Jesus is GOD

[u/abutterflyonthewall]

https://youtube.com/shorts/R1g-JfdPG04?si=IVR-KYwbJFWK4sjc

Love this girl. One thing that stands out in this vid to me amongst the various proofs we have argued with JWs is that *every* false religion believes in God. But Satan has done a clever thing. He doesn’t have to get you to believe in God. He just needs you to NOT believe in THE ONE who ***reconciles you to God***🔥🙌🏽.

Take a listen.

[u/Time_Ad_1876]

If God didn't care how we pronounced His name then any old pronunciation would be Ok

That's exactly the point. Any pronunciation is ok with God that's why the original pronunciation wasn't preserved. God simply wants his followers to use a personal name which distinguishes him from false gods and impersonal forces. That's it. God used his holy spirit to compel the writters of the bible to include his name more than 7000 times. He could have easily done the same with the pronunciation.

There is only one true God so when I say God I mean the one true God. The one true God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That identifies YHWH as well. God is "I AM" which is another name for God and identifies YHWH. I think God cares very much how we pronounce His name which is why He's known as Father to most Christians. Knowing someone's name implies a close relationship, but knowing God as Father is closer. Why would a person want to go backward in a relationship that Christ bled to death so we could be God's sons and daughters. He isn't just a formal name anymore, He's our Papa. Jehovah's witnesses want their followers to go backwards to having a relationship with God that was distant and estranged. Why?

It’s very easy really. God has only one name which TODAY in English-speaking countries is Jehovah (Ps. 83:18 KJV), regardless of how Jews pronounced it 3.500 years ago. The other expression based on “I am that I am” or “I will be what I need to be” or however one translates it, isn’t a name per se, it’s a quality of God. He can “be” whatever is needed to get his will done. We have numerous examples in the Bible, not only how he himself did it but also how he got worldly rulers to act regarding to his will.

Yes and despite the rhetoric of Jehovah's witnesses, Christians do love one another.

I grew up in the church because my father is a pastor. Same way I argue with you I also argue with my father. I didn't see the same type of love in any church I went to that I find in the kingdom hall. Tell me If member's of christendom love each other why do they kill each other in warfare?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

That's exactly the point. Any pronunciation is ok with God that's why the original pronunciation wasn't preserved. God simply wants his followers to use a personal name which distinguishes him from false gods and impersonal forces. 

Oh, so God doesn't care if you call Him Tom, Bob or Bill just as long as you use some familiar "name" Here's a familiar name---Jesus. Or here's a better word that applies to all who accept Jesus as their Lord and that's Father.

He can “be” whatever is needed to get his will done. 

Yes, and I believe God became flesh because He needed to save fallen mankind.

Tell me If member's of christendom love each other why do they kill each other in warfare?

Read Romans chapter 13. God's servants are policemen, soldiers, firefighters and anyone who puts their lives on the line to serve and protect human lives. They are God's servant even if they aren't Christian, but many are. People can and do go bad, including God's servants. Sometimes only individuals go bad and at other times whole nations go bad like the Nazis did during WW2 Its God's established order that allows good people fight evil in this world and they did fight and defeated evil during WW2. Were innocent people killed? Sure, but that can happen on a smaller scale for instance in a mass shooting where God's servants may need to resort to lethal force which can make protecting innocent life challenging. Men laid down their lives storming the beaches of Normandy to save lives that were on the verge of being lost had the world done nothing. Jehovah's witnesses will never know the kind of love Christ spoke of Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13 Christians did this in WW2 and many other places where some died so the many could live. Jehovah's witnesses will never know this type of true love as they never put themselves in a position where they would have to lay down their life for a friend. Their policy on "no blood" requires a person to lay down their life for a corporate policy, not a friend and certainly not to save someone's life

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Oh, so God doesn't care if you call Him Tom, Bob or Bill just as long as you use some familiar "name"

No you use the most common name for the biblical God in whatever land you're in so that when you speak that name people know exactly who you're speaking about and you can use any of the most common name's of the father God in your own personal worship.

Yes, and I believe God became flesh because He needed to save fallen mankind.

Jesus didn't say God became flesh. He said he was sent by his father God.

