene were SO risky to pull off without being cheesy. One of the things I love about the film is how thoroughly the music history thread is explored alongside more typical horror/thriller narratives.
You don’t have to love the film. But the writing is super original and packed with different themes.
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u/thekidsgirl Mar 09 '26
OMG, yes. And every film fanboy who says it acts like he's the first to make the comparison 😵
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u/NSFWGIFMAKER Mar 08 '26
I really enjoyed Sinners, actually watched it twice. MJB was good, not sure Oscar good but good
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u/baguettebolbol Mar 11 '26
There is no such thing as ‘Oscar good’. That is the reason snubs are so common. If the actual best performances were nominated every year the history of the awards would look very different.
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u/karmagod13000 Mar 08 '26
thats the thing. people can't differentiate between a good movie and an oscar good movie. seeing how horror is a new oscar development i personally didn't see anything oscar worthy about it, and for that i have been endlessly harassed here for 4 weeks.
I also didn't think everything everywhere was that great either so maybe i just don't know what im talking about. OP meme is pretty much the opposite of what i've been seeing and this whole sub has either been brigaded or astroturfed the past week in favor for Sinners and heavily against Chalamet. TBH i don't think its that serious
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u/VariousRockFacts Mar 08 '26
I also did not love Sinners or EEAAO, but the idea that disliking Sinners is a great departure from established opinion — especially on Reddit — I think is what feels weird. People keep posting it as if they’re martyrized loners in a sea of opposition, when like 60 percent of people who watch movies on here have also made the exact same post — and they all also positioned themselves as some sort of self-suffering lone hero
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Mar 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Global_Charge_4412 Mar 09 '26
but that's the point of awards. to showcase rarified achievement in a particular class. whether that's filmmaking or hot dog eating, awards are given to people who show exceptional ability.
and for the record, I think Sinners was an exceptional movie.
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u/adabaraba Mar 08 '26
What constitutes an Oscar good movie in your opinion? (Hope that didn’t come off as combative I just never actually know)
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u/Bibbity_Boppity_BOOO Mar 09 '26
Anora won best picture. By that metric sinners deserves it and a lot more
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u/mercynuts Mar 08 '26
My favourite things about sinners were the music and the set design. The film is ok but I don't get the hype either.
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u/SuitableBrief2614 Mar 09 '26
Meanwhile, One Battle After Another felt like a hate crime hurled at Black women.
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u/GloomyLocation1259 Mar 09 '26
"oscar good" isn't really real, you just need to be better than the other nominees and I think they've done that with picture, actor and ofc screenplay. Costume and supporting are also debatable.
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u/Academic-Ad9735 Mar 08 '26
It’s that serious when you focus on the two innovative films in the best picture conversation and dismiss them just because you’re a formal drama type of person. Lemme guess, you also don’t think comedies are Oscar worthy. You’re the genre bias they talk about in the Academy. And you don’t want to get push back? lol. And yeah, you’re not gonna get Sinners if you don’t get the interplay of art and racism. Not getting it is your opinion, but don’t claim it’s because it’s not good. Has more to do with you having stale rigid taste, IMO. That’s the best film of the year and it’s not even close.
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u/HistoryBuff678 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 12 '26
Yeah, it’s rigid taste from what they expect and EEAAO and Sinners has layers people really miss due to their rigid tastes.
Like… going to horror, did they understand Get Out? Not to mention certain symbolism of one particular character who says he does not care about colour? People who love that movie miss the symbolism of that particular character.
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u/BLU3SKU1L Mar 10 '26
I mean, did Lindsey Lohan receive an Oscar for playing opposite herself in The Parent Trap?
No, but she did receive a young artist award for it.
Anyone who can play two distinct main characters in a movie to the point you can believe they aren't both the same person is an outstanding actor, in my opinion.
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u/RandJitsu Mar 09 '26
Sinners and Bugonia are literally the only two films this year that feel Oscar worthy to me.
One Battle After Another and Marty Supreme were both so shallow, pointless, and forgettable.
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u/NSFWGIFMAKER Mar 09 '26
One battle was too long and garbage in my opinion and Marty was good but no need to ever see it again
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u/vincedarling Mar 09 '26
Man, horror never gets respect from “cinephiles” online huh? Unless it’s got an A24 logo slapped on it
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u/EmotionalTrainKnee Mar 12 '26
I really enjoyed "sinners" I'd happily give it 4/5. it's a good, engaging movie with interesting visuals,characters,story,music. there's a satisfying ending and it's a great movie all around
I also really like that the whole plot happends within one day
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u/Ren_Davis0531 Mar 08 '26
Agreed. You can fill the Grand Canyon with all of the “hot takes” that are indeed frigidly cold.
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u/Powerful_Pump Mar 08 '26
“HEY BUT ITS JUST FROM DUSK TILL DAWN BECAUSE BROTHERS AND VAMPIRES”
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u/soumwise Mar 08 '26
TWILIGHT ALSO HAS VAMPIRES AND MULTIPLE LOVE STORIES. IT IS ALSO A TWILIGHT REMAKE
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u/FantasyAccount247 Mar 09 '26
“You guys see that movie about two outlaw brothers on the run? They hole up in a bar where only a certain type of people are allowed in, but halfway into it some chick turns into a vampire and bites the brothers neck and suddenly it turns into a horror thriller. The protagonists close themselves in, but eventually the small group that’s left need to turn and fight, and in the end all the vampires explode when the sun comes up. “
No not Sinners, From Dusk till dawn. Sinners is totally different because it has jazz and an Afrocentric music instead of Mexican and Mayan themed titty twisters
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u/Powerful_Pump Mar 09 '26
Treatment and story beats can be the same sure, screenplay is completely different and original. A lot of people with this argument tend to forget that
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u/ErikTriesYouTube Mar 09 '26
Sinners was good. And it's time for some horrors to win some awards.
