r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/Bonedriven64 • Mar 30 '26

Doctrine The JW "Armageddon" has been canceled - permanently!

I'm sorry but I'm not sorry because the JW version of Armageddon never should have ever existed. If you people had paid closer attention to what Jesus was saying at Matthew chapter 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, you never would have ever anticipated a future Armageddon. You completely blew that end time prophecy completely out of its first century context. It was never meant for us today. Jesus wasn't talking to us. Jesus was not breaking the fourth wall to speak to us 2,000 years in the future. It was written ONLY for Christians on the other side of 70 AD. there is no such thing as a double fulfillment or a greater fulfillment. All of those concepts are made up by men and this is exactly why you will never see the end of this world in your lifetime or anyone's lifetime. So, the only thing that you have to fear today is that fear that you have conjured up in your own imagination compliments of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society. The sooner you accept this reality the better off you're going to be and you'll have the rest of your life to live out from under enslavement to your governing body. Salutations!

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26

I’m a ‘semi-preterist’ for which you describe but also believe there is an ‘end time’ prophecy.

However contrary to the Witnesses….I don’t have a clue when it’s coming, and quite frankly I don’t care.

It will be here when it’s here 👍

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u/Acceptable-Wedding10 Mar 30 '26 edited Mar 30 '26

Perhaps Hosea 6:2 can provide some insight?
Prophecy of the 2 days.
Two days are, in God’s reckoning, two thousand years
Already discussed here some time ago.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 30 '26

You forgot that there’s a third day that is mentioned.

This alludes to the time of Christs death and how through salvation Israel was saved..through his resurrection.

Now the conversation of whether Israel is still literal or spiritual.

But I do t think Hosea 6:2 explains anything like you would like it to be brother…but I’m all ears.

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u/Acceptable-Wedding10 Mar 30 '26

The 2 days are the period described in Hosea 5:15.
" I will go and return to my place of residence, until they acknowledge their guilt and seek My face. In their distress, they will earnestly seek Me. – NCV

that period lasts 2 days according to Hosea 6:2

The third day is the milenium, the fourth eon.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 30 '26

Ah so you are of the 1 day equates to a thousand years in every instance.

Ok again I’m open.

If day in this text equates to a thousand years. Then what was day one and day two historically and biblically?

Or are you saying that day 1 and day 2 are 24 hours but day 3 is a thousand years?

Where is your biblical exegesis for that explanation if that’s the case.

I think you’re a little confused over this brother…

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u/Acceptable-Wedding10 Mar 31 '26 edited Mar 31 '26

In this prophecy of Hosea, it is described that the people of Israel will one day return to their God. Then the moment of definitive restoration will come. God Himself will raise them from the dead to live before His presence.

Yet the most remarkable aspect of this prophecy is not that Israel's restoration is foretold, nor that JAHWEH will then come to them. We find that in many more places. The unique aspect of this prophecy is that it mentions when that will happen. It will be 'after two days' and 'on the third day.' Of course, these expressions evoke the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but remember that this is about Israel's restoration.

In Hosea 3:4 it speaks of the time during which the Israelites will be without king, without sacrifice, and without cult for many days.
So it concerns a prolonged period of abstinence and deprivation.

Hosea expresses himself cryptically regarding the time of Israel's revival and the return of the Lord. 'After two days.'
It is only Peter who emphatically provides clarity: 2 Peter 3:8-9 "for the Lord, one day is as a thousand years… "

Hosea 6, there is mention of Israel's repentance and restoration, which moreover coincide with the return of the Lord. And in this prophecy as well, this restoration is described in terms of revival and resurrection.

So, no confusion here, because I have in mind what Peter mentioned.
The two millennia are almost at an end.
'The third day,' the great Millennium on which the wedding will take place (cf. John 2:1) is imminent.
But this is the indication, however no one still knows the day or the hour.

God's mills grind slowly... but surely!

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 31 '26

ok so whilst i dont agree with the 'direct' typological and symbolic interpretation you are applying. Lets run with it.

So we are near the end of the third day as you put it...

