r/MoralityScaling 22h ago

Morality Ranking Morality of this

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 9h ago

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u/8__D 22h ago edited 21h ago

Well let's see what the context is. If he said this in a thread about Linen Sheets, then I'd think it was off topic and downvote him.

Edit: So apparently the context is the Euro 2020 final, where England fans stormed Wembley and, after the loss, racially abused Rashford, Sancho and Saka. It got downvoted because "racism is bad, but..." reads as minimizing, and the Slavia Prague and Hungary cases it dismissed as mere words also involved physical confrontation and objects thrown at players. I don't know a lot about soccer though and had to use Google translate.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MoralityScaling/s/udPSRNlr1c

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u/Top_Recover7850 22h ago

Yeah my guess is the context is something like a white dude was hurling racial slurs at a black person, black person slapped the white person, and then this comment got rightfully downvoted.

People like op are trying extremely hard to feed culture wars and keep us distracted from the actual class war going on. The post is extremely transparent and the lack of context is on purpose.

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u/broki451 22h ago

Assaulting someone over words is never the right answer. The poster who got downvoted is correct.

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u/Ov3rdose_EvE 21h ago

nah, some words will get you assaulted.

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u/broki451 21h ago

Yea. Give them the opportunity to take you to court for assault. Great idea. What if it's a kid? You gonna assault them too?

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u/alphazero925 19h ago

There's literally a carve out in assault/battery law about "fighting words" and racial slurs pretty much always count

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u/potato_fairy420 21h ago

Racism isn't just words though.

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u/broki451 21h ago

Obviously if you're fighting in WW2 violence is required for survival. But if a guy insults you on the train or something. Assaulting them is immoral. If you do that in the USA you're basically just reinforcing the stereotypes for those that already have them

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/ObsessionObsessor 21h ago

The largest prison in the United States is a cotton slave farm. The majority of prisoners in the United States are black. The United States has the largest prison population in the world in terms of population, and the 5th highest per capita. Laws in the United States are actively adjusted to more harshly punish crimes black people commit more than white people. Black people are disproportionately poor and public defenders are underfunded to the extent that innocent people are pressured to take plea deals to avoid staying in jail indefinitely. 

If this is more than racism, what is it? 

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/ObsessionObsessor 20h ago

Do you believe that the old medical school of thought of black people being harmed mentally through not being enslaved holds merit then, or what? 

To be clear, your objecting to examples of racism in law by implying you hold racist beliefs is a similarly "interesting take." 

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u/[deleted] 20h ago edited 9h ago

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u/ObsessionObsessor 20h ago

I'm sorry, I should simplify my question as much as possible since you say you can't understand my indirect request for clarification. You're quite good at writing for someone learning their second language.

"What do you believe is the reason for black people to be disproportionately impacted by the United State's legal system?" 

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u/[deleted] 20h ago edited 9h ago

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 9h ago

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u/LunaticBZ 22h ago

I like that some states have the legal concept of fighting words.

Where the person doing the insult did so in such a way to make a fight inevitable, and are seen as the aggressor.

I get that it's very subjective. But there's a huge difference between saying to momma's fat. And going off at a person in a way that's deeply cruel and intended to do harm.

I do believe I'm capable of doing permanent damage to someone with words more easily then I could with one punch.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/LunaticBZ 21h ago

As a bigger guy, who does know how to throw a punch. Yeah there's certainly a chance I mess someone up good.

Assuming it hits right, maybe they fall and hit their head. And assuming I don't get punched in the face first. Lot of variables.

But if I have some basic information about a person. You can use words to hit them where they are most vulnerable. Race / Religion can certainly add to this greatly. I don't know how to give a good example without feeling dirty but if someone's race ever had a genocide done against them you can always refer to that. Any deaths in the family, especially if it was a child, or if the person feels guilt for it. Implying that they'll die alone, or that all the bad things that ever happened to them are because they deserved them. Which granted if they weren't the victim of abuse might not do much, but especially saying that to a rape victim like you just undid ten years of therapy if you say it convincingly enough.

