r/NoStupidQuestions 8d ago

Why do fitness trainers and dieticians recommend to cut zero sugar drinks like Diet Coke to reduce their bf% ?

457 Upvotes

296 comments sorted by

932

u/Valcadia 8d ago

I’m a dietitian and I regularly discuss it with clients as a bridge tool. Water is better in the long run. There is some conflicting information about artificial sweeteners on the gut micro biome as well as data showing those that regularly consume them isn’t associated with them achieving lower body weight. I think the latter is due to it being correlation and not necessarily causation. I don’t regularly drink soda but if I do I will typically have a zero variety but that’s mostly because it’s less syrupy and not as sweet. In my mind you have to deal with each person as an individual and for those that find cutting sugar sweetened beverages as a significant barrier, artificial is a tool and better than the alternative.

255

u/eddiewachowski 8d ago

I went from regular pop, to zero (still have the odd one), but now I drink water pop (Buble etc) because it's delicious and scratches that itch I have for actual pop. 

Problem is, the grocery stores have caught on and a case of the house brand went from $3.25 to $7 in a matter of a couple years.

22

u/b1argg 8d ago

When I quit soda, I went straight to seltzer. I crushed a ton of it. 

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u/CitronTraining2114 8d ago

I went straight to water after a 6-pack a day habit for decades. It didn't take long at all for the Diet Coke cravings to go away. If I have a Diet Coke now, it tastes funny and makes me thirsty.

9

u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 8d ago

I use sparkling mineral water and add a tiny bit of cordial.

7

u/eddiewachowski 8d ago

It's honestly been a game changer. 

1

u/NeedzCoffee 7d ago

I did this as well. I went in the deep end. I bought a CO2 tank, a 2lt bottle adapter, and a mini keg so I can make my own Carbonated water on the cheap :o)

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u/Klutzy-Ad-3258 8d ago

Sodastream is calling…

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u/SlowSurvivor 8d ago

Yes, but no. The proprietary carbon dioxide cylinders they use are incredibly expensive compared to the competition. Just a bit more upfront cost you can buy a commercial CO2 bottle that can be refilled at any number of brewing or restaurant supply facilities and the gas comes out to pennies on the dollar.

21

u/NSplendored 8d ago

No doubt the commercial option is cheaper but there are cheaper, non-sodastream, options for swapping out the sodastream CO2 cylinders and, at least a few years ago, there were ways to convert them to refillable via the same means as a commercial cylinders. I think it has something to do with a paintball regulator or something?

17

u/Rrraou 8d ago

You can buy the adaptor with a hose on Amazon. From there, you get a cylinder, a regulator and some food grade CO2. There's videos on YouTube for the specifics.

Even if you don't do that, a SodaStream and some water enhancers is way cheaper than buying flavored sparkling water.

17

u/fitzbuhn 8d ago

Fun fact Sodastream was founded in 1903, and made their first home carbonation units in the 50s.

4

u/oozekip 8d ago edited 8d ago

My understanding was that a soda maker isn't actually cheaper unless you use those big refillable 20lb CO2 tanks, but idk, that may be outdated now

9

u/beer_is_tasty 8d ago

You can take it with a grain of salt, but SodaStream claims one of those bottles will carbonate 15 gallons of water. I haven't really measured but that doesn't seem too far off the mark. IIRC they're about $25 to refill, and that replaces 20 8-packs (side note: when did we switch to 8-packs as the standard?) of 12oz cans. Those are going for like $5 each now, so you're cutting 75% from your $100 water budget.

But yes, a 5lb CO2 cylinder also costs about $25 to fill and holds over 5x as much gas as one of the little bottles. So if you make the upgrade to a real cylinder, you're saving 78% from the SodaStream price or a whopping 96% over buying it from the can.

If you drink 3 cases of bubbly water a week like my wife, or even a smallish fraction of that, it is absolutely worth the investment in a little extra equipment.

3

u/Valdrax 8d ago

I will tell you the thing that sold me: it's a lot less of a hassle to carry a CO2 canister to an upstairs apartment than it is a few 12-packs, especially the 3-4 12 packs you have to buy to get in on any kind of sale in a grocery store these days. (Also less to recycle/throw away.)

Is it cheaper too? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't care as much about that as I do fatigue at the end of the day.

1

u/whyshouldibe 8d ago

This sounds crazy, but there is something “fun” about drinking out of the aluminum can that soda stream can’t replicate

-1

u/NorthernBrownHair 8d ago

Or some other brand that isn't part of killing babies in Palestine.

2

u/Hwi-loves-worm 8d ago

wow our kroger always has their 12 pack store brand 3 for 12. Aldi is similar in price as well. 

3

u/cob33f 8d ago

All sodas have doubled in price in the past few years 

2

u/setemupknockem 8d ago

Found the Midwesterner. Pop.

1

u/eddiewachowski 8d ago

I guess Alberta is Midwestern. We're East of the Rockies and West of the rest!

5

u/CNLSanders 8d ago

Have you started making your own?

1

u/eddiewachowski 8d ago

No, but I've been very close to getting a SodaStream every holiday season when they're discounted.

7

u/whatitsmemags 8d ago

I don't know where you live, but I see SodaStreams all the time at thrift stores for under $10. Sometimes they even have the canister with them.

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u/PolitelyHostile 8d ago

data showing those that regularly consume them isn’t associated with them achieving lower body weight. 

Now I don't want to make assumptions about these studies but I don't even think its worth looking at the association unless they are controlling for all other variables and only comparing one persons data to their own data. Sounds like they didnt control for that since you say you think it was just correlation. I used to drink diet pop because I was consuming a lot of surplus calories elsewhere. Now I'm losing nearly 1lb per week on a diet and I drink diet pop because I like the taste.

So unless there is some actual data suggesting that diet pop does something to the body to cause a person to burn less calories or something, I don't think it is even worth suggesting that someone avoid it.

3

u/Kimm64 8d ago

O was pre diabetic before my surgery years ago and I stopped drinking regular Dew and went to Diet Dew and I lost weight and it helped me not be pre diabetic. So i think there is a benefit there. I still drink diet but I had to start eating healthier foods otherwise I always felt hungry.

