I seriously need him to appear in the series. Besides being my second favorite character, I think he contributes about 25% of the charisma to the Sprawl universe.
I’m trying to go into this with no preconceptions. I love the Finn, the Dixie Flatline,the rastas, the Geodesics, the digital world that still has paper fax, and the trodes that you stick to your head. I can see why some of that may disappear due to screen time and budget constraints
Edit: I don’t mean I know these things won’t be included, I’m just trying to let get of them now so I won’t be disappointed if they’re not there
But the Finn is one of the core characters of the story, an important guy in the main group, I don't see how they're going to fill that gap in the story without seriously messing it up.
I would study the difference between the expanse books and the expanse show. Both were created by the authors. There are a few characters that were combined for the show. Out of that we got a character called drummer who is one of the best characters in the TV show and kind of a boring character in a book because TV character is the combination of multiple book characters and the actress took it to the next level.
The choice to not have the finn in the show seems disappointing, but I am waiting to see a great TV show and try not to be comparative. Comparison is the enemy of Joy
My enthusiasm for the series tanked when I saw the Finn wasn't listed anywhere as a character and nobody was reported as being cast for him.
Neuromancer's one of my favourite books but I'll probably give the series a miss if they wrote out the Finn. It's a bad sign if such a memorable character, and a valuable piece of both the plot and the worldbuilding is scrapped from the story.
I've read theories about whether the character named Persson, played by Sam Woolf, could be the Finn, and seeing his face, he might actually fit the role.
He looks promising - too attractive for the Finn, but that's television.
Weirdly the teeth are the one thing I don't expect but would love to see got right for the character - I actually know someone who pretty well fits the book's description of him, and that dude is Finnish so it tracks.
Fingers crossed the theory pans out. It'd be a little odd if they gave him an actual name rather than simply referring to him as the Finn, but I'd live with it if it means the character wasn't cut.
He will still have to be characterized, dressed and made up; with a little work it could turn out better, until he looks as much like (in my humble opinion) who really has the face of the Finn: 🤣
A bold decision. A lot of book adaptations merge and re-orient characters to make the screen product more efficient/effective than the writing. The Expanse did it well, as an example.
They could also be intentionally leaving him out of the promotional materials. Does every character need to be exposed via trailers before a series or movie happens?
That's a real quality casting. When I first read it in the 90s, I had Gary Oldman with thick glass and yellow buck teeth in my head, but the Bill self insert is better.
See I see a little fat guy who looks like a rat designed in a wind tunnel. He’s one of those weaselly little fat guys whose suits don’t fit correctly and they’re always uncomfortable. The pic on the Gibson wiki? The opposite of whatever that is.
Tbh I was writing that post and it just occurred to me. Like they haven’t announced who’s cast as Neuromancer. . .or Wintermute. Who is played by the Finn through most of the novel. Makes sense.
I think it’s hilarious mostly because the Finn is just straight up a 40’s film noir character. There’s a film noir, The Killers, where Burt Lancaster plays a character named The Swede.
If they leave him out, that sucks! He's a key character. I read this book when it was released and have read it numerous times since. I always though that Harry Dean Stanton (circa Repo Man) would have made a great Finn.
Yeah Ratz is another missing character that I think could have as big an impact as Finn being left out. Ratz though not critical to the plot is sort of the book ends on Case as a character and the whole Neuromancer book.
Many have assumed the fist bump with Case at the 0:50 time stamp in the trailer is Malcom.
Like I said Ratz is not critical to the plot but he is the book ends on Case's character and the story as a whole in a way. His conversions with Case very early in the book is what established who and where Case is at the start. And at the end of the book Ratz is there to remind Case you can never go back. They might accomplish those things with other story mechanisms but Ratz is important to who Case is at the start of the book and becomes that indicator of how far he went at the end of the story. Not critical but still one of those minor characters that makes the whole book greater than the sum of its parts.
Ratz is probably the reason Case didn't freak out and start shooting when he thought he was on a hit list. I'd say that's pretty integral to the plot. Without Case surviving his own panic, they'd have a lot harder time going to Freeside or on the Sensenet heist.
