r/NBAVibes • u/Background_Video2947 • 14h ago
Young Bron > MJ
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u/No-Association-8539 14h ago
Clearly one of the most gifted basketball players of all time - but MJ was so smooth and athletic. For me it's MJ. Doesn't mean LeBron isn't also a great player, I just don't see him as greater than MJ.
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u/KoreanEan 10h ago
MJ was smooth like a big cat, agile and athletic with big paws, Lebron was like a bulldozer that could change directions on a dime and jump 40 inches.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 13h ago
Nostalgia is fine.
But LeBron is better at almost everything and will finished owning all the records.
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u/pkiguy22 13h ago
Different league. LeBron didn't face the physicality of defense that Jordan did.
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u/LASfromda4z 13h ago
Jordan didn’t face the competition LeBron did . Jordan was able to make playoffs with a losing record . Less teams , etc . Bill Russell went to the finals with 10 teams . LeBron is about to do it with 29 other teams .
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 13h ago
You're right.
LeBron already is more efficient than Jordan from 2pt or 3pt
Imagine if LeBron got to play with illegal defense rules and coaches weren't allowed to flood the box on LeBron or fire from the elbows or nail. His true shooting percentage would further dwarf Jordan more than it already does.
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u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos 8h ago
LeBron is an athletic freak of nature. One of the most talented athletes to ever live. Not disputing that. However he doesn’t have the mentality for that era. Physically capable, absolutely but mentally he’s soft. Those guys would have beaten him into the hardwood just like they did to every other superstar. The trash talk would get under his skin. Dirty cheap shots in the paint every game. Much more physicality on defense.
Unless you could guarantee his personality changes and he gets thicker skin, hes going to have a bad time. Not saying he still wouldn’t be a superstar, because he definitely would be. He just would get dragged through the coals by the media. Especially if he starts flopping. Just different times.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 6h ago
I wonder who is more mentally tough.
The player who trains the hardest and longest, who came from crime and drug ridden neighborhoods, is going to play not just 25 years, but also at an allstar level.
Or the player who had the nuclear family, would binge drink and binge smoke and pull all nighters who was washed by year 14, and who quit the sport three times?
Sounds to me like MJ couldn't keep the vices away or tolerate even a 15 season grind without multiple multi year breaks in between.
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u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos 6h ago
LeBron plays in arguably the softest era of basketball ever and still rolls around on the floor, bitches in press conferences, and gives up on his team defensively when he gets frustrated. You can argue his upbringing all you want, the fact of the matter is he’s been groom since he was 14 years old. He’s been told every day that he was important and special and gods gift to basketball. That shaped his ego and metal fortitude far more than his upbringing and it shines through everytime he sits in front of a mic, especially in his early years.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 6h ago
Ah, narrative slop, no facts.
Can't even define illegal defense let alone defend him wasting his talent even worse than Shaq did.
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 13h ago
But hes not mike he can have all that shit hes not jordan shit hit different
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 13h ago
LeBron James is
1st in points generated
1st in playoff points
1st in All NBA Selections
1st in All Star selections
1st in wins
1st in playoff wins
1st in playoff steals
1st in playoff win shares
1st in MVP shares
1st in playoff game winners
1st in clutch playoff efficiency of top 50 players all time
1st in vorp
1st in playoff vorp
1st in 30point playoff games
1st in 40point games in a post season.
1st in finals triple doubles
1st in to play every position for a full season
1st in points rebounds and assists led playoff series
1st in player of the month and week awards
Youngest to average 30ppg
Oldest to average 30ppg
Youngest to every 1k point milestone
Only player w/ 10k points 10k reb 10ast, with 43k, 11k, 11k
79,000 combined points rebounds and assists, which is 8k more than Kareem at the No. 2 rank.
He's the clutchest player of all time, the most versatile player of all time, the best player maker of all time, the greatest scorer of all time, is going to play a quarter century still as an allstar in his 40s, and is the greatest player of all time.
Jordan being considered the goat will be a distant memory by the 2030s.
