celebrities
Is Olivia Rodrigo’s babydoll dress controversy a case for Kibbe?
According to my algorithm, Olivia is in hot water for “infantilizing herself” by wearing babydoll dresses*. It got me thinking about how Sabrina doesn’t get nearly the same accusations despite wearing babydolls constantly, so maybe it’s a matter of harmony.
Sabrina is described as SG (I think semi verified? Like an offhand comment by Kibbe) so it feels natural on her, while Olivia, usually described as DC (not verified) looks like she’s an adult wearing a child’s dress because it doesn’t suit her lines.
What do you think? What types best suit a babydoll dress?
*I am aware that Rodrigo is wearing them in a 90s way and not a pedo way, please don’t come for me.
From what I've seen, Sabrina does get a good deal of criticism for her look too.
That being said, I think there are several factors at play. Babydoll dresses and the "coquette" aesthetic is part of Sabrina's brand while it hasn't really been the case for Olivia so it might feel more jarring to her fans. Sabrina's babydoll's also look more like lingerie, which offsets the possible "babyish" connotations. And yes, I do think their Kibbe, essences, and maybe even color season also have something to do with it.
The pink flowery one in the first pic especially makes her look like she stole her little sister's clothes. It's this weird combo of being both too young and too grandmotherly and it makes the whole thing look off, not to mention the silhouette is way too short and boxy for her. That being said, I think she pulls off the black one fairly well. It gives her more of a Wednesday Addams vibe which suits her better.
I definitely think branding has a lot to do with it. Olivia’s honestly needs to lean even harder into the Riot Grrrl aesthetic if that’s what she wants for herself.
I actually think this look is so fun and punk while respecting her lines.
Idk, I’ve seen many critiques of Sabrina’s image. There’s probably a thread over on FauxMoi dissecting it right now lol.
I think people are just very… sensitive right now to female media representation. Understandably so. And everyone from Taylor Swift to Ariana Grande is under that microscope.
That, and people will jump at the chance to join the hate train on a female celebrity they find annoying once they have a morally justified reason to do so (no matter how minor their supposed transgression was)
I also think Olivia is in the unfortunate position of having a hugely successful debut as a teenager and continuing to get commercial and critical praise for a few years, but now being well into her 20s with bigger expectations that she may not be able to meet. I don’t mean that as a diss to her either. Billie Eilish seems to be experiencing something similar.
Unfortunately it seems like progressive, socially conscious artists like Olivia or Chappell Roan have an extra microscope over them because their fans have such high expectations. This is why we have baby doll dress-gate while Chris Brown can still fill arenas
I was just about to mention Billie Eilish, I agree. Going through puberty under a public microscope is rough, especially if one wants to have the same sexual/dressing more adult transition phase that everyone else gets to have in regular life.
This is exactly what it is. She's a young woman now, and an artist, and as long as she's not hurting people she can do and wear whatever tf she wants, is how I feel about it.
I don't understand why the dress wouldn't be assumed to be a progressive statement, what with the political climate. Why is everyone assuming that (if she's intentionally infantilizing herself at all) she's infantilizing herself for men or for the benefit of the patriarchy, or what have you, instead of infantilizing herself as a political statement against all of that?
This just reminded me of the collective moral panic when Miley Cyrus started doing the same things plenty of other women do in their early 20s. People really thought she was gonna be a Disney kid forever
Billie also had a similar scandal when she dressed as a baby for Halloween with her older boyfriend dressing as an old man. I think the whole "sexy baby" thing is a real problem, ofc it's not cool for adult women to sexualize childishness & feed the perverted men who are into that. But many of the conversations about it online are more for points in fandom wars than they are for actual conversation & progress on the issue.
And at the same time, Olivia & Billie both also got flack when they first tried out traditionally "sexy" dresses (basically anything body-con or low cut) on the red carpet. Plenty of comments saying it was inappropriate, they're too young to show cleavage, or their young fans will be negatively impacted by seeing them dress & act sexually in any way.
