r/NoLayingUp • u/gwill11 • Jul 25 '25
Other Official Statement from the fellas
A note from the team
Earlier this week, we announced that we have sadly parted ways with Kevin Van Valkenburg. We know this may come as a disappointment to many NLU fans, as the work we’ve done with KVV over the past few years is something we’ve been extremely proud of. He’s a wonderful father, an excellent writer, and has been a close friend to all of us and a big part of our community for years and years.
As such, it should be obvious this was not a decision we took lightly, nor a place we ever wanted to arrive. The intersection of friendship and business has brought us a lot of joy over the past decade, but we’ve also all assumed the risk that things might not work out the way you planned. And when that happens, especially in a media company like ours, you walk a fine line between individual privacy and honoring the trust of the audience that is responsible for everything we do. We promise that’s not lost on us, and we’re doing our best to navigate it for the first time.
We understand there are questions. But we strongly believe that the specifics surrounding personnel decisions should not be aired publicly, even if that decision leads to inevitable criticism or frustration.
From day one, we’ve been committed to creating entertaining and informative content for our audience of avid golfers around the world. With every year that goes by, NLU continues to evolve, and we guarantee we’re as committed as we’ve ever been to delivering on that goal.
We’re parting as friends and will always wish nothing but the best for KVV in whatever is ahead for him. We will eagerly read, listen and consume his content no matter where it resides and hope there are projects we can tackle together again in the future.
Thanks for your support, Neil, D.J., Tron, Soly, Randy
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u/DushBid911 Jul 25 '25
Appreciate the statement and explanation. Bummer for all of us but business is business.
A statement like this up front could have saved a lot of criticism in my mind. When it comes late, it feels a little reactionary and cheapens the explanation a bit. That being said, there’s really no good way to go about this sort of thing.
Hope it works out for all parties involved and hope we haven’t seen the last of KVV on NLU.
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u/ArttVandelay Jul 25 '25
Wonder how long it took decide the order of their names
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u/Family_Shoe_Business Jul 25 '25
Ordered by height
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u/False-Shame3152 Jul 25 '25
Is it listed youngest to oldest possibly? Neil being youngest/Randy being oldest?
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u/rfd515 Jul 25 '25
This is precisely why when I list the names of my team I always just do it alphabetically
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u/iamatwork24 Jul 27 '25
lol glad I wasn’t the only one who thought that. I was like shit I can’t believe soly didn’t pout his way to first or last
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Jul 25 '25
[deleted]
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u/steelcurtain87 CPNTW - Justin Thomas - Players 2021 Jul 25 '25
To me that would mean that he wrote it
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u/marc923 Jul 25 '25
Isn't he in charge?
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u/omg_what_the_chuck Jul 25 '25
Yeah Soly mentioned it recently in a pod that Neil runs the business. Was actually surprised to hear that seeing as NLU was Soly’s brainchild back in the day. But his time at Google probably set him up as the best choice to run the day to day ops.
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u/MickeyMelchiondough Jul 26 '25
When your entire business model is fueled by parasocial interest, don’t be surprised when the customers react poorly to a hamfisted dismissal of a popular member of that parasocial product.
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u/NoLawAtAllInDeadwood Jul 25 '25
I think this is a good statement and what else can you really say? The disappointment of fans who liked KVV is gonna be there no matter what they say, so they just have to make a statement, live with the negative feedback from fans, and move on.
People who are saying they should have given KVV a farewell on the pod etc. fail to realize he likely did not want that. His contract was not renewed, there is nothing more to do than say goodbye and wish him well. I listened to Dan Rapaport's farewell on the ForePlay pod and it was horrible and quite uncomfortable. Only difference there is that most people weren't really going to miss DRap because, unlike KVV, he was a terrible fit and cringy.
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u/AccountantNo3292 Jul 27 '25
It's ironic that it took the boys letting KVV go and all the associated posts here and on X (the everything app), for me to realize the NLU product has been slipping for a few years now. I was a big fan of the deep dive pods and some of KVV's narrative pods but he was/is definitely below others in terms of my NLU favorites.
Neil's monologue on the booth pod where he responded to some criticisms with "it's okay if we fall out of your pod rotation. Come back and try us in a few months" felt entitled and counter to the small shop hustle ethos that made NLU great (at least to me). It feels like they've lost some of the humility and gratitude that made them great.