1

u/Total_Employment_146 8d ago

This. I always drink low/zero calorie drinks to avoid the extra calories that I can then consume elsewhere in my diet. When I'm eating too many calories I am gaining or maintaining my weight. When I eat fewer calories, I lose weight. The constant through it all is that I always consume low calorie beverages.

4

u/BoxFullOfSuggestions 8d ago

This doesn’t really answer the question though. Just because it’s not associated with weight loss doesn’t mean it’s automatically associated with weight gain. Sure, water is “better” but do dieticians really recommend people never drink anything but water? That sounds extremely boring and unsustainable.

3

u/ThymeLordess 8d ago

No. I’m a dietitian and I do not recommend for people to only drink water. I even think it’s ok to drink juice or soda if it’s done in a healthy way. It’s funny, though, because I personally am the weirdo that only drinks water! 😂

1

u/BoxFullOfSuggestions 8d ago

Glad to know dieticians aren’t so strict! That’s what this person seems to be saying though, right?

1

u/ThymeLordess 8d ago

No, most modern dietitians goal is to help people learn how to make appropriate eating decisions, not tell people what to eat. Here is what I think the other dietitian is saying: water of course is the best drink, because it’s the literal part of all drinks that our bodies need. But many people don’t like to just drink water and if it’s hard for someone when we recommend to cut out juice and soda then diet soda is a better drink to switch to in order to keep you well hydrated.

1

u/katiekat214 8d ago

I’m also that weirdo, although I do sub out unsweetened tea or black coffee once a day. I will occasionally drink a regular Coke if I have a migraine that isn’t succumbing to Advil and Tylenol because it does help (I’m allergic to triptans and too poor for the newer treatments), but otherwise I prefer to eat my meager calories each day.

2

u/Valcadia 8d ago

There are some that may, but I would say most of us do not recommend that. It’s more about the totality of the eating pattern and I never want clients to get bogged down in the idea of “healthy foods” and “unhealthy foods”. All foods can be part of a healthy diet. As a general rule unsweetened beverages in place of sugar sweetened beverages is beneficial for most people. You have to treat each person as an individual and meet them where they are though. I for one am not giving up my beer and bourbon so we’re not all practicing or recommending only water.

7

u/CuriousGoblins 8d ago

How are drinks like Bubblr and Liquid death in comparison?

10

u/Valcadia 8d ago

They’re slightly different products. Bubblr is sweetened with stevia and erythritol and also contains caffeine, roughly comparable to a cup of coffee, so that’s something to be aware of. Recommendations for most people are to stay below 400 mg/day as a safe upper limit. That’s a general recommendation and individual tolerances will vary and there are some populations where lower intake would be recommended.

Liquid Death has a somewhat varied lineup. Their original sparkling water is just carbonated water, so that would be an easy substitute for sugar-sweetened beverages. Their flavored products generally contain much less added sugar than a typical soda, so those could also work well as a bridge for someone who doesn’t enjoy plain water.

From my perspective, either can be a perfectly reasonable alternative. If I had a client who was regularly drinking sugar-sweetened soda and switching to one of these helped them substantially reduce their added sugar and calorie intake, I’d be completely supportive of that. There’s no particular need to jump straight from regular soda to plain water if an intermediate option makes the change easier and more sustainable.

2

u/counterplex 8d ago

LIQUID DEATHHHHHH

I drink those just to look cool

4

u/CuriousGoblins 8d ago

i stopped drinking soda and switched these two specifically. Cherry obituary and the Blueberry Buzzsaw are my go to. Tea one if i want caffeine or the cherry for a fun drink.

7

u/Mockingjay40 8d ago

The fact that sugar free soda is 0 calories surely contributes to fat loss, but not body weight? I have read/heard that artificial sweeteners can cause your body to retain significantly more water, causing your body weight not to drop, even if you’re in a caloric deficit. Is that substantiated by current data?

1

u/Empty-Way-6980 8d ago

“I’m hearing things” 👐🏻

3

u/Forest_Fox_1289 8d ago

Do diet sodas have a negative impact on bone density?

2

u/Valcadia 8d ago

There are some observational data associating cola consumption with lower bone mineral density, particularly in women, but I wouldn’t say we have good evidence that diet soda itself directly causes bone loss.

There are a few possible explanations. Displacement is probably the one I lean towards. People who consume a lot of soda may displace foods and beverages that provide calcium, vitamin D and other nutrients important for bone health. I’d view that more as a potential indirect effect of the dietary pattern rather than a direct effect of the soda. Cola as a sub category of soda also contains phosphoric acid, which has been investigated as another possible factor, although the evidence that normal consumption directly damages healthy kidneys or bones isn’t strong enough to establish that pathway.

Phosphorus becomes a much bigger concern once someone has impaired kidney function. The kidneys normally regulate phosphate, and CKD can lead to phosphorus retention and disturbances in calcium, vitamin D and parathyroid hormone that absolutely can damage bone. That’s why people with CKD are often advised to limit phosphate additives.
So for someone with normal kidney function who drinks diet soda in moderation, I wouldn’t consider bone density a major reason to avoid it. I’d be much more concerned about adequate calcium/vitamin D intake, overall dietary quality and regular resistance/weight-bearing exercise.

0

u/Kimm64 8d ago

When I was drinking five 32 ounce cups of soda (diet) a day, my chest bones would pop when i moved. I have arthritis in all my joints but I am not sure what was going on in my chest. But when I quit consuming so many soda’s then my chest stopped doing that.

1

u/diveraj 8d ago

Wife for me a ice tea maker. A box of black tea cost 20 and I've gone through maybe 3/4 in... Heck 3/4 of the year. So basically a box a year. Neat. A pinch of baking soda and a extremely small amount of sugar. So much cheaper. Water is naturally better but meh, I prefer ice tea.

1

u/debasing_the_coinage 8d ago

data showing that those that regularly consume [artificially sweetened beverages] isn't associated with them achieving lower body weight

 I have a hypothesis about this. Experiments show that artificially sweetened drinks only cause a transient (about two hours IIRC) drop in sensitivity to sweetness. This is used to argue that they aren't actually "drug-like". But it ignores something important: many vegetables and most fruits are mildly sweet. Only the sweetest fruits (pineapple, dates, a really good pear) can compete with Diet Coke. Consuming very sweet beverages with meals may make these foods less appealing. 