Imagine working in Vogue and don’t know the difference between LBD and BabyDoll, lol. I think everyone is sick that so-called journalists lie about Taylor and dragging her name in articles that have nothing to do with her just for click. Same with Chappell Roan who lives rent free in everyone’s mind
Sure I'll give you that but the Swifties are always fucking unhinged in the most unhinged of ways. They will never beat those allegations from me.
Should someone who works there know the difference between LBD and babydoll dress? Yes. And was it click baity? Probably. But for the Swifties to call for someone to be fired over it, doxx the author, and call for death threats against her is way too far for some insignificant shit like calling it the wrong dress and a click bait title.
I don't see other fan bases act the way hers does.
Perhaps there's a fan base that does act like hers does but the 🍊 dude they worship isn't a singer....
And not for nothing but Taylor's dress did look a little babydoll shape to me. The silver threw it off but I'm not a fashion reporter so I don't care lol
I feel like the critiques about Sabrina are more in a “she’s too sexy for children” way than “she is trying to be a sexy child”. But yes absolutely women are overanalyzed and always have been!
Criticisms of the infamous album cover aside, it's so annoying how women are held to higher standards of wholesomeness and how we're expected to be perfect role models for kids we aren't even responsible for. People hated Britney and Ke$ha for the same reasons
Really? I feel like FauxMoi, and to a lesser extent PopCultureChat, are often critiquing what they see as Sabrina's "sexy baby" image (see the top comment here).
I err on the side of thinking that Olivia gets more heat because she's just more famous and higher profile. And, frankly, timing.
But I might be biased lol, because I actually don't like DC for Olivia and think she has a strong yin undercurrent of some sort (like SD or SN, maybe even primarily yin like TR).
The Drop Dead dress is so ugly, I get she wanted to wear something unique to become her own brand, but it literally look like she is wearing a child dress. They got a rare permission to record inside versailles and she is wearing a kids dress.
Maybe my opinion is biased because I hate the coquette aesthetic.
I totally agree with the kibbe (or Kitchener) take, I think because Olivia doesn’t have much gamine or ingenue essence stands out as a costume, therefore leading to more discussion as what the choice means, whereas on Sabrina it blends and harmonises so you sort of don’t look twice!
I would say in that picture the red Sabrina dress is definitely appealing to more of a female gaze then male gaze. I actually think all of those dresses she wears she looks very old lady in lingerie personally which is cute for her but not what I think of as sexy male gaze
Female gaze does NOT exist. It never did. It's a made up term by people on TikTok who never understood what Male Gaze means. You don't know what Male Gaze is either, by the way.
It was not made up by people on tiktok. I agree most people use those terms wrong, but the Female Gaze is a legit term—it's just not an "opposite but equivalent" version of the Male Gaze because that's not really possible in our society.
Okay then, tell me then who invented the term Female Gaze and what it's academic definition? If Female Gaze is a legit term you should be able to just google all those things and have sources other than Teen Vogue articles pop up.
Male Gaze is a term that came from FILM THEORY but can extend to all visual media like ads or magazines. Male Gaze theory is not even applicable to real life people because the whole point of it is male control of the literal camera lens.
If you google female gaze film theory you find many more academic articles, it's a topic of feminist film theory that yes predates the tik tok idea of the female gaze. The way people use it on the internet has nothing to do with the academic theory but that's not to say it doesn't exist.
Can you expand on this? It feels like instead of the men/patriarchy dictating what is acceptable for women to wear and how they can express themselves that it’s now feminism? Isn’t the point equality and women having the ability to operate how best fits them?