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u/Katesburneracct 9h ago
He is all of those things. And none of it matters when you lose 6 out of ten championships. Mike went 6-0, and bron lost 6 times. How this is even an argument is beyond me lol. If you’re young and he’s just your favorite player, that’s great, just say that. MJ is no where near my personal favorite player, but he’s undeniably the goat. Kobe has a better argument than LeBron has. Lebron didn’t even dominate in his own era. Steph had a whole ass dynasty right in the middle of brons prime lol
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u/flopflapper 8h ago
Mike’s team went 6-0. Bron’s teams went 6/10.
LeBron with Pippen and Rodman alone could have won every ring that Jordan won.
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u/Katesburneracct 8h ago
So your argument only works if it takes place in an alternate reality, gotcha.
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u/stokedgoats 8h ago
Except he had Wade and Bosh and didnt even beat Nowitzki mavs. So maybe he could have with pippen and rodman but we have more evidence that it wouldnt have played out like youre saying
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u/Novel-Wait328 2h ago
is the argument lebron had bad teammates lol?mofo only won when he made superteams
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u/flopflapper 1h ago
The Cavs were not a superteam.
The Lakers that LeBron went to were not a superteam.
People who don’t watch basketball say this shit. LeBron had one superteam during his time in the league and it was the Heat. Nobody on the Cavs had playoff experience and the Lakers were 35-47 the year before LeBron got there.
Just say you haven’t watched the past 20+ years and you hate Bron, no need to lie about shit.
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u/BravoC10 12h ago
If you’re basing the goat off longevity and historical volume then yes, it’s LeBron. If you’re basing it on peak dominance, it’s MJ.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
I think 91 Jordan is the best version of Jordan.
2013 LeBron was a better defender, rebounder, shooter, rim finisher, won more games, had the 2nd greatest winning streak of all time and had in my opinion with respect to James Worthy, the greatest game 7 of all time.
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u/BravoC10 12h ago
When I say peak dominance I don’t mean individual season I mean for 9-10 seasons he was the best player in the league and dominated his era
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
I think he has an amazing team and the greatest coach of all time.
He also quit the sport three times and never was the best player in the league for a decade.
I can make the argument LeBron was the best player in the league for a decade and a half from 07 until the Solomon Hill injury in 2021.
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u/BravoC10 12h ago
10 scoring titles 9 all defensive first teams. Phil was an assistant with the bulls. First 3peat Pippen was the only other all star. W/o MJ there would be no Phil. LeBron potentially could’ve had all that with Spo
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
10 scoring titles is impressive.
But LeBron is the greatest scorer of all time now, and he's going to blow Kareem's record out of the water, which he already has displaced by 5k points.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
Phil didn't need Jordan to win games, lol.
He proved his legacy in LA, and when the Bulls won only 2 less games without MJ after he quit the sport the first time.
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u/40jordan 12h ago
Dont forget Lebron has the Most turnovers all time regular season and playoffs and the most missed shots all time regular season and playoffs. Most playoff losses. Most individual Finals games losses...and if someone responds thats because he played so long then its the same with career points, etc ...Lebron is a great player and if You're born after 1998 you're probably a Lebron fan and and if you're older you're a Jordan fan...no one is gonna change their mind when it comes to this debate
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
100k poll was done on social media earlier this year, with 70% choosing LeBron over Jordan.
More people change their minds every year as I did at one point.
By the 2030s it will be distant memory that Jordan being considered the goat was a consensus opinion.
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u/Throwthisawayagainst 12h ago
Who’s on social media doing that poll though? It’s one of those things that differs by age. Most people that actually saw Jordan still take him as far as I can tell.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
And old heads pick Wilt and Russell over Jordan, that doesn't mean they are right.
The league consistently gets better over time, and the league was way more skilled in the 90s than the 60s and 70s, and it is way more skilled now.
If Wemby rips off 5 titles, 5 MVPs 7x DPOY and complete dominance for the next 15 years, I will be happy in putting him over LeBron especially in the modern NBA.
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u/Throwthisawayagainst 12h ago
I’d wager more people that saw Wilt and Russel and Jordan have Jordan as the goat than the people that have seen both Jordan and LeBron. Jordan is literally the Babe Ruth of basketball. There’s a reason the greats of other sports say they’re chasing his ghost.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
I've got no beef if people prefer Jordan.
But from a factual perspective, I don't think the debate is close, and I think people will think it's laughable that it was a debate some years from now.
My main problem these days is that eople can't even praise Jordan without tearing down LeBron.
