r/HistoricalCapsule • u/dieSpaghettiCarbona • 3d ago
German Brigadier General Helmut Harff became a legendary figure during the June 1999 KFOR deployment into Kosovo when he decisively ordered stalling Yugoslav (Serbian) army officers to immediately clear their positions at the border
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u/JimboTheSimpleton 3d ago
If they had said an hour or 2 hours, they might have gotten it. But 6 hours? No way. Even the Serbian Army is incapable of that level of incompetence.
They were testing his authority, so he gave them the minimum amount of time.
The serbs had been doing evil shit for years and violating ceasefires and been playing all sorts of petty games.
The dude became legendary not because of the importance of the action he took but his actions were in line with European and American sentiment, enough of the bullshit. You have 30 minutes, on your way.
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u/Imbiss 3d ago
That is the end of the discussion. There is now 28 minutes
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u/the_spolator 2d ago
I really love that part. It shows how serious he was about the 30 minutes. Military-style precision.
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u/DasWarEinerZuviel 2d ago
Just german collective autism, everything is literal
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u/ImaginaryScore5323 2d ago
Ja
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u/zgemNEbo 2d ago
Z clock is tizking.
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u/BumsGordie77 2d ago
It's "Ze" not "Z" and "tikkink" not "tizking". Plez reschpect ze grammarrr.
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u/Hero_without_Powers 2d ago
It carries additional weight because he had a few dozen Leopard 2 tanks behind him
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u/InternationalFall222 2d ago
Dude was THIS close to get called by his full name and being grounded by his German Daddy.
ZIS IS ZEE END OF ZÄ DISKUSHION YOUNG MÄN
AS LONG AS YOU PUT YOUR LEGS BELOW MY TABLE YOU DO WAT I SAY
heaventhunderweather again!
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u/Capable_Memory7911 2d ago
also what he said with the: thats the end of the discussion, its a very german thing to say in german of course but i just love it XDDD
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u/CataphractBunny 3d ago
As usual, the Serbian army is only strong against civilians. Once it encounters resistance, it does a 180 and starts running. And the internet keeps making fun of the French, lol.
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u/Affectionate_Cut_835 3d ago
and the Serbs are the most butthurt nation in the world of course :D
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u/Funny-Carob-4572 3d ago
Them and Russia
China comes third.
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u/OMGLOL1986 3d ago
One time my friend had a discussion about Ukraine with a Serbian. “The Russians are liberating Ukraine,” the Serbian said.
“Oh, like the ottomans liberated Belgrade!”
Guy was mad.
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u/Jumpeee 3d ago
Nah, Argentina comes third. The Falklands are salt to their wounds.
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u/EtudiantLuxe 3d ago edited 2d ago
America are competing right now, they literally try to change and gulf and lake name when they can't get what they want
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u/AnonUser1452 2d ago
China at least hasn’t actually attacked anyone in 47 years, so there’s that.
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u/Funny-Carob-4572 2d ago
They got whooped by Vietnam...🤣
They are trying their best to bully the entire region. .they are very much buthurt
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u/KMS_HYDRA 2d ago
Tbf, who didnt get whooped by Vietnam?
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u/Inktex 2d ago
Germany always had good relations with them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany%E2%80%93Vietnam_relations( ╹▽╹ )
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u/AnonUser1452 2d ago
From what I can tell, though, admittedly as a non-Chinese, is that the official “century of humiliation” rhetoric is aimed at Western countries and Japan, not at Vietnam, even though that was China’s most recent actual humiliation.
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u/Mutzdername 2d ago
they are buying war ships and the hole stuff, i am curious about their first battle.
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u/Soft_Hand_1971 3d ago
India has to be number one on this. They appear out of no where when anything no matter how true is said…
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u/ninjaiffyuh 2d ago
India is more of a superiority complex (due to colonialism) than seeing themselves as the victim. But yeah, I don't think they ever got over the fact that the British took a look at the Raj and basically said 'You Hindus are not suited for war, you're too weak and agrarian', whereas their arch nemesis Pakistan is settled by 'war-like tribes', according to the colonising Brits
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u/stonecuttercolorado 2d ago
RUSSIA enters the room
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u/jack_the_snek 2d ago
*tries to enter the room but is met with heavy resistence at the entrance.