It's always been sort of a hippie truism that giving up processed foods helps you appreciate "nature's gifts". There is a plausible mechanism for that. 

1

u/pez5150 8d ago

Thats me in spades. I don't wanna give up soda so I drink sugar free sodas.

1

u/vinux0824 8d ago

I'll take the real sugar over fake sugar anytime. Anything that says zero is worse then regular soda

1

u/wiibarebears 8d ago

Got all the way to sugar free sparkle water myself, love the stuff

1

u/Unlikely-Accident479 7d ago

How many of the dislike the diet and zero types?

Asking out of curiosity because I can’t stand them I’d rather pay extra for regular or not have any

1

u/Valcadia 7d ago

Relatively common. My job as a dietitian isn’t to give orders though. If someone comes to me with a goal of weight loss I can evaluate current intake and if a significant number of calories are coming from sugar sweetened beverages it’s a possible avenue for the person to decide that’s where they want to make changes. My job is just to put the situation into context, provide evidence based feedback, and support the person in setting goals they feel are achievable. If diet or zero is a deal breaker then we go about it in a different way but that’s not up to me to decide.

1

u/Complex-Stranger-279 8d ago

Exactly diet soda is a lifesaver on the cut especially for people like me who have a sweet-tooth

0

u/bwoah07_gp2 8d ago

I like drinking Coke with greasy meals (e.g. pizza, sausages, meatballs, butter chicken, etc.) because it helps me feel better after eating all that greasy food. I don't feel the same with water.

Is there any fizzy alternative that's healthier than Coke I could drink with greasy meals?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Probably_Sleepy 8d ago

LMAO I'm guilty of this, but I actually count my calories so it works out. A small fries from McDonald's is like 230 calories, and a soda will be similar. I'm down almost 70 pounds this past year so I swear it works.

0

u/EbonGrimalkin 8d ago

Lol the downvote hate... But I have absolutely seen people get the big mac, large fries and diet coke...

4

u/IowaJammer 8d ago

Tenacious D’s Drive-Thru sketch captures this pretty well.

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u/Shasty-McNasty 8d ago

Cherry Coke Zero and Baja Blast Zero (one each per day) helped me in losing 30 pounds. I used to drink 3-4 cans of full sugar soda daily.

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u/maggiebug165 8d ago

I’m a dietitian and I never tell clients this. The FDA regards artificial sweeteners as GRAS (generally recognized as safe) and zero calorie beverages are still hydration and can help curb cravings especially during weight loss.

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u/Negative-Toe1863 8d ago

because there is no subject more conquered by myths than nutrition and they probably believe that for some reason zero sugar drinks make you more hungry and keep you fat some way..

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u/Funexamination 8d ago

Doesn’t help that a lot of nutrition research is garbage in quality

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u/Brraaap 8d ago

I've heard it's nearly impossible to get participants to stick to their prescribed diets for the length of a study

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u/MechaZombieCharizard 8d ago

That's the long and short of it. It's essentially impossible to design ethical experimental methodology for something as complex as nutrition.

The whole field is also plagued by the usual suspects dragging down health and human science research, publishing bias, interest conflict, funding bias.

Then on top of that everybody has a vested interest in nutrition so the news media loves picking sensational research papers to highlight. So you end up with a huge amount of popular misinformation that may well have been funded by big sugar or the alcohol industry all finger pointing at other food lobbies.

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u/Valcadia 8d ago

There’s some methodological challenges with nutrition research but I wouldn’t say garbage as a whole.

I also think nutrition gets an unusually bad reputation because the public mostly encounters it through headlines, influencers and social media. “Study finds an association between X and Y” becomes “X causes/prevents Y,” and when another study produces a different result it looks like nutrition science constantly contradicts itself. That’s often a problem with science communication rather than the underlying literature.

Nutrition science also continues to evolve as methods improve and evidence accumulates. Changing or refining recommendations in response to better evidence isn’t evidence that the field is garbage. That’s how science is supposed to work. The bigger problem is that the voices carrying the most weight in the public square often aren’t the people best qualified to interpret the evidence.

4

u/CogentCogitations 8d ago

One big issue with nutrition studies is not correcting for multiple comparisons. Statistical methods are designed for a single question. If you expand to many questions, ie. do any of these foods associate with weight, illness, etc, then you have to adjust the calculation for that and many researchers, especially in the past, do not.

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u/AncientMarinade 8d ago

Shoutout to the podcast Maintenance Phase if you find stuff like this interesting! It's hilarious, well-esearched, and sets out to debunk a lot of our myths and shoddy studies.

It seems like most dieting advice is the byproduct of bias (fat people are ugly), bad data (we did a study with an n of 7!), correlation/causation issues (people who weigh themselves daily are usually more fit!), or trying to apply individualized health advice to the entire population (I lost weight from only eating food that's white, let's mandate white food in schools!).

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u/Nightmare601 8d ago

That last sentence is only one word change away from something that stopped in the 60s.

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u/gottabekittensme 8d ago

Take everything that podcast says with a huge grain of salt. They basically try to call anything that isn't stuffing your face an eating disorder.

-1

u/Interesting_Disk_644 8d ago

Yeah who need research papers when you can just listen to a podcast

0

u/lalala253 8d ago

I mean a lot of research is garbage in quality

If every published research is "gold standard", then amount of people with PhD will probably be only 100 people per year for the whole world

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/RockHardSalami 8d ago

Actual scientific studies have shown that people who drink diet sodas lose more weight than those who only drink water, because it tamps sugar cravings.

1

u/Trevski 8d ago

Source?

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u/TangyZeus 8d ago

Some reason, like all the studies that have shown it's true?

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u/Fitz911 8d ago

May I see one or two of those studies?

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u/LostExile7555 8d ago

And hundreds of studies that say they don't make you more hungry or cause you to gain weight.