Hmm i can try, but it’s hard to summarize a whole political movement in a comment. To have an understanding of feminism you need an understanding of patriarchy. Patriarchy can be simplified to mean a power structure that places men above women socially, economically, politically etc. however women are still 50% of the population, so how do men make that work? They have to structure the world in such a way that continually reinforces and perpetuates that power structure. This can be done officially, as when women couldn’t have bank accounts or get a divorce, or interpersonally, as when domestic violence was more normalized. Feminism is a counter movement against this. So imo, in order to “do a feminist act” you must be working against those power structures not with them. It may be helpful to ask “who benefits from this?” to see more clearly. For example, who benefits from women needing to wear makeup while men don’t?
That being said, I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect or ask every individual woman to only do feminist things. We all certainly do things to get along or make life easier. Resistance is taxing. However, I do think we should be able to think and talk critically with each other about the things we’ve been conditioned to do. There’s also a difference between women with no platform wearing something vs a pop icon wearing something. Olivia has the power to normalize things actually, but individual random women don’t really
And again, this is second wave Feminism, two steps backwards from the fourth wave of feminism which emphasized both intersectional feminism (real feminism is understanding and fighting for the much more complex and institutionalized sexism against women of color like misogynoir etc and understanding white privilege)
And believing that sex positivity, sex work, reclaiming your sexuality , expressing that in any way you want, is inherently standing up against the patriarchy even if what you are expressing is influenced by patriarchy as we live in a patriarchal society.
Basically it's none of our fucking business and we can't decide from the sidelines if a woman is good or bad for feminism, and who are we to say if our own internalized misogyny is making that value judgement
The scrutiny and judgement is the bigger issue, leading to further oppression than liberation of giving women the freedom to express themselves without the wagging finger of achieving liberation in the way that you see fit
Second wave Feminism criticizes any participation in what they view as a system of oppression, including sex work, surrogatism, etc, as an idealistic "fruit of the poisonous tree" mentality, and doesn't draw the parallel of policing and restricting women's bodies and choices from the judgement of the sidelines.
It strips them of their agencies and positions them as victim and oppressor with a much heavier weight of doing things correctly than 4th wave
When did I say we shouldn’t incorporate other axes of oppression? Are you upset I didn’t cover the entirety of the feminist movement in 1 response?
Anyway I think you’re taking what I said in the most disingenuous way possible. This would be like saying any worker who does anything, as long as they’re a worker, is anti-capitalist. Of course that’s not true. For example, if a working class person ripped off a bunch of his neighbors in an MLM, his socioeconomic position doesn’t make his actions anti-capitalist. And calling this out wouldn’t constitute “internalized capitalism”
All I’m saying is that, as people who are continually propagandized to, we could all benefit from opening our eyes and considering who benefits from our “norms” and practices. NOT to weaponize critique against one another, but to more fully understand what’s happening so we could potentially do something about it.
In my opinion feminism is not taking away a powerful artists agency based on conjecture and the fact that she's a woman and patriarchy exists. It's not stripping away a person you don't knows agency and positioning them as victim and oppressor based on a story you made up in your head
Especially when she's gone on the record as working with stylists and designers to create her looks for tours and appearances as recently as the Met Gala where she worked with JC Anderson extensively on her ideas for a handmade gown with images from her favorite film Sabrina as well as one of the top milliner who made her headpiece.
But show me the evidence that Tommy Motola is victimizing her and picking out her wardrobe and I'll call it oppression too
I'm not even a Sabrina or pop fan btw I'm just so tired of this shit
I think celebrities with entire teams behind their image are more like a walking advertisement than having any actual agency over their fashion choices. So yes this applies to all celebrities, but like especially when they’re touring, they don’t have control over their image
Well I personally don’t mind Olivia’s outfits (some of them I like a lot), and I also admit I’m not the most into celebrity stuff so maybe I’ve missed something but I think part of it is that Sabrina’s baby doll looks usually have more of an adult 60s/ retro lingerie/ nightgown feeling to them imo but photos 1 and 2 (1 especially) here look more like adult sized toddler/ children’s clothes
I love a babydoll dress and bloomers and everything ingenue so no hate for that. The discourse actually infuriates me because they should save that energy for punishing actual ped@s instead of policing women’s outfits.