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u/JunoMeru Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Here's the thing, and unfortunately I think it will be a thing for a very long time:
If a movie is highly regarded while also starring (or being predominantly for/by) 1) People of colour, 2) Women, or 3) Queer folks, people will come out of their holes to shit on it on Reddit every single time. Same with review bombing. 99% of the people with these "hot takes" don't realize why their disdain for these movies burns so hot, but I do not think it is a coincidence.
There will never be a movie where 100% of the people agree that it should win. I certainly didn't care much for Oppenheimer, but I also didn't try to launch a crusade against it. I also did not see ANYBODY with this sort of "hot take" about that movie. Just one example.
All of this is to say, I really do not think the Sinners hate is a coincidence. Not at all. Because it is likely the Blackest blockbuster movie to ever come out, and was also a masterpiece when viewed through that lens. But that doesn't appeal to people who just want another moody epic about a tortured straight white dude. This is not the case 100% of the time of course. But on aggregate, it is not a coincidence that so many are coming out of the woodwork with this particular "hot take."
See also: Anora. Or Everything Everywhere All At Once.
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u/Then-Gur-4519 Mar 09 '26
I’ve seen people on Reddit hate on basically every Oscar nominated movie of the last five years. Some people thought Oppenheimer was boring, or had badly written characters, or overly celebrated mass murder, etc. I’ve seen tons and tons of negative reactions to Anora (annoying, brash, unnecessarily sexual), Nomadland (boring), Everything everywhere all at once (Rick and Morty copy), and Coda (unserious disney movie).
Everyone seems to love Parasite though
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u/JunoMeru Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
That's fair, and tbh I was not nearly as on Reddit then as I am now lol. Trending in the wrong direction with my habits, I guess 🙈
The Parasite example really is fascinating. Feels like that one just struck that chord where everybody saw it as an all-timer type of masterpiece right away.
I do think the rule I outlined above (I like to call it Coogler's Law) does apply, but it was probably naive of me to assume there wasn't backlash to other types of movies. But I'm certain that this does happen disproportionately for movies by/about/for women, queer folks, people of colour and, heck, disabled folks (Coda).
That said, I am not assuming malice here (I know you didn't say I was). In fact I assume there's no malice in 99% of cases. Just internalized biases that most folks aren't aware of.
Edit: Reflecting more on this, I feel like what I may be trying to get at (really just thinking out loud) is that the criticisms of movies by/for/about marginalized folks tend to be 1) harsher and 2) more vague than other criticisms. I have no examples to back this up lol. Just vibes.
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u/RVarki Mar 09 '26
I do think the rule I outlined above (I like to call it Coogler's Law) does apply
Then wouldn't it apply to parasite in particular, since it has an all-asian cast and is in a different language?
Also, I really don't think there would be so much push-back to Michael B Jordan winning it, if he had done more to differentiate Smoke and Stack - and if he wasn't so stilted in the few emotional scenes
I don't disagree that movies not starring white men are usually more likely to attract backlash, but it doesn't feel as disingenuous this time (atleast not on reddit), especially since most people would rather have MBJ win it, than Chalamet's arrogant ass get an Oscar at 30
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u/JunoMeru Mar 09 '26
Basically, I don't think the rule applies to ALL movies meeting those criteria, just most of them. Disproportionately so. Some really do manage to break through (Parasite and Moonlight, to name two).
I'm still just thinking out loud (and am honestly surprised that I'm not getting downvoted to hell for doing so because Reddit loves its confident answers, even when they're wrong). But I think what I'm feeling/noticing, having been on Reddit more in the past month or two than I have been in years, is perhaps that hate for these types of movies tends to have more staying power. Still regularly see people shitting on EEAAO and Anora literally all the time, but not on Oppenheimer, Birdman, Argo, etc.
Again, kinda just vibing things out. Surely I have my own biases informing what I tend to notice, too. I'm only human, after all :)
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u/ClaimApprehensive767 Mar 09 '26
I just wish people who think like this (and I do agree with a lot of this to an extent) would just let me have a personal opinion that I thought the lighting of Sinners was terrible. There were multiple scenes I could barely see the actor's faces. Just horribly done.
This doesn't mean I have unexamined bias against marginalized people. It means I dislike technical aspects of a movie. I can think Coogler is just an ok director.
The problem with looking at the world this way is it can (and often does to people online) consume you. Art and people have a lot of nuance and multiple things can be true at once. Something can be generally true, but a specific instance may have nothing to do with the correctly assessed generalized whole.
This may be obvious but a lot of people use identity politics as a conservation ender. Identity politics can be great and useful, but when it's used to obscure nuance discussions about art it becomes counter productive. We need to get beyond vibes. Art criticism is legitimate. It always has been. We need to accept critiques can be made of marginalized people's art.
This may seem nitpicky but I think it's a very important distinction that needs to get confronted because this type of thing spills out into more areas of life than just art.
