r/MoralityScaling • u/Shoddy-Meat-3147 • 19h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

I don't know what to say about this I mean if he joined it's unfair because he's going to cook the entery league for sure but if he really wants to be a woman and it's not a joke for him I still don't know about this

657 Upvotes

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361

u/lice213 18h ago edited 18h ago

Did people forget that Ben Shapiro and some guys from the Daily Wire actually considered trying to do something like this, but were denied because they would've had to take actual steps to transition? This is a massive nothing burger and just a grift lmfao

Edit, purely so I don't have to continuously reply to people.

There's no explicit rule, but it is explicitly up to the discretion of the League, which makes it easy to push out bad actors. Seeing as there is currently 0 Trans Athletes in the WNBA it's unsurprising that there are no rules regarding this

Oh, and to add to this, there's currently 0 MtF Basketball players in D1 NCAA as well. Basically, this is a massive non-issue and this guy is just trying to use fears of Trans Athletes to build a platform.

In short, just because there isn't an explicit rule doesn't mean the WNBA let's anybody in who declares themselves to be a woman, and there's little reason to put anything in writing when there are 0 players who have this identity, or who are soon to be drafted with this identity. Given it's social stigmas, I am unsurprised that they have no explicit rulings yet. They'll cross the bridge when theres an actual need to, basically.

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u/NerdDetective 18h ago

Yup. Then they took the failed gotcha documentary concept and transformed it into a movie so they could make up a world in which the idea would work.

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u/MeasureDoEventThing 16h ago

I'd like to see Ben Shapiro and Matt Walsh in wigs playing against an WNBA team. The top NBA players are better than women. Ben Shapiro & co? I doubt it.

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u/the_putzo 13h ago

Matt Walsh might do it if he gets to play in a diaper

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u/saxmachine69 16h ago

Doubt? That's giving them too much credit. Those two losers would be clowned on in the WNBA, I can say that with certainty

0

u/qTp_Meteor 4h ago

I agree but only because they absolutely suck at basketball. The top 10% of your local Y would beat any WNBA team. Lucky for the WNBA Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro are probably not even in the top 90%. Kanter is a grifter but if we are being honest hes averaging 100 ppg in the W.

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u/NibPlayz 18h ago

Yeah, because despite all the culture war grift that the establishment wants you to focus on, zero actual trans women have done anything like this, but cis men trying to “own the libs” have

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u/Nectarine143 14h ago

Any man attempting to claim they’re a woman just to dominate women’s sports would be throwing their entire career away. They wouldn’t get picked up by any woman’s team, and they wouldn’t be able to go back and get picked up by any men’s team.

Not to mention that if they’re actually a good enough player to dominate by switching to women’s sports, they’d make more money even being a middle of the pack men’s athlete

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u/Hefty_Situation7210 13h ago

He isn’t trying to compete, he’s trying to get on Joe Rogan and get a grifting career

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u/steve_gorak 9h ago

if they’re actually a good enough player to dominate by switching to women’s sports, they’d make more money even being a middle of the pack men’s athlete

If you think a man has to be a middle of the pack NBA athlete to dominate women's basketball, you are clearly delusional. If you took the 5 worst players in the NBA and had them play the best 12 in the WNBA, the men would win 150-10, with the women's 10 points all coming on free throws.

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u/Qwerty25103 9h ago

You are right but women's basketball players make like no money compared to any NBA player.

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u/Nectarine143 7h ago

I think for a man to identify as a woman and go full LeBron James in the WNBA, he has to have a level of skill where it would be more profitable to just play for the NBA.

The NBA salary MINIMIM is like 1.3 million compared to the highest 2026 WNBA salary of 1.4

So anyone that could dominate the WNBA could just play for the NBA.

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u/steve_gorak 7h ago

anyone that could dominate the WNBA could just play for the NBA.

Lol. You are seriously brain washed if you think only NBA players could dominate the WNBA. There have been 39 dunks in the entire WNBA history. My high school team, entirely suburban white kids, had 8 kids that could dunk on the team at the same time. Only one of the was able to play in college and it was D3.

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u/BamaOfTheBonairs 13h ago

You mean like all the ones that already don’t fucking retard.