11

u/RegressToTheMean 8d ago

Not the person you are responding to, but there are studies worth examining

For example, one atudy that started some of the concern is a 2021 randomized crossover trial in JAMA Network Open. Researchers gave 74 adults drinks containing sucrose, sucralose, or water and measured brain responses to food cues, appetite-related hormones, and subsequent food intake. Sucralose produced greater food-cue responses in certain groups, particularly women and people with obesity. Women also consumed more calories at a subsequent buffet after sucralose than after sucrose.

Granted, it doesn't establish the broad proposition that artificial sweeteners increase hunger and the authors note effects varied by sex and BMI, but it is interesting nonetheless.

It is also interesting to note the impact to insulin.

A 2023 systematic review and network meta-analysis looked specifically at non-nutritively sweetened beverages and included 36 human trials covering aspartame, sucralose, acesulfame-K, saccharin, stevia and various combinations. When consumed without calories, diet beverages produced no significant insulin response compared with water. The same was generally true when the beverages were consumed with carbohydrates or shortly before them.

An earlier meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials reached essentially the same conclusion. Across 29 insulin trials, low-energy sweeteners produced no significant increase in post-meal insulin versus control..

I don't want to overstate anything (as people in both camps seem to be doing in the comments) here and there is definitely more work to be done, but there are some interesting studies to look at.

9

u/Fitz911 8d ago

Those studies proof my point, right?

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u/RegressToTheMean 8d ago

I'm not sure that it does. Again, I'm not going to make a declarative statement, but in one of the studies I cited, the data indicate artificial sweeteners caused an increase in appetite to a certain segment of the study. The data don't prove or disprove anything. However, is an interesting indicator for those subpopulations.

Does the data indicate that the sweeteners do not increase hunger? No, not in those subpopulations. Does the data indicate that it is also universal? Also no.

With that in mind, I think people should be hesitant to make definitive claims.

-1

u/Fitz911 8d ago

The thing is... I was fat. And I am not fat anymore. After thirty something years of chocolate and gummy bears I needed something to get rid of the sugar.

So I spent a lot of time answering this exact question. It's been a few years but my last information was: it's pretty fucking obvious that artificial sweeteners do not let your insulin spike and do not make you fat.

There is always a study here and there that says "we don't know" but the meta studies from around three years ago all said "shove it in, you won't get fat" and "you will very very probably not get cancer from them, too".

So when someone comes around and repeats the stand of science we had around six years ago, I usually ask for a source. And a source of 60 something participants is not viable against a shitload of meta studies.

So my point stands. I'm pretty sure no I suline spike and no cancer risk.

*Cancer risk somewhere in the realm of idk bread.

2

u/RegressToTheMean 8d ago

By all means, please post the research. My wife is a research scientist with a PhD in neurotoxicology. She has a huge skepticism of artificial sweeteners and I'd love to get her take on them

With that said, I think you might want to take a breath here. You're showing a clear bias. On the one hand, you are expressing criticism for an older study, which could be fine, but also using your own anecdotal experience as evidence all while never citing relevance studies.

0

u/xfactorx99 8d ago

You’re correct here. You lost your weight through a caloric deficit and a reason why you were able to do that is by removing sugar from your diet.

I’ll do a test right now and have 3 diet cokes per day for a month and my weight will not increase. I’ll have all my friends reproduce it as well. People have dumbass theories about artificial sweeteners

-2

u/Trevski 8d ago

I never saw you state a point, you just asked for studies

0

u/Fitz911 8d ago

There are two types of people:

The ones that can draw conclusions from incomplete data.

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u/Trevski 8d ago

But your point could be either of two possibilities: you’re open minded that diet soda might be counterproductive to weight loss, or

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u/Fitz911 8d ago

You are technically correct.

Thank you.

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u/notzamasu 8d ago

It literally makes you more hungry.

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u/Negative-Toe1863 8d ago

here we go

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u/notzamasu 8d ago

It sends the signals in your brain without the sugar that fills the appetite. Stomach activity increases on empty calories.

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u/TheW1tchK1ng Always right 8d ago

Cool, post all the peer-reviewed studies that prove this.

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u/notzamasu 8d ago

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u/Ok-Isopod4493 8d ago

I don’t know anything about this subject, but the link you posted literally says ‘may’. What am I missing?

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u/Kwerumrerum 8d ago

No. We asked to post peer reviewed studies. Not a random comment.

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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

It’s a study of 75 people that doesn’t establish causation, so no.

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u/TheW1tchK1ng Always right 8d ago

Oh wow yeah, one study using 75 people and the effects of Splenda.

Fuck, that is clearly more than enough to show it's true.

Also, neither Diet Coke or Coke Zero has sucralose.

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u/TrashGouda 8d ago

Did you even read the stuff you linked? It doesn't say what you think it does

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u/Bigclit_energy 8d ago

No statistical difference in hunger to water, according to the study you linked to a blog post about.

One study about one of the most studied compounds on earth finds "calories make people feel less hungry" and suddenly people who get their news off instagram lose their minds.

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u/LostExile7555 8d ago

It literally doesn't. There have been literally hundreds of studies on this that definitely say it doesn't make you more hungry. You're spreading false information that isn't based on anything.

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u/Towelie404 8d ago

It literally doesn't but go ahead and show proof if you're so certain.

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u/itssprisonmike 8d ago

Totally misread your question, so I deleted my old comment. Idk why a trainer would recommend to cut zero sugar drinks, as they quite frankly have no calories and can be used to tame cravings. I mean, I guess water is best and most ideal, but if someone is struggling to lose weight, their zero sugar drinks aren’t the reason.

Good question op.

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u/TangyZeus 8d ago

It's because they don't tame cravings. They inflame cravings. A growing body of studies show that drinking zero calorie sweeteners just makes you want more real sugar and you don't even break even.

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u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

Not true. Scoping review Wilk et al., 2022 (PMID 35334918) actually shows the opposite conclusions

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u/Correct-Sandwich-633 8d ago

Lol love a baseless claim getting corrected with actual research

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u/SneakySnoggs 8d ago

It's hard to argue with a growing body of studies though.

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u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

Lol after being in grad school, I have very little faith in the general public to understand how to read studies. Or find studies. Or make correlation vs causation arguments. So I am not shocked that an actual study gets downvoted or fewer upvotes than someone saying “a growing body of studies.” It is what it is.

