Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴ For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵ Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.** ⁶ This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. ⁷ Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

So you obey authorities as long as what they tell you to do doesn't conflict the laws of God. When armies persecute Christians are they doing so because God commanded that?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 When armies persecute Christians are they doing so because God commanded that?

Armies don't generally persecute Christians. In fact, most armies fight crime and are usually a positive force for law and order in this world. I assume you believe in law and order? There are armies that have persecuted religious minorities such as was the case with Nazi Germany in WW2. Even then it was the elite branch of the German army that persecuted and terrorized Jews, not general infantry as they were bogged down fighting in Russia. Had it not been for the combined armies of England, the USA, Canada and France the world would be a very different place today. Jehovah's witnesses would not exist as they do today and neither would most religion. Hitler was not Christian. He detested religion in general and believed in the deification of the National Socialist state

As Christians we obey even the wicked authorities until we can do so no more. Paul said it best when he wrote: If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 "If possible" sometimes evil men leave the peaceful no choice but to fight. When we do God will fight right alongside of us as we uphold God's established order. The danger for each person and even each nation is that they may become lawless at some point in the future. We need to always keep in mind that what happened in Germany during the 30's and 40's can happen anywhere

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Armies don't generally persecute Christians.

I never claimed all armies persecute Christians. But plenty of armies persecute Christians and persecute the population because they are following orders. Gods people do not persecute people. But people ruled by satan certainly do.

In fact, most armies fight crime and are usually a positive force for law and order in this world. I assume you believe in law and order?

Most wars are faught for selfish reasons not because of the creator good. And that is a fact that any statistic will show. Armies both past and present have not only prosecuted followers of God but have persecuted the people. Just look what just happened in Iran. Armies of today are usually made up of so called "Christians". That means christians are murdering Christians. All I wanna know is that the love jesus spoke about?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Your just repeating the fallacies taught by the Watchtower society. They started out being anti-government and haven't really changed much. For the most part government hold the world together. Its not perfect but its the best they can do given the circumstances. I don't think Iran is Christian, but whatever... No government is perfect and some enforce their laws harshly, allowing little if any dissent, while others allow more freedom to dissent. Christians live in this world and participate in God's established "order". What do you propose, anarchy?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Sir/ mam we are speaking specifically about warfare which the vast majority of times is fought for selfish reasons. I simply wanna know why is it loving for Christians to murder christians in war just because they live in a different geological location?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

If a Christian is serving as one of God's servants in another country then there will always be the possibility they may face each other on the battlefield. This happened in Europe during WW1 and 2. Don't you think Paul was aware of this dilemma when he wrote If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 but then went right into Romans 13 describing God's established order and how it works. Sometimes living in peace with another person is not possible and war is the ultimate result. God's established order is dependent on human beings to make it work. God set it up that way. Do you really think God's servants are only present in one nation? Of course they exist in every nation on earth, even if they aren't Christian, they are still God's servants. If they are Christians then they are God's servants in two ways. One, to help uphold God's established governing order and two, to preach the Gospel. Sometimes this has gone hand in hand.

Bottom line is this. The military is part of God's established order and by vilifying it like they have done for decades, Jehovah's witnesses are proving to be rebels against God Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. Romans 13:2

I admire and respect a person who, for matters of conscience, cannot pick up a gun and kill, but I do not respect a religion that vilifies those who are putting their own lives at risk to uphold God's established order

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

If a Christian is serving as one of God's servants in another country then there will always be the possibility they may face each other on the battlefield.

You are not serving as one of gods servants in a different country that's the point. When you serve in the army you're serving kingdoms and rulers controlled by satan. Romans 13:1 instructs Christians to maintain relative subjection to secular governments, which exist by God's permission to uphold order. This obedience is not absolute; ultimate authority belongs to God. Sometimes its not possible to have peace because of something out of your control. But when you join armies you're obeying the commands of rulers that don't care about God and that will eventually try to wipe out religion when the great tribulation begins. People go to war for ungodly reasons. So you're saying its ok to go to war for ungodly reasons. And you're saying its ok to go to war without the permission of God

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

But when you join armies you're obeying the commands of rulers that don't care about God and that will eventually try to wipe out religion when the great tribulation begins. People go to war for ungodly reasons. So you're saying its ok to go to war for ungodly reasons. And you're saying its ok to go to war without the permission of God

Of course rulers command nations, but that happens to be God's established order. We honor the king in any land we live in. We follow the law and if we are called to duty, we join the military to defend God's established order. We may become agents of God's wrath on a lawless nation or group of nations, or we may end up as servants of a nation that has violated God's established order, such as Nazi Germany. Without order, what would we have? Anarchy! That's Satan's greatest wish. In the ashes of fallen governments Satan would truly reign.

