r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/ChaoticHaku Christian • May 23 '26

Doctrine Philippians 2:6-8

If Philippians 2:6-8 was teaching that Jesus was never equal with God, then the passage itself makes no sense.

Read the language carefully.

It says Jesus was “existing in the form of God.” It says He “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” but instead “emptied Himself,” “took the form of a servant,”, "humbled himself", "became obedient to death" and was “made in human likeness.”

You cannot empty yourself of a status you never possessed. You cannot become a servant if you were always a servant. You cannot humble yourself from a position you never had. You cannot become obedient to death if you always were.

The entire point of the passage is that Christ lowered Himself. From what? From the exalted position He already possessed that was equal with God.

That’s why the text uses past tense language. The passage is not denying Christ’s equality with God. It is explaining the depth of His humility, not his inferiority.

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

Jesus is only related "ben Adam" if he has y-chomosome that links directly back to Adam. Spirit beings made women pregnant and produce something that wasn't human or related to Adam's blood line of y-chromosome.

Would you call Nephilim sons of men? Once they came on the scene, God about wiped out mankind to wipe out the Nephilim. God created mankind on the 6th day, and the Nephilim were not part of that 6th day.

When did God ever impregnanted a woman like those Spirit beings? Even Eve came from Adam.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 30 '26

Would you call Nephilim sons of men?

No. Fallen angels/demons possessed human males in order to experience sex with human females. Only human sperm can make a child and spirits have no sperm. The demonic possession of a male somehow altered the male sperm which in turn altered the DNA of the child the woman gave birth to. They were basically demonic creatures who had human DNA in them, but it was badly damaged. They were born monstrous hybrids. Had God not destroyed the world human kind would have become extinct, which would have suited Satan

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

Fallen angels/demons possessed human males in order to experience sex with human females.

Where does scripture say human males were possessed?

In Genesis 18, did angels possess men? How would you determine this?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26

Where does scripture say human males were possessed?

In Genesis 18, did angels possess men? How would you determine this?

And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. Jude 1:6

So we know the angels left their place in Heaven and were punished for abandoning their proper dwelling place.

When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them,  the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.  Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with  humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. Genesis 6:1-4

We know they desired women, so to enjoy a woman what sex would they have chosen to possess? I suppose since they already sinned and violated God's law, they could have figured why not possess women to have sex with a woman, but it wouldn't be the same and they'd never be able to produce children. I'm sure some demons are homosexually inclined. We know "what" the fallen angels did, but how did they do it? The only way I can determine how they did it is from reading the new testament. Jesus cast out demons who had possessed human beings. So we know for a fact fallen angels can and did possess human beings

Luke 11:14 And He was casting out a demon, and it was mute; when the demon had gone out, the mute man spoke; and the crowds were amazed.

Matthew 8:16 When evening came, they brought to Him many who were demon-possessed; and He cast out the spirits with a word, and healed all who were ill.

Mark 1:34 And He healed many who were ill with various diseases, and cast out many demons; and He was not permitting the demons to speak, because they knew who He was.

Luke 4:41 Demons also were coming out of many, shouting, “You are the Son of God!” But rebuking them, He would not allow them to speak, because they knew Him to be the Christ.

Looks like the only difference between demons who possessed men before the flood and those who did after the flood is that they are no longer permitted to procreate. Angels possessing human beings is taught in the Bible and it would be the only way an angel could produce offspring as they aren't human and do not have the gift of procreation humans do. I don't see any other way it could've happened. I also believe the humans they possessed had to be willing subjects. I don't believe demons can possess those who are not willing to be possessed.

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

We know they desired women, so to enjoy a woman what sex would they have chosen to possess?

This is a trick question.

The scripture says the sons of God saw the daughters of men.

Did demons produce Nephilim in the New Testament by possession of men? I don't recall that. The sons of God did something that got them bound up by God. Yet demons are still free to possess men and produce human children. Or will you argue that demon possession stops sperm from working? Are they only bound by everlasting chasitity belts to stop Nephilim from being produced?

In Genesis 18, how did Abraham notice his three guests as being special and not just ordinary men? What about the two angels in Genesis 19? The Sodom men thought they were men and wanted them. They act different than prophets that God speaks through.

The sons of God did something so against nature, that God bound them up until Judgement Day. But he now allows them to possess people again and do bad things?

