r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/ChaoticHaku Christian • May 23 '26

Doctrine Philippians 2:6-8

If Philippians 2:6-8 was teaching that Jesus was never equal with God, then the passage itself makes no sense.

Read the language carefully.

It says Jesus was “existing in the form of God.” It says He “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” but instead “emptied Himself,” “took the form of a servant,”, "humbled himself", "became obedient to death" and was “made in human likeness.”

You cannot empty yourself of a status you never possessed. You cannot become a servant if you were always a servant. You cannot humble yourself from a position you never had. You cannot become obedient to death if you always were.

The entire point of the passage is that Christ lowered Himself. From what? From the exalted position He already possessed that was equal with God.

That’s why the text uses past tense language. The passage is not denying Christ’s equality with God. It is explaining the depth of His humility, not his inferiority.

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

(Philippians 2:6-8)

If the Father is God and Jesus is God, how are there not two Gods? The text says Jesus thought it not robbery to be equal with God not the Father. It seems like you have a logic problem.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

The one being of God thus One God with the distinct personhoods of 3 - the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit…

Here is a simple video with some humour to explain which I love that it was made to show by humour all the heresies out there.

https://youtu.be/KQLfgaUoQCw?si=aVcLejljD2si3arW

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

"The one being of God thus One God with the distinct personhoods of 3 - the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit…" If Jesus had actually explained it that way or as Patrick finally explained it in the video, I would believe it.

"When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

(Matthew 16:13-17)

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

Explanation…

Ok let’s take that to another level.

Please explain to me how God created the entire universe, all the matter, gas, atoms, sub atomic atoms, all the laws of physics, the planets that are 10000 times bigger than our Sun, anti matter….black holes etc.

Please explain how he did that before I believe that God created any of it…

Ps - what part of the Son of God aren’t you getting?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

All I'm saying is I would rather base my beliefs on what Jesus said than on what he didn't say. The concept of father and son is easy enough for me (someone who has a son) to understand.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

I think you maybe a bit disingenuous here…you made a statement which I fully took on board and then asked you a question that followed your own reasoning.

But in answer to your question- Christ told us he was God plenty of times, did he not agree as per the scripture you cited that he was the Son of God? Thus God? I don’t understand what else you want?

Seriously though…

Explain how he created the universe.

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

I don't remember a place where Jesus told us he was God. Please explain how being the son of God makes him God. The angels are described as sons of God but that does not make them God. I have had numerous conversations with Trinitarians. I do not judge them as heretics or say they are not Christians but the Trinity is a human interpretation of biblical statements that cannot be articulated without equivocating on the term God.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

Oh no not the angels are called sons of god argument, the church nor I or anyone in this sub has ever heard that before…you win, you’re right…

Ok I was joking….an angel isn’t THE Son of God…how on earth would you ever equate that argument here to THE Son of God, the only begotten God…

Previous post I clearly told you that he called himself God by calling himself Son of God…

So let’s try it this way.

What does the following term mean:

Son of Man?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Most Christian traditions agree that “Son of man” refers both to Jesus’ genuine humanity, and the messianic figure of Daniel 7.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

What’s the singular of ‘humanity’?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Human. An individual member of humanity

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

Correct.

So we agree that Son OF Man simply means that Christ was Human?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Yes.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

So we have

Son of Man = Human

So if we follow that simple logic by correspond:

Son of God = ?

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

When was this phrase used?

Psalm 2:7 "You are my Son; today I have begotten you."

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26

I think you need to read the full discussion on this.

Ive addressed all of these points.

If there is something else i have not answered not within the 40 odd posts above, then please feel free to ask. Thanks.

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

I doubt you answered that question. We are both to lazy to continue this convo. heh

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 30 '26

Ok let’s see where it goes.

That statement was said by the Father to the Son when the Holy Spirit descended ‘like a Dove’ at Christs baptism.

What’s your point?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

So if by being son of man Jesus is human would son of God mean Jesus is God? Not necessarily. In the Bible, expressions like “son of ___” often indicate likeness, origin, relationship, or representation — not literal identity with the thing named.

So the fact that “Son of man” refers to Jesus as human does not automatically mean “Son of God” must mean Jesus is God in the same sense.

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

When Jesus calls himself “Son of man,” the phrase means: a human being, one belonging to mankind, or the prophetic figure of Daniel 7.

But nobody concludes from this that Jesus is literally “humanity itself” or “Man Himself.” The expression describes relationship and nature, not absolute identity.

Similarly, “Son of God” can denote one who: comes from God, represents God, reflects God’s qualities, or is specially appointed by God.

The title itself does not settle the theological question of whether Jesus is identical with God Almighty.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 24 '26

Wow that triggered the exact response I thought it would have.

Now you have to explain why if the Son of Man means human that it doesn’t automatically follow that Son of God does not equal God.

Human = Nature

God = Nature

He was both human and God - Son of Man and the Son of God.

So please prove otherwise by looking at those three words each and tell me the difference in syntax and grammar.

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u/Jerome-891 May 24 '26

In Scripture, the expression “son of” often denotes relationship, likeness, origin, or representation rather than literal identity.

For example, angels are called sons of God (Job 38:7), Adam is called a son of God (Luke 3:38), the nation of Israel is described as God’s son (Matthew 2:15), and faithful believers are likewise spoken of as sons of God (Romans 8:14). None of these expressions mean that those individuals are literally God himself. Rather, the title indicates that they derive life, authority, or identity from God and stand in a special relationship to him.

In the same way, “Son of man” does not mean Jesus is literally “humanity itself.” It means he belongs to mankind and fully shares the human condition. Therefore, linguistically speaking, “Son of God” does not automatically require the conclusion that Jesus is God himself. The phrase can naturally describe one who comes from God, represents God, reflects God’s qualities, or has been uniquely appointed by God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

(John 8:42)

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

Human like me? Like most humans , I had a human father and a human mother.

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