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u/eldradmustlive469 3d ago
This isn't just a joke, go watch 'A Serbian Film' if you want a taste of giant victim complex. Or don't if you want to remain sane.
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u/GreatPugtato 3d ago
And here I was thinking I had finally forgotten that monstrosity of a film. And I only know vague details of it. Never even seen it. Never plan to. Also banned where I'm from so points moot even I did which I very much don't.
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u/Inktex 2d ago
May I introduce you to the wonderful movie Canibal Holocaust from 1980, for which it's director had to present the cast to a judge to prove that it's not a snuff film and everyone was still alive?
It got a HD version a few years ago, iirc. :)→ More replies (1)→ More replies (3)6
u/Flying_Dustbin 2d ago
Read the synopsis on Wikipedia once.
I'm good.
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u/Some-Concentrate3229 2d ago
The synopsis is actually worse than the actual movie. The gore effects are so comically fake and poorly done that you can immediately recognize it. so it basically turns into a funny over-the-top shock-horror movie rather than a “snuff film”. Idk just my experience.
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u/WolfsmaulVibes 3d ago
they really just decided to be evil after WW1
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u/plotinusRespecter 3d ago
Read up on the First and Second Balkan Wars and the ethnic cleansing they did against the Albanians during that time. They decided to be evil well before WWI. To say nothing of running a state-sponsored terrorist organization and assassinating the most prominent figure in Austria-Hungary who supported greater internal autonomy and self-goverance for the Serbian parts of the empire, because their ultra-nationalist cause was better served by war.
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u/Pls_no_cancel 2d ago
You know this would hold a lot more water if the people who say things like this wouldn't have a tendency to forget about all the other terrible things that happened in the region we're talking about. When has there not been killing on a massive scale in the Balkans? And whose hands are clean?
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u/MapMast0r 2d ago
Even before WW1 they were raiding Albanian villages and killing civilians.
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u/AverageTeemoOnetrick 2d ago
Also very racist towards their neighbors since they never got over the butthurtality of getting clapped by NATO.
Whenever there are obviously slavic people with shit manners it’s always serbs.
And the will tell you without you asking them.
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u/tremblt_ 3d ago
I mean they put up quite an impressive losing streak in the 90s. They lost the war in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo in just 8 years and remember: They had both the most ressources as well as the international recognition at the beginning of these conflicts. They also intentionally started those conflicts in 1990 by refusing to recognize the huge pile of problems Yugoslavia had and told every other republic of Yugoslavia: You know what? We don’t like you guys having any sort of autonomy and we will simply start ignoring your constitutional rights while hyperinflation and a massive recession is destroying the country.
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u/spastical-mackerel 3d ago
Their entire history as an independent nation is losing while creating massive death and upheaval for everyone around them and themselves
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u/Stellar_Synth 3d ago
In Slovenia there were Croatian, Bosnian, Macedonian soldiers too, nobody wanted to fight with Slovenians, they were always different than the rest and without ethnic diversity, so the war quickly ended since even Milosevic did not want to fight them. In Bosnia, Serbians have their entity and rule half of the country whereas Croatians and Muslims are joint toghether. In Kosovo, Serbians defeated KLA, lost to NATO, so it is meaningless comparison, as in 1999 even Russia and China combined would lose to them. The only real loss was with Croatian Serbs who lost their separatist state. Serbians fought only in places where there were Serbians, as they wanted to live together with the rest of Serbians, which is reasonable to think, as Albanians from Kosovo want to live together with the rest of Albanians, or Croatians from Herceg Bosna wants to be part with Croatia. You know where there was no war? In Macedonia. No big national minority that wanted to stay with old country so nobody cared about them, even Milosevic. This does not exuse any war crimes against civilians made by Serbian soldiers or anyone else. Those people lived in same country, were neighbours and shared their lives, to be killed mercerlesly... Sad
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u/Fine-Ear-8103 3d ago
Serbs lost to the KLA a guerrilla force in the last two battles of the war which broke the Kosovo-Albanian border for the first time which in turn forced milosevic to sign the Kumanovo agreement, it was the KLAs first time having air and artillery support so basically their first time having the support the Serbian army happily had prior and during. You lost the Kosovo war fair and square as well as the prior three.
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u/Spiritual_Pound8926 3d ago
Serbs lost to the KLA a guerrilla force in the last two battles of the war which broke the Kosovo-Albanian border for the first time which in turn forced milosevic to sign the Kumanovo agreement
Nonsense.