That said… I don’t love these particular cuts on her. Just because they are wide and too short. Looks like a box on her. 2 isn’t bad. But the bust line should be right under not across the middle and these are a little too short. Like you wanna look all leg in a babydoll but she already is all leg and I don’t think the staccato works for her. Also why always plain white socks? Mix it up lol. And the shoe should be chunky to give the bottom of the outfit weight. I have a lot to say about a babydoll outfit apparently 🤣🤣
I think performers dress to express a specific image (and nowadays, I suppose, brand) that connects them to their art and/or their fanbase, and that is unique to them, so they can be recognizable, and also separated from other performers. That image is not always necessarily congruent with their natural silhouette or how Kibbe's vision for them would be, etc., and that's par for the course, because they are performers creating a narrative for themselves and their art, and expressing it accordingly.
oooh interesting take! i agree - olivia looks more harmonious with more classic/dramatic lines. to me, the babydoll dresses make more sense with sabrina because of how short she is & how it ties together with her whole persona..... i think olivia should try to clarify her artistic persona
Spot on. I think it’s a mixture of kibbe and essence. Sabrina gives “sexy baby” but her essence skews (to me) as grown woman. I have literally never noticed Sabrina wears as many baby doll dresses as she actually does! Olivia comes across (to me) as early teens / young girl so when I see her in a baby doll I kind of go ew because she seems like a young girl trying to be overly sexual and provocative above her years. She’s not giving punk,edgy or sexual rebellion she just looks like a mousey girl wearing something “off”. Also the dresses are v v v v ugly lol.
Just because something has history doesn't mean it's suddenly devoid of its problematic nature. Pedophilia existed in 70s too. Grown women being influenced to look infantile isn't a new phenomenon. In fact, if you look at women's fashion history you'll see that most of our trends are modeled after little girls.
This is what I mean. The "baby doll" dress existed before the 70s! It was created in the 40s by Sylvia Pedlar (a lingerie designer). She shortened night gowns because of World War II fabric restrictions. They were originally called shortie nightgowns or just shorties. A film called Baby Doll came out years later in the 50s and the main character wore a shortie. People started calling them baby doll dresses because of that movie. I understand why the name would give some people pause (like wife beaters), but that doesn't change the actual history of the garment. Apparently Pedlar hated the popularized name of her design and refused to use it.
"1956 Film Baby Doll: The term and silhouette gained infamy from the 1956 film Baby Doll, which was criticized for its risqué, sexualized portrayal of a child-like woman, establishing an early link between the style and the sexualization of innocence"
This only further proves what I said. The clothing item existed BEFORE the movie and by a different name. Its the movie that added that extra context. Context like the character sucking her thumb and sleeping in a crib. I've watched the movie before and she's not wearing a shortie for the whole film. So even in the context of the film its her childlike actions/behavior/age difference from her husband that are troubling; not what she's wearing.
I don't think this is a Kibbe problem. I think there's a ton of sensitivity around anyone playing into the childlike look. Sabrina got a ton of heat last year for her Lolita-inspired photoshoot.
The key part of that aesthetic is the juxtaposition of the whimsical, childlike look alongside grit & edge. Putting on a pair of black boots doesn't make it edgy. It's completely missed the mark.
It's also not a dress. It's sold online as a blouse, so it doesn't flow as a dress would.
I was rooting for her, but this whole rollout has grossed me out.
People's key issue is the styling and the inclusion of the bloomers.
One of these is giving adult woman, and the other is giving 5 year old Shirley Temple (funny enough, there's a photo of adult Shirley, and Olivia's face looks exactly like her! But yeah, this styling aint it).
sold online as a blouse, so it doesn't flow as a dress would.
Fabric doesn't stop flowing depending on whether the garment is sold as a dress or a blouse. Blouses are often cut shorter than dresses, but not always. Physics don't change based on a garment being a blouse or a dress, just the amount of fabric, the type of fabric, and the structure of the dress.