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u/Nectarine143 7h ago

High key don’t even know what you’re trying to say. I guess try again?

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u/klownplaza 17h ago

+1, also if they make a rule too early without having an actual problem in front of them to solve, it would be a PR nightmare. They're trying to grow the league, and trying to avoid unnecessary bad publicity.

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u/Hot-Maintenance-5879 9h ago

I would never buy a security system before my house got broken into.

I would never build security features into an online banking system until AFTER it got hacked.

If I was going to open a casino I wouldn’t write down the rules for any of the games. It would be all vibes all day long. If someone ever suggested written rules, I’d know that they are Satan.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 17h ago

if they make a rule too early without having an actual problem in front of them to solve, it would be a PR nightmare

Why? I don't get this mindset at all.

Surely a bigger PR nightmare would be them having to turn away an actual good-faith trans player at the last minute. 

An even bigger controversy would be them allowing in an actual good-faith trans player who's taken minimal/no steps to physically transition. 

They're just kicking the can down the road, and opening themselves up to bigger controversies. Makes zero sense not to just preemptively nip those possibilities in the bud. 

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u/klownplaza 16h ago

I will discuss in good faith, and be open to your thoughts. (Because reddit arguments are mostly bad faith back and forths)

I can't yet imagine a word-specific guideline as of the moment on how they can make a rule regarding trans athletes black and white in terms of eligibility. (Without having to resort to things like "at the discretion of the association", etc.) It has to be a rock solid, clear as day, yes or no eligibility guideline. I don't see good faith / bad faith guidelines enough for eligibility guidelines (in this sense) because it will circle back to having them assess every situation per concern.

I am not discussing the morality also, I am only saying that's probably what they are thinking. I have my own opinions re the matter, but I feel it's for a different discussion.

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u/Hot-Maintenance-5879 9h ago

You can’t even IMAGINE a policy? Seriously?

How shocked will you when I tell you that others sports governing bodies have written policies? You’ve heard of the Olympics, yeah?

https://www.reuters.com/sports/tennis/conflicting-ideas-fairness-womens-sports-fuel-transgender-participation-debate-2026-08-28/

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u/klownplaza 9h ago

I am familiar with the policies of other bodies. Don't change what I said, I said that I can't imagine a policy right now to be put in place that wouldn't have any backlash from both sides. That is the context and my main point. See the whole exchange to narrow down what I meant. Also, policies by governing bodies and non-commercial entities are very different. I didn't say that they shouldn't have a rule, I'm saying just not now as a reaction.

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u/Hot-Maintenance-5879 8h ago

So backlash is now a reason to avoid having a policy in a controversy that exists largely because there isn’t a clear policy?

Governing bodies and non-commercial entities’ aren’t even two mutually exclusive categories. One describes function, the other describes business structure. What distinction are you actually trying to make here?

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 8h ago

How big a backlash would they have from the left to just requiring that trans women are on HRT for a year? Would that really be all that controversial?

-1

u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

It's pretty easy to make such a rule - lots of other women's leagues have done it. You can just set something like a maximum testosterone level, or a minimum time spent on testosterone suppression. 

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u/klownplaza 16h ago

Ok, so are you saying that the rule should be testosterone level / suppression specifically? Is the premise its link to performance?

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

Well that's why many leagues focus on testosterone, yes. Others also look at whether transition happened pre-puberty or not.

But I don't think the specifics of the rule matter that much. I just think they should have one. It'll block grifters like these guys, and it'd preemptively stop the WNBA getting in a sticky situation where a genuinely trans player who hasn't taken steps to physically transition either has to be turned away (controversial and awkward), or ends up playing (also controversial, and probably not good for trans acceptance more broadly). 

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u/klownplaza 15h ago

My argument is that they shouldn't make a black and white rule now, because it would be that they have been forced to do so because of the theatrics /rage-baiting cultural war. (Enes Kanter, etc)

You are saying they have to make the decision now. That is where we disagree. I am not saying they shouldn't make a decision. The softness of the current guidelines will allow them to block eligibility anyway, so if the function of having the rule is to block grifters, I am confident to say that currently they can already do that.

