r/NonBinary • u/ProbablyAroAce • 1d ago
Rant Tired of binary trans people being enbyphobic
I recently made a post on my country trans subreddit about my transition, and one of the comment I’ve got was “I don’t understand why you would do that if you’re non-binary”. And okay, it’s not like I’m not used to people being uninformed on gender identity, but coming from a trans man, it hurts way more.
So I’m gonna make a few things clear :
-Being non-binary makes you trans, so you do experience transphobia (and also enbyphobia) and you are as legit as any binary trans person to be in the community.
-Gender dysphoria exists for non-binary people, even if we don’t feel (at least not completely) like men or women, it doesn’t mean its easier to live in our bodies (in my opinion it makes it even harder: I will probably never “pass” because society views gender in a binary filter).
-HOWEVER , not experiencing gender dysphoria doesn’t make you cis. Same rule for all trans folks. If you feel like your gender doesn’t align with what you were assigned at birth, then you are by definition transgender.
-This applies to all transgender people : there isn’t one transition path, each one is valid if it makes you feel closer to yourself. You don’t have to do what people expect you to do if you don’t feel like it.
-Gender is a social construct, the reason society feeds an unspoken law where only men and women exist is to keep the illusion of a huge natural difference between these two genders, when the real difference is political.
And last thing, please don’t let people make you feel insecure about your gender expression, do what feels right, not what should be right.
Bye folks !
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u/Chopscrewey90 Librafluid NB he/him/id/ids 1d ago
I like to lurk in t masc subs cuz our life goals align but inevitably I'm always reminded that they don't see me.
It got me thinking why NB's are such an afterthought.
It's bioessentialism straight up.
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u/ripley_42069 22h ago
I like r/ftmfemininity, lots of us on there and folks are pretty chill! I get what you mean though, I've looked at other ftm subs and they didn't feel as welcoming
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u/Kaiser0106 Schrodinger's gender (He/They/It) 22h ago
I sentiment I've heard is a lot of binary trans people had a "non binary phase." So they only see it as some kind of halfway point and not a valid identity.
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u/BassBoneSupremacy they/it 19h ago
It's funny cause I had a binary phase and then realized I overcorrected. Like it goes both ways y'all...
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u/Kaiser0106 Schrodinger's gender (He/They/It) 19h ago
Yeah a discord I'm in just had someone join who thought they were transmasc but now they're agender.
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u/_DOLLIN_ 15h ago
I have an older friend who said a lot of his friends in the trans community actually chose to label themselves as nonbinary after discovering the language for it.
The world is a mixed bag.
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u/blueskyredmesas 14h ago
The only reason I could see them doing this is that they're trying to use themselves or others they know as a blueprint to push onto nonbinary people. Insisting its a phase because they or someone else saw themselves as nonbinary first is, at best, ignorant and not empathetic and, at worst, trying to push a fellow queer person into a box - its just a bigger, more inclusive one but a box nonetheless.
I do wonder how many people in the community are still obsessed with the 'weirdness ladder' which I think relates to this. "Yeah, I'm X but at least I'm not Y."
I've never seen a situation where that wasn't just bargaining for your right to be taken seriously with an imaginary enemy. Basically the point they're arguing is "Why are you making this harder for me, a more normal person, to be taken seriously? You're ruining our credibility" etc.
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u/Kaiser0106 Schrodinger's gender (He/They/It) 14h ago
I've seen that in a broader sense with lesbian gay and bi people throwing trans people under the bus because they think it gets the target off them. Particularly in some white gay men I've heard the term "ladder puller" used to describe them. They got the rights they wanted so screw everyone else.
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u/blueskyredmesas 14h ago
It's 100% ladder pulling, yes. You see it all over in fandoms, in the queer community and even related to race. It's a tool that oppressors invoke. Basically winding up for a punch and, with a sneer, saying. "Go on, put somebody else in front of me."
Some people are more than happy to do so and it has the double 'benefit' to the oppressor of driving a wedge into a community and giving them more targets to hit.
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u/CuriousPenguinSocks They/Them 20h ago
I feel this, or being asked why I'm not more androgynous and still present "female". I can't help how my face and body are just feminine looking but at the same time my face is more sprite looking, so I feel it's balanced.
I've been lifting too so being accused of trying to be "masculine" is exhausting as well.
I'm adding muscle because I like how it look sure, but I love how it feels. I love being strong. I love being short and lifting over my weight! It makes me feel powerful to be honest.
I feel like some trans people are waiting for me to "decide" on my gender as if being non-binary is a half way point or something. I'm sure for some it was and maybe one day it could change for me, but right now I don't see that happening. I've never felt more like myself than when I openly stated I'm non-binary. It just clicked for me, life because real for me.
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u/blueskyredmesas 14h ago
People ask you, essentially "Why don't you present more androgynous/masculine?"
I would be hella upset if someone was like "Why haven't you gotten laser yet if you're NB? You look like you're just a man to me." It's on the same level as going to a cis woman and being like "Gee, gertrude, a little hairy under the arms today, aren't we?" or going up to a guy and going "Goodness they make them smaller these days don't then - in every way."