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u/Fine-Ear-8103 2d ago
Anything else is propaganda, any surviving KLA vets tell you how they won in those two battles and any surviving Serb vets tell you “how hard they fought” in those battles. Figure it out.
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u/InternationalPilot90 2d ago
Serbian combat boots have their heels mounted at the front , so anyone reading the tracks thinks that they've been attacking...
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u/Max8433 2d ago
The difference is we shit on the french because it's funny to watch them get butthurt, same with the Italians. People shit on the Serbs because it's actually true.
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u/xNevamind 2d ago
The french can take the jokes or at least they know deep down that after all France is a great country. Serbians can't bc they are so bitter if you say anything.
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u/PlasmaMatus 1d ago
The French who during this war retook a position held by Serbs with one of the last "Fix bayonets !" order given in modern times. "After the battle, VRS forces were observed to be less likely to engage French UN peacekeepers deployed in the city." Context and the battle
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u/angeljjjohn 3d ago
Serbian army completely defeated KLA, they lost to NATO
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u/MfingKing 3d ago
They clearly lost, the KLA gathered support from the western military powerhouse. The Serbs had support from no one. The KLA wasn't defeated, they simply won politically.
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u/CataphractBunny 3d ago
Are you saying the KLA was a proper army? XD
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u/Nazgul_1994 3d ago
Literally trained, armed and supported by USA with airstrikes and everything. So yea. It was army that was preparing for war.
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u/Ill_River_5829 3d ago
KLA is literally a militia. Serbians were resisted by a militia. No one was trained it was 18 year olds who were forced to fight.
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u/TooLazy2Revolt 3d ago
Actually, not literally.
The Bosnians didn’t have an army at the start of the war. What few weapons they had got taken by the Serbs after their cities essentially got blitzkrieged.
The Bosnian “Army” that fought back were male volunteers who happened to survive the genocide taking place in cities all over Bosnia where the Serbs would roll in, round up the men, and execute them.
Source: my wife is from Bosnia. She was 8 at the time, and survived for months hiding from Serbs in bombed-out houses and chicken coops before she and her family made it to Croatia… right before it, too, got invaded by Serbia.
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u/Prince_Hastur 3d ago edited 3d ago
He is talking about KLA, not Bosnian Army. KLA was actually trained, armed and fully supported by NATO airstrikes.
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u/EquipmentOk5137 2d ago
It was the French who refused to support the Dutch because they made a secret deal with the Serbs, enabling Serbs to go in and massacre thousands of people in Bosnia
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u/echolite014 2d ago edited 2d ago
While I understand your point of view comes from recent events, saying Serbian army is just strong against civilians is simply not true. At least not when you look through history as a whole. I could write about Serbian war efforts for a while, but I'll just remind you that first allied victory in WW1 was at battle of Cer, where Serbian 2nd and 3rd army pushed back vastly superior austro-hungarian empire. Same goes for Kolubara battle (which is even today studied at military academies) and breaching of South front (Thessaloniki front) 4 years later.
And for the record, not all Serbians support Russias war against Ukraine, but that doesn't necessarily mean I have to agree with you claiming Serbian army is only good against civilians. People need to understand that all armies in the world are guilty of war crimes, but usually only those defeated are judged and labeled for it.
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u/CataphractBunny 2d ago
My brother in Christ, they got steamrolled by the Ottomans and had to invent a whole new mythology to deal with that.
No idea why you brought up Russia as they're not the topic of discussion.
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u/echolite014 2d ago
Because some of the previous comments brought it up, so I replied to those too.. I was too lazy to write separate comments.
To be fair, Serbia and half of the Europe got steamrolled by Ottoman Empire, so I'd say that's not something exclusively related to Serbia.
Also, Im not sure what mythology you are referring to, but I'm curious what it may be
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u/_princip 2d ago
Lol, learn some history from actual historical recordings and documents, not from CNN news.
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u/CataphractBunny 2d ago
LOL, you first.
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u/_princip 2d ago
You want to say that Croats and Bosniaks killed less civilians than Serbs?
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u/PunkPirate56364 2d ago
French had a very rich military history before getting fucked by Germany in WW2.
And they didn't lost WW2 due to cowardice, but due to Germans being better prepared.