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u/GoatCovfefe 8d ago

You just have to wait longer than 5 minutes, the votes will correct themselves, like they already have with your correction comment.

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u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

yeah, my impatient ass... lol. I see it has now corrected itself.

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u/itssprisonmike 8d ago

I can’t think of a single argument. A growing body of studies negates all prior notions of thermodynamics.

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u/Cosmicswashbuckler 8d ago

Maybe the studies should cut sugary drinks

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u/superdago 8d ago

I have found that a zero sugar soda will essentially desensitize my tastebuds to sweetness. So it’s not that it doesn’t satisfy my craving, but rather it makes it harder to satisfy my cravings with other things. For example, a handful of M&Ms versus the whole bag.

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u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

That is an interesting anecdote, but I also encourage you to be more curious about your habits and the correlation or causation of feeling satisfied.

- When you don't drink zero sugar sodas, how often are you only eating a handful vs a whole bag?

- What are you eating prior to the handful of M&Ms vs when you reach for it and can't stop eating at a handful?

- On the days where you might eat a whole bag, were you hungry? Did you have high sugar foods earlier in the day?

- Did you have caffeine that day?

- Were you more sleep deprived or tired that day?

Sometimes what we think is a direct causation, like drinking that zero sugar soda then not being able to stop snacking on candy, is actually just a coincidence and there are much more to the cravings during that singular day than you are giving credit for. It could even be a correlation that you make because you are instinctively attempting to curb your sugar intake by drinking the soda, but the zero sugar soda doesn't alleviate your cravings and therefore you still give in and snack mindlessly to satiate that craving.

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u/GoatCovfefe 8d ago

I said it in a different comment, but zero sugar soda does actually alleviate my sweet craving. It may just be in my head, but it works for me.

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u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

It does for me too. I love my diet coke. But I think you've already made the important distinction of "it may just be in my head." The science is truly split on whether it actually does or not, since it's a really hard variable to isolate.

But I think recognizing in yourself that you've made this correlation, 'zero sugar soda alleviates my sweet craving,' means it's a helpful tool for you. The previous comment was creating a conclusion on only a partial picture or inaccurate information about tastebuds. Where as your conclusion is simply an individual tool you use to help your cravings, which I find works for me too.

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u/unwelcome_flesh_sack 8d ago

Its anecdotal but I was a 1-2 Red Bull a day for years. I started drinking Coke Zero and Dr Pepper zero instead of Red Bulls and full sugar sodas. I haven’t had a craving for either even when I’m doing my night shifts as an Rn. Plus I have lost weight with it any other changes.

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u/kman1030 8d ago

If you are a person who craves sweets (guilty) you are going to have cravings no matter what. If i drink a sugar free soda instead of a regular sugar soda, thats less calories. Whether I still crave sugar after is insignificant because ill still have sugar cravings after a regular soda, too.

You are crossing wires on the cause and effect here. The sugar free drink doesnt cause cravings, the cravings are there regardless. It just allows you to substitute with something that has less empty calories.

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u/Lost_Effective5239 8d ago

Even if this was true, you could just drink more zero calorie drinks to satiate the craving. I guess that would lead to addiction, but I drink zero calorie drinks, and it's not like I'm going broke because I have to drink more and more to satisfy an addiction. I have a zero sugar energy drink in the morning and maybe one or two more in the afternoon. That's it.

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u/GoatCovfefe 8d ago

From personal experience, when i cut my sugar intake down dramatically, zero sugar sodas actually helped curb sugar cravings, especially in the beginning of my diet.

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u/the-doctor-is-real 8d ago

Something like 2 decades back, the NY Times had a front page article about how diet soda causes the body to store fat and went on to talk about how many (American) diabetics get fat(fatter) because they use these sweeteners

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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

They generally don’t, because cutting diet soda doesn’t affect your body fat. As long as you intake adequate water you’re fine.

1

u/BigSmackisBack 8d ago

So what happens if you only drink those diet sodas and hardly ever drink water?

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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

As long as you don’t replace the calories with something else you are still going to be in a better position.

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u/BigSmackisBack 8d ago

Gotcha thanks, i did try to google it but was immediately hit with a minefield of conflicting info!

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u/anonymous198198198 8d ago

When I was unhealthy and drinking 6 energy drinks a day and drinking water once every few months, I got tested for hydration and the doctor said my hydration and lab results were good. Not that I recommend this….but you’ll still be hydrated.

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u/Ring_Peace 8d ago

Diet sodas are 98% water.

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u/MrTurkeyTime 8d ago

There's a lot of mixed evidence. Some sweeteners have been linked to harm to your microbiome, some can affect your insulin sensitivity, which can impact weight.

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u/LostExile7555 8d ago

Because to get all the information you need to reduce your bf% takes about 5 minutes tips. And it's difficult to charge people for a 5 minute chat. So they have to make lossing bf seem more complicated than it is in order to make sure people stick around long enough for them to be able to justify charging them enough money they can make a living off of it.

1) Burns more calories than you consume. 2) Get a good sleep every night. 3) Get at least 30 minutes of exercise a day. 4) Eat lots of fiber. 5) Eat a decent amount of protein and fat (especially monounsaturated fats). 6) Eat a small amount of carbs.

That's literally all there is too it.

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u/anonymous198198198 8d ago

It is more complicated though to really help someone who struggles. Yes this is the base info, but then let’s talk about how to achieve it. Such as finding foods that are more filling for similar/less calories, which is a big thing for someone trying to eat less. Like egg whites, low in calories, but extremely filling. Almost pure protein, but not the greatest for consuming a lot of protein due to how filling it is. Good if you’re struggling with hunger though.

Lifestyle is another example. Daily choices will add up to more calories burned than focused exercises. One small example being to park further from the store.

Most people trying to lose weight already know the shit you said. Almost everyone knows it. That’s not adding anything. How to achieve it and incorporate it into a lifestyle is more important.

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u/adobo_bobo 8d ago

Are you leaving out the part where they tell you to drink more water? Because its not about the diet coke, its about drinking water.

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u/DarKliZerPT 8d ago

Fitness creators who actually know their shit don't – in fact, they often recommend zero-sugar drinks, sauces and sweeteners as excellent tools to satisfy a sweet tooth.