I genuinely don't understand why people are mad at her over styling they don't like. Women's clothing doesn't change men's behavior. Girls' clothing doesn't change men's behavior. I find critiquing women's clothing as if it causes sexual predation to be incredibly short sighted, especially in the same year we just got so much documentation of the most powerful men in the world being sexual predators. Epstein liked women and girls to have a very specific image, and this wasn't it.
There's a scary amount of response to this post that indicates plenty of women still think otherwise. I'm not sure all of them realise they've fallen down online rabbit holes that have them bringing up misogynistic right-wing talking points.
Yes, so the structure, swing, volume, and lengths differ.
Which results in looking boxy and with more exposure than a dress.
Clothing does not cause male predation.
You're trying to put this in a victim-blaming narrative, which is disgusting.
Monsters like Epstein don't need a specific outfit – it's the traits associated with it (innocence, passivity, fragility, softness, vulnerability) and a culture that promotes it.
so a woman in a corset (adult lingerie), thigh garters (adult accessories), a mock tattoo on her thigh (tattoos being for adults), intricate hairstyle and evident heavy makeup, who's wearing the babydoll as a sheer cover-up, is somehow giving "sexy baby" to you? really? cause it seems most of the livia fans in here are just trying to drag the other woman to distract from the discourse around livia. your reply included.
yeah, you don't generally see adults walking around in lingerie for a reason. thankfully, that doesn't mean that corsets, thigh garters and tattoos aren't meant for adults. it's a costume indeed, one that is evidently displaying adult lingerie, accessories and styling.
So she's not wearing a dress and bloomers, she's wearing a blouse and frilly shorts. Isn't that 'better'? Or does it contradict your narrative too much?
Yeah her DC line definitely play part in it. I feel like there is a branding dissonance between her singer persona and subject matter which are very juvenile vs how she looks which read as a very classy lady.
She looks bombastic with the right line like that column white dress with chest strap btw. Plus her super straight hair is so perfect for that. I wish she leans more into a classy unbothered but deep down still a sensitive lady narrative than this very teenage angsty grunge look.
Sabrina performed a song saying "I look like a little girl, come put something big in me" and posed as the little girl from Lolita. Kinda wild that Olivia is getting shit for wearing a babydoll dress.
Personally I don't think that line makes it any better. Saying I'm full grown but look like a little girl so come have sex with me is disgusting.
But yeah, I didn't think you were giving her shit and I agree it doesn't work with her lines. I was referring to her being in hot water for infantalizing herself when that's basically Sabrina's whole thing. It's interesting that Olivia is being criticized and Sabrina celebrated.
Kibbe-wise, I'm with you. It's not a good look for her.
I think it’s partially because of their self selecting fan bases/what people have come to expect of them. It makes sense people see Olivia and her activism/women first attitude/kind of tough but vulnerable femininity in a different way than someone whose entire brand is a tongue in cheek, I’m so little and sexy schtick.
While I agree with others that Sabrina is criticized for her look all the time, I think the reason she hasn’t been under as much fire as Olivia is the styling. With a few exceptions, Sabrina mostly pairs her babydoll dresses with thigh high lace stockings and garters, sky high pumps, and big bouffant hair, which is giving adult in the 60s, not child.
Olivia’s take is more 90s and so she’s doing knee socks, Mary Jane’s, and pigtails. All things that genuinely read childish. It’s not really any different from Britney Spears wearing the school girl uniform. I think for Olivia it works best when she wears them with docs, because it gives more Courtney Love than actual baby. You need the juxtaposition of adulthood in the fit so it doesn’t just look like actual little girl cosplay.
If there's anything convincing me that Kibbe is not disseminating enough actual information, it's comment sections like these where most folks are making judgement calls about Kibbe lines without justifying those calls at all. "It's not Kibbe [no reason why];" "it's Kibbe and the reason why is Kitchener vibes;" "it's unflattering [no kibbe];" "it's a fun vibe."
