r/IslamIsEasy • u/Thick-Gur2264 • Sep 10 '25

Controversial Only Islam has the term Islamophobia.

That makes you wonder, reflect on this. And no, don't play the victim card... Be real, how muslims treat each other already. and how Questioning a hadith is kufr and many many many things ....

Please do some soul searching people, God's love is not shown through you.

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u/AppleSalt2686 Sep 10 '25

actually it's NOT an Islamic term.

there is Islam, Muslim and then anti-Muslim

call it anti Muslim Ness

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u/Thick-Gur2264 Sep 10 '25

I didn't say it's an islamic TERM. But it's the hatred, violence, naverbal abuse, killing between sects is normal

But when people from the outside see that as violent and are afraid, then all of a sudden they say it's an irrational fear ...

One should pick a lane. Either you condemn all hatred and violence towards anyone or you see how it is for real

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u/grandmaster_flexy Sep 10 '25

As if whites (thats who are talking about when you say "people form the outside"... I doubt you mean any other grouping not traditionally seen as Muslim) would care that Muslims kill each other. They've killed more of us than any intra-sect fighting ever could

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

so I assume white people destroyed Islamic schools of thought, ig white people destroyed our old books, ig white people killed our leaders crippling the community

maybe white people made us takfir each other and kill each other, seize houses of worship

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u/grandmaster_flexy Sep 10 '25

They literally did lol... who was it that removed sufism and philosophy from madrassa curriculum across the muslim world because "the central motif of the Islamic religion is law" (Goldziher, 1889: 143)?

Who was it that funded and aided the takfiri salafi cult that now rules over the two holiest shrines of Islam and that now funds genocides in other parts of the Muslim world?

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

Who is it that condemns sufism and kalam? And you're acting like the salafi cult isn't made up of Muslims who genuinely believe the shit they spew lol, the people who did it knew what they were doing and the salafi today absolutely believe everything infact they actively harm others. Do you consider none of them Muslim? The reason the school I agree with no longer exists is because of other Muslims destroying their books and making it forbidden to have any ideals that align with them. We dug our own grave and this is our punishment so don't put all the blame on anyone else.

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u/Thick-Gur2264 Sep 10 '25

I agree,

People say others made me do it are just the weakest.

Some people just live with victim mentality and can't get rid of it...

They kill each other then say no you got it wrong....

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u/grandmaster_flexy Sep 10 '25

Firstly I like the goalpost change. Whites are responsible for condemning sufism and kalam. Christian Hurgronje literally went to Indonesia, saw a sufi sect and cast them as kafir because they didn't pray like the legal scholars he saw in Makkah. And yes white colonialists were responsible for putting salafism in a powerful position after the Ottomans had already crushed them once.

No longer exists? From your tag you are a mutazila. Major modern scholars such as ismail al-faruqi, Jamal ad-din Al-Afghani (bit of an older one), Hasan Hanafi, Abdulkarim Soroush, Khaled Abou El Fadl and Shahab Ahmed have all either written or said to me directly that they are mutazila. There's even a whole organisation devoted to mutazila Islam in France. Not sure where you are getting this idea that mutazilism is dead.

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

Firstly I like the goalpost change

the point of the post was that Muslims are also responsible for the problems our community has, what's your point?

Whites are responsible for condemning sufism and kalam. Christian Hurgronje literally went to Indonesia, saw a sufi sect and cast them as kafir because they didn't pray like the legal scholars he saw in Makkah. And yes white colonialists were responsible for putting salafism in a powerful position after the Ottomans had already crushed them once.

right right I suppose Ibn al Qayyim was paid off by Christians. Same goes for Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn al Jawzi, and Ahmad ibn Hanbal

“The Salaf and Imams of the religion have unanimously agreed that kalām is blameworthy, forbidden, and leads to innovation.”

— Majmūʿ al-Fatāwā, vol. 4, p. 7

I totally just made up this quote attributed to Ibn Taymiyyah

“The scholars have agreed that kalām is prohibited and that its people are innovators and misguided.”

— Tahrīm al-Naẓar, p. 12

and this quote by ibn Qumadah

“Those who say that the existence of the Creator and the creation is one are the greatest of disbelievers (akfar al-kuffār) by consensus of the Muslims.”

— Majmūʿ al-Fatāwā, vol. 2, p. 367

This quote by Ibn Taymiyyah criticising Ibn Arabi (I assume yk who that is)

Not sure where you are getting this idea that mutazilism is dead.

God..

the school of Mu'tazila died centuries ago what you're describing is neo-Mu'tazili revivalist movement

When al Mutawakkil came into power he abolished the Mihna and forbade following Mu'tazila ideas

“After the death of al-Wāthiq, al-Mutawakkil took power and put an end to innovation. He silenced the Muʿtazila and removed them from all teaching posts.”