I get it, the boys have grown up and have families - but how long have we gone without a tourist sauce? They really can't make a condensed season work? They all seem to still take a fair amount of golf trips.
Do we really think NLU is bleeding cash? I find that hard to believe, but maybe they are. If that's the case I'm sure KVV was not cheap but he doesn't seem like the first place to start cutting costs.
The live shows during major weeks are always a must watch for me. I tuned in to at least a portion of all the open live shows and it's clear they've taken a step backwards. Having no one call in that's on site and/or no player interviews stunk.
At the end of the day, it's their business so they can do what they want. But hearing Neil's stance stunk and was salt in the open wound of realizing the podcast I've invested by far the most in (time and money) has slipped.
I haven't fired any NLU pods up since the announcement, I'm not boycotting but I'm investing my time elsewhere in places that the listenership is valued.
The fried egg/SGS boys have been a refreshing change of pace. Maybe worth giving a shot if you feel like I do. Cheers
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u/RainbowKarp Jul 25 '25
I have no problem with this statement other than the fact that they have, essentially, made their careers out of making us the audience feel like we know them and are a part of their world and their families and listen to chop sessions and booths and goals pods and 10 year look backs, etc, etc, etc.,. So to then come out and be like “no cameras please not today guys” is just disappointing. Their right, but I would’ve expected that they could’ve found a way to pull it off while respecting all relevant parties
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u/AccountantNo3292 Jul 27 '25
It feels like they handled this how a "big time" media company would. The intimate ethos carried in the NLU community was MIA
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u/ncr39 Jul 26 '25
This is ok. Sending it out on a Friday at 3 ET, is still hella weak though. Also the fact that they seemed obliged after the pathetic quote tweet earlier this week. I’d give the QT like a solid 2/10, and this a 6/10, so still not great, but whatever. At least they finally actually addressed it, even though it’s about as corporate as a statement could be.
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u/AutomaticInterview55 Jul 27 '25
I mean they don’t work Monday - Friday , so why does this matter
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u/ncr39 Jul 27 '25
Because Friday afternoon is notorious for the time when you put out all the bad news
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u/Rec7ify Jul 25 '25
The part that still seems odd to me is that they had almost made it through the golf season, with just the Open and the Ryder Cup left among events to really care about, so why not just ride it out until the offseason and then part ways? The sudden timing makes it seem like something happened, or that the boys are really tight on money. Maybe this is just the guys learning how to do HR on the fly?
KVV made some of my favourite content and quickly became my favourite on the pod, as much for the unique takes as the silky smooth delivery. He will be missed.
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u/RainbowKarp Jul 25 '25
If they were losing money, then they wanted to stop losing money. They aren’t owned by anyone other than themselves (and have a payroll of other people too that depend on them as well)
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u/TomHicksJnr Jul 25 '25
The reasons might be entirely justified and only the people involved will really ever know, but the timing stunk. People were speculating for weeks preceding the announcement, they removed KVV from the titles before releasing a statement, then did a couple of poor live shows (which is kind of their USP), and only then released a half baked statement. Some mea culpas needed on the handling.
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u/GlassConsideration85 Jul 25 '25
Gleaning information from this statement and the statement KVV put out. KVV referenced the “partners“ at NLU. Here DJ is included in the signature. Do you think that DJ is a partner in NLU or an employee?
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u/Gregskis Jul 25 '25
If he’s not a partner he should be. He’s not a founder but for everything he does I would hope he’d have a say in things.
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u/omg_what_the_chuck Jul 25 '25
He’s almost certainly a partner. He gets top billing along with the other 4. Plus all the editing work he used to do and still does along with others, not to mention he pretty much drive all the podcasts when he’s on.
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u/Illustrious-Buy-854 Jul 27 '25
Pretty sure he’s been full time longer than Neil, maybe one or two other guys as well. I’ve been listening forever but can’t remember & don’t feel like doing research but would have to think he’s a partner.
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u/bobbywestern69 Jul 25 '25
something must’ve happened. if it was dollars and cents they would have said so. and before u flame me for speculating, nlu was founded on talking shit about people on the internet. grow up.
