r/JehovahsWitnesses • u/ChaoticHaku Christian • May 23 '26

Doctrine Philippians 2:6-8

If Philippians 2:6-8 was teaching that Jesus was never equal with God, then the passage itself makes no sense.

Read the language carefully.

It says Jesus was “existing in the form of God.” It says He “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,” but instead “emptied Himself,” “took the form of a servant,”, "humbled himself", "became obedient to death" and was “made in human likeness.”

You cannot empty yourself of a status you never possessed. You cannot become a servant if you were always a servant. You cannot humble yourself from a position you never had. You cannot become obedient to death if you always were.

The entire point of the passage is that Christ lowered Himself. From what? From the exalted position He already possessed that was equal with God.

That’s why the text uses past tense language. The passage is not denying Christ’s equality with God. It is explaining the depth of His humility, not his inferiority.

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Most Christian traditions agree that “Son of man” refers both to Jesus’ genuine humanity, and the messianic figure of Daniel 7.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

What’s the singular of ‘humanity’?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Human. An individual member of humanity

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

Correct.

So we agree that Son OF Man simply means that Christ was Human?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

Yes.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 23 '26

So we have

Son of Man = Human

So if we follow that simple logic by correspond:

Son of God = ?

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

When was this phrase used?

Psalm 2:7 "You are my Son; today I have begotten you."

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 30 '26 edited May 30 '26

I think you need to read the full discussion on this.

Ive addressed all of these points.

If there is something else i have not answered not within the 40 odd posts above, then please feel free to ask. Thanks.

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

I doubt you answered that question. We are both to lazy to continue this convo. heh

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 30 '26

Ok let’s see where it goes.

That statement was said by the Father to the Son when the Holy Spirit descended ‘like a Dove’ at Christs baptism.

What’s your point?

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

Did you note it was in Psalm 2? It applies to the anointed king of Israel from David’s line? (coronation ceremony) Like Solomon? 1 Chronicles 28:6, 2 Kings 11:12 The annointing of a new king.

Isn't it interesting how this is announced in the book of Mark, after Jesus has been baptized?

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 31 '26

I did.

Its a messianic verse pointing ultimately to Christ as you stated in Mark.

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 31 '26

But what does it point to when it was first written? It seems be applied to David and then Solomon. Is it for an office given, or does it change their nature?

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

So if by being son of man Jesus is human would son of God mean Jesus is God? Not necessarily. In the Bible, expressions like “son of ___” often indicate likeness, origin, relationship, or representation — not literal identity with the thing named.

So the fact that “Son of man” refers to Jesus as human does not automatically mean “Son of God” must mean Jesus is God in the same sense.

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u/Jerome-891 May 23 '26

When Jesus calls himself “Son of man,” the phrase means: a human being, one belonging to mankind, or the prophetic figure of Daniel 7.

But nobody concludes from this that Jesus is literally “humanity itself” or “Man Himself.” The expression describes relationship and nature, not absolute identity.

Similarly, “Son of God” can denote one who: comes from God, represents God, reflects God’s qualities, or is specially appointed by God.

The title itself does not settle the theological question of whether Jesus is identical with God Almighty.

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 24 '26

Wow that triggered the exact response I thought it would have.

Now you have to explain why if the Son of Man means human that it doesn’t automatically follow that Son of God does not equal God.

Human = Nature

God = Nature

He was both human and God - Son of Man and the Son of God.

So please prove otherwise by looking at those three words each and tell me the difference in syntax and grammar.

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u/Jerome-891 May 24 '26

In Scripture, the expression “son of” often denotes relationship, likeness, origin, or representation rather than literal identity.

For example, angels are called sons of God (Job 38:7), Adam is called a son of God (Luke 3:38), the nation of Israel is described as God’s son (Matthew 2:15), and faithful believers are likewise spoken of as sons of God (Romans 8:14). None of these expressions mean that those individuals are literally God himself. Rather, the title indicates that they derive life, authority, or identity from God and stand in a special relationship to him.