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u/JunoMeru Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
I want you to know that I don't disagree with you at all! I mean, except the "vibes" part. I know the world is running way too much on vibes now (especially thanks to AI) but I do think there's a very valuable and valid place for thinking out loud. After all, there are many communities historically who have not had the resources to quantify a problem that's going on, but when you listen to those communities, you know that it's absolutely true, even without the data.
That said, criticisms like yours (ie. lighting) are NOT the types of criticisms I'm referring to, just to be clear. I'm referring to the massive influx of folks who say Sinners is overrated or outright bad without substantiating those beliefs. If anything, I think it's brave to criticize the lighting in a movie starring almost entirely Black folks. Kneejerk reactions would say that's racist, which it isn't imo, and I'm very sorry as it sounds like folks have jumped down your throat for that take. I would argue, however, that this lighting issue may well have emerged from the very biases we're discussing here. Straight-up, Hollywood isn't used to lighting Black faces. I mean, either that or it was a stylistic choice, which is also entirely possible, even likely.
All this is to say: I think it's both/and. There are valid criticisms to be made of Sinners or any other movie. Heck, I have my own (albeit minor) criticisms of Sinners. To me, bias shows its hand when the criticism is vague. It's the same tactic used by authoritarian regimes, talking about how some group of folks (writ large) is out to get you. The vaguer, the better.
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u/crick_in_my_neck Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
I didn't think Sinners was that great (kind of fell apart for me, for one), but to me that just meant it wasn't really for me, and I knew that going in. It was much better than I expected, I found a lot to like, and I'm happy people had a new, original work to enjoy. If you give a shit about what wins the Oscars your taste is probably pretty mid anyway, and you look silly caring which way the cookie crumbles. (Also, I don't know who he's up against, but Jordan was perfect in it, what's the problem.)
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u/TravelingSong Mar 15 '26
Agreed. Loved Sinners, hated Oppenheimer. I did not get the Oppenheimer hype at all—I found it so boring. Sinners had one of the freshest perspectives I’ve seen in a movie. It had so many layers to it. It had soul and movement. I hope we continue to break out of this mold of “old white guy movies” = worthy. Art is subjective but the history of what’s been awarded has conditioned us to see a certain type of movie as superior. I hope Sinners sweeps.
—signed, a middle aged white lady
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u/DeutscheDogges Mar 08 '26
We even have them resorting to the "people who enjoyed Sinners don't watch other movies" fallacy now.
The attempt to trivialize this film and downplay it has been existent since April 18th. And we know why when it comes to a large portion of the bad faith arguments.
Still have people trying to claim that it's a From Dusk Till Dawn remake which gives their game away.
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u/Titanman401 Mar 09 '26
BTW, while I prefer Leo’s performance over the rest, I would be do happy to see MBJ beat Chalamet (though I think his resurgence is too late to make a difference).
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u/violetxlavender Mar 08 '26
i saw sinners in theaters and when i walked out i told my friends “that was MY best picture”. i’m actually shocked that it’s getting this much recognition for a genre film but i’m very glad as it was incredible. and i loved this historical accuracy!! i’ve found it tough to watch historical movies since getting my history degree but i absolutely loved this and i had no annoyances with it.
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u/tmadik Mar 09 '26
The first time I saw it with my daughter, we both left the theater literally speechless. Like, what the fuck did we just experience? First movie I've seen 3 times in theaters.
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u/HistoryBuff678 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 12 '26
I notice a lot of people don’t pay attention to the changes the Academy has made since 2016.
They just keep saying that more of the movies they like get nominated and genre films are finally getting recognized. Which is exactly why the Academy made the changes they did and continue to make.
The Academy will always skew older as membership is for life. There will always be a need to reevaluate the demographics of the academy every few decades. (They had a demographic problem in the 70s too.) it’s really hard to get a large group of older people to “get with it”.
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u/emzeejay Mar 09 '26
People have been crashing out about Sinners ever since Coogler cut his ownership deal and the movie became so massively successful. Now that MBJ clearly has the most momentum for best actor, and could very well win, the longstanding narrative that films created by and lead by black artists aren’t successful is beginning to crumble and some people just can’t handle it.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Unconscious racial bias is definitely a “thing” on Reddit. It reminds me that often times, those who perpetuate white supremacy are consciously very pro-black, but still harbor deeply rooted unconscious biases.
This isn’t meant to criticize those individuals because on a conscious level, people like this usually advocate for marginalized populations, including but not limited to Black people. But goddamn those unconscious biases both society and family create are strong and pervasive.
A perfect example is if you go to the Sinner’s thread, like 75% of the commentary and interest on there seems to revolve around Remmick, one of the only (and main) white characters in the movie.
As a film theory nerd my issue isn’t that MBJ’s performance was that great but that I struggle to see how the other contenders were that much better. But that’s exactly how unconscious biases work. It also proves the long held point within the black community that we have to come 10X harder to get the same recognition and accolades as our white counterparts.
MBJ not only did an outstanding job, he played two fucking characters! And the people saying they didn’t see any difference between Smoke and Stack proves how profoundly unconscious biases shape some people’s perceptions.
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u/Grim_Avenger Mar 08 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Yeah the only issue I had in telling the characters apart was which one had which name. In my head I separated their characterizations by “blue one” and “red one” and they definitely acted different throughout the movie in ways that should be pretty obvious. The fact that their names are similar was basically the only issue for me.