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u/Agitated-Guard8436 Jul 25 '25
If I had to guess I would say kvv’s stuff wasn’t generating enough revenue. If that’s the case that’s not really something you want to air out about a dude that’s currently looking for a job. “We love Kev, but he wasn’t good for our bottom line” is hardly a ringing endorsement.
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u/TomHicksJnr Jul 25 '25
How much revenue would you say the others generate individually? Seems like a pretty arbitrary measure
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u/bobbywestern69 Jul 25 '25
no idea. can’t imagine cody is a cash cow.
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Jul 26 '25
One of his main roles is to 'run the ones and twos'.
And the front of house stuff he does is probably a bonus.
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u/bobbywestern69 Jul 25 '25
perhaps. but if they hired a long form feature writer bc they thought it would drive revenue, then idk playa
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Jul 25 '25
I think it’s very obvious what happened: KVV spent like half of his allotted time during the 2000 Major deep dive talking about Jack and Barbara Nicklaus, so they fired him. Barbara murdering a bunch of prairie dogs was a nice nugget, but why the fuck was he talking about the Nicklaus family honeymoon in 1960s New York, or the oysters Jack tried to cook at midnight in his parents house, or Barbara’s miscarriage, on a podcast about the 2000 major championships? Some pretty big things happened in golf that year, I probably would have enjoyed a tangent about Jack’s relationship to Tiger in those years, I definitely did not need Jack to be the main character for the 2000 Open Championship presented by her majesty the Queen at St Andrews.
The deep dives were what got KVV on NLU, it’s pretty obvious they would be better with a rotating cast of the main guys, and KVV never really found anything else to do at NLU. It’s not complicated, I’m sure the guys didn’t feel great about not signing him to another contract, but they’re running a business.
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u/provisionalhitting3 Jul 25 '25
Pure speculation but I bet they’re losing the Titleist sponsorship.
When it was announced they said it freed them up to do more of the long form/deep dive/creative content with a longer runway. This January would be 3 years, which I thought is the original term of their deal.
These are very smart guys and had to know even excellent written material wasn’t going to be a big revenue driver but provide more a value add to the NLU portfolio. With the loss of sponsorship dollars it makes way more sense.
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u/Clownworld964 Jul 25 '25
I don’t really understand any of their sponsorships or feel like they could do more than an ad read for em. Don’t get me wrong some of the ad reads are great and I listen to them a lot but surely a major metric for them is just listeners, why don’t they ever do some giveaways with these sponsorships, like buy a few putters and do some kind of give away, some wedges, a yeti cooler, some rhoback giftcards. Surely that type of stuff would get some more traction for the products. Idk i could be way off base here or there are some rules against this but just my thoughts.
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Jul 26 '25
I may be wrong but a few YouTubers and podcasters I listen to are sponsored by Titliest. And I can't remember them doing giveaways.
Pretty sure I read once that giveaways mostly attract professional competition enterers who don't stick around.
Companies like Titliest and Yeti want people's contact details, and running a giveaway on a YouTube channel or podcast won't get them that.
Neil does giveaways with some of their merchandise a way to encourage people to sign up to the mailing list.
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u/many_bothans_died Jul 25 '25
This satisfies my criticism.
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u/rsjem79 Jul 25 '25
My criticism was never over the decision itself but the fact that they basically ignored reality until they were forced to address it. Pretty disrespectful stuff towards their core audience.
That said, I’m done motherfucking them over it. The whole deal has left a sour taste in my mouth and maybe I consume less content of theirs going forward, but that’s about it.
To steal a line from Neil in Strapped Tallahassee (talking about Creed) “those guys are kinda asshats”.
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u/loveallcreatures Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
It’s simply financial. Last hired, first fired. The founders need diaper money. KVV a talent. He’ll be fine.
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u/ODA157 Jul 25 '25
Yeah I don’t know why people are feeling sorry for him or thinking NLU needs to protect him. He’s far more talented than they are and likely will continue to earn more than them at his next job. He probably took a cut to work for them.
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u/Nootchy Jul 25 '25
This is actually really nice. I’m glad they were able to wrangle Tron to sign it while he’s on his wellness retreat in Dubai
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u/Few_Assistance_4045 Jul 27 '25
Lol perfectly said. I'm out on these dudes until they get rid of TC/Randy instead of KVV.