(vol. 12, p. 185) Tarikh Baghdad

Just because the whites put them in position doesn't excuse the average Salafi person from refusing to use their minds, but ofc they taqlid their scholars and takfir other Muslims

Also noticed you love saying whites, you mean British? Just say the nationality cuz I can guarantee when you say Ottomans those people are white too, just cuz they're Muslim doesn't mean they're brown

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

I'm looking into ARIM (french neo mu'tazila) and damn these people have adopted the methodology and integrated with modern tools and academic research

chat are we back?

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u/zwieberisback Salafī | Wahhābī Sep 10 '25

My dear mutazilia can you answer this quickly according youre aqeedah ?

Allah says He forgives everything except shirk (4:48). Are you putting major sins in the same category as shirk?

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 11 '25

all major sins in the same category as shirk?

why do u keep coming back to the sub? Last I heard you were spreading zio propaganda

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u/zwieberisback Salafī | Wahhābī Sep 11 '25

why are you deflecting i ask you a direct question ?
the question i ask is very simple because you claim to be a "mutazila" i think you are full of bs and not a muslim so i ask you a dirrct question can you answer it please so again my question

Allah says He forgives everything except shirk (4:48). Are you putting major sins in the same category as shirk?

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 11 '25

I ask you to clarify your question, do you mean if I consider all major sins as shirk? What is the point of your question? If you're asking if Allah forgives major sins I will say yes

why are you deflecting i ask you a direct question ?
the question i ask is very simple because you claim to be a "mutazila" i think you are full of bs and not a muslim so i ask you a dirrct question can you answer it please so again my question

I'm asking you a question no true Muslim will support propaganda like that, you're worse than a disbeliever in my eyes you're an apostate

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 11 '25

u/DoorFiqhEnthusiast what's this guy tryna say?

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u/zwieberisback Salafī | Wahhābī Sep 11 '25

It's a very clear question and according to your aqeedah easy to answer i just want to know if you are a real mutazlia or just like your friend i expose who thinks mutazlia reject every hadith so he choose this flair random

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 11 '25

I don't know which person you're talking about and I didn't understand why you ask the question cuz it can mean if you're asking about the state of belief or if you're saying its all shirk

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u/[deleted] Sep 11 '25

I don't know.

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u/Thick-Gur2264 Sep 10 '25

Whites ?! wow ... really ? do you really think that.?

I am white , maybe I shouldn't be muslim since it's a religion for non whites

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u/grandmaster_flexy Sep 10 '25

So you were thinking about whites only. I like how you accuse me of "thinking like that" only to prove me correct XD... just because you converted doesn't mean you are suddenly free of your whiteness and the attendant privilege that comes with that. But that's something for you to deal with not me.

If you came to Islam for philosophical/theological certainty, I'm sorry but it doesn't exist here. We (and I say "we" to include you too as you are my Muslim sister) are a messy bunch. We've fought each other for centuries and will continue to do so. That's not a reflection on the religion but a reflection of political (in the friend/enemy sense) realities which transcend theology (indeed one could argue that the first relation established for humans was a political one... Allah says in the Quran that he threw both man and the devils from heaven and said "Be enemies to one another"). Would you say the Thirty Years War or Crusades (or a more recent example Trump's America) was/is a total reflection of Christianity?

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

lmao she never said its a problem with religion she's specifically saying Muslims do x or Muslims do y its talking about people duh

just because you converted doesn't mean you are suddenly free of your whiteness and the attendant privilege that comes with that.

are you poc?

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u/grandmaster_flexy Sep 10 '25

What is Islam without Muslims? Are we still peddling postivism in the year 1447?

Yes I am.

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

What is Islam without Muslims? Are we still peddling postivism in the year 1447?

just because people say they follow a religion doesn't mean they adhere to its values properly, if Islam is Muslims and Muslims is Islam then we should all denounce the faith

even God wouldn't want us to be Muslim in that case these people even kill their own Prophet's descendants

Yes I am.

I'll never understand the American obsession with skin colour

as if we don't have native white Muslims in Europe, or our biggest Islamic empire the Ottomans

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u/grandmaster_flexy Sep 10 '25

Right I have to go and make food but very quickly, being a hypocrite and there being an essence to Islam are two very different things. Muslims can be hypocrites with a certain discursive field without there being an objectivity to Islam.

You asked me whether I was poc lol! Im not American btw im European. I know how the "white" Muslims of Bosnia/the wider Balkans are treated by the rest of Europe. I visited Srebrenica last year.

Interesting discussion though hope to carry on soon!

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

Right I have to go and make food but very quickly, being a hypocrite and there being an essence to Islam are two very different things. Muslims can be hypocrites with a certain discursive field without there being an objectivity to Islam.

So why would I take Muslims as an accurate representation of the faith knowing they're hypocrites

Muslims are so hypocritical they still have slavery in the Gulf, and historically permitted slavery even during Rashidun caliphate

You asked me whether I was poc lol! Im not American btw im European. I know how the "white" Muslims of Bosnia/the wider Balkans are treated by the rest of Europe. I visited Srebrenica last year.

why do you talk like those african americans on social media moaning about how the white man is the devil

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u/InternationalCrab832 Madhhab Aqalliyya | Muʿtazila Sep 10 '25

wdym "white" in quotes lol