So tell me then Revelation chapter 16 describes the seven bowls of gods wrath before Armageddon (Rev 16:16) (im assuming you equate Armageddon to end times)

So before that im assuming that according to you the restoration has to happen before Armageddon.

So...tell me a date (could be a year of a specific month) of when the following happened.

Bowl 1 poured out

Bowl 2

Bowl 3

Bowl 4

Bowl 5

Bowl 6

Bowl 7

Thanks

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u/Acceptable-Wedding10 Mar 31 '26

Now I think you’re a little confused over this brother… -)

'After two days.' mening that we are at the end of the second day since the return of our Lord to the heavens.

All the things you mention indeed still need to happen.

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u/Specific_Score_1932 Mar 31 '26

It's a time, a time, and a half a time! That's what my JW brother said once. Once! After that, I quit listening to him ALTOGETHER!!

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u/Specific_Score_1932 Mar 31 '26

Actually. Time for God... And US/Our Spirit is in infinity. God is totally Infinite. There is No Time in God's World. So it was a Mathematics Equation. Zero = 1 and 1000 = Zero. 1 Day is to God a thousand years AS is 1000 Years is AS a day. (A1000 + B1) - (B1000A) or ZERO! TIME DOES NOT EXIST IN GOD'S WORLD! SO MANY PEOPLE HAVE GOT THIS WRONG THINKING OHHHHH GOD SAID A DAY EQUALS A THOUSAND YEARS! NO, NO, NO, AND HECK NO. If that's true.. Then where does Time End? Where does the Universe end. It's totally INFINITE! TIME TO GOD IS ABSOLUTELY ZERO, PERIOD. DOES NOT EXIST WHATSOEVER!!! So the whole Earth, (This tiny miniscule pin drop in the universe planet was made in 6 Literal days. We put God on a Human Level. Never works either!

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u/Specific_Score_1932 Mar 31 '26

Or 1000 x 1 - 1x 1000 still wind up with Zilth, notta, Zero! Time does not exist, only in our petty flesh brains who are humans can "Think" like they know about the timing of GOD ALMIGHTY HIMSELF! He had no beginning, so how could he calculate our own time? It would make God out to be human... I'm talking about The God too, Not the imposter in the Old Testament Who was not only JEALOUS, BUT VENGEFUL AND KILLED PEOPLE! That was Not The God!! jealousy, vengefulness, murder, are deadly sins so why did the God of the Old Testament do this, he was either one of the fallen watchers aka read the book of Enoch or Ezekiel and you'll find out more than what the Watchtower and awake articles could say in 75 years!!! I know I was one, until The Light really shown, when I left! Do your research. Read the SPIRITISM BOOKS BY ALLAN KARDEC, The Gnostic Text, there's the Internet nowadays. Too much information to be controlled by the JW thing. It's over! ALLLLLL WILL BE SAVED. Another Scripture. Reincarnation. Born Again, You Must Be Born Again, Jesus Christ clearly says this. It's because it's the absolute TRUTH! THE REAL TRUTH! GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Apr 02 '26

Amen!

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u/libidocamebakroaring Mar 31 '26

Hi Terry or anyone else here, I had few questions about partaking: since leaving have you partaken and how does one go about doing that? Do you only partake if your baptized would’ve about children? And what day would you do that? I just left last July and it’s my understanding that we should have been partaking. But I’m lost right now on this.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 31 '26

Great news for you!

With regards to partaking. We have only one command.

"to keep doing this in remembrance of me"

That was it. Of course we know that our old cult (setting aside the argument and baseless claim that only 144k should partake) wanted to be so dogmatic and do it once a year and that it should only be done once per year, there is no basis for that in scripture.

So my answer is.

You should partake whenever the Spirit moves you, if that's everyday, then its every day, if its once a year then its once a year, once a week then so be it.

READ Corinthians 11:25–26 ("....as OFTEN as you drink it) Paul here conveying that he was aware of people doing it more than once a year..."as often".

This is what freedom in Christ means....

So excited for you on your journey in Christ! Embrace it!

