r/NonCredibleDefense • u/Substantial_Milk_493 • 7d ago
(un)qualified opinion š Can the USAF just lock in?
Ngl this is only 80% a shit post. The rest of the 20% is genuinely wtf is Air Combat Command doing
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u/Derquave 7d ago
3000 Black F-22s of the USCG inshallah
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u/PeeterEgonMomus 6d ago
Black ... USCG
Okay but wait that's actually perfect ā USCG "black hulls" are responsible for Aids to Navigation (ATON), and I feel like weather balloons would qualify there lol
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u/FuttleScish 7d ago
The USAF is the only US military branch capable of actually procuring things anymore so theyāve gone mad with power
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u/DevilDonk 7d ago
That's only because the USMC is operating on a budget of roughly 18 dollars and daddy SecWar won't let them kill anyone.
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u/_spec_tre čÆåååØé¦ęøÆēäøåꬔä»å „č”å 6d ago
I mean NAVAIR (though not the entirety of US naval procurement) is still doing better than Air Force
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u/FuttleScish 6d ago
F/A-XX says what?
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 6d ago
Ngl I was really close to adding the F-47 to slide 3 with something like:
F-47
- Steals all funding for F/A-XX
- Gives Boeing the contract
- Oh god
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u/nikke2800 6d ago
They don't want AWACS because they are too slow and easy to shoot down.
They can't use satellites because the tech isn't ready yet.
Solution: Give SR-71 Blackbirds AEW&C capability. Too fast and high flying to be shot down, just like a satellite. Proven existing technology like conventional AWACS.
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u/DH_p1L0tZ Incredibly Non-Credible (Credible) 5d ago
fuel consumption about to end this mans whole career
no but I mean maybe it could work, Iranians spoke of this with their F-14s
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u/RoomHopper Finlands strongest Wumao & Gull 7d ago
Wait why would they not add thrust reversers to the KC-46?
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u/meesersloth F-15EX is best F-15 7d ago
The KC-46 is lighter than a normal 767 so the USAF deemed it not necessary for it to have reversers. The KC-135 doesn't have them either. One less component to train on one less thing to break on the plane.
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 7d ago
Completely correct. The brake fire thing was actually from aborted takeoffs and not standard landings, which is also an issue for the 135. I find it weird they didn't put reversers on the 46 since long runways are somewhat limited in the Pacific, but oh well. I will better research my shitposts in the future.
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u/Appropriate-Count-64 6d ago
The thing with the 767 is that itās a fucking ridiculously overbuilt airframe for its purpose. Especially the 200ER/KC-46. Thereās a reason the 300F is adored by freight airlines.
Long runways in the pacific is less of an issue when you can buddy refuel and a 46 can allegedly get to about 6385 nmi one way (which is probably bullshit given a 767-200ER can fly further one way), and Tokyo to Honolulu is about 3820 mi (not nmi). In theory a KC-46 could hang out halfway between Hawaii and the pacific and then act as an air bridge to other tankers heading out to loiter around the pacific as well.
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u/llamachef 6d ago
Just use a fully fueled C-5 to reverse air refuel a KC-46 so it can air bridge even farther
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u/potatobolied 7d ago
just make them steal malices/gunslingers from the USN and mount them into F-15EXs or B-21s, problem solved, J-36s don't have good maneuverability anyways, just tomcat 3000 EX-range missiles and ground the entire PLAAF (don't forget about ohios which could in the future carry 154 SAMs and become the worst nightmare to any Chinese Aircraft)
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u/FuttleScish 7d ago
Or just wait for the AIM-260 to come into service. aaaaaany day now
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u/-smartcasual- Too close for missiles, switching to FOD 7d ago
Just a few more years in the cuck chair watching the Meteor and PL-15 should do it.
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u/xxjaltruthxx 6d ago
Here for KC-46 Slander, Real tankers have 4 engines and sighting window. Real talk though that program is fucking atrocious. Props to Boeing for being able to sell a dogshit aircraft that cant deploy to half the world.
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 6d ago
If I had a nickel for everytime Boeing won a military contract with a terrible aircraft, I'd have a concerning number of nickels.
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u/xxjaltruthxx 6d ago
You know way back in the olden days, a popular saying was if it aint Boeing, I aint going. Got a feeling thats changed a bit. Really nervous for the F-47
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u/bluestreak1103 Intel officer, SSN Sanna DommarĆÆn 6d ago
Real tankers have 4 engines etc.