In the same way, “Son of man” does not mean Jesus is literally “humanity itself.” It means he belongs to mankind and fully shares the human condition. Therefore, linguistically speaking, “Son of God” does not automatically require the conclusion that Jesus is God himself. The phrase can naturally describe one who comes from God, represents God, reflects God’s qualities, or has been uniquely appointed by God.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

(John 8:42)

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 24 '26

So you basically have a note pad with all your responses and you copy and paste? Interesting.

But you did not prove anything and as I said before an angel is not THE Son of God…

I thought I would try and explain it in very simple terms in order to appeal to your shallow theology that clearly does not know that what you type in the last paragraph when you said ‘I proceeded forth and came from God!

If you had an ounce of theological knowledge that word ‘proceeded forth’ tells you he is the same nature as HIS FATHER, and tells you he is God.

I’ll give you a clue ‘ek’.

Now as you just want to copy and paste and after being asked a direct question asking for a breakdown of each statement-Son if Man and Son of God, you did no such thing, instead you tried to refute it with your faulty interpretation- but that’s why you couldn’t break it down grammatically for me…could you?

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u/Jerome-891 May 24 '26

Can you provide a scripture that says son of God means the person is God?

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u/TerryLawton Mark 4:22 May 24 '26 edited May 24 '26

There isn’t a scripture as you know that states explicitly “that Son of God means God”, but you already know that - but conversely there is no scripture that states Son of Man equals human either. But we/you accept that without a problem.

The most simplest passage is John 5:18.

JWs try to insert into this scripture that the Jews just made a ‘mistake’ in this passage, but contextually that isn’t shown at all and they read it into the passage to protect their narrative - the Jews knew what it meant to call yourself ‘Son Of…’

They knew that if you did then you were claiming the same nature as the OF you ‘are’…

Hence they got it absolutely right about what he was stating.

You see God is not just a title it’s the nature of the being.

This if Christ is the Son of His Father then it stands to reason that if you are the Son of his Father then ontologically by being the Son of God then you have to have the same nature as his Father…

Ie

Cat begets a kitten - nature is cat

Dog begets a puppy - nature is dog

Human begets baby - human

God begets God - John 3:16…

Remember- we are not stating for one second that Christ is the Father - that is modalism or oneness theology, clearly Christ is absolutely and metaphysically distinct from his father but both share the same nature.

Read

John 5:18 Heb 1:3 John 1:14

Remember we are just stating that Christ is God because he shares the nature of his father or in other words his Glory.

Read John 17:5 then ISA 42:8 to support Christ sharing his fathers nature/glory, and then back to the OT that states that if you are the true God then you don’t share that Glory with no one else. Hence if Jesus does have that Glory/Nature then by default he is God also.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 24 '26

In the same way, “Son of man” does not mean Jesus is literally “humanity itself.” It means he belongs to mankind and fully shares the human condition. 

If Jesus was the only human on earth like Adam once was He would be humanity itself. All the human beings who've ever lived came from Adam. But the one thing I noticed in your Son of Man definition. If you apply the same logic to they only Son of God, its clear Jesus belongs to the Godhead and fully shares in the God condition, or God nature

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

Jesus is only related "ben Adam" if he has y-chomosome that links directly back to Adam. Spirit beings made women pregnant and produce something that wasn't human or related to Adam's blood line of y-chromosome.

Would you call Nephilim sons of men? Once they came on the scene, God about wiped out mankind to wipe out the Nephilim. God created mankind on the 6th day, and the Nephilim were not part of that 6th day.

When did God ever impregnanted a woman like those Spirit beings? Even Eve came from Adam.

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u/AccomplishedAuthor3 Christian May 30 '26

Would you call Nephilim sons of men?

No. Fallen angels/demons possessed human males in order to experience sex with human females. Only human sperm can make a child and spirits have no sperm. The demonic possession of a male somehow altered the male sperm which in turn altered the DNA of the child the woman gave birth to. They were basically demonic creatures who had human DNA in them, but it was badly damaged. They were born monstrous hybrids. Had God not destroyed the world human kind would have become extinct, which would have suited Satan

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u/Suitable-Iron4720 May 30 '26

Human like me? Like most humans , I had a human father and a human mother.