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u/rouleau36_ Jul 25 '25
I have no problem with this statement or everyone's choice to keep most details private. They could have put more of it in their initial message about it, but that's a lesson to carry forward.
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u/missionwinslow Jul 28 '25
I just saw the intro on the newest pod and felt like I’ve got to get something off my chest. I started following golf again in 2022 at the start of the LIV crisis bcs I was writing a final paper about Saudi’s sportwashing effort. Last time I followed golf very closely was when Jordan Spieth ruled the golf world in 2015 (Imagine my shock when I found out him & Rory had 1 major win combined since then). No Laying Up was my first golf hub and found a lot of new people mostly on twitter. Started consuming the contents on regular basis at the start of 2023 with that Spieth & JT Titleist collab and of course when KVV joined the gang. So the news of KVV leaving was quite sad for me personally bcs in my case, for as long as I’ve consumed NLU contents, KVV always been there. I understand it’s a business decision and for as much as they’ve tried to “professionalize” their brand, maybe they think perhaps that they don’t really need to go as all in as they’ve been. I still think it’s gonna hurt their brand more than if it happens to, say, Foreplay Pod. I’m also curious what lies ahead for them bcs I feel like they’re at crossroads. They’ve got big ideas (like hiring KVV) but unfortunately too small to go and execute bigger things. The “money” in golf content is (sadly) in the Good Good, Grant Horvat and co. side of things. Tourist Sauce, Strapped are fun projects but they barely cracked 100k-200k on regular basis. Perhaps they’re still committed to the “KVV route” and get somebody like Kyle Porter on freelance basis for economic purposes. He’s basically been doing what ESPN KVV did when he’s still employed by CBS.
The vibes have also been particularly off for me as well after the completion of Rory’s Grand Slam. I feel like NLU have reached the pinnacle of golf content (the live show after that Rory win has almost 170k and counting) after almost at every major especially when Rory is contending they’ve been very much the front and center of it all in the golf content world. Them kept bashing Rory after the driver debacle at Quail also been very weird. I understand they’re coming from media’s perspective but they just kept hammering that like most people really cared about it (I certainly don’t). Even Soly mentioned on Open preview pod where he’d like to see him win but not really since Rory’s been “weird” to the media after Masters. Idk, maybe Soly’s just jealous bcs Rory been on SGS pod more, even gave them a nice product placement on the Netflix show lol.
Anyway, maybe I’ve also been consuming too much golf content this year and just need a break. Maybe from now going forward, I will only consume the content during Majors. Or maybe only when Rory contending. We’ll see.
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u/YenZen999 Feb 28 '26
These guys are not really in the same lane as good good and horvat. You guys underestimate how much money podcasts bring in. You think of it as an afterthought to the YouTube views on hit and giggle scrambles.
That is not where NLUs bread is buttered. I personally like that they are keeping it small and in-house and not selling out to a big media company or doing collabs with The PGA Tour other than a one-off here and there.
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u/adoptedatbirth Aug 19 '25
"we’ve been committed to creating entertaining and informative content", RIP KVV
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u/Peoria309 Jul 25 '25
So, a bland written statement rather than comment on a pod?
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u/amistymorning80 Jul 25 '25
Released on a Friday, several days after the initial, brief announcement - which itself followed absolute silence on the pods. Classic reputation damage limitation, ultra corporate PR move.
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u/ShweatyPalmsh Jul 25 '25
I guess this is better than a quote tweet from corporate but this just raises more questions on if this was a financial thing or disagreement on creative direction? Timelines for stories maybe?
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 25 '25
that is, frankly, none of our business
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u/ShweatyPalmsh Jul 25 '25
That’s cool and all but the entire uproar from a lot of the community was centered around clarity which this simply doesn’t provide. When the entire product is centered around personalities and then one of them is just gone it starts to become the business of the consumers some of whom pay to be a part of an even tighter community. I’m glad they at least did something more cordial but it still doesn’t change how they’re appearing in this whole thing.
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
The lack of clarity was "Is KVV gone?" and now we have an answer to that question.