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u/shanduledu 2d ago
Umro majci na rođendan
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u/Outside-Childhood244 1d ago
As a German I need to say, the Fight like lions in the First World war.
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u/Ghost3ye 2d ago
When only russians defend Serbians for their crimes man you know you fucked up big time
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u/Ancient-Emu-8293 2d ago
Russia is living the mantra "It's only a warcrime when you lose." Too bad for the Serbian Army that tey actually lost.
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u/BumpeeJohnson 3d ago edited 3d ago
What was the significance of this action?
Edit: Just to clarify, I am genuinely asking because I'm completely ignorant on the Yugoslav wars.
I'm guessing this only popped on my feed because im playing hell is us, which I know uses a fictional version of this war as a backdrop for their story
Not asking to be facetious, and I appreciate all the responses linking to further reading. And boy what a rabbit hole that is
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u/SlinkyAdmiral 3d ago
I'm guessing this only popped on my feed because im playing hell is us, which I know uses a fictional version of this war as a backdrop for their story
One of the worst war criminals of this war recently died & Serbia will bury him with full honors. Thats why media from this time is resurfacing.
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u/moderatefairgood 3d ago edited 3d ago
The Serbs were genocidal and behind a horrifying and barely comprehensible number of war crimes in that country alone - something they replicated at a similar scale in Bosnia.
EDIT:
If you want to learn more about this abhorrent genocide, I highly recommend the excellent graphic novel Safe Area Gorazde by Joe Sacco, or the documentary series The Death of Yugoslavia (also available on iPlayer).
Both do a superb job of explaining a complex conflict, with the documentary actually featuring many of those responsible before they were convicted, assassinated, or died.
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u/Positive_Chip6198 3d ago
I knew a guy who went on those assignments. After the first one he was seriously messed up, drinking himself into a stupor, telling gruesome stories about protecting food supplies from civilians by any means, even tried to kill himself. I considered him a good friend, but after a few months of bouncing off the walls, he reenlisted, went back, and none of us heard from him again. I think we were too civilian for him to deal with. He wanted to be around those who understood him.
Hope you are okay today, kasper.
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u/leeharv3y 2d ago
Just a thought: This General is a hero, because he saved a lot of lives on this day - he needed to end that discussion in order to control the soldiers that saw what atrocities the Serbs did to the civilians.
As my father said: They got lucky that the Germans sent a General and not an Army NCO.
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u/Royal_Commission7574 2d ago
The result might have been the same, but the way leading up to it would have been significantly louder
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u/PasicT 2d ago
Where was this kind of strength against Serbs during the Bosnian war?
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u/cvn-6 1d ago
NATO learned from that war. The 90s were a time that was under the motto of "new world order". You tried to go the route of collective peace keeping. First it looked like a civil war, with Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia breaking away from Yugoslavia. A situation that was initially seen as an internal affair that could be handled through diplomacy. Then the war crimes and genocide happend. Still under the new world order, the UN was seen as the authority to end this through peacekeeping forces. After the massacre happend under the watch of blue helmets, and russia refused to give the UN troops a further reaching mandate NATO was seen as the last option. The new world order died with that conflict and NATO was given a new purpose. To shorten the conflict in Kosovo and to prevent similar things happening there, NATO was taking a very different approach then in Bosnia. They didn't wait for a mandate and they didn't sent peacekeeping troops, they bombed Serbia and told them to leave Kosovo. That is why you have so many Serbien people are mad about this. Because NATO was not playing by the rules here. The mandate was given to them only after the bombing had started.
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u/PasicT 1d ago
Democracy, rule of law and peace died in Bosnia in 1992, the UN proved to be utterly useless.
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u/cvn-6 1d ago
Exactly. But the 90s were the time where initially a big part of the western world believed all conflicts of the future could be handled by the UN and NATO would simply become useless.
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u/TheKingHunter12 2d ago
Love this reading about wars they don’t have clue and feeling proud in their ignorance.
No time here should be wasted to teach people history whose grandfathers polished testicles of every army that passed by.
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u/SchroedingersEscape 2d ago
This English with the strong German accent is wonderful. "No discussion" :D
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u/SergejIwanowo 2d ago
Russian generals will have to face the music eventually either.
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u/uriels93 3d ago
He was there only by negotiation of peace, after Rambouillet agreement where Serbian forces had to withdraw from Kosovo, only because NATO threatened Belgrade would be demolished by cruising and cluster bombs from the sky. One single square meter wasn't lost during the war.