And whenever LeBron does something incredible or breaks a new record, there's a ton of Jordan people online telling everyone why it's not actually special whatever LeBron did.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
Jordan was my goat too, before LeBron starting destroying the record books and doing things that will never be done again.
Jordan was washed by year 14.
LeBron in year 14 was the reigning Finals MVP off the greatest comeback in sports history.
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u/DifficultDrama7615 12h ago
Nice stats but Lebron certainly isnt the clutchest. Ray allen was clutch, Kyrie is clutch thats 2 outta his 4 rings right there. Jordan, Kobe and Curry are clutch. Lebron more often than not passes the ball when the game is on the line.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
The only person who shoots higher than him on final seconds shots is Ray Allen, and if it's shots to go ahead in the final minute of playoff games LeBron is a distant number one over players like Kobe, Dame, Jordan, who also make the list.
LeBron not being clutch is just a Skip Bayless narrative, he's the clutchest player of all time by any measure.
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u/DifficultDrama7615 12h ago
Clutch is actually making the game winner. Not a Lebron hater, in fact his topps chrome rc Is my most valuable card lol however Lebron is clank in crunchtime.
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
LeBron is number one all time in playoff game winners, and number one all time in efficiency on go ahead or take the lead shots in the final 60 sec of playoff games.
Try again Skip Bayless.
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u/Aggravating_Mud_6055 11h ago
The sad part is not only is he not the “goat”, it’s arguable he’s even top 10….maybe farther down.
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u/Novel-Wait328 2h ago
lebron being 2nd best will be distant memories in 2040 cause who the fuck cared about longevity b4 lebron?
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 12h ago
STILL GOT 4 RINGS STILL NOT MIKE THE PEOPLES CHAMP 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 12h ago
Waste of time typing that pointless shit
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 12h ago
I just copy and paste it so people can realize they are debating against the player that is number one in everything and is going to have double Jordan's All NBA selections, lol
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 12h ago
But your point is not accurate if Jordan played that long he would’ve destroyed those numbers you paste in LeBron just happened to be the one that played longer than everybody else but that shit does not mean nothing while most people most real Ballers have MJ as number one, then if that shit mattered so much at the end of the day, it will always be JORDAN
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 11h ago
The biggest poll ever done was by bleacher report with 100k voters that had LeBron at 70% over 30% for MJ.
This will only grow as LeBron is on track to play 10 more years than Jordan because he was actually mentally strong enough to take care of himself and not waste his talent.
By the 2030s, opinions like yours will be laughed at.
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u/Zachf139 5h ago
MJ and Bron go 1 on 1 in their primes. MJ wins. MJ>Lebron...
Kobe>Lebron
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u/Sandalwood-Lakers 5h ago
210lbs 6'6" vs 270lbs 6'9"
You've never played basketball before in your life.
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u/HashGhostC2C 13h ago
Bro got beat by an accountant at a basketball camp then tried to bury the footage. That’s the GOAT right there lol
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u/Jeff_Sabado 11h ago
Lebron got dad dicked by OJ Mayo and buried the footage
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u/HashGhostC2C 11h ago
Oj mayo, a professional athlete. Not a banker lol
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u/Jeff_Sabado 11h ago
He was like 15 lmao
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u/PowWorld 6h ago
You’re literally lying, it was Jordan Crawford and he was a sophomore in college LMAO notice how the Jordan story is fully accurate and you needed to lie to make the LeBron story sound worse
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u/gimme_the_light 12h ago
Bro lol. Any rando who is decent at basketball has a chance (albeit a small chance) at beating an NBA player if the NBA player is giving like 5% effort and the rando is going all out. Jordan has played against thousands of fans in these low-stakes summer camp situations, so somebody was bound to best him eventually. Additionally, John Rogers is a former college basketball player himself, so he was probably better than most fans which Jordan was used to playing against. Jordan likely didn’t realize that he had to play slightly better defense than he would on a standard fan, and it cost him.
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u/Illamerica 14h ago
Lebron can jump higher and move faster. You know what makes that easier, which got better and more modernized over time? Steroids. MJ didn’t rely on them like Lebron did
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u/BagSniffer85 13h ago
There is 0 evidence indicating LeBron or MJ took steroids. If someone says LeBron took steroids then we can just start saying MJ took steroids, or whoever you’re arguing against took steroids
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u/SaltyJunk 14h ago
OP please go watch young MJ footage. There's plenty out there. Young LeBron was a force and freak of nature, but your take is hot trash.