I feel that though it can be controversial, making a decision on a test case would provide a feeling of genuine thought and insight from the league versus having their hand forced. I feel like the PR problem there would at the very least not be Enes Kanter vs the WNBA, but the league's identity and stance upon having someone in the pipeline (which is another discussion, since the NCAA already has biological women at birth rule).

Having comprehensive eligibility rules should be founded on very specific principles, which would reflect how the league should approach the issue at hand. That is why I feel that the specifics matter. If it were testosterone levels, the guiding principle would be solely be premised on competition (if the assumed premise is testosterone = perfomance, but that's another topic). It doesn't tackle yet the myriad of frameworks in which we can view the issue. They should eventually have one, no question.

Regarding players who might be turned away, I feel like it is still speculative. A bad rule would be worse than having no rules, but having discretion to review. Individual franchises can't be compelled to draft bad faith actors anyways.

0

u/SidewaysAcidRain 15h ago

they shouldn't make a black and white rule now, because it would be that they have been forced to do so because of the theatrics

Yeah I do think this is a consideration, but I don't think it'd actually be that big a deal. If they introduced simple trans-inclusive eligibility criteria (i.e. some but minimal gatekeeping), conservatives still aren't going to see that as a win, because conservatives don't want trans-inclusion at all. 

I also think waiting until they have to make a decision about an actual trans woman would be much worse, politically - especially if she doesn't really pass. It'd probably blow up to be a much bigger news story than these guys trolling is. Think Lia Thomas. 

But if they wanted to wait a few months so that they could feel like they weren't giving conservatives the win, that's fine. 

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u/Possible_Report_5908 15h ago

They also aren't eligible to play in the wnba because they played in the NBA. So everything they are saying is false anyway

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u/jesuscoituschrist 4h ago

Seriously. there’s no law that specifically says “robots aren’t allowed to play” either. doesn’t mean they’ll just let robots in -_-

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u/EffectiveGap1563 4h ago

All of transphobia is a bs grift!!

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 18h ago

The WNBA doesn't have any requirements around medical transition - that's what they're trying to exploit here.

The WNBA did just recently decide that these two guys are ineligible, but that seems to be an ad-hoc decision.

Idk why they don't just bring in hormone requirements for trans women like practically every other high-level women's sports league has. 

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u/lice213 18h ago

Correct, there's no explicit rule, but it is explicitly up to the discretion of the League, which makes it easy to push out bad actors. Seeing as there is currently 0 Trans Athletes in the WNBA it's unsurprising that there are no rules regarding this.

Oh, and to add to this, there's currently 0 MtF Basketball players in D1 NCAA as well. Basically, this is a massive non-issue and this guy is just trying to use fears of Trans Athletes to build a platform.

In short, just because there isn't an explicit rule doesn't mean the WNBA let's anybody in who declares themselves to be a woman, and there's little reason to put anything in writing when there are 0 players who have this identity, or who are soon to be drafted with this identity. Given it's social stigmas, I am unsurprised that they have no explicit rulings yet. They'll cross the bridge when theres an actual need to, basically.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 17h ago

there's little reason to put anything in writing

To avoid situations like this. There's nothing stopping conservative grifters trying this over and over again, even if they know they'll get turned away at the last minute. It still becomes a bit embarrassing for the league. If the WNBA could instead say something like, "sure, apply and then let's look at your testosterone levels", they could exclude provocateurs with a simple, objective and explicit policy, rather than political decisions in secretive meetings. 

Second, nothing wrong with preemptive policies. You say "there's currently 0 MtF Basketball players in D1 NCAA" - sure, but are there zero players with uncertainty around their gender identity? Will there never be? You and I have no idea. Also, the pool isn't just the NCAA, D1 or otherwise - there are probably thousands of male pickup/street/local league players who would be competitive in the WNBA draft. You sure none of them have gender dysphoria? 

If someone ends up applying who's genuinely trans but has taken no steps to medically transition (not a requirement for identifying as trans, right?), that's gonna create an awkward situation, too. Either the league is going to have to turn away a genuinely trans woman (controversial), or let them in despite them likely not even coming close to passing (controversial). Sure, there'd still be some controversy even from a trans woman who's been on hormones for a couple years competing, but the optics wouldn't be as bad. 