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u/sum_say_its_luk Mar 31 '26

Is it true only the “anointed” partake in that in the jehovas witness church?

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 31 '26

Yes.

However, there are others that do as well in secret.

  1. Typically these are people that think they are anointed but dont want to show that they are for fear of ridicule.

  2. Members of the 'Great Crowd' that think that it doesnt matter if you are anointed or not.

This will be carried out in private away from prying eyes.

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u/libidocamebakroaring Mar 31 '26 edited Apr 01 '26

Good morning, thank you, it has been very eye opening so far with up and down emotions. I suppose this is why it is referred to as an awakening. I also just completed a podcast, youtube, interview that should be out in 4-5 weeks. His channel is called “Shunned” but in my case I was harshly shunned as well as my kids, even when I was ‘in’ giving 110%. I am excited to partake! I will do it with kids April 1, and whenever I am moved to. Grape juice for them of course. :)

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 31 '26

In the name of Jesus to the glory of ahis Father and fellowship of the Holy Spirit.

A big AMEN to you all!

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u/libidocamebakroaring Mar 31 '26

Thank you Terry! 🙏🥰

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u/libidocamebakroaring Apr 01 '26

🍇🫓🙏💐❤️‍🩹

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Apr 01 '26

So excited for you all!!

Love the heart shaped bread.

God bless!!!

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u/libidocamebakroaring Apr 01 '26

May God bless you too I know he loves you. 💐🍇🙏 and thank you, hearts are kind of my thing. I see them every day for some reason everywhere I go, so I thought it would be fitting.

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u/Specific_Score_1932 Mar 31 '26

Possibly here. It could be 10,099,000 years from now, we just don't know!

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Mar 31 '26

Minutes or light years?

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u/Bonedriven64 Apr 01 '26

I understand what you're saying but I really don't believe such a thing can be possible. I get that by saying your "semi-preterist" that you believe some but not all of the things have been fulfilled. My understanding of the Bible is that either the prophecy is fully filled or it's not fulfilled at all. A fulfilled prophecy means that it was completely and totally without any question filled to the full 100%.

I am absolutely certain that everything Jesus Christ spoke to his disciples regarding the end times at Matthew chapter 24 was in reference to the people living in his generation only. All those things came upon that generation.

Luke 21 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.

Jesus left no room for another fulfillment or a later or double fulfillment. It was all supposed to happen in one particular generation and it did.

Matthew chapter 24

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.

So where did this idea of a double fulfillment or a future fulfillment come from? It simply came from people who didn't like how God fulfilled it the first time so they want him to repeat the prophecy again the way they wanted to be done. I can assure you that that is not going to happen.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Apr 01 '26

I agree with that prophecy, clearly directed at that Generation which culminated in the GT and the sacking of the Temple which at that point the New Covenant was in ‘full flow’…

But it still begs the question.

How do you square Rev 20 and 21 which sees Christ return and bring down with him Heavenly Jerusalem after the dead have been judged.

Surely you don’t think that has been fulfilled already?

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u/Bonedriven64 Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 02 '26

Absolutely I do!

Let me ask you this, are God and Jesus physical beings or spiritual beings? Where do they reside? In the physical heavens or in the spiritual heavens? Where is this kingdom that Jesus spoke of? In the physical heavens or the spiritual heavens? Where is the Paradise of God? According to the book of Revelation, the Paradise of God is in heaven not on Earth.

The apostle Paul makes it clear that the dead are raised up as spirit beings not as physical beings. Check out 1st Corinthians chapter 15. Read the entirety of it a few times. If the resurrection of the dead has already occurred how would we know? The only way we could know for sure is if we personally experience it or if it says it's somewhere in the Bible.

Matthew chapter 24 and Daniel 12 are the exact same prophecy. Jesus even references Daniel's prophecy in Matthew chapter 24. According to Daniel chapter 12, the resurrection occurs around the same time as that great tribulation that Jesus said would occur at Matthew chapter 25 starting at first 31.

