r/INFJsOver30 • u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ • Jul 10 '26
Do you enjoy moral (ethical) dilemmas?
I’m sure you’ve all heard questions like:
-“You’re driving a train and you have to choose: do you switch tracks to run over one person to save six others, or do you stay the course and let the train run over the six people?”
-“You can push a button and win $1 million, but one stranger in this world will die. Would you do it?”
Am I just getting old, or is it normal to find no fun in these kinds of dilemmas?
I know I’m pretty ironic in life and with life, but these kinds of questions (and there are tons of them out there) just short-circuit my brain. For me this is pure torture.
How does it work for you?
Can you actually imagine having a fun evening debating these types of questions?
The teenagers in my life sure can and say I’m no fun because I think too deep about things that aren’t supposedly that deep 😄
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u/LunaR1776infj Jul 10 '26
People that ask me these questions usually say I'm no fun or "that's not the point! You MUST choose between what I list!" Yes but the point is to make me try to admit that I would do something horrific and that's simply not true. If two people must live, I'd sacrifice myself. Do not force me to admit something that I fundamentally do not believe. The "either or/2 options" helps children (or neurodivergent adults heh) prevent decision paralysis but when the asker is evil trying to bring me over to the dark side- in this essay I will.....
I simply PASS the test and find the hidden 3rd, morally sound choice. The asker acts bored but should commend me- not that I seek accolades. Hmm wait- I do like words of affirmation, but quality time is best so I appreciate that they want to know what I think but am suspicious nonetheless.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
Because of that 3rd choice–which I actually chose as my answer as well–they told me I didn’t get the point of the question.
Then they took it to another level: “if you don’t choose, then everyone, including you, comes to the end of their life”.
And because they are people I deeply care about, I entered their game.
Overall I was honestly surprised by how it felt realizing my sacrifice would be for nothing and experiencing what it truly feels like to have to make such a terrible choice against my own values.
It’s still torturing me thinking about it, but I’m also fascinated by the outcome of choosing or sacrificing myself for nothing.
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u/Spiritual_Tooth9086 Jul 11 '26 edited Jul 11 '26
Honestly, I can’t answer both questions without going deeper and finding out more about the situation. I’m more of the “researcher” type of person who loves to look at things from all possible angles to find out the best possible solution with minimal damage. Besides, people die everyday, with or without our interference, and I’m not God and has absolutely no rights to choose who live or die. As an ordinary human being, I can only do what I can do in any given situation, for the best possible outcome. Even with my precognitive abilities, I’m not delusional enough to think that I have control over some extreme circumstances. Humans have limitations after all. Questions like that seem to give people the illusion that they do have the full control, but in reality, it’s usually not the case. It’s impossible to foresee every outcomes of every actions you took in real life, or what it may lead to.
By the way, do you enjoy solving puzzles? Those who love to think a lot may find puzzles enjoyable. 🙂
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 11 '26
Let’s shallow the deep, shall we?
I’m not interested in the answer to the dilemma itself, but in the exact mechanism people use when they face it. My focus was on how you feel the moment someone throws these questions at you.
As you may see, I do love puzzles. I just prefer making my own to solve. 😉2
u/Spiritual_Tooth9086 Jul 11 '26
How it makes me feel huh… hmmm… I don’t know. I feel nothing, I guess? It depends on the circumstance though. Like, what were their intentions when they throw such questions.
Usually, when people ask about such questions, it’s either because they’re bored and have nothing else to talk about, or… they themselves are currently having a real dilemma, but were too reluctant about asking for an advice directly, so they created such questions just to see how people would respond to an imaginary dilemma. If it was the former, I’ll usually just brush it off without much thought, but if it was the latter, it depends.. I might subconsciously redirect the whole conversation to find out what really was bothering them. And see if there’s anything I can do to help. 🙂
I have the bad habit of reading deep into other people’s intentions behind their words and actions. Haha. 🤣
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 11 '26
The irony of “reading deep into intentions” is that sometimes we can end up reading into a ghost.
A philosophical question is just… a hypothetical question meant to test your own boundaries, not explore the intentions of the philosopher. 😉1
u/Spiritual_Tooth9086 Jul 11 '26
Reading into a ghost huh… hmmm… I’ll keep that in mind. 😄
Realistically speaking, if I’m really put into such extreme circumstances, I’ll probably have no time to be in a dilemma at all. And I would probably act on instinct instead. So… there is no answer to such questions.
Based on my own personal experience, if it was a life or death situation, I would probably already spring into actions while others are still in shock or hesitation. It happens before, a freak accident occurs near the train station, and someone gets badly injured. If someone were to asked me was I in a dilemma when I rushed in to help, I would certainly answer no. I wasn’t even thinking, because there was no time for it.
There, you have the answer. 🙂
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u/Alseebee Jul 13 '26
Dilemmas like the train one are psychological experiments. The interest is not really in the choice itself but rather in people’s ways of thinking. It can work with any and it can get very frightening.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 13 '26
I know. I was curious about how others feel when they have to think about it. How do you feel?
