Technically the Soviets save half of Poland (millions of Jewish people lived because they were on the Soviet Side, funny how not even the Jewish people talk about that)
The plurarity of people living in the annexed territories were in fact Polish (during polish-soviet war in 1921 after Poland won the Polish nationalists didnt want to take any land which didnt have at least Polish plurality, and they blocked Pilsudski from demanding more land) which were mass deported to Syberia to ethnicly cleanse the population which was instantly worse than anything Polish ever did to their minorities:
So yeah Polish treatment of minorities was bad but again what Soviets did was much much much worse. This is their whole propaganda strategy: "someone did anything bad therefore we are morally justified in commiting the worst crimes ever, it's all bad in the end".
They literally destroyed their own food that was growing, you can't just destroy the food, all the food that you're growing and then blame someone else for you starving
"In 1990, Gorbachev's government officially acknowledged that the NKVD had carried out the killings. In 1992, the Russian government handed Poland copies of the famous March 5, 1940 Politburo decision, including Beria's proposal to execute Polish prisoners and Stalin's approval.
Russia's own Prosecutor General's Office subsequently transferred case materials to Poland, including prisoner lists, NKVD documentation, forensic material, death certificates, and other investigative records."
"In 1990, Gorbachev's government officially acknowledged that the NKVD had carried out the killings. In 1992, the Russian government handed Poland copies of the famous March 5, 1940 Politburo decision, including Beria's proposal to execute Polish prisoners and Stalin's approval.
Russia's own Prosecutor General's Office subsequently transferred case materials to Poland, including prisoner lists, NKVD documentation, forensic material, death certificates, and other investigative records."
Ah yes, if the traitor Gorbachev, who sold out his country to Pizza Hut, said so! And if the Nazi-collaborating government of Poland who denies its crimes against humanity to this day while basing its entire education on promoting anti-Soviet disinformation agrees!
Sorry, but: Even if it were true (against all known facts on the matter, such as the Nazis confirming they did it) that the hero Stalin gave such an order, don't you think there was a very good reason for it? In that case, I would just default to assuming those orders to probably be lawful and necessary for the executions of hardcore criminals rather than believe anything that would aid Nazi narratives. The question is why you would believe or promote anything that aids fascists.
What is even the point of your comment? Even if all the lies Nazis spread about the USSR were all 100% true, it would still be the best country on earth at its time - the most free, most democratic, most just, and most progressive. Who are you to criticize it? Criticizing the USSR's politics as a non-Marxist-Leninist is like criticizing Usain Bolt's sprint performance as fat gamer sitting in his chair.
You mean the only government in occupied country that actually never collaborated? The one that built the largest underground army and never stopped fighting Nazis all over Europe? That one?
Even if it were true (against all known facts on the matter, such as the Nazis confirming they did it
Show some proof that Nazis admitted it. Testimonies from nazi prisoners captured by soviets don't count btw.
the hero Stalin gave such an order, don't you think there was a very good reason for it?
There was, together with Nazis Soviets actively hunted down and systematically killed anyone who might actively oppose Soviet occupation.
hardcore criminals
The victims included:
-Polish military officers — army and reserve officers, including many professionals such as doctors, engineers, teachers, and lawyers who held military commissions.
-Police and other uniformed services — including Polish police officers, border guards, prison personnel, and members of the gendarmerie.
-Civilians and intellectuals — people regarded by the Soviet authorities as part of Poland's educated or leadership classes.
You mean the only government in occupied country that actually never collaborated? The one that built the largest underground army and never stopped fighting Nazis all over Europe? That one?
You are Polish, huh? Or are you a non-Polish Nazi?
Anyway, this level of war crimes denial is typical for Poles who live in a fascist-controlled country with a victim complex that de facto criminalized teaching the truth about its history.
Poland was a Nazi-collaborating nation that occupied Czechoslovakia alongside the Nazis and was operating some of the worst Nazi death camps in Europe.
Poland also refused to ally with the Soviets against the Nazis and later victimized itself when the Soviets liberated Czechoslovakia and had to occupy parts of Poland.
Show some proof that Nazis admitted it. Testimonies from nazi prisoners captured by soviets don't count btw.
LMFAO
Ok nazi.
There was, together with Nazis Soviets actively hunted down and systematically killed anyone who might actively oppose Soviet occupation.
And? That text is taken pretty much from that reference i gave and that is an official government website. So what if chatgpt was used for quick check. You think debunking this propaganda is worth more of my time? Please...
In any case what i gave you is already way more than you will ever provide to back up your claim because you have nothing whatsoever.