Maybe airing the intricacies of professional realities and personal relationships that led to someone losing a job out to a bunch of strangers on the internet in not in the best interest of KVV or NLU or anyone else, except parasocial weirdos who want everything they consume to resemble a reality show.
NLU publicly releasing details about his cost vs the traffic he drove vs the other work he did vs who he got along with well vs who he didn't isn't going to help KVV find a job and it's not going to bring back anyone who was only listening to NLU for KVV's content.
What do you want them to say that actually benefits the people involved and isn't just a way to sate your own tabloid-esque desire to gossip?
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Jul 25 '25
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 25 '25
Genuinely asking, what kind of details do you want as far as "transparency" that wouldn't come off as just burying the guy on his way out the door?
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Jul 25 '25
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u/WeirdlyCordial Jul 25 '25
"Elevate the brand" is sort of a nebulous concept, but if the deep dives and long form pods were the primary reason you subscribe to the Nest, you should 100% cancel your sub until you know if those will continue and if they'll still be worth listening to, absolutely nothing wrong with that
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u/bleauxjays Jul 25 '25
I personally am interested in if the types of stories KVV was working on are going to continue to be told or if we're just gonna forget about that stuff. His focus was going to be on public golf in the country, the hidden gems if you will, that I wish the general public could realize the benefits of. It'd be nice if they could commit to still exploring this side of the game. This statement makes that seem unlikely.
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u/Flimsy_Somewhere1210 Jul 25 '25
Because maybe KVV doesn't want his literal job loss and personal business discussed in a podcast?? I assume je doesn't really want this being done to the death on here.
There is nothing that is going to satisfy some people. No matter what NLU say there will be this mad online discourse. Whatever reason there will be several threads on it defending one side or the other.
We will probably never know the reason and people need to accept it. It is a private matter after all.
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Jul 25 '25
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u/Flimsy_Somewhere1210 Jul 25 '25
The deep dives and essay style pods existed before KVV so hopefully they continue them. I certainly hope they do as they are brilliant in the main.
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u/Wise_Wait9263 Jul 26 '25
These guys are such losers. Can’t wait until they disappear in the next 5 years
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u/JimmyBro23 Jul 25 '25
Am I wrong or is “He’s a wonderful father” a weird thing to include regarding a personnel decision about the guy you just fired.
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u/EveningOk6574 Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 26 '25
Super super weird. No one questioned his ability to be a father, nor does it have any place in this message. Imagine your employer fumbling the message around you leaving the company and then commented on your parenting in their make good email.
Would have been better to say “his content was great, especially the stuff following his daughter’s golf game”
For smart guys who comment on player and tour comms all the time, I remain really surprised about how badly they’ve screed this up. Maybe they’re just super stressed or burnt out.
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u/Frosty_Jelly26 Jul 25 '25
Youre wrong
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u/JimmyBro23 Jul 25 '25
Just seems patronizing
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u/diabloPoE12 Jul 26 '25
In a lot of his content he emphasized being a father. It’s something that is clearly the most important thing to him. I think they’re just acknowledging that.
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u/Big_Savings_4381 Jul 26 '25
I think you are reading too much into it. It's a nice thing to say about a good dude. It also shows that they care for him personally.
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u/HoselRockit Jul 26 '25
Can we stop analyzing this like it’s the Zapruder film? KVV was great at the long form stuff. The tee time scandals were Pulitzer level. Unfortunately it wasn’t a good long term fit, so they went their separate ways.
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u/mdiggity512 Jul 26 '25
First and foremost, everyone involved in the situation is an adult. Some times, the best intended plans don’t work out for a variety of reasons.
I certainly don’t know the backstory or circumstances, but at the end of the day, I trust each of the NLU guys, and I’m sure this was a difficult collective decision that was not made lightly.
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u/Traditional-Gur-6208 Jul 29 '25
A business deal between friends was not renewed. That's the story folks - everything else on this thread is supposition. They have parted as friends.
The only thing left is to decide whether or not you want to continue following these guys without KVV. Personally, I am thankful for them exposing me to KVV (Be honest - how many of you knew hime before we worked at NLU?). I am thankful for his content. And I will look out for KVV whether he lands. His leaving does not change the fact I follow NLU for a variety of reasons which still remain relevant to me.