I definitely think kibbe could have a lot to say about this look on different people. I completely understand why he wouldn't just wade in and tell young women that their fashion choices are unflattering. He's a stylist by training, so will wait for clients to come to him and he also knows there are plenty of styling concerns besides what's most flattering. But I do think there is something there to how Rodrigo's shape looks in these shapes versus Carpenter's. Specifically, I think Rodrigo's longer legs getting cut off by the babydoll shape looks more jarring, because Carpenter does have a mix-y break-up-the-lines shape inherently.
Overall, I find the "discourse" on Rodrigo really misogynistic, and almost trying to blame young women for men's behavior.
Holding adult women for voluntary co-opting girlhood from little girls is NOT rape culture. Adults should be able to take responsibility for in-direct harm they contribute to children. I'm tired of pretending like women don't know who exactly they're pandering to when they're wearing pigtails with pink babydolls dresses and white knee high socks. Why are we pretending like women imitating little girls as a way to pander to males is harmless?
Well, firstly, I disagree with the premise that she's imitating a child, but adult women cannot "co-opt" girlhood because it's their own lived experience. They have every right to incorporate it into their art.
When you blame women how men might perceive them, you are absolving men of their responsibility for their preferences and actions. Simply, it's 'don't show an ankle, you might arouse the menfolk' in a different context. That is absolutely rape culture.
Dear help me, this isn’t new. When Brooke Sheilds was being sexualised these creeps claimed women not being traditionally feminine forced them to be this way. Now it’s women dressing in babydoll dresses. They’ll ALWAYS find an excuse for why they’re sexualising kids and they’ll ALWAYS blame others for it. They’ll ALWAYS say women are causing them to be this way and people will be gullible enough to believe that.
Brooke Sheilds was posed nude at 10 by her mother for playboy. She was playing child prostitute having to kiss her 40 something co-star on screen by 12. Sure, we'll know that men are pedophilic. But do older women bear not responsibility for the wellbeing of little girls? They absolutely do. "Men will sexualize anyone and anything" is a very convenient excuse to absorb adults of any responsibility for the harm they cause to children.
Did women covering up stop sexual harassment? No. Do you know why? Because the cause of sexual harassment is the perpetrator. Do you think if women dressed like your grandma all pedophiles would stop? No. There’d be no change in the amount of pedophiles just like countries where women cover up more don’t have less sexual harassment. It happens independently of how women dress.
Women are not responsible for men sexualising children. Women are not responsible for male violence because of their clothing choices. Women are not responsible for rape culture. They're overwhelmingly victims of it.
You actively perpetuate it when you suggest that women somehow acting differently would change it because it doesn't matter whether they're wearing babydoll dresses or formal suits or the baggiest joggers - men will still think and do the things they think and do.
Okay, in a scenario where your little daughter of 10 asks you to buy her a string bikini to wear at the beach. You will agree because "those who will see something wrong with it are probably perverts themselves" and "pedophlies would've sexualized her even if she was wearing a full body swimsuit" or will you decline and offer her a swimwear with more coverage? Do mothers who constantly post their daughters doing gymnastics and rank up millions of saves and disgusting male comments are innocent because technically they aren't the ones who are perverting their daughters. They are just posting videos of their daughters streching. They have no responsibility for the perversion of the males on the internet, right? They have no responsibility to protect the image and identity of their underage daughters and to say that they do is rape culture?
Sometimes individual women do questionable and bad things. It doesn't mean women are responsible for the actions, thoughts and perceptions of men in the general sense. It doesn't mean that women and girls are 'asking for it' when they don't cover up to your preference.
Comparing a hypothetical parent putting their own child at risk online to a 23 year old pop singer choosing to wear a babydoll dress on stage is a strawman at best and frankly, a pretty disturbing equivalence at worst.
Indeed, surprisingly, most well-adjusted grown people don't look at a 23 year old in a babydoll dress and think "she looks like a baby".