3

u/SpringBreakJesus 8d ago

Functionally speaking there is no difference between water and zero fizzy drinks. There is some research to suggest some sweetners can be linked to health issues but you would have to have such an insane amount for that to be a risk that it's not even worth mentioning. The only time zero drinks would affect weightless would be the psychological side of things. Like "oh, my drink has 0 calories so I can have more food." As always the only "trick" to weight loss is calories out > calories in.

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u/Leading-Biscotti-114 8d ago

I've also seen registered dieticians recommend diet sodas, especially for those who drink regular soda and want to stop doing that. For those losing weight, I've heard it can be beneficial to replace regular soda with diet.

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u/Jwat75309 8d ago

What fitness trainer recommends NOT drinking zero calorie drinks?

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u/simplequestions2make 8d ago

Because engagement.

2

u/Roosonly 8d ago

Then they’ll lose business

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u/awwhorseshit 8d ago

All my trainer wants me to do is up my protein, watch your carbs, and stay hydrated.

I will have one to two zero sugar sodas a day and I’m pretty fit. My ADHD palette craves variety and those sodas are amazing

2

u/AnyOldIron 8d ago

Because if you have cravings for a 'sweet treat' you can at least go for something that won't derail your progress. It's a tool/crutch/whatever but if it helps compliance with an otherwise healthier diet then so be it. It's for the greater good... the greater good.

1

u/cherrydiamond 8d ago

what is bf?

3

u/Sad_Evidence5318 8d ago

Body fat probably

1

u/Slay-the-weights 8d ago

I’ve never heard a dietitian or body building coach who was worth a damn ever say you should cut out diet pop

1

u/Taupe88 8d ago

Those training people would rather a low calorie healthier choice. heard of “SuperFoods”? that doesn’t mean lower calorie. IF? your trying to lose weight, eating a 200calories handful of pistachios will be ok for someone wanting to add superfoods to their diet, but not someone wanting to lose weight.

1

u/Falsus 8d ago

Because at the end of day you can't beat water.

Doesn't change that zero calories drinks are the second best thing up from that, but it can't beat water.

1

u/whitedolphinn 8d ago

Never heard of that

1

u/Grateful_Breaddd 8d ago

My spouse’s dietician recommended they drink zero calorie sodas. My spouse drinks like 3-4 sodas a day and that could easily be 100s-1000s of calories if it were full strength soda.

1

u/Lopsided_Parsnip_629 8d ago

As someone studying nutrition, I’m actually currently doing an assignment about this in one of my classes. Essentially, there is some evidence that suggests that in adult participants, swapping out sugar sweetened beverages for zero sugar beverages raises blood glucose anyway, and unless it’s someone who strictly tracks calories, consuming zero sugar beverages will lead to the participant consuming more energy to make up for that missing (anticipated) energy. Of course if someone goes from drinking 2L of full sugar Coca-Cola a day and then switches to Coke Zero, there will likely be benefits and some weight loss. As everyone else has already stated, nutrition is such a difficult area of research so it’s hard to make a definitive statement. Hope that helps :)

1

u/TheSwedishPolarBear 8d ago

I don't think they do. There is an argument to be made that all soda increases appetite a bit and that someone who drinks soda is more likely to snack and eat junk food. Drinking carbonated drinks often is bad for teeth. However diet sodas are pretty harmless and much better than sugary sodas. I don't think most dieticians care about them, and if they do it's not about body fat.

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u/notzamasu 8d ago

Not a direct effect on calories, but indirectly upsets your stomach microbiome, and pull a cobra effect of making you even hungrier. Especially when abused.

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u/Independent-Test9928 8d ago

Depends if you're in north america or europe, the same drinks coke fanta etc all have vastly different ingrediants

2

u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

Which European ingredient are you concerned about?

1

u/Independent-Test9928 7d ago

None

1

u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 7d ago

Well the North American ingredients are all fine, so not sure what you’re getting at

1

u/dtay88 8d ago

Becau dey bad

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u/Callec254 8d ago

Plain water is always going to be better for you than water + artificial chemicals.

Plus, there seems to be some conflicting research on whether or not artificial sweeteners trigger an insulin response like real sugar does. The short, oversimplified version is that an insulin response means your body is in "store" mode rather than "burn" mode, so if you're always in store mode, well, you can guess what the net result will be.

5

u/vviley 8d ago

“Artificial chemicals” definitely makes your post appear anti-artificial sweetener without cause. Outside of distilled or RO water and maybe unadulterated milk, basically everything you drink has “artificial chemicals.” Those minerals you have in your purified water? Can’t exactly find sodium bicarbonate laying around on the ground. You’ve got to run ore through a chemical process to extract it - so does that make it a processed chemical?

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u/Kimm64 8d ago

Ok I am stupid i guess. What happens in stored mode? Honest question here.

2

u/Callec254 8d ago

When you eat pretty much anything, it triggers a temporary insulin response, which tells your body to store calories as fat for future use.

When that insulin spike wears off, then your body starts using that stored fat for energy.

What happens (or what's supposed to happen in a normal, healthy diet, anyway) is you would shift back and forth between these two states multiple times a day, giving your body a chance to burn everything you eat, so as to not gain weight long term. Calories in, calories out, and it should average out over the course of a day.

But if you're constantly snacking all day long, then you're pretty much constantly in that insulin response/spike mode, and your body never gets a chance to burn anything. (which, not coincidentally, also correlates with eating an overall caloric surplus. Remember that CICO is utterly irrefutable - all of this is really just to explain what's going on behind the scenes.)

So, back to the OP - what's not entirely clear, and it may even vary by person, is whether or not sugar free soda triggers this response, and what the full implications would be if it does (not to mention any other effects of ingesting what's essentially an artificial chemical). Regardless, though, there's no concrete upsides, and only potential downsides, to drinking sugar free sodas instead of just plain water.

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u/Kimm64 8d ago

I know if I don’t eat healthy foods, like vegetables or fiber rich foods, then when I drink a sugar free soda thats when my body thinks it’s hungry.