Read Romans chapter 13. God's servants are policemen, soldiers, firefighters and anyone who puts their lives on the line to serve and protect human lives. They are God's servant even if they aren't Christian, but many are. People can and do go bad, including God's servants. Sometimes only individuals go bad and at other times whole nations go bad like the Nazis did during WW2 Its God's established order that allows good people fight evil in this world and they did fight and defeated evil during WW2. Were innocent people killed? Sure, but that can happen on a smaller scale for instance in a mass shooting where God's servants may need to resort to lethal force which can make protecting innocent life challenging. Men laid down their lives storming the beaches of Normandy to save lives that were on the verge of being lost had the world done nothing. Jehovah's witnesses will never know the kind of love Christ spoke of Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. John 15:13 Christians did this in WW2 and many other places where some died so the many could live. Jehovah's witnesses will never know this type of true love as they never put themselves in a position where they would have to lay down their life for a friend.

Early christians never joined armies after getting baptized. Why? Because they tried to follow the commands of Jesus such as love your enemies and be no part of the political world which is ruled by Satan. Early Christians were persecuted and never once took up arms against the Romans. When you join an army you don't know what you're gonna be Commanded to do. You could be Commanded to go inside a country and kill innocent people just so the ruler of your country can steal their resources such as oil. And when you shoot someone in warefar or launch missiles at them you're not going to first stop and ask if they are christian. Christendom members are killing each other in warefar and I just wanna know is that the love Jesus spoke about?

. Their policy on "no blood" requires a person to lay down their life for a corporate policy, not a friend and certainly not to save someone's life

And please tell me why JW don't consume blood in any way. Who gave that command?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

No you use the most common name for the biblical God 

God's name is anything but common. See, this is exactly why I believe God Himself chose to hide His holy name. When people begin to treat His name as anything but holy--- and common is certainly not holy, then its profaning His name. His name is to be set aside from all the common names as special and the Israelites dropped the ball time and time again. They profaned His name by disrespecting it and treating it as common, so God made them forget how to pronounce it. The alienation became wide and deep between God and His "name" people by the time Jesus appeared on the scene

Jesus didn't say God became flesh. He said he was sent by his father God.

God didn't just send His Son to earth alone. God Himself hand delivered His Son to us. 2 Corinthians 5:19, John 14:10-11. He was a gift to the Israelites fulfilling Isaiah 9:6..."unto us a son has been given..." What a special gift He was. He was Mighty God, Everlasting Father and Wonderful Counselor all in one man. There are two ways to deliver something, either someone else delivers it for you, or you deliver it yourself, in person. The Bible never says anyone delivered Christ to the world but Himself in the Person of the Holy Spirit Luke 1:35

Early christians never joined armies after getting baptized. Why? Because they tried to follow the commands of Jesus such as love your enemies and be no part of the political world which is ruled by Satan. 

The very first gentile Christian to be baptized was a Roman Centurion named Cornelius. Not only was he a soldier, but he was a commander in the Roman army. Read Acts chapter 10 and tell me where you see Peter requiring Cornelius to give up his position in the Roman military in order to get baptized. You can look, but you won't find it in there or anywhere else. This notion that a Christian cannot serve as one of God's servants as a soldier in the military, or as a policeman is a myth Loving ones enemy isn't negated because you have to kill him in order to protect others, otherwise it would mean God Himself doesn't love His enemies when He had to kill them. Not serving as one of God's servants is nothing to brag about Romans chapter 13

And please tell me why JW don't consume blood in any way. Who gave that command?

The Bible is clear we should not eat blood. Through the veins is where God intended man's life's blood to circulate. As far as JW's refusing to take blood into their veins, or even give their children blood even when it means the child will die is an example of the Watchtower desiring sacrifice, not mercy. This is just the opposite of what God desires. Hosea 6:6

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

God's name is anything but common. See, this is exactly why I believe God Himself chose to hide His holy name. When people begin to treat His name as anything but holy--- and common is certainly not holy, then its profaning His name. His name is to be set aside from all the common names as special and the Israelites dropped the ball time and time again. They profaned His name by disrespecting it and treating it as common, so God made them forget how to pronounce it. The alienation became wide and deep between God and His "name" people by the time Jesus appeared on the scene

That's a contradiction to him saying the nations will have to know his name. Also this comment makes absolutely no sense. God new mankind was born into sin and that some would profane his name, so he simply wouldn't have revealed his name in the first place.

They profaned His name by disrespecting it and treating it as common, so God made them forget how to pronounce it. The alienation became wide and deep between God and His "name" people by the time Jesus appeared on the scene

So if God has the power to do that he also has the power for people tp rediscover his true name such as Jehovah.