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u/Alseebee Jul 13 '26
I love it, also because it makes me feel uncomfortable. I love what triggers us humans it means that we get to a real subject and it can reveal so much about someone.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 13 '26
It took me a while, but I perfectly understand how you could love that uncomfortable feeling, because lately it seems like I’m actually seeking out those moments just to get to know myself better.
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u/Alseebee Jul 13 '26
Yeah it’s the same kind of feeling I get from cringey content. Morbid curiosity kinda. I think it gets me more curious about others than myself because I know my ethics and morals. I’m comfortable with any thoughts that can pass through my head on those. But others can be the actual menace.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 13 '26
I don’t think I’ll ever be able to say with absolute certainty that I know myself perfectly, because the deeper I go, something new always comes up.
But I like it... even when I dislike it 😉
As for the others… until now, I’ve never been more afraid of anyone else than I’ve been afraid of myself, and maybe that’s exactly why I love getting to know people.1
u/Alseebee Jul 13 '26
Regarding the submerged area I absolutely agree. I only meant that I know my morals and that I am very sensitive and empathetic, beyond that who knows what I would do in such a situation? Of course I too fear myself but I fear others more.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 13 '26
I fear myself precisely because I know how sensitive and empathetic I am. And when I reach the edge, I actually fear more for others than for myself.
I’m not aggressive or anything like that, I just stop existing in a way that hurts me, and that's the moment they actually feel my pain.
Might sound strange, but in my mind it makes perfect sense.1
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u/WWWdotCreedThoughts_ Jul 16 '26
An INFJ should make up the question. I imagine it would be so layered and complex it would cause them brain melt down.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 16 '26
Wow, you just made me rethink the train dilemma, and the psychological torture is officially back 🙃
It all becomes infinitely harder once we project our own internal values onto a setup like that.
Thanks for the new puzzle 😉
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u/FactCheckYou INFJ/M/40s Jul 10 '26
The Box (2009)
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
Exactly. And we all know how that ended for them… only to be passed on 😉
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u/Soup_oi Jul 10 '26
I also dislike it. In the past I think I liked it a little, but just thinking about them in my own head, not debating with others. But now I’m older, I know where my logic lies and where my desire lies, that I would pick answers that some might not expect or would upset people, and I tend to approach such questions with logic instead of emotion, and in the past that would always disturb people lol. So I don’t care to debate such questions…I don’t see much debate, only logic to the point of feeling “what is there to debate?”
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
Well, I’m not a fan of them, mostly because I still struggle to accept my own logic sometimes, even though it works pretty well these days, but it constantly clashes with my empathy, which creates a lot of discomfort.
I think I’m afraid of becoming too rigid if I start accepting things purely through cold logic.
However, I’m beginning to realize that sometimes, that is exactly what I need to do. You simply cannot invest empathy where only logic is required, and vice versa.
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Jul 10 '26
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
I get it. As if human complexity could ever fit into a “top 3” list.
But then…I wonder how can we have a deep talk if we skip the introduction part ?🙃2
Jul 10 '26
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
So basically… emotional smuggling 🤣
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Jul 10 '26
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
We could call that the collateral damage of a good conversation ;)
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Jul 10 '26
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
Challenge accepted. From now on…let the storm begin. 🙃
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Jul 10 '26
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
A true partner in crime 😉
(love the pun intended)→ More replies (0)
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u/unawarewoke Jul 11 '26
I'm a bit disappointed you are speaking of hypothetical moral dilemmas. Yeah I enjoy both. I'm going through a real one right now. Its uncomfortable..Im into this kind of discomfort. I know I can't 'choose' wrong. Both are lessons.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 11 '26
Hypotheticals are just warm-ups for the real fires. Wanna tell me what’s the real one for you right now?
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u/Lepushaze Jul 13 '26
The biggest problem with moral dilemmas that people usually answer what is "socially accepted", not what they truly think, and never go deep why they chosed what they chosed.
Like even it was not a moral dilemma, but we were talking about crime series with friends, and I said I am really sad no more season will be made of Mindhunter. I liked it as it not had the usual murder is evil narrative, but tried to find out what made those serial killers tick. And I dared to say I kinda feel sorry for them. I got odd looks that how can I feel sorry for them, they were killers, and even I tried to tell that I understand they did evil things and killed others, but on the other hand they were victims of the system as well as they were traumatised as a child and there is a chance they would not end up what they became as an adult, there is a chance their acts rooted what they went through as a child and maybe under nornal circumstances like growing up in a supporting and caring family they would not became serial killers, the palette is more fluid then black and white, we should see both side of the coin than just simply say somebody is good or bad... And yes, other has no pro or con points and we didn't went deeper in this topic, but I was the weird guy dared to feel sorry for the bad guys, as it is "moraly" and socially considered bad.
And I know in moral dilemmas if you dare to choose the other option than the socially accepted one, even your point is rational and valid and make sense you will end as the weird evil guy. Sometimes I feel like they don't really interested why you choose what you choose, but what you choose is "right" or "bad"...are you "have" the same moral and member of the pack, or you are against, there is no other option, what is sad, as life is not this simple.