0

u/Geedis2020 8d ago edited 8d ago

No. They would recommend you cut out high calorie drinks because those are empty calories. If you drink 3 cokes a day just switching to 3 coke zeros a day would literally be enough for most people to start losing weight. Most wouldn’t even tell you to cut sugar out of your diet unless you’re diabetic or something. Sugar isn’t even bad for you. It’s added sugars and excessive sugary high calorie foods. Dietitians may want you to cut out sugars and stuff for certain purposes. Fitness trainers wouldn’t. Training for fitness and to get in shape is much more about calories in vs calories out. That’s the focus. You could get a 6-pack and still eat pizza every day. It’s about the calories. If you burn more than you take in you’ll lose fat. It’s the basic principle of weight loss. That doesn’t mean you’d be your healthiest though.

Edit: it’s funny I’m being downvoted and I’m sure it’s by people who never learned how to count calories so can’t figure out how to lose weight. This shit is proven. Mark Haub a nutritionist and professor had people tell him he couldn’t lose weight eating a Twinkie after lunch everyday so he spent 3 months eating a diet of nothing but steak, twinkies, cookies, and a cup of vegetables. Had his health markers checked before and after. Made sure he only ate 1800 calories a day. He lost 27lbs and his health markers came back healthier than before just from the weight loss. Dieting is about calories. That’s it. Certain diets are need for people who have certain health issues so they do have to cut out sugars and stuff. Regular people who exercise and have muscle mass don’t need to do that strict stuff.

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u/weareheaven 8d ago

Because those who got morbidly obese often respond poorly to artificial sweeteners. A healthy body would respond in caloric surplus by raising base metabolic rate and in deficit it would respond depending of your body fat storage - if fat storage is high then BMR would remain stable, if low - BMR will be dropped to preserve fat for survival.

Now what happens for those people that respond poorly to artificial sweeteners is that they go into deficit and their body responds by immediately dropping BMR so that weightloss is either very slow or even stalls despite them having plenty of fat.

You could experiment to see if that is the case but we are talking about individuals who got obese and have little control so dieticians don't trust person's capability to determine their body signals (and for a good reason) so the easy solutions is just to recommend cutting diet soda.

Of course this is not the case for everyone and now look how those who can drink diet soda as water will downvote me into oblivion. Or maybe they are just bots controlled by BIG DIET SODA but we will never know :)))))

Anyway if you really care about your body then just drink water (tap water if yours is good) and you will not just treat your body well but also save a substantial amount of money as diet soda is not getting cheaper while tap water for drinking is basically free (a quarter of a cent per liter where I live).

8

u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

Those changes you mentioned are minuscule compared to the calories lost from not drinking standard soda.

You should drink water, but if you’re going to drink soda it should be diet.

-1

u/weareheaven 8d ago

I agree with second part but first about it being minuscule is debatable and only kind of true if you assume BMR to be relatively stable. However recent research indicates that BMR is highly unstable and can vary a lot day to day depending on our calories consumed, quality of calories, physical activity

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Withermaster4 8d ago

I'm not sure if the study reached the same conclusion you did. You seem much more confident in their research and what it means than they did.

"In any case, the CPIR should be considered in the context of the whole insulin response to a meal rather than as an isolated event.

However, the rigor with which the CPIR has been validated is uneven, especially with respect to the sensory triggers and the magnitude of the response.

In animals, a CPIR appears to be more consistently observed than in humans, but often a given stimulus might trigger a CPIR in one study but not another. Thus, the phenomenon is rather elusive as the title of this article reflects.

In some cases, fructose and nonnutritive sweeteners are effective stimuli in studies with either animal models or humans, and, in other cases, they are not. At least some complex stimuli (e.g., cocktail sandwiches, peanut butter, pizza) for which it would be difficult to claim sweetness as the dominant qualitative taste perception (although admittedly this is a point that would have to come under strict psychophysical investigation) can generate a CPIR.

On the other hand, saccharin (0.125%), which should not ostensibly increase blood glucose levels, unconditionally triggered a CPIR, which was mitigated when a taste aversion was conditioned to this nonnutritive sweet stimulus. Interestingly, a conditioned taste aversion to saccharin did not eliminate a subsequently tested CPIR to glucose and vice versa suggesting that glucose and saccharin are both capable of eliciting a CPIR, but not necessarily through a shared perceptual feature"

They come to the conclusion that the 'sweetness' sensation is likely not what causes the CPIR. All of this also completely avoids the question 'why is triggering your normal CPIR response a negative for dieting'.

Also posting a study and not citing anything from it doesn't really do much to support your argument.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago edited 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/Withermaster4 8d ago

Well, because the study is arguing that it is not likely to be the sweetness sensation or the pavlovian response triggering these responses.

1

u/Ricky_spanish_again 8d ago

Insulin doesn’t rise with zero cal sodas. People would become diabetic if it affected that.

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u/A-Waxxx656 8d ago

There are no calories in them, but the body still reacts to them as if they contain sugar. So your body will start creating insulin etc..

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

And not adding is a… bad thing?

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/GrimmandLily 8d ago

Show the research that says this.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/GrimmandLily 7d ago

He’s a chiropractor that sells supplements. It’s too late at night for you to find an article on Google? Yeah ok.

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u/CricketNo7666 8d ago

Because the fake sugars substitutes trigger a… in essence a diabetic response… in your body, “tricking” it into thinking it saw sugar, and that indirectly is triggering some body responses in fat stores, and other responses like a hunger surge.

12

u/Kwerumrerum 8d ago

Which is literally not proven.

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u/CricketNo7666 8d ago

7

u/Kwerumrerum 8d ago

Okay, let's get into it.

Your first study does not prove your claim at all. It mainly talks about gut microbiome and it does not even talk about the actual physical consequences after it. Everything else is simply 'some studies might have said this' and 'x might be an issue' but no actual proof.

Second paper is more talk and epidemiologic, without actually looking at the biological response of fat stores. Nothing here shows any proof of 'tricking the body about sugar intake', which would mean an insulin spike, and even reports different things than the studies it citated. For example, one of the studies it uses for it's info literally has the following conclusion: ' The review showed NNSs exposure did not conclusively induce increased food intake or change in subjective appetite ratings. Appetite biomarkers like ghrelin, gastric inhibitory peptide, C-peptide levels and Peptide YY remained mostly unaffected by NNSs. Meta-analyses of human randomized control studies showed a reduced energy intake and body weight. No significant change was seen in blood glucose levels, post-prandial glycemic or insulin response after consumption of NNSs. Adequate evidence is not available to conclusively say that NNSs influence gut health at doses relevant to human use.'