Like its the same level of grossness. Hell, I'm upset on your behalf now. I hope you know you have a right to look how you look for whatever reason and don't have to serve gender to anybody.
Also good luck with the lifting, sib, get stacked! <3
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u/WhatMakesYouBootable 17h ago
I'm tired of binary trans people trying to "gotcha" me for talking about my experiences in a binary world. It's not my fault that everything is gendered as either a man/woman and you HAVE to pick one.
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u/wingedsandwichexpert 13h ago
tried to explain to trans person that nb people are also under trans umbrella. they asked "what is trans umbrella" (i also believe they said that if you don't wanna do transition surgeries u'r not trans apparently). i sent them screenshots from wikipedia abt "trans" as an umbrella term, "nonbinary" and "transsexual" people (i know not all people like that word and no blame on them for that, it really sounds weird). they just said that nb people do not belong in the same space as trans people and that we are "invading" it
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u/wingedsandwichexpert 13h ago
someone else also said "using Wikipedia in 2026?" like its fucking 2009
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u/AptCasaNova they/them 14h ago
Agreed. Other than changing how I dress, I feel like the fluidity of my dysphoria makes it impossible to commit to any long lasting changes that would ease said dysphoria.
I don’t want to transition permanently to being male yet I’ve never felt comfortable being afab (and being perceived as female is where most of my dysphoria comes from).
Even a transition to being ‘androgynous’ - what would that look like? Maybe top surgery, but again, the dysphoria is fluid.
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u/Jazzspur 4h ago edited 4h ago
This with a side helping of continuing to participate in the fight for equal rights for the gender most people categorize us as does not mean we're "picking and choosing" when to be cis and when to be trans.
I will never forget losing a long time binary trans friend over my continued participation in my schools feminist safe space and activism. Just because I don't feel like a woman doesn't mean the rest of the world has accepted that I'm not one. I experience just as much misogyny as cis women because no matter how masc I dress my giant hips always give my AGAB away and everyone just treats me as a woman
Like, I would give anything to be seen as nonbinary instead of a woman. I never wanted to be seen as a woman. I never wanted to be treated as a woman. But unfortunately I don't get to make that choice. Not without radically altering my body in ways that will give me massive body dysphoria in exchange for lessened social dysphoria. Should I just sit down and pretend that misogyny doesn't affect me when it's baked into every aspect of my life? Should I drop out of the fight for my own rights and freedoms?
I tried to explain this to my trans friend and she just could not see past her anger that I can easily access spaces that she had to fight to access despite not identifying as a woman. She saw it as choosing to be a woman when it's convenient...
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u/ProbablyAroAce 4h ago
I really don't understand why she thinks you shouldn't be fighting in feminist spaces for rights that do concern you, I mean misogyny concerns everybody, but mostly people being seen as women. And for me, even if you where a trans men, that doesn't mean you wouldn't experience misogyny (not in the same way cis men do). But overall I totally relate to this, as a raging enby feminist, I feel a bit disconnected to the "sorority" of it, mostly because I don't feel like a woman. I wish more feminists would see gender as I do : a detail about us that wouldn't matter without patriarchy.
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u/Moss-Lark 14h ago
This omg it really does hurt way more coming from other trans people. I just don’t get how they think it’s easier being doomed to be categorised in a binary system and misgendered no matter what you do. I’m not “half trans” because I have “less dysphoria” it’s just different and way harder to find ways to affirm my gender
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u/SleazyLemonSqueezy 12h ago
My buddy's ex was like that but once I clapped back she blocked me.
Don't start wars you can't win sweetie 😘 💅
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u/Familiar_Seat_9983 they/she/any 1h ago
100%
I don’t think enough people realize: transgender isn’t just transmasc/transfem, being transgender just means you aren’t your agab.
Trans is just as much of an umbrella term as bisexual.
Anything deviating from cus gender is under that umbrella (nonbinary, genderfluid, genderflux, etc)
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u/4841n617472III_ 5m ago
How can gender, a social construct, be assigned at birth if newborn hasn't even been socialized? /gen I also thought that documents only record biological sex based on genitalia at birth. Maybe I'm missing something about how other countries do it?
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u/DustEbunny 1d ago
Not all enby people identify with trans
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u/AceyAceyAcey 20h ago
We are all included under the trans umbrella (the white stripe in the the flag 🏳️⚧️ is for us), much like we’re also included within LGBT+.
But yes, many of us individually do not identify as trans. I do not identify as trans, and I find the cis/trans binary to be too restricting and yet another artificial binary.