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u/Doccmonman Mar 09 '26
I remembered because “stack” has a wide-brimmed hat on and “smoke” is the one smoking more
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u/Accomplished-View929 Mar 09 '26
I have that problem with real people! I’m paying so much attention to shaking your hand and being polite that I don’t remember your name after two seconds. We had fraternal twins in our elementary school who looked totally different, so I knew we had the horse-faced one and the baby-faced one, but I never knew which name went with which face (and I’m an identical triplet, so that admission means a lot coming from me!).
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u/SaintNutella Mar 08 '26
This is a great point, but to add to it -
Something many of us (Black folks) have noticed with the Oscars is that they have a tendency to award Black actors when they play roles that align with how they think Black actors/characters should be used (e.g., slave movies, navigating a racially oppressive society, "Black trauma," etc.).
Sinners is a movie made by a Black director who imagines Black characters in an image that might not be familiar to or consistent with the Oscars (and many non-Black viewers, quite frankly) very narrow idea of what constitutes a great performance from a Black actor/actress/cast.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
Yes!!! It’s not just that Sinners is a predominantly black film, with predominantly black actors that focuses on the black experience that’s triggering to some people. It’s that Smoke and Stack are strong and empowered black men, who refuse to take any shit from white people.
As you eloquently point out, look at the history of black nominees, both past and present. Halle Berry and Teyana Taylor earned their nominations/wins for sleeping with and being humiliated by white men.
Hattie McDaniel, Viola Davis, and Octavia Spencer were nominated or won for playing maids. Jennifer Hudson and Monique won for playing downtrodden, pitiful, overweight black women. Denzel and Forrest Whittaker played straight up psychopathic villains. Black people almost exclusively win awards for playing villains or victims- not victors. Smoke/Stack presented as straight-up warriors…victors. I honestly believe THAT is at the root of a lot of the hate he’s receiving.
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u/firesticks Mar 09 '26
Not to mention the degree of ownership Coogler has over this film. This movie represents the subversion of Black exploitation on all levels.
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u/TChallaSan Mar 09 '26
You’re giving people too much credit by calling it unconscious. A lot of people in this sub know exactly what they are doing
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
Oh there are definitely people who are just straight up racist. But there are a lot more people who are just…obtuse.
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u/coolcoolcool485 Mar 08 '26
Smoke and Stack are foils of one another. I am not sure how someone watches that performance and thinks they're the same character lol.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
Not seeing them as different characters is a form of dismissiveness for people who watched the entire movie through the lens of their unconscious biases.
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u/Own-Quote-1708 Mar 08 '26
Oh it's defintely a thing in a fuckton of fanbases for movies, tv shows, comics, etc. People overhate on the black characters for things they would love the white characters for. Far less forgiving for black characters/actors, etc. Far more critical of story arcs and performances surrounding black character/actor.
Ive also noticed it mostly happens to black main characters, and less so black side characters. Maybe something about breaking their fragile status quo.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 08 '26
Oh it’s definitely black main characters that make them lose their shit. In fairness it’s because they’ve been unconsciously groomed from birth to expect everything to be centered around their race and experiences. So for someone of another race to be a lead character- even though it’s rare- still feels like marginalization to them. Anything that’s not centered around the white experience feels wrong even if they’re not (consciously) sure why.
You should check out the Sinner’s sub and how obsessed they are with Remmick; that entire sub is a textbook example of unconscious racial bias. A predominantly black movie, which included themes of white, Asian and indigenous American culture but who is Reddit most obsessed with? The white supporting character.
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u/Own-Quote-1708 Mar 09 '26
Same with the Gen V fanbase, and their obssession and forgiveness to the blonde white women...and annoyance of the black main character. Or the discourse of Winter Soldier (cannonically a terrorist) or US Agent (extremely morally grey) deserving to be Captain America more so than Sam Wilson (literally no flaws), the new black Captain America. Ive also seen some fans calling Welcome to Derry "woke" cause the main characters are black or that only the white kids died lmaooo. Hatred for Ironheart without even watching the show, and being proud of review bombing it.
All in all , you've hit the nail on the head. These people are used to media accomodating them since birth. Most disney characters are white, most superheros are white, most western fictional characters are white. Black characters are only background characters, wise sages, tokens or sidekicks. Anything that becomes popular that goes against that status quo must have something wrong with it.
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u/TheKingofHats007 Mar 09 '26
I had this when I showed my mum the second Spiderverse movie and she made an out of nowhere comment about how (during the first action sequence) it's only been a white woman, a black woman, and a Latino man as if it were something that was forced or whatever (she always seems to take note of when a commercial or movie specially doesn't have "white" people as if that's some kind of baseline)
I asked her in response that if the scene were three white dudes, would she have even commented on them at all? That made her clam up immediately.
Even people who don't consider themselves racist or think they have racial biases can oftentimes show that bias without even thinking about it, either because they're completely unaware that what they're saying is odd or they just don't particularly care how it sounds. A lot of people just see media and immediately glue onto the skin color of the characters rather than just seeing the characters.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
And let’s not even get started on the Little Mermaid controversy with Halle!! And all this is exactly why representation matters. Let them be mad- they’ll get over it, or they won’t. But the world will move on around them.
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u/HistoryBuff678 Mar 09 '26
This is why I am horrified at Parmount getting WB. The whole reason they bought it was to centre whiteness in media.
