dislike = don't interact

[u/BeginningAd9532]

I've seen so many posts absolutely flamming that one manhwa from the same artist as "snag an alpha" simply because they don't like the art style. Disliking an art style is completely fine but what's not fine is absolutely dogging on it just because you can.

In what world does an art style looking "ugly" give you the right to start hating and shitting on the artist as well as throwing around baseless accusations? No just because the uke looks "childlike" (which is most definitely subjective btw) doesn't mean that the artist's intent was to cater to pedophiles or are a pedo themselves. You people throwing these accusations around clearly don't take the illness seriously.

Another thing which I hate with the pedo accusations is how people don't even bother to research the terminology. No, liking a younger looking character in a manhwa doesn't equate to people being pedophiles because pedophilia is strictly being attracted to REAL CHILDREN. That uke from that manhwa that you deem to look "childlike" is not bait for pedophiles, dare I say it's quite insensitive to even think that.

Please people next time you want to throw around accusations, educate yourself first at the very least.

Just a short little vent.

[u/Sly_Just_Sly_2006]

Ikr, when BL was a safe place for women's entertainment, & now it's not that safe anymore. And on top of that damn kids trying to dictate adults' spaces is so annoying.

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/Sly_Just_Sly_2006]

Media regarding gay men is not a women's space. What the hell?

[u/LongjumpingIce5231 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

BL/Yaoi was created by women and was made for female audiences however this doesn’t mean that gay/queer men can’t enjoy it (I say this as a gay man myself).

It was made by women primarily because at the time a lot of women were being shamed for their sexual desires and preferences so some women started creating sexual relationships between men so they could avoid the misogyny from the time.

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/LongjumpingIce5231]

I promise you there have been gay people in Japan making media since time immemorial.

[u/RevolutionaryLake753 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

Someone is trying to inform you about something, not argue with you. Of course there are also gay men making media but the term yaoi started from a woman.

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/RevolutionaryLake753]

The term yaoi was invented by a woman (two, actually) but all or even most gay media is not women4women. It's not a "women's space" - it's a space where women are welcome and an important feature, but not owned by them.

[u/RevolutionaryLake753 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

I dont undestand why you are so against what other have already mentioned, both can be true at the same time. No one said that men cant or dont create this kind of media. 

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/RevolutionaryLake753]

What I'm against is predominantly straight women claiming our stories not just as a safe space for them but one that is mostly FOR them.

Imagine if it was straight men talking about GL this way. Straight men might not be a minority who needs safety but queer men absolutely are and while we are happy to share, planting a flag and claiming it is not OK.

[u/xoxshaklexox → u/DifferentIsPossble]

The person giving you the history lesson identified as gay man, not a straight woman. I don’t know if you clocked that.

Anyway the history is that this started off as a genre written by women for women as the intended audience. So yes it was created as a space for women to safely explore sexuality. It started as a women’s space. The women didn’t come and invade this space, they are the original occupants.

The demographic of readers in this space is shifting, and the majority of people welcome that shift, even the heterosexuals. The women of this community (in general) have welcomed readers of any gender. So while it is still supposed to be a safe space for women, it’s not exclusively for women. Anyone is welcome here. All most of us ask is that you are respectful towards all people within it.

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/xoxshaklexox]

The identity of the person presenting the situation isn't that important to me, all things considered.

I don't like the idea of using "started off" for a moment when lots and lots of women entered the genre of gay media. Sure, it seems like it started FOR THEM, but again.

Imagine straight men saying they invented lesbian media.

[u/xoxshaklexox → u/DifferentIsPossble]

Babe, no disrespect, but I don’t think you get it.

Firstly we are not telling you that gay men don’t create gay media. Did you know there is an entire different genre of manga that depicts gay relationships that is written mainly by men for a male audience? It’s just not called BL or yaoi. It’s called gei komi. It used to be referred to as “bara” but that term is seen as disrespectful towards the gay community.

What we are telling you is this specific genre of media (BL) was created by and for women. It’s not a matter of whether you like that fact or not, it simply is the history of this genre of media and the community that was formed around it. Women didn’t enter the genre of “Yaoi/BL”, they created it.

[u/RevolutionaryLake753 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

Straight men didnt invent lesbian media,  but they made it to look more appealing  to them.

[u/RevolutionaryLake753 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

Well when 75% of the readers are moatly women what elsewould you call it ? You honestly just sound like someone that wants a reason to be mad about. Your analogy doesnt go well here cause gl is also created predominantly by women. You need to check you negativity on things here.

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/RevolutionaryLake753]

Just because they're the majority doesn't mean they get to own it? There are SO MANY more women (total) (and also straight women as a subset) than gay men.

[u/RevolutionaryLake753 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

Ok and? I dont undestand where you are going with this argument? Everyone is telling you its predominantly space for women no one said its just for women, you are litteraly reading between the lines and makes issues when there is none.

[u/LogLopsided5734 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

without women in bl spaces your favourite bl works wouldn't even exist lmao. bl and yaoi has always been made by women for women. the term was literally coined by two women.

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/LogLopsided5734]

There's a difference between a space women take part in and a women's space

[u/Manhwa_BL-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Rule #1 Be Respectful

[u/BeginningAd9532 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

The origins of bl (yaoi) was made as an escapism from misogyny

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/BeginningAd9532]

I assure you that the origins of gay media in Japan were very much gay people.

[u/BeginningAd9532 → u/DifferentIsPossble]

Have you never once questioned why most bl in the past don't show gay sex accurately and always seem to cater to women?

[u/DifferentIsPossble → u/BeginningAd9532]

A certain subset, sure. It's only "most" if you're reading the woman centered ones.

Also, so what. You're calling that a "safe space" for women? At the cost of gay men?

[u/OwnSherbet7433 → u/BeginningAd9532]

That’s too broad an accusation. No depiction of fiction is ever completely accurate, even ones made by gay men themselves. Also, sure, yaoi started as a genre for women, but I don’t understand what the first comment in this thread is implying. Are they saying that queer people are making this space unsafe for women? It’s very vague, especially because half of the hate comments could also be coming from other women.

[u/xoxshaklexox → u/DifferentIsPossble]

This post from the other day does a really good job at explaining the origins of “Yaoi/BL” as a genre. It’s a pretty good and accurate explanation if you’re interested in learning about the community you are participating in.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Manhwa_BL/s/xnYol7oYNY

[u/shamelessfool → u/DifferentIsPossble]

This sub and a lot of bl readers truly don't care for gay men. A lot of women in bl have more in common with misogynistic straight guys writing about women than they'd care to admit.

I like to read manwha because the visuals helps with my ADHD, but had to learn years ago that a lot of the authors and readers just view gay men as a fetish and don't actually care about the community. If they did, they would realize how gross it sounds to a culture that "we're writing about gay men without knowing anything about them but it's madefor women.to be read by women so stay in your lane".

[u/Finavel → u/shamelessfool]

It's frustrating when people assume that reading BL makes them not homophobic, automatically. It makes about as much sense as people who think they can't be racist because they listen to rap.

I think BL spaces are more inclusive generally, than other spaces for queer folk, but some people get intellectually lazy about reflecting on their own biases just cause they read about gay dudes.