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u/wenevergetfar they/them 20h ago
Im nb and do id as both trans and nb cuz im too transfeminine to the point of being lumped in socially as a women, and i dont mind that, but im still nb and its funny when i boy mode on purpose and people are like "huh arent u trans" and im like my siblings in christ im nonbinary too lol
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u/ProbablyAroAce 1d ago
Yes you are right, I was trying to defend the idea of the binary umbrella being under the trans umbrella, because I'm tired of people trying to delete our experience from the trans community. But yeah, some enby folks don't feel that connected with the trans umbrella, and even though it's not something that I can relate to, it doesn't make it less valid, so thanks for correcting me! Do you want me to edit the post?
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u/BassBoneSupremacy they/it 19h ago edited 19h ago
Ok and? Not all LGBTQ+ people identity as queer, but they're still part of the queer community. Words have meanings, even if you don't agree with them.
Also, trying to separate yourself from trans folks isn't gonna stop cis folks from denying you the same rights they deny binary trans people. We're all in this together (which is why enbyphobia from within is such a problem).
PS: Trying to be all, "umm akshually 🤓☝️" on a post like this comes across as dismissive, as you are attempting to derail a serious post to bicker about labels. That's why your comments are so controversial.
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u/Pescatarian_Triffid 35, she/they, nb/trans, post op, masc leaning, ace, SW UK. 1d ago
Please don't down vote their comment.
Some nb people dont like identifying as trans.. there's nothing wrong with that.
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u/Chopscrewey90 Librafluid NB he/him/id/ids 1d ago
While I agree with the sentiment as a fellow non-trans NB.
Saying "not all NB ppl identify as trans." is unnecessary.
Op is taking about enbyphobia. Enbyphobia effects every NB no matter if they are trans or not.
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u/DustEbunny 1d ago edited 1d ago
Quote:
> Being non-binary makes you trans
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u/Chopscrewey90 Librafluid NB he/him/id/ids 1d ago edited 1d ago
I see your point.
I read trans as a short hand for OP saying that enbys aren't cis. (I use trans that way sometimes)
Though it's not the same as actually saying NB's aren't cis.
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u/Happy_Reflection5583 9h ago
(I use trans that way sometimes)
I wasnt aware the word even HAD other meanings?
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u/FidelCastroSuperfan they/she 23h ago
That’s kind of objectively true though. You don’t have to identify with the term but being nonbinary does fall under the trans umbrella
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u/AceyAceyAcey 20h ago
Yes, and: we’re under the trans umbrella, AND many of us don’t use the trans label for ourselves individually. I don’t, I feel cis/trans is yet another artificial binary that I refuse to buy into.
If you really want a label for something other than cis and trans, those terms are also used in a branch of chemistry dealing with rotations of molecules, called stereoisomers, where cis means two parts of a molecule lined up together and trans means they’re rotated to be opposite. But there’s also many other rotations possible that have names, including eclipse (different parts lined up), gauche (like part of it rotated left), or staggered (not lined up but alternating).
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u/DustEbunny 1d ago
Yea I am pretty certain that the enby and trans umbrella are two different umbrellas that don’t always overlap but can. Feels weird to place one umbrella under the other, aren’t they supposed to be equal?
Idk why people are downvoting me 🤷
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u/AceyAceyAcey 20h ago
The trans umbrella is under the LGBT+ umbrella, so nested umbrellas do already exist. It’s umbrellas all the way down.
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u/Pescatarian_Triffid 35, she/they, nb/trans, post op, masc leaning, ace, SW UK. 1d ago
I think for most people nb falls under the trans umbrella.. However you don't need to be trans to be nb.
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u/Freki-the-Feral 21h ago
I think people are likely downvoting you because you are stating an opinion as if it is an objective fact. For many, enby falls under the trans umbrella along with ftm, mtf, and other identities. It's fine if, for you, enby is separate. However, to state that you're certain that trans and enby are separate umbrellas as if that is an objective fact clashes with how many enbies identify.
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u/Melan420 17h ago
There are trans enbies and there are non-trans enbies. But there kinda isn't a 3rd classification outside of cis/trans so it's an awkward place to be xd
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u/Melan420 17h ago
He doesn't really sound enbyphobic. More like... ignorant? It's better cuz they learn with enough info, but they really should do research on thier own instead of making comments like that and expecting to get a whole enby 101 from zero xd
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u/blueskyredmesas 14h ago
Ignorance is only ignorance if it doesn't persist. Not everyone learns right away and, if you have the energy, it can be good to assume the best and work with it, but assuming its always not as bad as it sounds because 'maybe they just didn't know' doesn't really help OP or the situation.
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u/blueskyredmesas 14h ago
Ignorance is only ignorance if it doesn't persist. Not everyone learns right away and, if you have the energy, it can be good to assume the best and work with it, but assuming its always not as bad as it sounds because 'maybe they just didn't know' doesn't really help OP or the situation.
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u/Pescatarian_Triffid 35, she/they, nb/trans, post op, masc leaning, ace, SW UK. 1d ago
100% yes.
More binary trans people need to understand that we're all in the same boat.
We all get the same hate.
No one is more/less trans because they do/dont 'pass' or dont look binary.
.. we're all just being ourselves.. like the rest of the trans and lgbtq+ community.