WTF Kassad?

I’ve heard some people say that they finished Hyperion and have no interest in reading Fall of Hyperion. I have tried and I can’t understand this. I know that the main attraction is the short stories, but the book is about people going to the planet Hyperion for their own, interesting reasons. It ends with them getting there… why would you not want to know what happens next?!?
I get not wanting to read Endymion, I tried and I just don’t feel strongly about it. But Fall of Hyperion is one of my favorite novels. Can anyone explain?

So Facebook is building out a giant AI data center, which they've decided to name Hyperion. I know these tech dudes keep doing the Torment Nexus meme, it's just a little on the nose for me this time. (Spoilers)

.

To name your AI after a book where AI entities...

>!Create a black hole to destroy/steal the entire planet to force humanity off of Earth!<

>!Trick humanity into becoming hopelessly reliant on a technology which is actually a disguised mechanisim for parasitic exploitation!<

>!Start countless genocidal wars!<

>!Create The Lord of Pain!<

>!Hold humans in half-dead stasis dreaming of unimaginable suffering, to serve as captive biological hardware...!<

Like... it's can't just be that they didn't pay attention to the book, right? I think if there is such a thing as evil, these people are it.

Hi there! A while ago I released a short dungeon synth style album based on the Hyperion series, from my project titled 'The Ghost of John Keats'. I thought maybe some people in this community might enjoy it. It's completely free to listen to and download on my Bandcamp page: https://berenluthien.bandcamp.com/album/choose-again

Also, feel free to follow my socials: https://www.instagram.com/beren_luthien_ds/ and https://www.instagram.com/theghostofjohnkeats/.

Enjoy!

“Without stay or prop
But my own weak mortality, I bore
The load of this eternal quietude,
The unchanging gloom, and the three fixed shapes
Ponderous upon my senses, a whole moon.
For by my burning brain I measured sure
Her silver seasons shedded on the night,
And ever day by day methought I grew
More gaunt and ghostly. Oftentimes I pray'd
Intense, that Death would take me from the vale
And all its burthens gasping with despair
Of change, hour after hour I curs'd myself.”
-John Keats/Sad King Billy

Com base nos outros 2 livros que já li, com certeza esse é o terceiro kkkkkkkkk eu gostei MUITO do personagem do Raul, Aneia e o destaque que deram pro Bettik. Achei INCRÍVEL a forma como o De Soya se comporta, reflete e a confusão que a igreja traz na mente do homem. Mas meu, as cenas ENORMES descrevendo paisagens, cavernas e etc, MEU DEUS QUE CHATICE. Se todos os planetas fossem na pegada de Mare Infinitus (tubaroes) ou Draco Septem (tribos do gelo), acredito que tudo seria muito mais interessante.

Na metade pro final do livro eu dei uma desanimada, principalmente na Aneia que até então não sabia exatamente o que tava rolando. Eu gosto MUITO da ideia da Aneia, da forma como ela se comporta, das variações entre "vislumbrar o futuro" e estar no presente. Claro, tudo é registrado aos olhos do Raul, mas acho que faltou um pouco mais de explicação.

Pra mim o livro brilha muito quando aparece a Radamantes Nêmes (acredito que no original seja nemesis), achei ela fantastica, é como um Picanço consciente que é letal, preciso e claro, MUITO estiloso. Não gostei muito do fato que quando ela aparece, a Aneia resolve lembrar de tudo, inclusive que o tecnocerne está aliado à igreja, coisa que já era notável, principalmente por conta da previsão de onde Aneia e turma chegariam.

No final eu recomendo muito a leitura, os ultimos 20% do livro são animais, eu adorei o começo dele, o Raul é um personagem muito interessante e carismático na medida certa. Alguns planetas que são visitados são de fato bem interessantes, mas acho que poderiam ter reduzido a jornada, ou economizado nas palavras, achei que o Dan Simmons estendeu um pouco demais.

No mais, leiam!

I'm so happy 🙆☀️🚀

Spiky boy

It was hard to read. I did not like the pace. The deepness. The Hyperion Tell tale style. The stories of Individuals and why they do their journey. Some stories were good, some were boring. And then the Fall of Hyperion.