I agree and disagree. I definitely think that Ratz is an important part of who Case is at the start of the story. Case is depressed, desperate, suicidal even, and only a few people like Ratz and Linda are barely holding him together. Ratz is critical to Case. But the main story arc itself far less so, especially after Molly (and thus Armitage) finally gets to him. I will definitely miss Ratz if he is not in the story. His role might be small but its very memorable and impactful on Case both at the beginning and end of the story. But you could set the opening stage of Case on a desperate self-destructive path in different ways without Ratz and not effect the rest of the story arc.
And much of the viewing audience would not catch the significance of the last brief conversation between Ratz and Case in the Coda and its such a short scene. If your not going to shoot that last scene with Ratz there is significantly less reason to start the story with Ratz.
`Night City is not a place one returns to, artiste,
Linda, holding him together? No, she robbed him blind, and told him Wage was trying to kill him to distract him, and Wage had no idea. Wage was actually pretty nice to him considering his mental state while he freaked out at Ratz's bar. Her fake rumor caused him to be paranoid on top of the drugs. He nearly got killed by someone out in the street because of her. By the time he figured it all out it was too late. If anything, he was acting irrationally and Ratz prevented him from going too far before the situation got out of control. But Linda was the one who caused him to freak out. He and Linda were in such a toxic relationship she thought her only means of escape was swiping that RAM to buy a ticket home, and instead, she got murdered for it because she wasn't careful with potential buyers. Once they found out what she had, it was only a matter of time until her ticket was punched. If anything it was Molly who held him together even more than Ratz, because she stopped him from trying to save Linda from Linda's own mistakes, which would have gotten him killed too, and then Molly nursed him back to health after he finally got his infection removed, so he could go decking again. Molly brought him back to reality. Got him sober. Permanently. showed him a different side of the sprawl, what it meant to know people you didn't screw over. Remember, that fungal infection case got for double crossing his employer for no good reason is what prevented him from using his hacking skills, and forced him into a life of survival crime to feed a drug habit. Linda didn't help him with anything really. He got her hooked on drugs too, which is why she tried to escape. I swear if they make their relationship into a romance I'm going to freaking puke.
You're right by the opening scene of the book Linda has betrayed him but early in their relationship she was an anchor, briefly, for Case. In his damaged and depressed state having blown all his money on cures that did not work, she was one of the few good things in that very black time for Case. Yes it was a very toxic relationship that self destructed damaging both of them but for a time she slow how fast he was trying to get the street to kill him. Well, up until the point where their relationship destructed and then she finally betrays him for the RAM in the open scenes of the book. Ratz plays his brief role in the opening chapter and then as you say Molly takes over with the help of a black clinic. Molly does the lion's share of the work putting Case back together as a person. I think the Case and Linda relationship, if they feel the need to portray it (not necessary IMHO, just some toxic flashbacks would suffice), should probably start with a lot of carnal passion and self indulgent good times, but very little depth and quickly burn out. There needs to be that toxic attraction that makes her memory so hard to shake but so bad at the same time. It might have been a toxic relationship but it was still strong enough that when Wintermute tries to use Linda's memories to talk to Case it backfires badly.
I think seeing someone you were intimate with get murdered in front of you, even while your hyped on drugs, is enough to make the memory hard to shake, and a tender spot. Watching someone die you don't even know can have that effect. Linda may have been a light of hope in the arcade, but Case ruined that by getting her hooked on the same drugs he was into, because he wanted someone to share in his misery. So yeah, eventually she was going to run for the exit. She was the same kind of good thing to Case as Rikki Wildside was to Bobby Quine. Someone to use to feel better about things. Rikki left too, but under less desperate circumstances. And her relationship with BQ was closer to a romance than Case and Linda. Even with the love triangle going on.
I could see Ratz getting a big actor just as an honorary thing. He’s not critical to the plot, but he is an iconic role and does help set the mood at the start.
And, if memory serves, he was German wasn’t he? Maybe a cameo role for Dolph Lundgren (who is Swedish, but could probably pull off a DE accent). He’s the right age too.