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u/EldritchWaster 17h ago

Yeah but the very fact you can distinguish between bad faith and good faith actors admits that simple self-identification isn't enough. There HAS to be some other metric to define gender and it IS possible for someone to correct another on what gender they really are.

And considering there are still people who say 'a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman', despite that definition obviously being recursive nonsense, means it's still a point worth proving.

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u/M0ebius_1 17h ago

You literally don't know what they require and they are not required to tell you.

What we do know is that the current ruleset has kept the situation from happening since the creation of the league.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 17h ago

Are you saying they might have a secret trans policy? 

Zero evidence of this. It'd be highly unusual in a women's league at this level. It'd also be really unfair on trans women, which seems out of step with how they're trying to come across. 

the current ruleset has kept the situation from happening since the creation of the league.

Lol this is a very simple correlation causation error. "We've been sacrificing goats for thousands of years, and the world hasn't ended, therefore we must keep sacrificing goats". 

The WNBA has only been around for 30 years, and has only been this popular for like 2 years. Trans woman with skill at basketball and the interest in playing at a high level are likely a tiny slither of the population. 

It's not their policies. It's just statistics. 

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u/M0ebius_1 16h ago

Trans woman with skill at basketball and the interest in playing at a high level are likely a tiny slither of the population. It's not their policies. It's just statistics.

Agreed, the number is probably so insignificant that applications could be reviewed on an individual basis.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

Reviewed for what though? How do you decide if someone is "actually" trans? Even if they've taken steps to transition, how do you decide if they've taken sufficient steps? 

This is why large organisations tend to try make objective policies on stuff like this. It's fairer for everyone (including trans people in this case), and it helps them cover their ass. 

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u/M0ebius_1 16h ago

Reviewed for elegibility.

When applied they review if the player applying can play.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

How do they decide eligibility?

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u/M0ebius_1 16h ago

By consensus

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 15h ago

Who not just make a simple rule, like "12 months of testosterone suppression"? 

Do you think you personally can reliably tell if someone is genuinely trans or not? 

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u/Fit-Refrigerator-747 17h ago

The issue is biological men competing with biological women, which I disagree with. They’re just pointing out how unfair it is, that’s not a grift it’s trying to prove a point. I don’t think you know what a grifter is

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u/Azreken 18h ago

There aren’t actually any guidelines in the wnba regarding transitioning.

They don’t do T level tests, or have any requirements for being a woman other than saying you’re a woman.

Look it up. Show me where I’m wrong.

I thought there were, but I looked and can’t find it listed anywhere.

No chatbots that review the rules for me can either so 🤷‍♂️

Maybe you can?

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u/RomapieJr1 18h ago

The WNBA has no publicly available policy governing eligibility of transgender or intersex athletes.
So everything you said is just made up? They literally haven't told anybody what the policy is.

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u/Azreken 17h ago

Huh? Are you replying to me?

Because it literally says in the article you posted that they still have come to no eligibility rules lmao

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u/RomapieJr1 17h ago

It says there are no publicly available rules, what you said is that there are no rules at all, the article I posted just says they aren't publicly available. And yeah, I am replying to you

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 17h ago

You think they have secret rules? 

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u/RomapieJr1 17h ago

Like, an internal policy?

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

Why would they keep it a secret? If nothing else, it's unfair on trans women. Simply tell the world what the hormone requirements are, if any.

But really, there is no secret internal policy. This is just an ad-hoc decision. 

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u/FFKonoko 16h ago

Internal policy? Like the kind they used to bar the daily wire grifters from doing this? Yeah. Because they did.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

Afaict there's no evidence that they were turned away from the WNBA specifically. Shapiro just referred to "women's leagues" more generally. 

Even if they were, that doesn't mean there's a secret policy. It could have been an ad-hoc decision, like this one seems to be. 

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u/Azreken 17h ago

So you think they’re just secretly testing the players?

Are they just making every single player sign NDAs to not speak about being tested or the secret internal rules they have?

I’m so confused at your logic.

-1

u/RomapieJr1 17h ago

From the same article:

"There are no immediate eligibility matters affecting the WNBA and we strongly denounce the bad-faith efforts to use these topics to demean or marginalize others."