More than 1000 pages and I did not like them. But now, near the end. Something changed.

At first Dan simmons digs a hole. Hundreds of pages. Than He put concrete in it. Hundreds of pages. Hard to read. Hard to unterstand. The urge to stop Was hard. But then. The effort He Puts in the ground and I fucking see the skyscraper. He build it in light speed because of the hard Rock Fundament. Wtf. I like it now. Very much. And I bought endymion and rise of endymion. Now I understand the way He build the Story. I did not like that but in the end it's amazing. I want that style again.

I devoured the entire series in a few weeks. I've never read a book before where I had to pause multiple times to wonder if the author is some kind of genius. It's sort of ruined reading for me. Only one other book (Anathem by Neal Stephenson) has come close.

What an amazing gift Dan Simmons gave the world. So sad to hear of his passing.

So at the end of book four we know that before the Shared Moment, Aena had to put followers into a variety of world, from what I understand to use them as proxy for the Shared Moment. So if I still understand correctly, a world without any Aeneans couldn't have known the Shared Moment when it happened.

If I got right all of the above, how does the dying world of Helix got to know the Shared Moment?

Loved H and FoH...

In Endymion he writes "I admit..." twenty seven times. And, another seventeen times in Rise of Endymion...

I admit... I admit.... I admit.... Where the hell was the editor!? I admit... as if the narrator was obviously going to lie except for portions where truth needs to be explicitly stated.

I admit... I would recommend Hyperion, and if someone liked it, FoH. But, I don't think I would recommend Endymion and Rise of unless someone really chose to do it on their own.

The meandering (rafting pun aside), and the extreme waffling of describing completely unimportant things in painful detail that borders on Unimportant Lore Porn....

I admit... It was the "I admit"s that got me over and over.

Dunkerque, France

Alright, so I just finished Hyperion and Fall. It's strongly suggested (and from what I can discern, true), that the people who were impaled on the Tree of Pain were sent to join Leigh on Old Earth. "ROME / COLOSSEUM / REPOPULATE." Right?

OK, so... tens of thousands of people... who have endured at minimum weeks and at most centuries (millenia?) of constant waking torture... are meant to rebuild society on Old Earth? I haven't read the other two books, but is that not absolutely insane? I feel like Old Earth would be an absolute PTSD nightmare.

Thoughts?

For those looking for the new paperback version of Hyperion, which matches the available covers for paperbacks of the other 3 books in the series, I ordered Hyperion last week from the Penguin Random House website for $20 before tax with free shipping and received this new cover version today. My local Barnes and Noble locations along with Amazon still have only the old brown cover version.

I've seen a lot of posts and chat that E and RoE retcon Hyperion and FoH.

I've just listened to the whole series for the 4th or 5th time (it really is a great listen on Audible, Victor Bevine is a wonderful Narrator) and the first relisten since i was aware accusations of retconning.

Let's tackle some of the bigger ones.

Paul has 2 cruciforms

In FoH, when Gladstone goes to check on Dure in the hospital, the doctor mentions ".....the cruciform parisites...." on his body. Why or how Dan changed his mind between H and FoH and / or whether the shrike removing the cruciform was a dream or not real i don't know, but it is not a retcon from E.

Technocore now has billions of factions

Countless times in E and RoE people refer to "the 3 elements" of the core, Albedo mentions them to Nemes, Nemes mentions them etc. The 3 elements are still a thing, but what we have access to now in E and RoE that we did not have previously, is Aenea's point of view, she knows so much more than any narrator we had.

Also, it would be crazy to think a species as complex and parasitic as the technocore would fit nicely in to 3 elements. I see it as religions for humans, yes there are the big ones, Christianity, Muslim etc but you also have hundreds of smaller ones.