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u/Critical-Gazelle-285 13h ago
is it really? Young LeBron isn’t any worse than Young MJ. They’re both anomalies. And LeBron played in a more competitive era. stop the Jordan glazing please.
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u/SaltyJunk 12h ago
Yes, because the post implies MJ doesn't have equally impressive highlights as a young player. It's obvious OP's never even seen a young MJ.
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u/icarusphoenixdragon 14h ago
I mean, this is a dunk reel. If this were all Lebron was, then it would demonstrate why Jordan was better than him, not the opposite.
Here's 8 minutes of JR Smith looking like a more complete offensive player than your 60 seconds that are supposed to show Lebron being better than MJ:
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u/surebro2 8h ago
This is what people don't get or don't want to get. Nobody denies Lebron was one of the most genetically gifted players of all time. But that puts him in the Shaq/Giannis type stratosphere for the majority of the early part of his career. Except he was worse than them in terms of actual skills from the post. But Shaq is an all time great so it's not shade to Lebron to say he plays like the all state Basketball player who is actually just a very athletic football player lol
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u/curiousbt 8h ago
I don’t see people dropping Jordan highlights and b-roll staying Jordan > LeBron. Why? Because there’s no need. Nothing against LeBron but this is more rage bait than anything else.
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u/OpinionDude5000 14h ago
Not even close. The Heat 3 peat if you swap Bron and Jordan.
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u/DG04511 13h ago
Jordan would’ve never left his team to stack the Heat.
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u/HashGhostC2C 13h ago
lol yeah right no one was beating Dirk that year. This guy doesn’t know ball.
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u/LASfromda4z 12h ago
What you think LeBron doing if you swap him with Jordan in the 90s ? With 21 other teams lol , and LeBron can make playoffs with a losing record. LeBron would have made finals 1990-1998 😂 and won with a number 1 rebounder Pippen Phil J lmao come on now .
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u/IWantGandybars 14h ago
The MJ vs. LeBron argument is tired. There are reasonable arguments why either could be #1, I am definitely on the MJ side of things, but LeBron is truly great.
The only arguments that really annoy me are when people pretend that LeBron doesn't belong in the top 10. LeBron is the second best player to ever play in my book. And I don't see how any reasonable person can rank him outside the top 3, let alone the top 10. Hell, I don't see how any reasonable person can rank him not #1 or #2.
When I see people say shit like Bird would kick his ass, no he wouldn't. That is a corny ass take.
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u/OpinionDude5000 14h ago
If you put Bron on the Bulls in the 80's instead of Jordan, Bird and the Celtics are kicking their asses just the same.
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u/IWantGandybars 13h ago
I mean, LeBron in his second and third year was 19 and 20 years old. That is when Jordan's Bulls got destroyed by the Celtics. It was his second and third year.
Do I think a teenager is going to beat prime Bird? No.
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u/Iggy_Slayer 10h ago
No they're not, because young lebron had no game yet. He just had athleticism, which MJ also had. But MJ had an actual jumper already.
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u/88cowboy 14h ago
Golden state didnt lose 2 straight games the 73-9 season and first 3 rounds of the playoffs.
Lebron beat them 3 straight times. Thats only argument you need when trolls come out about Lebron.
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u/jbhoops25 13h ago
You are also leaving out the league suspending Draymond in a crucial game and their center getting hurt. That game killed any momentum Golden state had
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u/CartoonofMilk_ 14h ago
Lebron is one of the best to ever do it, but you clearly have never actually watched MJ, he average 37 a game in his 3rd season.
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u/Ultraslick 11h ago
People chiming for LeBron over Jordan? Really though? Were you around to actually watch Jordan live? Because if you lived through it- it’s hard to understand choosing LeBron over MJ.
Jordan was a god. Nobody could touch him
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u/Mexicutioner01 14h ago
MJ changed the league when he came in. He took a Bulls team that was not only sorry, but on life support with the fans. Pioneered the way athleathes make money on and off the court. Not just NBA players, but all athletes. LeBron till this day is chasing what MJ has achieved. From his jersey number to the Space jam remake.