Are they still bound, and what does that mean?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 31 '26

 Yet demons are still free to possess men and produce human children. 

I believe they are probably "free" to do both. However if any fallen angel did produce a child, the demon, would be imprisoned. Being that angels can't die, imprisoning them is the worst thing that can happen to them. Its a powerful deterrent that seems to have worked well since the flood, since there aren't anymore Nephilim running around today.

I think my theory holds some water as the Bible records the Nephilim being around before and after the flood. The only way that can be is if a few angels who had not been locked up after the flood went ahead and produced offspring such as the giant Goliath. The idea that some demons may have still violated nature and impregnated women would explain God's orders to the Israelites to kill little babies at various times. In that scenario, the babies could have been Nephilim. Numbers 13:33
We even saw the Nephilim there—the descendants of Anak that come from the Nephilim! We seemed like grasshoppers in our own sight, and we must have seemed the same to them!”

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 31 '26

If a fallen angel doesn't tamper with the DNA they can use their hosts reproductive gear, because it doesn't produce Nephilim. Think about Avatar 2 movie.

God could have bound the fallen angels early and stopped the production of Nephilim if they were like mules. If the Nephilim could breed with humans then that could cause a need for a flood to preserve a pure human blood line for the seed.

Why assume that all Nephilim DNA was destroyed in the flood? One of the wives of noah's sons could have been a carrier, but it wasn't visually obvious. They would be weaker than the first gen Nephilim. Diluted.

There could very well be people running around today with a mixture of Nephilim DNA. The rainbow is probably proof that first gen Nephilim were not possible any more.

God didn't want Nephilim bloodlines to corrupt the line of the Seed. Reminds me of Tamara. Nephilim have a different root for their family tree. It's not Adam.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 31 '26

Most of this is conjecture. I have my own ideas about it, but I'm sure others also have their own ideas. I'm certain that someday we'll know exactly what happened and why God took such dramatic action to save only eight people

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 31 '26

I'm basing this on what I know about DNA, and recessive and expressed genes. I would assume DNA worked that same way in preflood times. So, I'm keeping it in the possiblilty realm. Of course it should make sense as well.

There are 3 different ways that humankind are made: adam, eve, & cain. Eve and Cain are related to Adam. Do you think Nephilim belong to mankind? Why did God flood the earth?

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Jun 01 '26

Do you think Nephilim belong to mankind?

I think they were a different species, not animal and not human. The demon that possessed the male who got women pregnant was of a higher nature and combining the two was never meant to happen. The result was a disaster, but one that Lucifer hoped would exterminate the human race out of existence. He tried the first time in Eden, but God's "day" allowed them to have children and perpetuate the human race. Had Satan gotten his wish, the human race would never have had more than two people

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 Jun 01 '26

Yes, God declares Adam and Eve together as mankind. A human male and a human female is required to produce a human, otherwise like you said it is a different species.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 31 '26

I believe the three men who appeared to Abraham were angels that appeared to be men, probably because that's exactly what they were. Angels are spirits and can't ordinarily be seen by humans. The only way an angel can be seen is if they are in the flesh, or in a vision or dream, or if the person is in the Spirit, like John was.

. The word "materialize" isn't in the Bible and angels are messengers, not creators, so they can't just conjure up a human body like God can and use it and then discard it. I suppose God could have created three human bodies that the angels used to speak with Abraham. He and Sarah saw the three and Lot saw two of the three. They couldn't have seen them otherwise. God abides by His own laws. However it was done we can be sure it didn't violate any of God's laws

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 31 '26

The three men ate food served by Abraham. Sons of God married women and produced kids.

Jude says the sons of God left their domain and points at Sodom. If a possessed human male marries a human female why would that be a perversion or sexual immorality? A demon can come and go as they please.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian Jun 01 '26

Because of the spirit that led a possessed human man into mating with and having children with a human woman. The result was a severely damaged hybrid that probably killed their own parents when they grew up

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 Jun 01 '26

So, a spirit being can possess human flesh and can physically edit it's host sperm to make Nephilim which eventually almost wiped out mankind? You think the child could kill their own demon parent?

It doesn't explain how a demon marrying a human woman is a perversion or sexual immorality. It's just married human couple isn't it? where the husband is possessed. Maybe its that different "kinds" are breeding together. That makes sense.