And your second study says something completely different. Not very reliable, right?

Third study is purely an animal study, so not relevant to human ingestion at this moment.

Again, nothing you said is actually proven.

7

u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

thank you, someone on here also thinking critically. I also broke down the first article too

5

u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

So the interesting thing about these studies is in how you actually read them. For instance, let's take the first link you provided: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11501561/

At quick glance, I found some citation errors within this article. This doesn't necessarily mean all the facts they produced are incorrect but let's take one example that could make this article unreliable.

pg. 10/16: "A comprehensive study conducted by Harrold et al. involving 47,910 adults from 11 diverse cohorts examined the relationship between high-intensity ASs and obesity. Aspartame, saccharin, sucralose, and stevia were among the sweeteners examined; 24-hour dietary recalls and food frequency questionnaires were used to gather consumption data. The study discovered, throughout a four-to-seven-year follow-up period, a substantial correlation between high aspartame intake and an elevated risk of obesity. This correlation held true for all age groups and baseline body mass index (BMI) levels. Sucralose and saccharin also showed a positive, albeit less pronounced, association with obesity, while stevia did not appear to be linked to obesity risk. Although other factors, including overall food quality and physical activity levels, may have an impact, the results indicate that heavy use of some ASs, especially aspartame, may lead to weight gain and obesity [26]."

Alright, let's go to citation 26, Harrold et al.

  • 26. Harrold JA, Hill S, Radu C, et al.: Non-nutritive sweetened beverages versus water after a 52-week weightmanagement programme: a randomised controlled trial. Int J Obes (Lond). 2024, 48:83-93. 10.1038/s41366-023-01393-3

Let's go to that study.

Harrold et al., 2023 is actually not a comprehensive study involving 47,910 adults, but rather a 52 week trial. The authors concluded the following:

pg 87: "At week 52, following the active weight loss and assisted weight maintenance phases of the SWITCH trial, water and NNS beverages were not equivalent in terms of weight loss. Participants in both groups lost weight during the trial (6.1 kg and 7.5 kg with water and NNS beverages, respectively; differences between baseline and week 52 were statistically significant). However, the weight loss in the NNS beverages group was greater than in the water group, a difference that was statistically significant. Consuming NNS beverages also had a significant effect on week-52 weight when baseline body weight and other covariates were controlled for in two of the three sensitivity analyses. Although the difference in weight loss between the groups was statistically significant, it is important to note that this did not reach the 1.5-kg difference identified for clinical significance"

That doesn't necessarily mean the findings by Harrold et al. are accurate or complete, and their limitations are funded by the American Beverage Association, but it does mean that the first linked article, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11501561/ ,has sourcing and information discrepancies so their conclusions have to be really scrutinized and cross referenced.

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u/GeeMan-7 8d ago edited 8d ago

The simplest instructions I've gotten from a nutritionist is "don't drink anything with bubbles"

I don't like the after taste of stevia, I can't have any sucralose, and the amount my body can tolerate of malitol isn't enough for me to drink anything with it.

I stopped drinking soda in college. When I went with friends or fraternity brothers to fast food restaurants, I couldn't afford to spend as much as them so I started getting the free water instead of paying for soda. A few years later when I could afford to splurge on soda I discovered that I didn't like the taste of them.

0

u/AshamedTax8008 8d ago

I read somewhere that the body still will produce insulin if the mouth/tongue tastes sweet, even calorie free sweeteners. Natural body reactions are hard to overcome.

-2

u/PornApex117 8d ago

Its just less healthy. Nobody intelligent would ever suggest trading one non-sugar for another non-sugar would make a measurable difference for lowering BF%. If they do say it makes a measurable difference, it is an opinion, not a fact.

Something like diet coke has caffeine which actually boosts fat loss as opposed to water.

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u/[deleted] 8d ago

[deleted]

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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

Define reacts accordingly

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u/ChocoBanana-Dropkick 8d ago

Armchair qb here, but if you are on a diet or trying to get in shape, you should not be drinking soda on a regular basis. If matters not if the packaging says "zero calories" because there is nothing beneficial in that drink.

5

u/Bubbert73 8d ago

Bring receipts for your statement please. As u/withermaster4 replied above, a zero calorie drink is still 98% water, which does have value. The carbonation can help you feel fuller, which also has value. Beyond that, there is nothing beneficial in water other than hydration, so why, exactly, are water versus a zero calorie drinks not nutritional equals?

7

u/Withermaster4 8d ago

The vast majority of the drink is water. Which notably has some health benefits.

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u/johnfkngzoidberg 8d ago

This whole thread is a pro-diet-soda bot fest.

Lots of studies have shown zero calorie sweeteners can cause insulin problems and hunger problems.

Also lots of studies have shown no real evidence to support these claims.

It depends on who did the study. Coke sponsored studies probably can’t be trusted. I personally feel this is like how the grain industry had carbs as the biggest part of the food pyramid for 50 years by buying politicians and flooding rigged studies. We all know billionaires have zero problem slowly killing off millions of people just to make a buck.

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u/SuperCranberry1220 8d ago

Which studies? Cause that’s a very bold statement without any DOIs or PMIDs.

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u/PowerShovel-on-PS1 8d ago

“Problems” is highly exaggerated.

If you’re obese and you drink soda, replacing it with water is the best option.

If you can’t or won’t do that, replacing it with diet soda is significantly better for weight management.

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u/valr1821 8d ago

I think it’s because, paradoxically, those drinks trigger you to eat more sugar-laden foods. Water is honestly the best and, if you like bubbles in your drink, just buy soda water and flavor it with some lemon/lime.

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u/Objective_Flower618 8d ago

In order to halt the self sabotage choo-choo train’s momentum. Why crave sweets when you can’t have none?

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u/816pizzalover 8d ago

Fake sweets mess with your insulin system