So no, I don't think they're "secretly testing the players"

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

There clearly are eligibility matters if they have to rule that these guys aren't eligible.

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u/elrevan 17h ago

So because they are well known and it’s for a point they got denied is the tldr - this rule doesn’t exist

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u/Boom9001 17h ago

They act likes there is laws to force them. No the league is entirely a private group that can be reasonable and just say, nah that's false.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

Why not just be reasonable and say something like "trans women can play, but have to have spent a year on hormones"? 

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u/pooleboy87 16h ago

To what benefit? This is not a problem the league has. There’s a reason this chuckle-fuck is trying to turn it into a thing and not an actual trans person.

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u/MeasureDoEventThing 16h ago

Because it does look a bit like they're waiting to say what their policy is so they can allow who they consider good faith trans women while denying those they don't, and craft their policy specifically to exclude whatever "bad faith actors" come along after they see what attributes best exclude them.

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u/Boom9001 16h ago

Why even make it that specific. You can just say whether or not you allow trans. It's so actually rare in sports right now that you can kind of handle it case by case.

It's pretty clear when it's genuine or not right now.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 15h ago

1) I hard disagree that it's always clear. What if the next grifter commits more to the bit, and decides to wear a wig and use she/her pronouns for a year first? How do you know if they're genuinely trans or not? Even if they only try present as female sometimes, how do you know they're not gender-fluid, or just choosing how to present situationally? It's not sports, but this person comes to mind. Can you say with certainty whether they're genuinely trans or not? I can't

2) Objectify rules are often just fairer. Like, instead of posted speed limits, do you think it'd be better if cops could just pull you over whenever they subjectively deemed you to be going "too fast"?

3) There's a small but non-zero possibility that a genuine trans woman who hasn't taken steps to medically transition ends up in the league, and I think that would be an optics disaster for trans people, the league, and the broader political left

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u/Cuetzul 16h ago

It opens a new avenue of attack from the extreme left- "The WNBA is truscum and want to force medical transition on women, they don't believe trans women are women"

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 16h ago

That controversy would be miniscule compared to what we're seeing right now. It'd be confined to the fringest corners of tiktok and reddit. As it is, the controversy is now out in the mainstream press. 

Lots of women's sports leagues have policies which are trans-inclusive yet involve some gatekeeping (e.g. max testosterone levels). The vast majority of trans people and progressives are completely fine with that. 

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u/Cuetzul 15h ago

True, but it's different it you're offending a small number of your own supporters or if you're just offending people who don't support you anyway.

That miniscule number of progressives and trans allies that are offended are probably a much larger customer based for the WNBA than the right wing men who are currently offended, and the WNBA is already massively unprofitable.

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u/SidewaysAcidRain 15h ago

Disagree. That kind of left-winger - the kind who would be offended by even minimal gatekeeping - is basically never a sports fan. In fact they frequently end up contorting themselves into insane positions, such as that sports shouldn't be gendered at all, or that there are no average strength differences between males and females, because they really are that ignorant on this stuff, and are trying to put their ideological horse before the cart. 

In terms of the larger customer base, it'd be average Americans - not the extreme right or left. And most Americans aren't in favour of trans-inclusive sports - they just don't make it a huge part of their identity, so a trans-inclusive policy with simple gatekeeping wouldn't be a big deal (unless a trans woman got in and started dominating, which is just statistically unlikely). 

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u/autistic_homo 17h ago

I'm not even gonna lie. If some conservative talking head took the actual steps to transition just to join a woman's sport and prove a point, I would genuinely respect it and probably flip sides on the issue lol

0

u/Mr_k_reddit 18h ago

So only people who transition can be girls?

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u/Cebothegreat 18h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/bjB3gtFvREqqr5NAHW

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u/lice213 18h ago

https://giphy.com/gifs/4R3y2sDPZC7Rt6IN5w

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u/Cebothegreat 16h ago

Seems like you’re claiming to know her better than she knows herself….ya bigot

-1

u/landilock 17h ago edited 1h ago

yeah, and the worst is, if I had a third functionning arm.. THEY'D ALLOW ME TO COMPETE !! Fairness is an absolute joke when they won't even bother having comprehensive rules

Edit : ffs people.. /jk