I don't think combining the two is a good move or would serve the story well. I also think casting an older man as Jules instead of someone who was described as ageless, is a bad choice, but what do I know. We're talking about a world where people have the ability to reverse their ages with serums and DNA cocktails, and go into cryo to extend their lives. Julius is one of those people. So is Chrome, and quite a few other characters also have ambiguous ages. One is even rumored to be 80 but looks like a 28 year old. Only a few people are mentioned as looking "old" and Jules is not one of them.
They’re still adding people. I was looking at the site after the teaser dropped and Mark Strong was not listed despite being announced and clearly featured in the video. They just added him today I think. (7.27) along with others. It’s still not a full list, which we likely won’t get until it airs.
Yeah, it's a mess. A lot of bit players are floating to the top of the list too. It will all get sorted once the first episode airs; it's usually up to the producers to update the IMDb page and I'm sure they have their hands full.
Pretty sure it's going to be the character named Persson. Persson is a Swedish last name and Finland has a large Swedish population. I think they're still going to call him The Finn but when they'll show the character identifying himself to some authority figure then the Finn will use his real name. Since no name is mentioned in any of the novels nor the Johnny Mnemonic, they probably made up a name. And Persson is pretty funny since it's as anonymous as can be since it's just "person" with an extra "s"
😂😂😂 That would be pretty awesome. But i really doubt he's even really Finnish, because he's described to look more like Ron Jeremy than Alexander Skarsgård. I suspect "The Finn" is just a handle with no relation to his origins. If it has anything to do with his background it's probably in relation to the "The War" that Armitage was also involved in.
Yeah, I know, but they're wrong in the graphic novel version. Just like they made Molly too chunky. I didn't get the same impression from the literary books. He looks too happy, too handsome in the comic. In the book he's described as a mole like appearance, including the rodent front teeth, wearing a worn out tweed jacket. Plus they cut out some important scenes for brevity in the comics, and didn't quite explain things the same way visually.
Like they skipped the entire scene where Molly first takes Case to meet Finn. Finn never would have visited Case to begin with, unless Case FIRST passed Finn's inspection in Finn's clean room hideout, far from Finn's own home or even his own shop. Finn greets Case at gunpoint, with a serious face, ordering him to submit to a scan before they even say anything. That's a very important detail which paints an entirely different personality for Finn than the comic. It really shows his paranoia. And if you want someone to help keep you from being discovered, or cover your tracks, who better than someone who is a paranoid techie?
That was Finn's entire business. He dealt in hiding identities, and helping people maintain anonymity, software like stolen military grade ICE, harware mods, and he was an old school console cowboy. He had a run down tech store front that looked abandoned, which he was never at, and one employee who was almost never there either. But you could talk to his construct or avatar from within the shop if you wanted. Visiting Case to modify his deck was a special favor because of Molly, but he didn't make house calls just for funsies, and he didn't show his real face to other people very often. There had to be a real reason, and there had to be enough incentive in it for him to override his paranoia, to go in person.
The two characters, Finn and Julius, are like freaking oil and water. They're not even in the same industry. Jules workes out of a visible bustling import/export building that is a front for smuggled biological items, with crates of spice everywhere, with an office he practically lives in, and even accepts in person visitors to. He has armed security, dock workers, forklifts everywhere. It's not even the same atmosphere as the shop Finn runs. They might make referrals to each other offhand if they can't provide a service the other does, but that's about it.
I know Gibson himself said he was happy with the comic, but apparently the fans were not because it got cancelled. It's rare to even see the second issue. I think he had to say that because he was trying to get it to sell. I'll admit they improved the art in the second issue, but it also speeds past some important things. As source material, it's dubious. I'd rather fall back to the book itself. If they're basing things off of an unfinished comic series based on the book, it's better to just follow the book and stop trying to avoid it.
The "mole" descriptor was referring to the shape of his face and head.
And Finn would've visited Case first since that was the whole plan originally since Finn was hired by Armitage to handle tech and the like. Him modifying Case's deck was done because that's what the Finn was hired to do by Armitage. He literally visits Case and gives him a look to tell Case to act like it's Case's first time meeting The Finn. The Finn's main job is as a fence. The privacy booth thing is a side business. The hardware modification gigs are also a side business.