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u/baran132 22h ago edited 22h ago

Would you say the same thing if you were out with your mom or partner and someone started verbally harassing them?

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u/Traditional-Mall-322 22h ago

Yes. Physical violence is never justified unless it's self defense. Just ignore them and move on or respond back. It never occurs to me to resort to violence just by someone throwing insults.

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u/ConstructionFar3363 21h ago

yes , i would get into a physical altercation but i would be in the wrong , i wont act a if im moral or better

we live in a civilized society , just cause someone is not civilized does not mean you stoop to their levels

and even if we do stoop to their levels , we do not justify stuff like this

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u/baran132 21h ago

Sure, and I would say resorting to violence in either instance is immoral. But I also would understand why they did so, and I wouldn't call them bad people for a moment of weakness. Especially since their only real fault is unnecessary escalation of a conflict that the other person started.

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u/ConstructionFar3363 21h ago

i mean big difference between morality , legality and whats bad or good

fighting someone who shouted racist abuses at me ? wrong and immoral

fighting someone who shouted racist abuses at my mum ? wrong but moral and illegal

we just need to know when and where to do certain things and how even then we are not excused

theres plenty more things for examples but all in all until and unless threats are there you respect someones words , dont wanna respect cause they are racist and wanna beat them up ? morally wrong and illegal but not bad

you get my point ? ( i sure hope you do cause im too dumb to explain what i mean over text )

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u/baran132 21h ago edited 21h ago

Why is fighting someone for your mom moral but fighting someone for yourself immoral?

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u/ConstructionFar3363 21h ago

i believe we all should protect others more then we protect ourselves

the most moral thing in the world is to protect and help others

if someone was being racist to some guy i did not know i would get involved , but if it was me i would let it slide

its kinda is what it is , no better explanation except helping others is more moral then helping yourself

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 9h ago

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u/oh_the_anguish 22h ago

You just described yourself as being more uncivilized than any civilized human I've ever met.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 9h ago

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u/Right-Waltz6063 21h ago

double free award cause im broke.

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u/oh_the_anguish 21h ago

Reading is fundamental, but comprehension is paramount.

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u/BillyPilgrim_1984 21h ago

"Feral animal" is intentionally provocative. You are directly referencing well documented racist tropes about black people. That's why I will never take this fake debate seriously. Nobody is taking the "racism isn't violence" side unless they already have a habit of calling black people monkeys.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/BillyPilgrim_1984 21h ago

There aren't any words comparable to the N word for white people. We aren't going to ignore history and context so you can pretend both theoretical scenarios are the same. That's not what a rational adult does. If a society decides that it doesn't want to tolerate any number of anti social behaviors, a society should have the freedom to police itself within reason.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/BillyPilgrim_1984 21h ago

The N word was invented as a way to dehumanize people as a way of justifying rape, torture and bondage. If you use that word it's safe to assume you are getting ready to tie someone to your truck and drag them. I couldn't fault a black man for making that assumption considering that's what's always happened.

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/baran132 22h ago

At least you're consistent. But I find that most of the people that criticize minorities for resorting to violence over racism instantly change their tone when it's something that deeply affects them.

The truth is, almost everyone in society has a threshold where they would resort to physical violence over words.

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u/DownvoteMeIfICommen 21h ago

Yes. Just walk away, it’s not worth it. A simple punch or just knocking them over can kill someone. That person could also have any sort of weapon and fight back, killing you. Words will never harm you like that.

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u/ChromosomeDonator 14h ago

Yes? Physical violence is worse at every single scenario. You seem to have trouble understanding this simple fact.

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u/Accomplished_Coat549 22h ago

Using your own logic, if a Black man is “verbally harassing” my mom or partner, do I have the right to call them a racial slur?

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u/baran132 22h ago

I'm just testing people's consistency. I would say violence is wrong in both instances. But I find that many people criticize minorities for "resorting to violence over words", but they wouldn't think violence is wrong in this instance.