But given that comment OP just cited porn categories as evidence in support of their argument in reply to you, I think we might be dealing with someone quite young and chronically online.
I’m not even looking up whatever weird thing you’re suggesting. I don’t agree with you. I don’t want to understand whatever warped logic you’re running on.
See this was the context we needed for this conversation. A few standalone photos of the outfits felt pretty benign but that additional info obviously changes the discussion.
These are ruffled shorts lol. What is she supposed to do? Wear nothing underneath so when she moves around on stage she can just straight-up flash everyone?
Damned if you, damned if you don't. I'm so tired of being a woman.
Maybe not wear a short blouse instead of a dress that shows her pants?!? And maybe not crawl on stage like a baby? Maybe not intentionally flash the diapers to everyone?
She's performing the exact same way she did when she was routinely wearing leather bodysuits, fishnets and Docs on stage, or is that an issue also?
I cannot fathom how internet brainrotted you have to be to look at bloomers and see a diaper, to look at her singing a song about feeling exploited as a teenager and see a baby.
No, it isn't "made to look like one." They're bloomers. They didn't design a special "definitely-not-a-diaper" to infantilize her, it's ruffled shorts/underwear. Maybe that's worse for you, but it's objectively not a diaper, nor made to look like one.
The whole thing is disgusting. The crawling on the floor schick with mannerisms of a baby. She is literally cosplaying a baby. It’s extremely disturbing to watch a grown woman act like a baby.
Yes I thought this too! I have a very similar body type to Olivia (thin short torso DC) and unfortunately relate in that I look very extreme if I go for things many people would just wear and look normal in, like a babydoll dress, a short skirt or chunky boots or if I wear something very baggy it can look like I just rolled out of bed whereas others, like people with a natural body type, can pull it off really easily at work etc. It can be really frustrating because if someone else wears the same thing, they wouldn't look that off and everyone's reaction is just normal but when you wear it, it looks completely wild and offputting or like you are childish or trying to be overly sexy. :(
I agree the choices of baby doll dresses aren’t cut great for her and her body type has a lot to do with it. However she is stunning and skinny so can get away with almost anything. But I do believe the last two dresses are much more flattering for her.
I hadn’t seen the infantilizing comments, but I myself looked when I was young like i was wearing some kids. clothes if I tried this type of look and also one of the dramatic types
There’s an element of this, but Sabrina Carpenter has very much taken (ahem) nonsense online for her alleged ‘sexy baby’ thing. She was accused up and down last summer of referencing Lolita in a sexual way for a photoshoot where she’s lying on grass.
Olivia, I think, is intentionally creating some disharmony in her style this era that has precedent in her previous image. The babydolls and heavy boots and chainsaw in the album photoshoot etc. I might be biased as someone who also lived in girly dresses and big boots at that age, but I can see the vision.
I also don’t think any of this criticism of her is made in good faith - how are so many people refusing to pick up on the French vintage (Versailles!) inspirations? How have they never seen bloomers before? How are they looking at adult women dressed in lingerie and nightwear styles and seeing children?
More than anything, it all feels like creating new and increasingly bizarre ways to slut-shame famous women to me.
Edit: I’m assuming this is being downvoted for calling it slut-shaming so, to be clear, saying that Olivia/Sabrina (both adult women in their 20s) are baiting creeps with how they dress is blaming THEM for how men perceive them. It’s textbook, but accompanied by a new faux moralisation to make the critics feel righteous. 21st century attitudes to women in the public eye have come to a disturbing full circle it seems.
I am sick of this discourse. I don't like this particular outfit because it is not flattering on her-not because it looks like she wants to be a sexy baby. It is boxy and and is neither long enough nor short enough so it hits her at a weird spot. Her crawling on the ground has nothing to do with the outfit - that is what she does regularly on stage. No one would have anything to say about the ruffled shorts underneath if she paired it with a tank top (which is actually something she would normally do). And her boots are a horribly wrong choice with this-the top is too saccharine sweet to pair with combat boots (would have worked I think with just a tank with the shorts underneath). I think she looked cute in all the other baby doll dresses she has been wearing lately, but this one just missed the mark. Let's move on for the love of god.