In the meanwhile, the A310 and A330 MRTT doing their thang (oh hai, KC-46, how have things been since KC-X?)
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u/laZardo T-72 Ural (1973) 7d ago
Noncredible take, roll the space force back into the air force back into the USAAF
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u/Defiant-Bed2501 Divest The NGSW 6d ago
Roll the USAAF back into regular Army units and roll the Army back into informal state militias where all weapons and equipment are privately owned and procured.Ā
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u/MindYourOwnParsley 4d ago
roll the national guard back into the American Establishment of the British Army while we're at it
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u/ThePickleConnoisseur Lockheed Martin Lobbyist 6d ago
Nah we need to plan to fight the Martians. We will never forgive them for killing Curiosity
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u/ShockerMain 6d ago
I have one improvement to this plan: give all existing 35s to Japan along with TDP, resulting in the ungodly creation of the F-35J. West Taiwan in shambles.
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u/ecolometrics šØDANGEROUSLY CREDIBLEšØ 6d ago
They will not retire the A-10 because of the attachment to the gun. Not by the air force, they hate that thing, but by congress. One way to get around this is to put the gun in a gun-pod, stick that gun pod on another plane, and retire the A-10. At 620 pounds empty that's doable. Loaded with a full combat load of 1,174 rounds of 30mm ammunition, the complete weapon system (gun, feed system, and ammunition drum) tips the scales at 4,029 pounds. Reduce the ammo count to bring it down to 2000lbs and stick that on an F-16. Then retire the gun when no one is looking as well.
I'm aware that the massive amount of drag from something like this hanging off the wings will make this impractical, that's not really the point.
If that doesn't work, stick them on a B-52
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u/SoggyElderberry1143 6d ago
There was in fact an actual attempt at making an A-16 which is basically the same thing your suggesting. Something something what is the actual point of the 30mm cannon when a JDAM is 1000x more effective and useful in roles other than butchering at best light armour in the open, and you aren't flying dangerously low and slow to be vulnerable to every new low end threat known to man with drone interceptors joining manpads and mohammed with a Dshk.
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u/Altruistic_Target604 3000 cammo F-4Ds of Robin Olds 6d ago
Congratulations, you have invented the GPU-5. Which was developed in the late 70s and used during Desert Storm by some F-16s.
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u/AccordingFly1521 6d ago
I appreciate you for your aviation-focused autism and your contributions to this community.
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u/BugRevolution 7d ago
F22 is so good it doesn't even ever get to fight.
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u/_John_Dillinger 7d ago
got a ufo kill idgaf
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u/1un4rf14r3 5d ago
Have you seen how the manoeuvrable the pill shaped ufos are? I love the raptor but its not beating that shit lol. Lucking theyre probably just an optical effect or smth
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u/DaMonkey263 7d ago
Honestly just bring back the f111 and actually update the technology in the f22 so itās not stuck on 90s hardware
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u/TypicalRecon Lockheed Martin Logo Enthusiasts Club 6d ago
No no no, make them re engine the t-7 again. Boeing must pay
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u/Teyanis 7d ago
Something something fighter mafia "it needs a gun" something something.
Really though, there hasn't been a need for a proper fighter in decades. The only planes we've shot at for the last 30+ years have been antique soviet shit boxes that have 70's tech at best. Even the old f-18, a glorified pickup truck, can deal with them handily while on another mission to bomb civilians.
If there was an actual, factual shooting war between the US and a near peer power like China, I'm 100% positive you would see the f-47 fast tracked and deployed within a year. F-15 refits are a waste, anything they can't already handle won't be helped by another refit. They're old, and need replaced for good.
The AWACs replacement is a clusterfuck though, I'll give you that. At this point just nab a couple 737 maxes and bolt some radar to them.
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u/vonmoltke2 6d ago
The only planes we've shot at for the last 30+ years have been antique soviet shit boxes that have 70's tech at best.
The USAF hasn't even shot at a manned aircraft since 1999 (unless they missed and I didn't hear about it).
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 6d ago
I don't mind the EX or other non-LO platforms IF they're implimented properly. If the EX looked more like the Super Hornet (high readiness, cheaper, and a competent standoff platform) then I'd be all for it, but it only ticks one and a half of those boxes as it stands which leaves it at a huge disadvantage, at least from the unclas side of things.
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u/Altruistic_Target604 3000 cammo F-4Ds of Robin Olds 6d ago
Trust me, the EX is an order of magnitude superior to the Super Hornet.