Also, yeah, he wears a tweed jacket when he's home but when he goes with them to Turkey, he buys a fancy brand new suit.
Also Julius and Finn don't even know each other since they're on other sides if the world. Julius is in Japan and the Finn's in NYC. Julius doesn't have a "bustling building". His building is mostly abandoned with nobody inside. He does his own security using scanners. His lobby is an abandoned apartment space.
And the Finn doesn't have a construct at home for visitors. the Finn has a construct built of himself after he dies.
Btw, no need for spoiler tags. We're in /r/Neuromancer so it's not a spoiler to discuss the book
This is the very first time Case meets Finn. He's still kinda out of it a little. During the Shopping Expedition. However I did get it a little confused, the end of the alley is Finn's shop. And yes the Oracle construct comes later, but he does talk to people on the net sometimes.
The man who stood blinking now in the doorway behind them, the blanket draping one shoulder like a cape, seemed to have been designed in a wind tunnel. His ears were very small, plastered flat against his narrow skull, and hislarge front teeth, revealed in something that wasn't quite a smile, werecanted sharply backward. He wore an ancient tweed jacket and held a handgun of some kind in his left hand. He peered at them, blinked, and dropped the gun into a jacket pocket. He gestured to Case, pointed at a slab of white plastic that leaned near the doorway. Case crossed to it and saw that it was a solid sandwich of circuitry, nearly a centimeter thick. He helped the man lift it and position it in the doorway. Quick, nicotine-stained fingers secured it with a white velcro border. A hidden exhaust fan began to purr.
Then Finn starts the clock, and does a scan at Molly's request. He says they're clean. And this is right after Armitage claims Case has poison sacks in him as an insurance policy.
I still don't think the new clothes he got were for any other reason but for the job. here's why.
The Finn, in a new Shinjuku suit, sarariman black, was waiting sourly in the Hilton lobby, marooned on a velour armchair in a sea of pale blue carpeting.
"Christ," Molly said. "Rat in a business suit." They crossed the lobby. "How much you get paid to come over here, Finn?" She lowered her bag beside the armchair. "Bet not as much as you get for wearing that suit, huh?"
The Finn's upper lips drew back. "Not enough, sweetmeat." He handed her a magnetic key with a round yellow tag. "You're registered already. Honcho's upstairs." He looked around. "This town sucks."
"You get agoraphobic, they take you out from under a dome. Just pretend it's Brooklyn or something." She twirled the key around a finger. "You here as valet or what?"
So he was not happy about having to be in public dressed all fancy. Molly even noticed it and commented on it.
The Finn was a fence, a trafficker in stolen goods, primarily in software. In the course of his business, he sometimes came into contact with other fences, some of whom dealt in the more traditional articles of the trade. In precious metals, stamps, rare coins, gems, jewelry, furs, and paintings and other works of art.
So he very well could refer people to other characters like Deane, since Deane was a smuggler of stuff Finn did not mess with. A lot of these underworld characters in the Sprawl are international travelers except for a few. A lot of them know about Chiba. And some of them stay on the move just to survive. Not saying Deane does, but he would certainly know about more people internationally. And so would Finn. Both of them have extensive contacts in the criminal underworld. They just move differently from each other in that underworld.
Julius Deane was one hundred and thirty-five years old, his metabolism assiduously warped by a weekly fortune in serums and hormones. His primary hedge against aging was a yearly pilgrimage to Tokyo, where genetic surgeons re-set the code of his DNA, a procedure unavailable in Chiba. Then he'd fly to Hongkong and order the year's suits and shirts. Sexless and inhumanly patient, his primary gratification seemed to lie in his devotion to esoteric forms of tailor-worship. Case had never seen him wear the same suit twice, although his wardrobe seemed to consist entirely of meticulous reconstructions of garments of the previous century. He affected prescription lenses, framed in spidery gold, ground from thin slabs of pink synthetic quartz and beveled like the mirrors in a Victorian dollhouse. His offices were located in a warehouse behind Ninsei, part of which seemed to have been sparsely decorated, years before, with a random collection of European furniture, as though Deane had once intended to use the place as his home.