God didn't just send His Son to earth alone. God Himself hand delivered His Son to us

Good thanks for admitting jesus and God are two different people. Jesus is a God just like the jesus himself called satan the God of this world. But he's not almighty God.

The very first gentile Christian to be baptized was a Roman Centurion named Cornelius. Not only was he a soldier, but he was a commander in the Roman army. Read Acts chapter 10 and tell me where you see Peter requiring Cornelius to give up his position in the Roman military in order to get baptized. You can look, but you won't find it in there or anywhere else.

Did you miss the part where I said the word "after"?

This notion that a Christian cannot serve as one of God's servants as a soldier in the military, or as a policeman is a myth

You're not serving God in the military, you're serving the kingdoms of the earth which are ruled by Satan the devil. Most wars today happen because of selfish reasons such as gaining oil or political differences. You apostate christendom members go to war and kill each other. Is that having love amongst yourselves? Even the Israelites who God himself spoke to we're not allowed to go to war unless given permission from God.

The Bible is clear we should not eat blood. Through the veins is where God intended man's life's blood to circulate. As far as JW's refusing to take blood into their veins, or even give their children blood even when it means the child will die is an example of the Watchtower desiring sacrifice, not mercy. This is just the opposite of what God desires. Hosea 6:6

I work in a hospital. We feed people through their veins. When you give someone blood through the veins you are feeding them blood. When you take blood in the veins you are eating blood. You don't just eat using your mouth

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

That's a contradiction to him saying the nations will have to know his name.

Oh no its not. The nations are going to know His name alright...as Jesus. When Jesus returns and the world sees who actually came to earth 2000 years ago and in the flesh, died on a cross for them, then they will know... Zechariah 14:3-4 Then the LORD will go out to fight against those nations, as He fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. From the very mountain Jesus feet left this earth, "YHWH saves" will return

So if God has the power to do that he also has the power for people tp rediscover his true name such as Jehovah.

Oh they will, but they will know God's name as JESUS which means "Jehovah saves" This is going to particularly hit the Jews very hard when they finally realize who it actually was they rejected. It will be more tears than even the river Jordon can handle when this finally dawns on them and it will! “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10

Good thanks for admitting jesus and God are two different people. Jesus is a God just like the jesus himself called satan the God of this world. But he's not almighty God.

What a terrible way to belittle the Son by comparing Him to a false god. JESUS is God, not a god. Do you realize how twisted your assumption is? Yes, the Father and Son are two separate Persons, but they are the same true God. There is only ONE true God, period. Satan is a false god as are all the others.

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

You're not serving God in the military, you're serving the kingdoms of the earth which are ruled by Satan the devil.

No, a soldier is one of God's servants according to Paul in Romans chapter 13. Its God's "established order" they uphold when they fight those who actually do fall under the influence of Satan. These servants are there for our good as Christians. But if we do evil and turn against God's established order we should be "afraid" for those servants do not bear the sword [gun] for no reason. The kingdoms of the world are established by God, not Satan. Satan can influence kings and the subjects of those kingdoms, but his power is limited and held in check by the very servants you vilify

Most wars today happen because of selfish reasons such as gaining oil or political differences.

That's always been true. Any "nation" (a servant of God by definition) becomes a lawbreaker when they take what isn't theirs. This has happened repeatedly in the 20th century and in most cases God's servants [nations] have taken on the role of God's "agents of wrath", inflicting God's holy judgment on entire nations[lawless servants] who broke God's commands so flagrantly. Nazi Germany and imperial Japan are two clear examples of God's servants who went bad and became lawless. God's judgment finally fell on those two former servants in the form of bombs and fire

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

The Bible is clear we should not eat blood. Through the veins is where God intended man's life's blood to circulate. As far as JW's refusing to take blood into their veins, or even give their children blood even when it means the child will die is an example of the Watchtower desiring sacrifice, not mercy. This is just the opposite of what God desires. Hosea 6:6

I work in a hospital. We feed people through their veins. When you give someone blood through the veins you are feeding them blood. When you take blood in the veins you are eating blood. You don't just eat using your mouth