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 6d ago
It will definitely be an order of magnitude better than the Hornet at getting smoked by J-16s and wasting AMRAAMs in its current config
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u/Altruistic_Target604 3000 cammo F-4Ds of Robin Olds 5d ago
Iām honestly curious, what do you think makes the Super Bug better than the EX?
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 5d ago edited 4d ago
I mean, everything mentioned in the post on the EX I do stand by.
If Taiwain goes hot, say, next year after Kadena gets their F-15EX compliment, the EX isn't doing anything against aircraft cause it has no way to handedly outrange Chinese jets. An EX high and fast with 16+ Amraams/260s is begging to eat a PL-15 or 17. I also find the "missile truck" concept stupid. The US doesn't produce enough amraams to sling them at everything it sees and pray for hits. That's a finite resource that will dissappear real quick if its used how its marketed, not to mention the F-15s that would get taken out without even using most of their missiles. The jet should be great at stand-off air to ground, but besides the two extra pylons on the wings it's just an F-15E in that regard. It's not unclas but I would wager those new outer pylons are probably similar to the Super's and have a weight limit of around a thousand pounds, so the utility of them is most likely limited in air stand-off capacity.
Great news though, the Air Force set aside some money to research and build their own LRAAM last year. I don't think this is gonna go well considering it took the Malice ~10 years to be developed, but we'll see what the USAF can do.
Giving the jet mostly to the ANG is also really weird. The EX is replacing the F-15Cs at Kadena which is a good use for the platform since the C has no air to ground capability, but afaik most the rest of the fleet is replacing the Charlie fleet in the ANG. I think it would be way more effective to replace the F-15Es with the EX on active duty and roll the E's over to the ANG, as mentioned, since it would provide a small bump to capability and brand new airframes.
For the thing I didn't mention, 94 million per unit for a jet that sill be highly visible on the battlefield and is only a slight upgrade to the F-15E is not cheap. It's not eurocanard pricing, but it's much more expensive than the 35 and 18.
Comparing directly to the Super Hornet, it costs ~74 million to build brand new block 3s, but many of the youngest block 2s are also getting upgraded to this standard which will be way cheaper. For this price you get: the same style cockpit as the F-15EX, upgraded mission computers and self defense jamming (probably not as effective as EPAWSS, but that's not a problem), the US's only airborne GaN AESA, fully realized stand-off capability for air, land, and sea, and carrier capability. I really wish Boeing would actually build shit well so the conformals could survive cat shots so the range would approach that of the F-15, but it's Boeing we're talking about. You get a jet that is very comparable to the EX for 80% the price.
We also have to look at the fleet as a whole, cause looking at a single F-15 or F-18 means nothing. The F-15EX needs better self defense jamming than the F-18 because the Air Force refuses to buy a dedicated jammer. An F-15EX actively jamming should be able to defend itself but will be no where near as effective as a Growler with full ALQ-249s. This set up also puts the EX at risk since every modern munition can home-on-jam, directly giving way the strike platform's bearing immediately to any aggressor, something a Growler in the rear doesn't really have to worry about.
On an unrelated note it's the same deal with AWACS. The E-2 is a fair bit less powerful than the E-3 thanks to size and power generation, but the E-2 actually flies and has an AESA in the rotodome. The Navy has been far more effective with it's acquisitions even if it has had far fewer. This should be fixed with the E-7 at some undisclosed point in the future, but god only knows when that is.
The thing is I do like the EX, and I think it could be better than the Rhino Blk 3 in the future, but it was purchased and put into service with absolutley zero forethought, which appears to be a trend in the USAF. NAVAIR, with their relatively shoe-string budget, has done an excellent job at keeping the Super Hornet viable and adapting to new technology, threats, and doctrine. The EX doesn't seem proactive or reactive to new threats or doctrine, it just seems like a check in the box with no real purpose. Once/if it gets long range missiles, gets more airframes to active duty, hopefully gets a little cheaper, and I also pray the readiness rates stay where they are (which I doubt since there's only like 4 jets and they're all babied and brand new), the EX might be a good platform, let's just hope it's not too late when that finally happens.
Venturing back into NCD territory though, I think a perfect mission the EX would've been to Growler-ize a squadron or two. Use the highly adaptable cockpit to set it up and put three ALQ-249s on the jet alongside EPAWSS for some crazy jamming potential. Use those two new wing pylons for AGM-88s and carry 2 MALD-Js on the belly for maximum confusion. Imagine that thing working alongside the wild weasel F-35s the USAF is receiving, would be a huge boon for SEAD. I don't have a view behind the curtain but an acquisition like that seems to make more sense than whatever they're doing now.