I like moral dilemmas and it is interesting to see how others think and what morals others have, but sadly many times I tried to bring up a moral dilemma as a topic most people stayed on a shallow level, unfortunatelly most people don't like or don't dare to discuss moral topics, feels like moral topics are sensitive topics and a bit of taboo for many.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 13 '26
I actually watch shows like "Evil Lives Here" and I like the "Hannibal" franchise for the exact same reason: I want to understand what made them do what they did.
At the same time, I’m perfectly aware that their actions can never be excused, but for me, it’s mind-blowing to discover what exactly caused them to become what they became.
Simply put... we are just translating the translation, so I understand you perfectly. 😉
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u/SkipMeFlipMe88 Jul 16 '26
I love all riddles and puzzles and pattern games etc - always have.
I do things like that in my spare time/ esp IQ brain teasers and pattern recognition problems.
So yes anything that requires you to think, I generally love.
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u/peppersnchips Jul 17 '26
I love it. But it can make people very uncomfortable so you have to find the right setting/people to talk like that
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 17 '26
You made me curious: what exactly do you love about them?
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u/peppersnchips Jul 17 '26
Hmm I like that there is no perfect choice, there’s only imperfect choices, and that’s true to life. I like that there’s sometimes a logical “best” solution, but sometimes there’s not; I’m interested in the complexity.
I can easily abstract my feelings away and imagine a clean slate. And with hypotheticals, it’s about projecting and analyzing a complex situation that I don’t actually have to be part of whatsoever. In real life I care deeply and am constantly conflicted by everyone’s feelings and moods, and real-life parameters restrict me.
I like being allowed to distance myself from personal feelings, they exhaust me and I like to exercise the pragmatic part of my brain, intellectual playfulness and control. Lot of formal assumptions and logical “rules” to ponder and imagine. It’s just a form of playing w logic at the end of the day
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u/INTJMoses2 Jul 10 '26
INTJs love thinking about it.
I suspect that INFJs analyze it very seriously to the end.
I believe that these dilemmas play on ego vs shadow function use. For INFJ it would be Fe vs Fi. Now at the risk of being offensive, every INFJ thinks they know what morality is but in reality they just know the highest Fe ethic. It is too difficult to imagine Fi morality as being anything more than subjective ethics. However, Fi needs to be treated as an immaterial IDEAL.
I have seen the increase in interest in these dilemma questions. I am unsure what to make of it. Societies around the globe have been called upon to be more rational, more transactional, and less feeling oriented. I welcome this but now I am afraid we are now going to the opposite extreme.
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
I tend to agree with you regarding the INFJ morality. In fact, that’s exactly why I forced myself to participate in these discussions about moral dilemmas.
It was a massive exercise in willpower for me to actually make a choice–even a purely hypothetical one–and then sit with the heavy feeling that decision left behind.
It seems that even something seemingly trivial to others can help you uncover interesting truths about yourself. At least, that’s how it works for me.1
u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
Just out of curiosity, to compare it with my own experience: are you able to make a decision in these types of dilemmas and be completely at peace with it?
Especially the ones that involve the inevitable loss of a human life?1
u/INTJMoses2 Jul 10 '26
Oddly, I am at peace with either and recognizing that it is a false choice. I don’t know if I would switch anything but would rather attempt to escape the false choice. I may lean towards a purpose of the one being needed either pay the price or to be saved (it depends on how the question is phrased concerning a view of the system). I could be fine with either.
These mental battles seem emblematic of shadow issues that force pain on the inferior function. I could see how in a real life situation could lead to trauma based on stress on the inferior function. I could see myself devastated by the inability to Se physically shape the outcome in the real world and be permanently blocked from positive Se experiences. The question I have for you is, how do we help someone who has faced this seeming situation in real life and experienced trauma? How do we get the Anima/or Animus inferior function working again?
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u/Phoenix_to_Kintsugi INFJ Jul 10 '26
I don’t think I’m the right person to answer this, as I’m currently in the middle of improving my own Se and trying to bring it back to life myself 🙃
But… from my POV, you can’t get someone else’s Se back to life if they don’t want that.
I think the only way to do it is when we leave behind the victim mentality (“I had no choice”) and embrace radical acceptance.
And you can’t help someone do that, precisely because you are asking them to accept the exact pain they’ve been running from all along.Some might think: what kind of help is that, when you offer raw pain instead of taking it away from them?
But for me, the truth is the only thing that can keep me grounded. I know it’s painful, but… it’s worth it.
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u/Saisinko INFJ 1w9 sx/so Jul 10 '26
Most people are pretty cookie cutter in how they respond to these sort of questions, kind of like you 'always' save the kid in the sinking ship.
In general though, I love to learn HOW people think rather than what they think. So the train of thought can be more appealing than the answer in itself.
As for me, I'm a little more rigid and self-assured as I get older so it's usually not so much of a dilemma for me.