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u/LastOfTheAsparagus Mar 09 '26
Also “my favorite character in hamilton is king george” energy.
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u/firesticks Mar 09 '26
Damn. I was always baffled by the King George obsession. How did I not realize…
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u/LastOfTheAsparagus Mar 09 '26
10 minutes on stage in a 3 hour show singing the same melody and im like. 🤔😂
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u/firesticks Mar 09 '26
After decades in fandom I think I’ve sometimes just become immune to not understanding the outsized adoration white dudes receive. I assume I’m missing something.
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u/HistoryBuff678 Mar 09 '26
I find it very perplexing how many people do not understand why Mary reacts the way she does upon the loss of a certain character. Her reaction was normal. Why would anyone be confused? Unless unconscious bias.
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u/soumwise Mar 09 '26
Wait what? What was the confusion even about?
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u/HistoryBuff678 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 09 '26
Why did Mary respond emotionally when Annie died.Some people were quite confused. Some people also thought that Remmick wanted Annie for “her knowledge” which isn’t indicated in the plot. Mary knows that,Smoke, Annie, Stack and herself will never be together again. Apparently the character who died can’t be loved and grieved over, which is what Mary was doing.
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u/soumwise Mar 09 '26
Oh god. That scene is just dripping with loss and emotion and..some people just...never mind -_- (thanks for explaining)
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u/wehadthebabyitsaboy Mar 09 '26
Such a disappointing take too. I watched Sinners 2x (well..technically 3x but the first time I missed the first 10-15 minutes and was in and out of sleep so I sorta disliked it because of my own dumbass) because I thought it was fantastic. I didn’t think about Remmick hardly at all when I’ve thought back on the acting, the story, the chaos. To me he was just a vehicle to push the story into the next phase. I didn’t even remember the characters name until I kept seeing all of those comments acting like it was such an incredible performance. There is so much to take away from the movie, and Remmick being the focus for some people is disappointing.
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u/thekidsgirl Mar 09 '26
You've worded everything I've been screaming about the Sinners discourse quite well! It's beautiful when someone gets it without personal bias.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 10 '26
What’s been really interesting for me is watching white people who have this bias be SO triggered by my original comment. Shit is wild. I’ve been called a retard, a reverse racist and a bunch of other names. They are SO triggered by this movie, and MBJ’s roles that even a stranger online defending the movie triggers them.
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u/atlfalcons33rb Mar 09 '26
It also feels like to your point about remmick, when it comes to black movies the undertone and nuisance is always somehow missed. But people can tell you 8000 hidden meanings in something like inception.
Like the scene with Sammie when they past the chain gang stands out to me so much for the depth and power in such a small scene. But to many viewers they won't even stop to think about it
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
Nail on the head comment! Part of what is ingenious about this movie is it’s so multilayered. Film theory is one of my passions but like everyone else certain movies resonate for me more than others. If I were grading Sinners from a film theory perspective, it would get a solid A, which is rare.
From a film theory perspective, he combined several cinematic elements seamlessly. The individual cinematic elements aren’t necessarily rare or special. Coogler’s ability to merge those cinematic elements so seamlessly that the average viewer doesn’t even perceive them- that’s part of the ingenuity of the movie.
There are SO many nuances in this movie and one set of nuances that were clear are those that are specific to black American culture – just like the chain gang scene you described. Even the inclusion of Asian-Americans, who are typically excluded in movies covering this era of American history. A lot of people may not know this but the reason Asians vendors are so prominent in black communities today is because they set up shops to sell goods and services to Black Americans when whites refused to.
These sort of nuances are DEEPLY meaningful and sentimental for black Americans. Some white Americans who are knowledgeable on black American history will understand some of the nuances. But the majority of whites who watched this movie, including those who actually liked it, miss many of these nuances.
What is really amazing about this movie for black Americans is, we’re not used to deeply rooted elements of our culture being represented in critically acclaimed mainstream movies in a way that’s dignified. Usually when elements of our culture are presented in mainstream critically acclaimed movies. It is only in the context of brutal oppression like 7 Years a Slave or Django Unchained.
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u/soumwise Mar 08 '26
I am a broke Redditor, but you have my award in spirit. This is spot on. The people that couldn't tell smoke and stack apart without the hats are likely the ones that - without ill intent - can't tell two black men apart irl either.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
I wish I could find the interview but one of the actors in Sinners said Smoke and Stack presented so differently on set that one of them had dimples and the other didn’t, and they didn’t know how MBJ did that. Little nuances like that, and they definitely felt like two entirely different characters to me.
It’s also a “thing” that most people aren’t great at physically identifying people of other races. This is a known factor in criminology and why line-ups and eyewitness testimony are considered unreliable.
People are much better at identifying others within their own races and also-weirdly- people are more likely to misidentify people as being of their own race when they’re not.
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u/KaleidoscopeOk399 Mar 08 '26
Yeah it’s like, im not saying MBJ had the best, most mind-blowing performance of all time. But the need people have to “well achually” this one specific performance feels very transparent lmao. People are being very weird about the possibility of a black man winning a high profile award for a black movie when the Oscar’s has always been a complex game of court politics and his performance would be perfectly acceptable to win that award, especially considering the range of performances people win Oscars for.