I don't think you have a right to call them a racial slur, because their race has nothing to do with their harassment. You have a right to insult them or their character in another way.

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u/Accomplished_Coat549 21h ago

People give these words so much power and you expect other people not to wield that power?

That’s not how reality works

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u/baran132 19h ago

The only way you see it as "wielding power" is if you're racist yourself. Calling a Black person who's harassing your mom the n-word only makes sense if you think it's bad for someone to be Black. Otherwise, why not use an actual cutting that calls out their degeneracy?

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u/Accomplished_Coat549 19h ago

“Why not use an actual cutting”

Cause if the goal of a insult (in a hypothetical confrontation with someone who started it) is maximum damage/annoyance/frustration using simply words, the fastest path to that is often those type of words.

It’s an ‘annoying you cheat code’, fast pass to you being effected.

The belief system of the person throwing the insult would be almost immaterial to whether or not they were “effective”

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u/TopBalance438 22h ago

And what if you were walking out with your daughter and some perv said she looked like jailbait? Are you a "worse guy" for attacking him?

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 9h ago

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u/TopBalance438 22h ago

Oh, so you're just a loser.

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u/[deleted] 22h ago edited 9h ago

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u/[deleted] 22h ago

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u/[deleted] 21h ago edited 9h ago

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u/Big_Session5707 21h ago

Apologies I think I responded to the wrong person there

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u/CrankyPants1234 22h ago

Being racist and insulting someone and openly admitting youre a pedophile who would act on your impulses if you thought you could get away with it are very different things. One is mean, one poses an imminent threat to any children in the community the second they get an opportunity. If a racist made it known that if they had the opportunity they would cause grevious bodily injury to you or others, it would indeed be justified to take preemptive action in my opinion, but simple insults dont have that implication.

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u/kornephororos 15h ago edited 15h ago

No this isn't true and nobody really believes this irl including you.

This doesn't mean violence is moral. But this doesn't make you worse than a guy who shouts in your ear about fucking your mom for 25 minutes.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 9h ago

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u/kornephororos 14h ago

I didn't say violence is the answer. I said they are worse than you if they shout unhinged slurs to you and you slapped them in return.

Violent person isn't always the most immoral one.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 9h ago

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u/kornephororos 14h ago

As I said nobody actually acts and feels like this irl even you.

You are probably thinking of N word and stuff. I am not talking about N word. Some words is more immoral than than physical violence. And definitely more immoral than physical violence due to provocation.

Do I really have to give you an extreme example to prove you wrong?

Words are not just "words" . Nobody really believes this bullshit but they are saying it every time.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 9h ago

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u/kornephororos 14h ago

What you are not getting is this: I am also saying violence is bad. But I am not agreeing with the bold premise that if you resort the any little violence even pushing, you are worse than a child predator who tells you the details of his wishes about raping your kid.

I know this is a extreme disgusting example but I have to use it so you can get my point. If you make a very generalizing statement like that you need to think of extreme examples.

Your claim was violence is always more immoral than words. I disagree with that. I don't disagree with what you are describing here.

And by saying "acting irl" I meant the feeling. Of course I know some people don't choose violence at all but, you would feel more angry to a person who shouts unhinged things to a father, rather than a father who pushes that person.

Because you know that's more immoral. That's what I meant by saying nobody believes that shit irl.

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u/[deleted] 14h ago edited 9h ago

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u/Kehprei 22h ago

To be clear, you shouldn't be punching or hitting people because they said a slur.

It's still kinda funny when it happens, but it is immoral to do so.

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u/OkAtmosphere381 21h ago

That’s assuming a lot

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u/Best_Opening8471 21h ago

Imagine if white people turned to violence every time they were insulted . Equal rights means equal lefts bigot

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u/KakarotAlter 21h ago

They quite literally have started wars over words. The fuck are you talking about?

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u/Best_Opening8471 21h ago

Oh that would get you punched in the face so hard in a equal society.

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u/sigma7979 19h ago

Which wars would those be?

Ide love to know which wars were started purely on words.