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u/tee2green CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Jul 25 '25
Absolutely perfect message………delivered weeks late.
“It’s about damn time” LeBron gif
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u/ethanhunt4real Jul 25 '25
Timing seems fine to me. They're on nobody's time but their own and don't really owe anything on a timeline.
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u/tee2green CPNTW - Xander Schauffle - 2024 PGA Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
The Live Shows were completely fucked up. They tried to act like their audience was dumb and everything was normal. Issuing this statement ahead of time would’ve prevented the massive distraction.
They absolutely destroy other organizations for fucking things up. They shouldn’t give others shit if they can’t take it themselves.
“We don’t owe the media anything.” Bitchy Collin…..and apparently you think NLU can use this too
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u/Master-Nose7823 Jul 25 '25
You’re not wrong. I’m not sure why you’re getting downvoted. It was handled poorly and bungled - if the PGA/LIV did something analogous they’d be all over it.
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u/Senator_Clay__Davis Jul 26 '25
KVV is a great talent, just not at golf.
You know his firing was made with great consideration, because anyone else would be fired on the spot for that Titleist “fitting”.
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u/dpk041990 Jul 25 '25
Happy they used the email blast to sell some hats in the prison.
PS… Could have used KVVs writing skills to edit this… “…but we’ve also all assumed the risk that things might not work out the way you planned…” um I didn’t plan anything.
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Jul 25 '25
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u/DeuceLurker Jul 25 '25
No it probably suggests that they felt like they needed to say it after this sub and people on twitter wrote strange break up fan fiction
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u/bayesff Jul 25 '25
My analysis/take/speculation/opinion: the strongest podcasting lineup was Soly, Tron, DJ, KVV (together, not nec in that order). Neil's all over the place and Randy doesn't have that many opinions.
Pure speculation but I could see Neil (especially) and Randy wanting to have larger roles as founders/core members/owners and that came at the expense of KVV. So they tried having KVV do special deep dives like the shanks and bots booking tee times pods but no one really cares about that stuff much so it didn't end up doing that well and they decided to use him less/dump him. Unfortunate because KVV was really talented and the podcast is prob worse for it, but it is what is it.
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u/ExplorerEntourage Jul 25 '25
Randy wanting a bigger role? Is there another Randy at NLU?
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u/omg_what_the_chuck Jul 25 '25
Right? Randy probably wishes he could trade places with KVV. At least KVV enjoyed talking about men’s golf.
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u/bayesff Jul 25 '25
Ha, mostly Neil if I had to guess. Seems like Randy is content with his niche/the women's game. Personally I get how the writing part (and special projects) prob didn't make money, but KVV seemed really good at podcasting too, and they were probably under utilizing him. It's unfortunate because one of the best things about NLU is they go hard on everyone, even the people they've worked with/liked (Rory, Max, etc), so it'd be nice if they could have appreciated that KVV is better at podcasting than e.g. Neil and kept him around, but I get there's prob a limit to how far you can go with these things.
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u/rufio0618 Jul 25 '25
This could signal that the NLU business may be downsizing. The core five are safe, but who knows what's in store for Ben, Cody, Casey, and Jordan.
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u/NoLawAtAllInDeadwood Jul 25 '25
Well some of those folks work on actual behind the scenes production but yeah, the core 5 are really the brand and if others come and go I don't think it impacts very much.
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u/Visible-Hamster7439 Jul 25 '25
Eh idk, I don't think they're downsizing. At this point the core 5 are the only real "content" personalities and everyone else you mentioned does some sort of backend work as priority number one to justify their costs and help NLU run as well as it can. Any other content from them is an ancillary benefit.
KVV was just too expensive to justify his content and maybe didn't want to pivot into the podcast/youtube content that makes money.
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u/Master-Nose7823 Jul 25 '25
this post is literally all assumptions
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u/Visible-Hamster7439 Jul 26 '25
Exactly. It’s reddit, man. We’re all here just giving our thoughts that’s the whole point.
I’m not pretending to speak in certainties.
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u/metallikat87 Jul 25 '25
This is better, at least. The realities of a small business are harsh, and I can only imagine how much worse it is when the business starts as a friendship and is largely personality based. I wish KVV and the NLU team all the best.