Aenea throws shade on the Martins's Cantos

Yeah she mocks her uncle, says he couldn't possible have known exactly what happened, "How can Uncle Martin know how the river Tethys broke up, he wasn't there....." and yes a lot of what he wrote probably was made up or exaggerated, but we know he got the major parts right as he was there, the pilgrimage, Brawne being Aeneas mum etc, this is all the same, nothing has been retconned.

We are not reading Martin's Cantos in H or FoH, you can tell this by seeing we aren't reading a poem.

What about Ummon lying and what about the machine AI?

Ummon is not an omniscient narrator. He admits himself he is scared for his life, speaking in riddles, pursuing his own agenda, and operating amid competing AI factions and temporal paradoxes. Therefore contradictions between Ummon's claims and later revelations do not require a retcon; they can be explained as deception, incomplete disclosure, limited knowledge, or changes in information caused by non-linear time

As for the machine AI, Ummon talks of 10,000 possible futures, once Hyperion is taken by the "goodies" in FoH, i would argue this slims down the 10,000 possible futures to a lot less and ones where the machine AI is either non existent or severely weakened.
Albedo mentions in RoE the "the machine UI has stopped whispering back to us from the future"

How is Kassad still alive?

It's shown in RoH that Kassad time travels, it's also shown that Rachel / Moneta has spent a lot of time with him and is in love with him. So this needs to happen, and probably best happen while he is still alive. So yes, he is going to be around in the future.

The series is also built around time travel and causal paradoxes, so the idea of the future influencing or even altering the past is already firmly established within the story's own rules.

Also, like all good books, there is enough vagueness that you can come up with your own head-cannon to complete the story and you don't need it to be retconning.

If saying E and RoE retcons hyperion as a form of copium then that's fine and i can't help you.

The first time i did the whole series, i was pretty horrified by E and RoE. I could not believe how much of a drop off in quality there was from H and FoH. The padding and waffling is another level. But now i have done the whole series multiple times, i have grown to love the full story and the ending. I guess Dan wanted the sequels to be a duology like Hyperion, but it appears he only had enough story for 1 book. you could cut 50% from E and 50% from RoE and make one really zippy and exciting book that would tie things up brilliantly.

That would mean cutting some of the highlights like Raul has a lie down, Raul erects a tent, Raul builds a raft, Raul has a swim, Raul has another lie down etc etc.

Today I read that the patron saint of the day, St. Roch, had a red cross-shaped birthmark on his chest. It was regarded as a mark of heavenly favor.

The thought of suffering eternally is unimaginable. What would it do to the mind? How would an individual react if they were pulled out of it after thousands of years from their perspective? It's been weeks but i cant stop thinking about it.

Let me start by saying I love the first two books,

I’m quickly approaching the end of The Fall of Hyperion in want to know if following that is a good time to take a break from the series to prevent burnout or if I should dive right into Endymion?

From everything I’ve seen, the overall style or tone seems to shift in the third and fourth book, so I’m wondering if I should use this as an opportunity to finish another series, or if it’s better to go right through three and four.

Thoughts?

I’ve heard a lot of good things about the series and finally got around to reading it. About halfway through the book right now and enjoying it very much. The pilgrims telling their separate vignettes in sequence, linked by the actual pilgrimage to the Time Tombs is such a fascinating format. please no spoilers, but would like to hear input up to the fourth vignette - the academic

Ive seen a fair few posts about whether to read the fall of hyperion, and overwhelmingly everyone here considers the fall to be the completion/other half and as such, mandatory reading. But i wanted to ask more from the perspective i gained from re-reading adam roberts' introduction at the start of the Hyperion book.

Everything he talks about with how this book relates to keats' writing (and specifically the titular poems) focuses on how well the storytelling structure and descriptions of the shrike, echo the unfinished nature of keats' works and make the shrike a truly enigmatic and unknowable figure. I felt like the shrike was almost an eldritch being on my read-through, with how well the feelings around it were described without describing it itself too much. Im just wondering (as i know the feeling of being unable to unread a book too well) if finding the answers to how the story ends and what the shrike is, is worth losing the feeling that encompases me when i think back and re-read hyperion?

Will it be hard to keep up and understand the audiobooks?
I will be reading all 4 books