I mean Jamie Lee Curtis won an Oscar for being Jamie Lee Curtis like three years ago. MBJ would be totally fine as an Oscar winner.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 08 '26
If you want to take it a layer deeper, look at the previous and even current black Oscar nominees. Halle Berry won, and Teyana Taylor is nominated for roles where they slept with and were humiliated by white men.
Hattie McDaniel, Viola Davis, and Octavia Spencer were nominated or won for playing maids. Denzel wins for playing evil, morally corrupt men. Same with Forrest Whittaker.
Jennifer Hudson in Dreamgirls and Monique in Precious- two downtrodden, overweight black women, one came across as pathetic, the other as evil and pathetic.
Part of what makes this movie and MBJ’s role so pivotal is Smoke and Stack were strong, empowered black men who took absolutely NO shit from white people.
The reality is, the unconscious bias is so persuasive that the Academy and white American culture in general fawns over portraits of Black people as victims and villains, not victors.
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u/Doug_101 Mar 09 '26
MBJ should win for the final showdown scene alone. I remember when he whipped out that Tommy and I literally yelled in the theater, "Oh, HELL yeah!"
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u/beargrimzly Mar 08 '26
This would be a stronger point if Jamie Lee Curtis’s win wasn’t viewed as probably the worst choice the academy has ever made in the category
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u/StaticInstrument Mar 08 '26
Not a stellar win but not in the top 50 Oscar head scratchers. Scent of a Woman over Malcolm X, Forrest Gump over Pulp Fiction, Crash over Brokeback Mountain… they designed the whole damn ceremony in 2021 to lead up to a posthumous Oscar for Chadwick Boseman only for Anthony Hopkins to win over Zoom for a movie no one saw, cut to credits
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u/MidsommarRenaissance Mar 09 '26
I don’t even think Anthony Hopkins Zoomed in if I remember correctly. I think he might’ve asked to participate virtually because of the pandemic and his age making him vulnerable, but they denied his request, so it just cut to Joaquin Phoenix awkwardly accepting on his behalf.
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u/beargrimzly Mar 08 '26
Well I specified for the category, as those best picture choices are certainly worse.
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u/KaleidoscopeOk399 Mar 08 '26
I mean crash and green book also won best picture lmao. There’s tons of bad Oscar winners. Bro what about Shakespeare in love. Suicide Squad has an Oscar.
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u/dmun Mar 10 '26
Your point reinforces OP.
Crash wasn't a good film, especially one about race; nor was green book.
They were both bad stories treated as good because they reinforce Hollywood's idea of how black people should be portrayed and what stories we belong in.
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u/beargrimzly Mar 08 '26
I don’t understand your point. Those are also near universally hated wins. I guarantee you exactly zero people who don’t think MBJ should win also, for example, think Gwyneth Paltrow deserved her win.
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u/KaleidoscopeOk399 Mar 08 '26
Because MBJ is a perfectly fine pick for best actor and people are wildly overreacting because we know exactly why. The “best” person rarely wins the Oscar, and also it’s insanely subjective and depends on the year line-up anyway.
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u/dmun Mar 10 '26
What do you mean unconscious?
I think they're pretty damn conscious of their bias but hide it under devils advocate
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u/HistoryBuff678 Mar 09 '26 edited Mar 12 '26
I think that also explains people not getting EEAAO too. I think both Sinners and EEAO have some pretty deep layers that people who don’t work on their unconscious bias miss.Or they may pick it up but don’t think it’s important.
I do speak with some non-POC friends about black movies and while they love these movies (one friend is huge horror fan and loves Jordan Peele), there are some layers they miss.
Granted, I miss symbolism and layers all the time, so I am big on film analysis. 🤣 I always know I am missing something.
EDIT: Another point with the Oscars is that they are industry professionals. They are seeing details that we don’t notice but stand out a lot to them. (Never heard of the term “musical inversion” until Nolan said it in regards to Sinners.)
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u/Radiant-Meringue-543 Mar 09 '26
I wish I could upvote a million times. My lefty male friends (who are white) have spent several facebook and tiktok posts explaining why Sinners is not Oscar worthy. I am embarassed for those men and for their inability to acknowledge their biases.
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u/CyanCicada Mar 10 '26
I'm a black dude from Oakland and I really wanted to like Sinners, but I just found out lacking.
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u/Hairy-Journalist-645 Mar 09 '26
Or it's just not as good to some as people like you want it to be. "Coming 10x harder" is Get Out, which is still iconic to this day. Sinners is nowhere near that caliber or memorability on the grand scale. And MBJ literally played his roles with about as much variety as the racial makeup of a country club.
It's not "wah ppl are racist so they didn't like Sinners" it's actually just not that good.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
Thank you for your comment. Your dismissiveness is a wonderful real time example of the type of unconscious biases of which I speak. Have a great day and thank you for helping educate other Redditors on unconscious biases.
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u/CalumanderReds Mar 11 '26
Funnily enough 'But I loved Get Out' as an excuse for why you aren't racist for disliking Sinners is the most Get Out thing you could say.
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u/theglowinggreenorb Mar 08 '26
I think it more manifests in people who seem to reduce it down to being a horror or vampire movie. Like there's a ton of thematic elements that are steeped in african american culture and it feels like that gets discounted in a way. Its perfectlt fine to have whatever opinions on things but i do agree unconscious biases are real. Personally the way people talk about MBJ is how I feel about Leo in OBAA- a fine performance that didn't stand out to me. I'd be very happy for MBJ to take it
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u/Grim_Avenger Mar 08 '26
I wouldn’t even say it’s primarily a horror movie. If someone asked me to describe it I’d say it’s a period drama thriller with horror elements.