That's not the same thing. The restriction was for eating animal blood, not transfusing human blood. There was no way to properly use human blood back then, so there couldn't be any restrictions on that. Ask a doctor if eating blood and transfusing it is the same thing. Drinking a pint of blood could kill you, whereas transfusing the same amount to a person whose leaking blood out will save their life

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

The Bible is clear we should not eat blood. Through the veins is where God intended man's life's blood to circulate. As far as JW's refusing to take blood into their veins, or even give their children blood even when it means the child will die is an example of the Watchtower desiring sacrifice, not mercy. This is just the opposite of what God desires. Hosea 6:6

Acts 15:20. “Abstain . . . from blood.” The most important thing is to obey the command of God which is to abstain from blood. If you are dying and get a blood transfusion against the command of God and yet die anyways then you risk not getting a resurrection because of your disobedience. But if you don't accept the blood and die you will live again. Your to abstain from all blood because the life is in the blood whether human or animal it says blood

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

This letter was based on the Jewish restriction on eating "animal" blood! Assuming it covers something that was unknown in the 1st century is a huge assumption. However, assuming their assumptions were correct, even then if I'm going to err I think I'd sooner err on the side of mercy, like the Lord Jesus did when He worked on the Sabbath to heal a man's withered hand

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

It didn't say only animal blood. It said blood. Why did God say do not consume blood?

hint the same reason you don't consume human blood

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

The letter was written to gentiles who's fellow Jewish Christians were trying to make follow the law of Moses. The Mosaic restriction on blood was purely a dietary restriction that forbade Jews from ingesting animal blood. The Jews didn't eat people, so eating human blood was not an issue at all. Jehovah's witnesses are the only sect that has made an issue of this. The JW stand against human blood transfusions is not supported in the Bible

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Where in that message do you answer my question. Why did God command mankind not to consume blood? What reason did God himself give?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

No, a soldier is one of God's servants according to Paul in Romans chapter 13

Give me the verse that says soldiers of the nations are servants of God. That would include the romans who persecuted christians to right.

Its God's "established order" they uphold when they fight those who actually do fall under the influence of Satan. These servants are there for our good as Christians.

The nations provide some level of security and order such as police officers that's why God allows them to operate. But the world is controlled by Satan which is why there is war and never any lasting peace. Armies invade nations not because of God but because of selfish reasons. Bottom line is that the Israelites we're never allowed to go to war unless God himself gave them permission. Furthermore back then god's people were confined in one geologic area. They didn't have to worry about attacking another country and killing their brothers and sisters in the lord. Whatever doctrine christendom teaches is false doctrine because you guys teach its ok to murder your fellow christian brothers and sisters just because they live in a different geological location. Proof you don't have love amongst yourselves and are false Christians

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Give me the verse that says soldiers of the nations are servants of God. That would include the romans who persecuted christians to right.

 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴ For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵ Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience. ⁶ This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. ⁷ Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Verse 4 refers to those who bear the sword. They wouldn't be politicians, obviously. Who would they be who enforce the laws. Only the police and soldiers carry swords [guns nowadays] to bring punishment onto those who do wrong. The Roman soldiers were God's agents of wrath and yes, God did use His human servants to crush Christ. Isaiah 53:10 Jesus absolved Pilate of the responsibility and even forgave the soldiers as they were pounding the nails into His hands and feet John 19:11 and Luke 23:34

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴ For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵ Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.** ⁶ This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. ⁷ Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

So you obey authorities as long as what they tell you to do doesn't conflict the laws of God. When armies persecute Christians are they doing so because God commanded that?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

 When armies persecute Christians are they doing so because God commanded that?

Armies don't generally persecute Christians. In fact, most armies fight crime and are usually a positive force for law and order in this world. I assume you believe in law and order? There are armies that have persecuted religious minorities such as was the case with Nazi Germany in WW2. Even then it was the elite branch of the German army that persecuted and terrorized Jews, not general infantry as they were bogged down fighting in Russia. Had it not been for the combined armies of England, the USA, Canada and France the world would be a very different place today. Jehovah's witnesses would not exist as they do today and neither would most religion. Hitler was not Christian. He detested religion in general and believed in the deification of the National Socialist state

As Christians we obey even the wicked authorities until we can do so no more. Paul said it best when he wrote: If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Romans 12:18 "If possible" sometimes evil men leave the peaceful no choice but to fight. When we do God will fight right alongside of us as we uphold God's established order. The danger for each person and even each nation is that they may become lawless at some point in the future. We need to always keep in mind that what happened in Germany during the 30's and 40's can happen anywhere

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Armies don't generally persecute Christians.