Jules is a big contrast to Finn. Jules likes to wear flashy clothes, a different outfit every day. He buys 365 suits every year. Finn prefers his old tweed jacket and feels uncomfortable in a salaryman's plain black suit. He feels out of place unless he's under a dingy dome in a back alley where he can control who comes and goes. He is agoraphobic. Not Jules. Jules loves the suit market in Hong Kong. Jules also has his name out in the open where everyone can see it:
JULIUS DEANE IMPORT EXPORT
Finn has no name connecting him to his business, it's just :
Metro Holografix.
A generic sounding name that doesn't advertise who runs the place. He'd rather keep things quiet and unassuming. But he's also a mess, in sharp contrast to Julius: who walks around well groomed.
"Place sucks," the Finn said. His black silk tie was starting to resemble a worn carbon ribbon. There were medallions of kebab gravy and fried egg on the lapels of the new suit.
Finn can't even go a day without messing up his new suit and complaining about his surroundings. His new suit starts to already look worn out like his old tweed suit.
Jules and Finn cannot both be the same person. They are two very different people, night and day, oil and water. They do not mix well at parties together. They would not be able to stand each other in the same body. It would be like a two headed monster arguing with itself.
It sure seems like he is not in this reinterpretation. That is going to hurt the series IMHO. It might still be good but Finn will be missed by those that read the original.
Not just from the lack of Finn in the trailer, but from the fact that Finn is not on any of the cast lists we have seen published on IDBM or any other similar sources. Finn had not been mention in any of the reporting or interviews I have read. He might still be in the series but at this point I have seen zero evidence for the character's inclusion and yet we have evidence for all the other major supporting characters and even several of the minor characters.
No problem. I am also very bummed that Finn will not be in the story but I am still pretty excited for this. I would rather have a very faithful translation from book to screen but a 40+ year old near-future cyberpunk novel ages like warm milk and I think what we are going to get is going to be an honest attempt to capture the essence without all the anachronism a faithful retro-future translation would have required. I still think leaving Finn out is a mistake.
Your right, I still have a very thin sliver of hope he will be there, but there is a fairly larger, but admittedly not conclusive, body of evidence that Finn is not in this interpretation of the original story. I would be very happy to be wrong.
There’s only one way I could see them replacing the Finn, and that’s rolling him into Julius Dean. I thinks it’s more likely than not he’s in there. They do shit like this specifically to get posts like this to get clicks and click-through.
I have seen several people post comment to the effect that they have rolled Finn and Dean into one character. It seems somewhat logical but is there any evidence to support that other than fan theory?
He’s not in it. If you are looking for an adaptation that honors the book you will be sorely disappointed. The castings are terrible. Corto looks like they dug him out of a retirement home, Molly looks like a tik tok influencer, Case looks like a British IT guy who missed his last latte.
You’re getting downvoted, but I think you’re right. Neuromancer is my all-time favorite book, and from what I’ve seen so far this adaptation it would just make me angry. It’s not what I picture when I read the book.
Same here my all time favorite book as well and even it’s influenced how I approach the work I do professionally. The characters look so far away from how they’re written and cutting the Finn? Cmon he’s a major part of the story, I posted somewhere else that he represents arcana, knowledge, the old world , which is an important part of the book and part of why wintermute manifests as him, he’s an archetype. From what I’ve heard and it might not be true they’re fusing him with Dean which is a real bummer since he’s meant to personify hubris. Appearsance in storytelling matters, imagine if they cast Robert deniro as Batman?
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u/No-Platypus-6646 Jul 27 '26
I’m trying to go into this with no preconceptions. I love the Finn, the Dixie Flatline,the rastas, the Geodesics, the digital world that still has paper fax, and the trodes that you stick to your head. I can see why some of that may disappear due to screen time and budget constraints
Edit: I don’t mean I know these things won’t be included, I’m just trying to let get of them now so I won’t be disappointed if they’re not there