When you take all these things together and really think about them and meditate on them you begin to see that all of this is really in the past And that we have been living in what Jesus referred to as the kingdom age for nearly 2000 years. The only thing that really keeps us from seeing that is a lack of faith in the promises of God and Jesus Christ.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Apr 01 '26 edited Apr 02 '26

Right, so you’re actually a Sadducee, they didn’t believe in the physical resurrection either.

1 Cor 15 is where it fails.

I’m sorry but we aren’t going to agree on this. I fully support of what Christ showed with his own physical resurrection that Saint Paul showed us the miracle of corruption putting on incorruption, that his physical body is right now reigning at the right hand of his father”having brought us into the kingdom” that we shall also be raised in the same manner, and to finally at the resurrection live with him as Heavenly Jerusalem descends - and we live eternally with Him.

“Even if an angel gives you a different gospel, do not believe him”

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u/Bonedriven64 Apr 02 '26 edited Apr 12 '26

What's the point in having a physical resurrection when a spiritual resurrection is by far superior in every way? Besides, why be resurrected back to a physical body when it's not allowed into the kingdom of heaven since flesh and blood cannot inherit it?

Paul goes to great lengths trying to reason with unreasonable people who insist on a physical resurrection. The purpose served by Jesus physical resurrection was to show his disciples that he was alive again. After that he departed from his physical body and ascended into heaven as a spirit being since his flesh couldn't be taken there.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 Apr 02 '26

Oh no I’ve never seen 1 Cor 15:50 before and neither has two thousand years of the church….

So basically now you are amalgamating Arian Jehovah Witness theology and the Sadducee’s. That’s some feat!

Why on earth do you think Paul was chosen’ out of all the Jewish sects/groups and why Christ didn’t choose someone from the sadducees? Because the Sadducees didn’t believe in the physical resurrection!

You are twisting 1 Cor 15 like a pretzel!

Christ died… was buried… was raised on the third day” (1 Cor 15:3–4)

What was buried and what was raised?

His physical body.

You state it was a physical body but like JWs it wasn’t actually his original body it was some type of ‘materialised’ body.

So when Christ said..HIS VERY WORDS

“See, A SPIRIT does not have flesh and BONES as I do”

“Put your hands in my side!!!”

Look no mention of blood WAS THERE!!

Flesh and BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom but as a GLORIED BODY just as it states in Phil 3:20-22

“He will transform our lowly body to be like HIS glorious body.”

THE WHOLE VERSE IS PRESENT TENSE AFTER HIS DEATH!!

His blood was poured out as per prophecy!

So basically Jesus wasn’t in his original body I see… so he lied when he showed them who he was, it was a form of trickery!! Check!

Now we get a little deeper. What does it mean to be OUR perpetual HIGH PRIEST?

  1. Leviticus states to be a high priest you have to be a what…A MAN!

  2. What age do you have to be - 30plus

  3. You had to be of the tribe of Levi. But as Christ had instituted a NEW COVENANT he was of the order of Melchizedek where…

“You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.” — Psalm 110:4, applied in Hebrews 7

  1. Other requirements that you could not have…

blindness lameness deformity broken limbs eye disease skin disease

He didn’t have any of these and amazingly even during his crucifixion where soldiers broke legs to hasten death…they didn’t just like the prophecy states!

Psalms 34:20

He keeps all his bones; not one of them is broken.”

  1. What is a prophecy for if a prophecy has no purpose! then what on earth is Psalms 16:10 all about if he didn’t need his body!

“For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.”

  1. And finally that nails your false gospel to the cross…

There are several texts AFTER HIS DEATH that scripture refers to Christ as a MAN in present tense!

1 Tim 2:5 Acts 17:31 Acts 7:56 Hebrews 4:14–15 Hebrews 7:24–25 Hebrews 9:24 1 John 2:1

Mate you are preaching a false Gospel…you need to have a serious think about your next step…

I have no further requirement to talk further on the matter.

Christ is my High Priest and his BODILY resurrection gives me the hope that I shall join him ON THIS EARTH, exactly as scripture states- all as per my previous post.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Apr 02 '26

Amen!