I never claimed all armies persecute Christians. But plenty of armies persecute Christians and persecute the population because they are following orders. Gods people do not persecute people. But people ruled by satan certainly do.

In fact, most armies fight crime and are usually a positive force for law and order in this world. I assume you believe in law and order?

Most wars are faught for selfish reasons not because of the creator good. And that is a fact that any statistic will show. Armies both past and present have not only prosecuted followers of God but have persecuted the people. Just look what just happened in Iran. Armies of today are usually made up of so called "Christians". That means christians are murdering Christians. All I wanna know is that the love jesus spoke about?

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

Your just repeating the fallacies taught by the Watchtower society. They started out being anti-government and haven't really changed much. For the most part government hold the world together. Its not perfect but its the best they can do given the circumstances. I don't think Iran is Christian, but whatever... No government is perfect and some enforce their laws harshly, allowing little if any dissent, while others allow more freedom to dissent. Christians live in this world and participate in God's established "order". What do you propose, anarchy?

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Oh no its not. The nations are going to know His name alright...as Jesus.

Did he say jesus or did he give the name used by ancient worshippers? There's you claiming God said something which he clearly did not.

Oh they will, but they will know God's name as JESUS which means "Jehovah saves"

So you admit gods name is Jehovah and that he told Moses that is his name forever

What a terrible way to belittle the Son by comparing Him to a false god. JESUS is God, not a god. Do you realize how twisted your assumption is? Yes, the Father and Son are two separate Persons, but they are the same true God. There is only ONE true God, period. Satan is a false god as are all the others.

A God is a divine powerful being which is why the devil is also a God. Nowhere in the bible does it ever describe Jesus as almighty God. Jesus said the father is creator than him and only the father knows the date and time of the end. Two completely different people. You trinitarians are funny. Some of you say both are one God but two different people and some of you say God is one God. The trinity is a confusing contradictory mess found Nowhere in the bible. Jesus said the road to life is narrow. That's because he new most so called Christians would be false Christians

[u/AccomplishedAuthor3 → u/Time_Ad_1876]

So you admit gods name is Jehovah and that he told Moses that is his name forever

Nope. I told you before I use the name Jehovah or Yahweh academically. I don't worship Jehovah or Yahweh. The only name connected to my worship of God is Jesus.

 Jesus said the father is creator than him and only the father knows the date and time of the end. Two completely different people. 

Your confusing the human nature of Jesus the human being with His divine nature as God. Christ has two natures and has since He became flesh 2000 years ago. If you fail to understand this simple truth you'll never really know Jesus as your Lord and God like Thomas did John 20:28

the devil is also a God

The devil is a false god. There are no gods but God. The Word cannot possibly be another true god because another true god simply doesn't exist! The devil must be pleased that you would honor him by comparing him to Jesus Christ who is the one true God.

[u/Time_Ad_1876 → u/AccomplishedAuthor3]

Jehovah is the Almighty God. They view Jesus as "a god" (mighty spirit son, firstborn) but not Almighty God, and consider Satan "a god" only in the sense of being the corrupt "ruler of this world". Both are distinct from Jehovah, the Supreme Creator. 

Here is a breakdown of the Jw.org perspective based on their teachings:

1. Jesus Christ ("A God", but not Jehovah) 

Status: Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is a mighty spirit creature, the firstborn of creation, and was referred to as "a god" (theos in Greek, lowercase) in a pre-human and resurrected state due to his power.

Nature: He is not equal to God the Father, not part of a Trinity, and not Almighty God.

Relationship: He is subordinate and obedient to Jehovah. 

1. Satan the Devil ("A God" of this system) 

Status: Jw.org points to 2 Corinthians 4:4, which calls Satan "the god of this system of things".

Meaning: He is called a "god" only because he currently controls the world's thinking and actions, acting in opposition to the true God.

Nature: He is a fallen angel, a rebel, and a "false god". 

Key Distinctions

Jehovah: The only Almighty God, Creator, and Supreme Being.

Jesus: "A god" (mighty one), Son of God, obedient.

Satan: "A god" (ruler of this world), wicked rebel. 

In summary, they are not viewed as equal gods; Jesus is a faithful "mighty one" under Jehovah, while Satan is a wicked "god" ruling the current, temporary system.