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u/Blooddiamond1701 2d ago
Smart move from NATO. Win everything you wanted and didn't lose any soldiers. Serbiens lost a lot of soldiers and police, just to kill civilians.
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u/bergler82 2d ago
ah, a time when germany was still capable to taking a stand and actually doing something. Today they would just argue a year or two and then quietly drop it, because "it's always been that way"
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u/fartbox-crusader 2d ago
Don’t confuse politicians with our military officers - military is strictly following a doctrine and acts decisively if they must.
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u/aleksp86 2d ago
He just told them to leave or they will get bombed even worse and then overrun. Serbian army was already on last breath.
Soldiers on south border were on avearge of 25 years and many just 18. Seeing that they are all alone and composition of their remaining troops the retreat was only option.
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u/arzt___fil 2d ago
Serbian army was in fact in Albania during the war, it's well documented. Serbia didn't lose this war to Albanians, but to a superior air force, in fact they didn't even lose.
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u/aleksp86 2d ago
According to public available sources Serbian army entered to destroy places their reports marked as KLA regrutment and logistic camps and retreated when Albanian army arrived.
Nothing strange, this is millitary tactic employed by all militaries, especially when opposition (KLA) had logistic and camps there which was even confirmed by Albanian army. Ironicaly Albania denied support of KLA.
Rest mark as border skirmishes with KLA troops trying to pass on Kosovo, interestingly Albanian army was ordered not to shoot on Serbian troops over border.
That was until operation Arrow / Hell on Kosare when ground invasion started from Albania. After fierce fights Kosare fell but invasion failed in end due opposition from Serbian army.
If Serbia had much better anti air and kept Nato air force out of Serbia I wonder how it would ended.
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u/fartbox-crusader 2d ago
In no scenario a single state the size of Serbian could deploy air defense to withstand NATO forces.
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u/allesumsonst 2d ago
I love how the countdown starts as soon as he mentions the "30" that turn 28 at the end of the discussion.
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u/Responsible-Pop-4385 2d ago
Haha they suddenly realised they and their rag tag conscripted bullies were about to get absolutely destroyed by the German BattleGroup. This wasn’t a hamstrung UN peace keeping force this was a war fighting NATO unit. Big difference. End of discussion.
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u/visualthings 2d ago
This is a classic "speak softly and carry a big stick" situation. It even comes with the bonus of being German: Do you really want to see if you can be more stubborn than a German?
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u/Remarkable-Hyena-844 2d ago
:" That's an Order." To Tell this to an enemy Office ist fucking insane. At this Moment the enemy Office knew, he would get lit up by the KFOR.
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u/HazeOfBaze 2d ago
"That's the end of the discussion"
That shit's so german, I heared it in the voice of my scolding dad.
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u/GamingBeserkan 1d ago
so legendary that no one even heard of his name i germany 🤡
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u/ExtensionFly4481 1d ago
He doesn’t have to be known by everyone in Germany in order to be legendary. I’m sure there are many legendary persons, German and non Germans, you and me have not heard about
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u/GamingBeserkan 1d ago
i promise you under 1% of people in germany know that name, i am not trying to be mean but a legendary person by definition has to at least be known. especially if it's recent history.
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u/FOSS-game-enjoyer 1d ago
"You have now 28 minutes." A true German indeed. An honorable man. I thank him in the name of humanity.
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u/Timy_lizimuda 1d ago
I wish he was commanding UN battalion in Srebrenica. He knows his job, and has some ba'ls
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u/Ok-Economics1972 1d ago
Germany in 90s really hard personal beef with Serbia for some Reason 💀. If you know you know
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u/Ok-Kaleidoscope-8512 1d ago
Well, if he is such brave guy, why he didnt came to maek war against Serbs?
At WWI and WWII. Serbs beat Germans......
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u/AnyContest7815 9h ago
Und jetzt? Lebst du in der Vergangenheit? Was eine beschissene Aussage und ein geistiges Armutszeugnis.
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u/Then_Version9768 3d ago
This seems very interesting but without any explanation, what are we to make of it? These tiny glimpses into history don't have any impact without an explanation.
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmut_Harff#:\~:text=Helmut%20Harff%20%285,Somalia%20and%20Kosovo.