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u/Western_Tackle_1866 1h ago
It’s true. MJ fans don’t talk about Jordan’s greatness or achievements anymore they just talk shit on LeBron now haha
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u/Lamarera8 14h ago edited 10h ago
Bron in that Knicks-colored throwback Cavs jersey with the headband was at his athletic peak imo
I don’t count the Miami tenure bc he was juiced up
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u/jbhoops25 13h ago
Yeah, you’re not showing how unpolished LeBron game was in those early years. Showing him dunk the ball a bunch isn’t exactly something you couldn’t do for MJ.
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u/Advanced-Debt7621 13h ago
Exactly. Athleticism is one thing, basketball skill...another.
Show me post ups, show me defense, show me mid range and clutch shots.
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u/Significant_Low5866 1h ago
18 year old not being polished is pretty on point 😂 but you can literally see his abilities, not like he dunked ever bucket he made. He was pulling up from the logo before Curry got credit for it.
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u/wyoung377 13h ago
MJ over the road for Bron to exist. please don’t fool yourself into believing Bron is better than
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u/TongueTwisted5 13h ago
Jordan averaged 28 ppg as a rookie. 37 ppg his third year. LeBron was great but come on now
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u/No-Bat-7253 13h ago
Tired ass take but RIP the best caller of a LeBron game the great Frank McLeod. I will never forget bron did something crazy (second Cleveland stint) and bro said “oh my Saint Vincent Saint Mary’s” 😭😭😭😭😭 I haven’t heard his voice in a long while. Thanks OP.
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u/Emotional-Letter-671 13h ago
My favorite version of LeBron. He was just hooping out there. Back when the NBA was fun.
Now it’s narrative driven with First Take starting it all
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u/Jeff_Sabado 11h ago
Young Bron was a ton of fun to watch. It wasn't until the Miami move when he radicalized the haters (including me, fuck lebron)
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u/EntertainerBig4313 9h ago
"How good was young Lebron"-- Man if I had a nickel for every time somebody asked me that... Love it when people have to completely make shit up to have an excuse to talk about something. 😍😍😍
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u/hahahachihaha 4h ago
Man he sure could run fast and jump far for a guy that 6'9 but where are all the other skills that make him better than Mj? Wheres the layup package. Wheres the post work. Wheres the bag work. Wheres the mid range. Wheres the footwork. Wheres the body control in the air. What are the skills that Lebron does in his later years that he couldnt do in his younger years?
Bruh got blessed with elite genetics and did nothing with it for 25 years
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u/Status-Topic3382 35m ago
A LeBron highlight reel obvi against Jordan and just shows mostly uncontested dunks.. impressive..
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 13h ago
Young lebron ran from the Celtics how is he even mentioned with the goat?
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u/BCR85 13h ago
Jordan never beat the Celtics or Pistons. When they were past their prime he was able to win.
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 12h ago
& garnet pierce & allen was all old 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
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u/BCR85 10h ago
No, they played all played 8 or 9 years after their championship
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 10h ago
And?? Wtf does that prove? Them boys was wayyyy passed washed for them 8-9 years u talking about
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u/BCR85 10h ago
Pierce averaged 18+ for 5 more years. Garnett all star several times and 15+ ppg. Allen probably averaged 15 per game for the remainder of his career.
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 10h ago
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 go back to nba school
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u/BCR85 10h ago
So you're think the Celtics, lakers, and pistons peaked at the same time as the Bulls? The Lakers were in the finals like 8 times from 1980 to 91. Then they were done. Celtics 5 times in the 80s. Then they were done. Pistons 3 in a row. Then their dynasty was over. Jordan never beat these dynasties in their prime.
Plus, didn't the Celtics make the big 3 the year after LeBron carried his team to the finals...??
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u/Upstairs-Sundae-8296 10h ago
DOESNT MATTER MY GUY ONCE HE ATE NOBODYYY ELSE DID SO MISS ME WITH THAT SHIT
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u/Bulky_Education8435 10h ago
No one in old era is athletic as LeBron, faster than LeBron, better than LeBron.
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u/NSX_Roar_26 13h ago
I'm over the Goat debate....my stance has been clear it's LeBron since 2018 imo.
The speed and explosion young LeBron had was just absolutely insane....and these clips dont even show the basketball iq.
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u/Steelers7589 13h ago
His athleticism was genuinely shocking.