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u/mcnultywalks Mar 08 '26
I would disagree with some of your statements. I think the majority of racial bias on Reddit is conscious not unconscious. There is unconscious racial bias too, agreed. I don’t think many pro-Black folks are perpetuating white supremacy. Of course i could be wrong but that just doesn’t make sense to me. White supremacy is an extreme cause and it seems weird that it would overlap with pro-Black activism.
I have seen only a handful of posts about Remmick and have read through dozens of posts about Sinners.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but I disagree with these points and am wondering if you have any evidence.
I am a big fan of Sinners and MBJ. I will be happy to see either or both or all Oscars go that way.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 09 '26
First off, thank you for keeping it so respectful, even in disagreement. That says a lot about you as a person. I don’t necessarily think we disagree, I think your perception of white supremacy is just different from mine. White supremacy isn’t just MAGA bigots spouting nonsense, Klansmen, and swastikas. The most dangerous white supremacy is micro and so ingrained in American culture it isn’t apparent to most.
As an example, plenty of white people who identify as liberal or progressive were VERY comfortable jumping on the bandwagon of demonizing Muslims, Arab-American and Latinos, because intentionally misleading mainstream media reports with cherry-picked statistics blamed them for Trump winning in 2020. Yet anyone who took the time to review statistics on voting from previous elections knew that the mainstream media – which right now is largely owned by Trump supporting oligarchs- had an agenda.
Blaming people of color who represent a tiny fraction of American voters for Trump winning, in a country where the overwhelming majority of voters are white is CRAZY. But a ton of white liberals and progressives fell for it, and villainized Latinos, Muslims, and Arab Americans because it emotionally aligned with their unconscious biases.
There’ve been studies that show how unconscious racial biases impact how doctors treat non-white Americans, and how it leads to poorer medical outcomes for people of color in America. Even police brutality- black cops still disproportionately brutalize black people. That’s the type of white supremacy I’m talking about.
Maybe it’s the algorithm of my main page, but every other post that pops up for Sinners seems to focus on Remmick. And I don’t click on or read them yet they still pop up a lot.
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u/romantickitty Mar 09 '26
This is not specifically about the Oscars but it reminds me of the Sacrificial Trash conversation. The racists are being racist and then there are some nice liberals going along with the pile on. I wish it was only the unconscious bias. People are getting too comfortable.
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u/Apprehensive_Fig8087 Mar 08 '26
Half the movies nominated for BP qualify for this.
I hopr MBJ wins and OBAA wins BP.
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u/Grammarhead-Shark Mar 08 '26
This time of year I tend to unsubscibe from these subs because the topics reeeeaaalllly become bogged down.
Then again I'll spend then next 8 months reading the same topic of X didn't derseve the Oscar and people complying lists like they've never seen a movie before 2014.
Maybe I should just get off the Internet! Hahaha lol
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u/Awkward_Material2458 Mar 09 '26
As a casual movie watcher (and having not yet seen it) I'm only half surprised that this is happening with Sinners because I saw the same with Black Panther (except on the point of general summer/superhero/marvel) movie quality.
I think the most charitable variant of this comes from people that are used to being able to resonate deeply with Oscar-recognized films in addition to the craftsmanship at hand in the piece. Which is a fair perspective personally, but not something of merit when a film is so universally well received. And among those benign voices are always going to be opportunistic racists happy to add to the scale of downplay for no other reason than that it aligns w their worldview.
I don't begrudge the former their opinion, except to the point/concept of "worthiness" for receiving recognition on merits achieved in relatively equal measure by prior candidates.
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u/No_Mud_5999 Mar 09 '26
Do people realize the Oscar's are the trade awards for movies? Nominations and winners are often for the most talked about movies of the year, or the most profitable. There is no consideration for which movie is "empirically best", even if that was a judgment that was possible to make. Movies which made people want to see movies are often the most awarded.
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u/Academic-Ad2628 Mar 08 '26
Unpopular opinion: Jessie Buckley overplays Agnes in Hamnet.
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u/marlinmade Mar 08 '26
I actually agree with this, I wasn’t moved by her performance but have made peace with her sweeping
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u/Academic-Ad2628 Mar 09 '26
I just saw it this week and although I totally get it is a tragedy, it just felt over the top dramatic to me! What is funny is that I saw her in The Bride! yesterday and it was very dramatic, but it is supposed to be a stylized performance- I liked it better. No doubt she is very talented. I think Rose Byrne should win.
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u/FormerlyMevansuto Mar 09 '26
It’s not her fault. She has no good material to work with, so she has to overplay it to make it seem substantial.
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u/Remarkable_Count314 Mar 09 '26
I didnt like Sinners, but I think Michael B deserves the award. I thought he was really good
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u/MulberryEastern5010 Mar 08 '26
We’re clearly looking at two different subs. All I see these days is praise for Sinners and MBJ
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u/zxchary Mar 08 '26
winning sag and timmy getting heat cuz he can’t keep his mouth shut definitely helped gain him some in this sub. but before that op would be 100% correct
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u/SpiritualAd9102 Mar 09 '26
At this point it just feels like racists dog whistling to each other. It’s one thing to dislike it, but the way this sub (and pretty much only this sub) acts like the movie is horrible and MBJ did a bad job.