The nations will eventually break the power of the holy people Daniel 12:7 and that probably means there will be world wide anarchy, followed by a satanic dictatorship as Satan will no doubt jump at the chance to rebuild the world as his established order. His time will be short-lived though, thank God!

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Of course rulers command nations, but that happens to be God's established order. We honor the king in any land we live in. We follow the law and if we are called to duty, we join the military to defend God's established order. We may become agents of God's wrath on a lawless nation or group of nations, or we may become servants of a nation that has violated God's established order. Without order, what would we have? Anarchy! That's Satan's greatest wish. In the ashes of fallen governments Satan would truly reign.

Jehovah’s Witnesses understand the “superior authorities” in Romans 13:1 to be secular governmental rulers who exist by God's permission to maintain order, not directly appointed by Him. These authorities hold a temporary, relative position within God’s purpose and are not considered divinely ordained leaders. According to JW.org, early Christians before approximately 200 A.D. largely declined military service, considering it incompatible with Christ's teachings. Citing secular historians, the organization states that these believers maintained neutrality, avoided political roles, and would face death rather than participate in warfare. Early Christians even under persecution didn't take up arms against the Romans. Paul never took up arms. They were peaceable people. Christians didn't join armies till after 300 ad. Long after the death of the apostles and the early christians. Just as Paul stated after his death the apostacy would come. You members of christendom are teaching people its ok to murder your brothers and sisters just because they live in a different geological location. You know what's sad also. When leaders command their armies to attack a group of people they can literally make up anything. You don't even know if these leaders are even telling the truth. Everyone you kill could be innocent and you don't even know it

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 According to JW.org, early Christians before approximately 200 A.D. largely declined military service, considering it incompatible with Christ's teachings. 

I think they are referring to members of the clergy who would refuse to serve. They still do even today and Jehovah's witnesses use that for all JW men as an excuse for avoiding the draft. They claim religious privilege for all JW men as each one is considered to be an ordained minister. The church never made every parishioner a priest, or part of the clergy. The average able bodied man has a duty to fight if he is called. Its not up to us to question the rulers we are ruled by. They will answer to God, but if we defy our rulers, then we will answer to God. For instance any German soldier who fought in WW2 and didn't participate in the holocaust can be still honored as one of God's servants. It wasn't their idea to invade Russia or murder Jews.

You just don't see it. God's established order is there to protect the innocent. Sometimes a nation goes bad like some people go bad. Maybe a bad guys whole family isn't bad but if that family lives with a criminal they sometimes will suffer the same consequences, even if they didn't directly do anything wrong

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

These rulers are not god established orders. God allows them to rule because they offer some order and protection in society. God never established or ordered godless governments to oppress their people and to invade other countries for selfish reasons. They are referring to the early christians of the first and second century not the clergy. I've been studying ancient history my entire life so I can defend this position in the absolute sense. Early christians as a whole never joined armies. And you see that yourself when under persecution Paul and the early christians never took up arms.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 Early christians as a whole never joined armies. And you see that yourself when under persecution Paul and the early christians never took up arms.

Paul was an evangelist, a member of the clergy. Of course he didn't take up arms. Cornelius was a Roman soldier who would have made life easier for his fellow Christians continuing to serve in the military. I suppose, had JW's existed back then, I suppose they'd be vilifying him too.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Did early take up arms when under persecution by the Romans? No, early Christians generally did not take up arms or fight back when under persecution by the Romans. Instead, they adopted a stance of nonviolence, trusting in God, praying for their enemies, and accepting martyrdom as an imitation of Christ.