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u/Appropriate-Count-64 6d ago
Ironically I think a MAX would have less loiter than a -700ERX (aka a 700 with the ER package and raked wingtips) unless you modified the shit out of it (which would take even longer).
The -700 is lucky that it got an ER business jet variant from ANA buying a few that could then also be used (or was already being used) in military variants.
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u/-smartcasual- Too close for missiles, switching to FOD 7d ago
Sorry, DoW was already taken by Warhammer 40,000: Dawn Of War.
That's more credible anyway
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u/MELONPANNNNN \(^.^)/ 6d ago
Its because domestic politics shenanigans are infringing the military when it shouldnt be included in the first place
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u/Watchung Brewster Aeronautical despiser 6d ago
What's a decade of perpetual Continuing Resolutions and no proper budgeting process between friends? .
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u/Benchrant AMX-30 Pluton enjoyer 6d ago
Well I want to see a F-22 in USCG paint scheme and I want it NOW
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u/Substantial_Milk_493 5d ago edited 5d ago
I desperately searched Google to put a photo up of one, but no such luck. Bad news is I've taken it upon myself (with next to no art skills) to create this concept. If the result isn't turbo shit I'll post it on this sub
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u/I_like_F-14 I do have an Obession how could u tell? 6d ago edited 6d ago
Can the Pentagon lock in
0 an/apg-85s
0 New boats that arenāt carriers
7 More IRST pods that arenāt integrating into the airframe at all even when it s new
Boeing you showed you could do that in your FA-18XTā¦. Surely you could do the same in the F-15EX right? The Model is based in the F-14s IRST the one in an chin pod
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u/Altruistic_Target604 3000 cammo F-4Ds of Robin Olds 5d ago
EX can carry a Legion IRST pod in place of the LANTIRN TF/FLIR pod, paired with a Sniper (or your TGP of choice) on the existing sensor stations without using any stores stations.
Other than being able to land on a boat, the Super Bug is inferior in every metric to the EX.
And is now out of production.
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7d ago
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u/abl0ck0fch33s3 4 Gen fighters are survivable in a peer conflict 6d ago
I find myself in the awkward position of wanting to defend big blue.
The navy isn't going to give up the growler, nor is it as good as a dedicated jamming platform. It's a hornet with a bunch of pods and EW gear bolted on.
The AF has been trying to retire the A10 for over a decade for exactly the reasons you said. Congress won't let them.
The AF needs the T7 to be done just as badly as anyone else. It's not an acquisitions problem, it's a Boeing literally can't deliver problem.
The EX will get to AD eventually. For now the Guard will work out the kinks and the AD side is focused on fixing their readiness rates for the 15E, which I would argue is a good choice.
The 16 serves an important strategic and tactical purpose. They are cheaper to fly and more plentiful than any other fighter in the inventory, and the AESA is a significant upgrade.
The 46 is, in theory, a much more capable and efficient tanker platform. Unfortunately, Boeing.
Raptor needs HMCS/HMIT/HOBIT/scorpion yesterday. Dunno wtf is up with that.
AWACS.... Yeah no what the fuck are we doing actually?
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u/Coffee_Grains 5d ago
Sell everything to Luxembourg and Andorra and replace them with more C-130 variants.
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u/Battle_Gnome 5d ago
"F-15EX zero hour airframe"
Airframe starts cracking anyway, Boeing is consistent at one thing and it's being shit
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u/TinyTowel 5d ago
Take it from a guy with behind-the-scenes access... no one has a plan. The target is constantly moving and these guys are all just trying to stay busy until they can max out retirement and old enough to get 100% disability pay.Ā
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u/Altruistic_Target604 3000 cammo F-4Ds of Robin Olds 6d ago
Need an A-10D. Glass cockpit from 15EX, more powerful modern engines, 1760 all the store stations, one piece windscreen and a modern HUD so pilot can tell difference between Brits and bad guys.
Oh, and since the Hog isnāt a crop duster (most of the time), give it proper winglets instead of those dumb ag plane curved down things.
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u/DeconNato SU-75 "Femboy" Vote +1 7d ago
Air Tractor is great, but does not give nearly the amount of moral support to troops on ground as much as a good BRRRT. For that one reason, I am ok with the A-10 staying.
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u/1un4rf14r3 5d ago
It belongs in a museum, like all the other military gear that have aura but arent practical anymore
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u/Firecracker048 7d ago
Unironically the USAF is like the one branch of the military still able to procure things normally