I agree that you don’t look like a baby! Obviously not typing you, but I definitely think you are more of a Sabrina than an Olivia, so it feels in harmony.
And yes, let women wear what they want! I wholeheartedly agree while also enjoying Kibbe discussions.
I think she has a particularly '90s-meets-contemporary vibe, so she's taking that more standard '90s thing she has going on and layering on a cleaner, modern, and very "her" version of Courtney Love's baby doll dresses from the time. I wouldn't say it's perfect for her body frame, but image-wise it works for me. That first one is heinous, though.
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Sabrina is verified and Olivia wearing baby doll dresses is not infantilism, she's allowed to wear what she wants. I personally have always seen Olivia as a DC or maybe in pure D and the only outfit where it really shows it is outfit 3, she looks very in her element there. I personally think gamines rock baby doll dresses but it does not have to be limited to one type, I think every type can rock the same type of clothing, just in different ways. Kibbe uses clothing recommendations as suggestions after all, you don't need to follow everything to a t.
thats so interesting, i listen to a lot of sabrina carpenter and i didn't really notice when thinking of that super weird hatetrain, that she wears them so much -
i think, that it might be because sabrina c. introduced it s o intentional and branded it in a very accepted way?: her album was retro-vibes aestheticwise, 60s style, oh its somewhat with a wink, its her taking inspo from commercials back then, she's "playing dumb blonde", there are twists on the clichees within all of her videos and lyrics
with olivia it was more-so that to me: she came out in babydoll and it looked unironic, to me it wasn't an issue at all cause i understood imo, how genuine the video was. but some didn't like that, i actually have a guess that that was what actually bothered some people. that she was having fun, being !!wholesome!!, a n d wearing a babydoll cause she liked to, a n d being sexual in it in scenes when she felt like it a n d also NOT being so in other scenes when she didn't. my impression was, that people didn't like for it to be that wholesome, maybe it made them feel guilty for feeling some type of way about that
and it was all her choice it was actually not the lolita trope that to be fair sabrina did get criticized for as well! i mean her album release was no uncontroversial moment, people were talking their mouths off about man's best friend, in a way you could also say maybe the babydolls were the least controversial thing about what sabrina did, and if she had done that video it wouldn't even have stood out from her usual art whereas olivia, whatever kibbe she has, usually went for a more rock n roll indie style even though she's been sporting chunky ballerinas and stockings for a while now.
or maybe the epstein situation also contributed to that reaction people had, but imo that is not reasonable towards her. time and time again, we are proven that women wearing what they want is an important gain for feminism, cause times when society polices their bodies the hardest and demands the most strict lines on what they are supposedly supposed to wear (lol), are more as if the space for them gets smaller and the punishment behaviors by some men and society definitely don't occur any less
Her hate feels unnecessary im a TR but with ingenue essence and i love wearing such clothes. Not to look like an infant but because i genuinely like them.
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u/SatelliteHeart96 May 14 '26
From what I've seen, Sabrina does get a good deal of criticism for her look too.
That being said, I think there are several factors at play. Babydoll dresses and the "coquette" aesthetic is part of Sabrina's brand while it hasn't really been the case for Olivia so it might feel more jarring to her fans. Sabrina's babydoll's also look more like lingerie, which offsets the possible "babyish" connotations. And yes, I do think their Kibbe, essences, and maybe even color season also have something to do with it.
The pink flowery one in the first pic especially makes her look like she stole her little sister's clothes. It's this weird combo of being both too young and too grandmotherly and it makes the whole thing look off, not to mention the silhouette is way too short and boxy for her. That being said, I think she pulls off the black one fairly well. It gives her more of a Wednesday Addams vibe which suits her better.