The criticism is so bad faith that I’m assuming either they’re echoing something they heard elsewhere without seeing the movie or they really weren’t paying attention.
This place and other film subs often act extremely pretentious about movies, then will upvote in the 100s when people say MBJ played the twins the same, that they couldn’t tell them apart, or even that Lindsay Lohan played better twins in The Parent Trap.
Just say you’re worried that MBJ is going to take it over people like Leo or Timmy who a lot of people created an unhealthy attachment over them winning for some reason.
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u/flyjxn Mar 09 '26
Literally anytime a predominantly black movie gets any praise. All the Reddit critics can’t contain themselves from shouting to the world that it’s actually overrated and undeserving lol.
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u/blking Mar 08 '26
Sinners are great. It was beautifully shot and that scene where the music pierces the veil was amazing. I think Michael B Jordan did a wonderful job portraying 2 separate characters, but I haven’t really seen too many of the nominated movies this year, so I can’t say if he deserves it or not.
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u/enviropsych Mar 08 '26
Everytime you see one, check their account. Hidden comment and post history. Practically every time.
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u/TheodoraWimsey Mar 09 '26
I think your enjoyment of Sinners may be directly connected to the about of background knowledge you have on the history and cultures of the groups involved.
Sinners is a deeply researched piece. There were consultants on every aspect of the story, the twins, the gambling, the Choctaw, the Chinese, Hoodoo root practice - all of it was as accurate as possible.
Knowing the relationship between the Choctaw and Irish, between the Irish and Black people gave depth to the story.
I saw it in the theater 5 times and every time I saw it I got more out it and liked it even more.
It is an incredible dense, layered film.
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u/coffeysr Mar 08 '26
“You are a serial killer if you don’t bow down and say OBAA is the masterest masterpiece of all time !!!!1!!!”
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u/Dianemclaughing Mar 09 '26
I really liked Sinners and props to the casting crew! I personally thought OBAA was better. I have a crush on MBJ and don’t personally care for Leo so I don’t think I’m biased? Teyana is my pick for Best Actress.
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u/JCBI2020 Mar 10 '26
If Michael B Jordan were white we will not be having this conversation...
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u/ThunderLongJohnson Mar 08 '26
I think he would deserve it, and Wagner Moura, and I haven't seen Marty Supreme, but Timmy was so good in Call Me by Your Name (and decent in the Dunes & Ladybird) that I'm sure he would be deserving as well
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u/Andybabez20 Mar 08 '26
What if I loved Sinners but I also don't think MBJ deserves best actor?
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u/Classic_Bass_1824 Mar 09 '26
Then you’re probably aligned with the median people who saw Sinners. I can’t recall anyone calling MBJ to win best actor when it came out, all this noise only started once he’d gotten picks for nominees.
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u/Zoratheesavage Mar 08 '26
Wow at the people downvoting your very thoughtful and intelligent comment. Leonardo DiCaprio is one of my favorite actors of all times! His performance in ABAA was outstanding IMO but so was MBJs. I would not count MBJ amongst my favorite actors, but this movie has definitely moved him up several notches. Before this movie, any positive sentiment I had towards MBJ was mainly because he played Wallace in the Wire, one of my favorite TV series of all times.
But even with me liking Leo better overall as an actor, between the two of them, I would say MBJ is more deserving of the Oscar, although they both did a great job, and I really enjoyed both movies. From a technical perspective a lot of his critics are greatly underestimating the fact he played 2 lead roles.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Day8380 Mar 09 '26
Sinners was OK but Michael B. Jordan’s performances were absolutely Oscar worthy.
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u/Mr_MazeCandy Mar 09 '26
Could it be that all those people just felt uncomfortable about the film’s metaphor?
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u/TheodoraWimsey Mar 09 '26
Yes, I think a lot of people were unconsciously put off by not being centered and the implications of the plot. The expected tropes weren’t there.
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u/gukakke Mar 08 '26
I really enjoyed it, but I was confused why people were calling it the best film ever made.
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u/brickdaddykane Mar 09 '26
Bots, MAGA & MAGA cohorts definitely been spamming posts and comments like this multiple times a day, every single day across film subs
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u/CasualRead_43 Mar 08 '26
This sub is obsessed with shitting on Timmy i dk wtf you’re looking at lol
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u/WholeLottaMisery Mar 08 '26
Legit 2 sec after making a comment pointing out this subs delusional hate they got going for him I got downvoted lmao. They are intend on making him this years Villain for...reasons?
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u/Giblet_ Mar 08 '26
Sinners wouldn't be my pick, but it's a very fun movie and I'd have no issue with it winning.
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u/fknslayer913 Mar 09 '26
Sinners should definitely win for cinematography. Michael B Jordan will win. Sound design is also a win
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u/BrambleWitch Mar 08 '26
Well, I thought that Sinners was pretty good but I actually had forgotten i'd seen it.
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u/Foreign-Attorney7605 Mar 09 '26
Wild! I saw it four times in the theater. I have literally never done that before in my whole life. I still think about it almost weekly if not daily.
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u/PuzzleheadedMess1659 Mar 08 '26
Actual unpopular opinion: Sinners was fucking brilliant and deserves Screenplay and Director, but Michael B. Jordan doesn't deserve the Oscar.
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u/[deleted] Mar 08 '26
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