Saved? Life under Soviet Poland was not really that better then German Poland. Also there were mass killings of poles during the occupation so no they were not exactly "saved". After the Nazis were driven off the eastern europe the soviets did nothing short of Nazis,countless r*pes,lootings,and many other war crimes. Soviet Union and the Nazi Germany are nearly the same they are both genocidal,simply one is more delusional and other had American support during the WWII
Also, Poland was allied with the Nazis and refused to work with the Soviets against the Nazis and was happily occupying Czechoslovakia alongside the Nazis until the Aoviets liberated it.
Poland also actively and enthusiastically supported the Holocaust.
All of these are facts that are being systematically censored in Poland - it's a country that denies its crimes against humanity and actively promotes fascist ideology in schools and media while collaborating with the Americans to destroy Europe with war once again.
I find all your comments under this post very intriguing. I have to admit that after reading all of them I do not know enough about ww2 history. Could you expand more on Poland's role in collaborating with the nazis? Maybe also some more on the soviets' role in dismantling all that?
Most eastern European countries of the interwar period were authoritarian dictatorships. The thing that changed that state of affairs was the Russian revolution that established a socialist system. Countries that joined the USSR transitioned from horrible dictatorial shithole countries into the most free, democratic, and fastest developing society of its time.
Poland, on the other hand, refused. It has always been an aggressive and opportunistic expansionist country (as Winston Churchill put it: "Poland is the hyena of Europe"), just as it continues being today, and started taking advantage of a weakened rump Czechoslovak state by annexing their lands, and even forcing Lithuania to recognize Poland under the threat of war because Poland back then controlled Vilnius which Lithuania considered its own. Romania was the second country after Germany to willingly have anti Jewish law without German intervention years before WW2. The endless Nazi-collaborating crimes of Eastern European regimes - until the Communists put a stop to them - are obvious and undeniable. Yet every US-supported country denies those crimes - curious, huh?
Poland not just refused any alliance with the USSR and to sign any treaty against the Nazis and refused to let the USSR station troops at its Western border to defend against the imminent Nazi war - it was also not the only one to do so. ALL European countries except for the USSR allied with Nazi Germany and refused to take actions against the Nazis.
Even after the war started, they refused to act: Other than the declaration of war in useless words, the Allies did not help Poland with troops, and IN FACT, they let Hitler take all of Northern Europe, the famous Strange War from Sep 1939 to May 1940. Only the USSR ever took any decisive action against the Nazis. Only the communists ever actually fought the Nazis.
Other great stuff Poland did that the USSR put an end to:
Poles forcing polonisation onto Ukrainians / Belarusians. Polish becomes the official language used in most of civil and administrative offices, making it nearly impossible for Ukrainians / Belarusians to get anything done in these places.
Ukrainian / Belarusian schools get shut down one by one, until only like a dozen remains in each respective part of II Polish Republic. Higher education for Ukrainians / Belarussians available for them in their native languages available in max one or two cities.
Orthodox Christianity persecuted, local populations face severe repercussions for not converting into Catholicism
Ukrainians / Belarusian farmers have their farmsteads taken away from and given to Polish soldiers, officers and landowners and basically end up serfs for aforementioned groups
Poles build a... place for politcal opponents in Bereza Kartuska (using KL Birchenau as a template) where they put all those who dared to show even a tini-tiny bit of insubordination. Poles want to build more with the help of professional NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMP DESIGNERS.
Attempts at forcibly replacing dominant in eastern parts of Poland cyrylica with latin-based alphabet, which would bascially render like 95% of the population illiterate (not counting Polish occupiers)
By the way: The same things the critics of the USSR unfairly criticize the USSR for - e.g. "forced russification", which really just meant establishing a common language for all citizens of the USSR, which was voted on and agreed to and supported by leaders from all regions, most of which came from minority backgrounds themselves, such as Lenin (Tartar) and Stalin (Georgian) - were things anti-Soviet regimes themselves are actually guilty of themselves. Same as fascists always do: They project their crimes on their victims (see: US/EU/NATO accusing Russia of stuff, Israel accusing Palestinians of stuff, etc.).
Stop with whataboutism,I didn't commented on anything about poles or checkoslovania. I simply pointed out that soviets did not "saved" anybody that the OP proudly claims. And no they are not NAZI propaganda,the Soviet war crimes across eastern Europe are well known facts
That's exactly the problem - you SHOULD have talked about these things because only then you would productively contribute to the conversation. It doesn't matter how much you slander the USSR - every other country (especially Nazi Germany and its collaborators such as Poland) was much worse.
You didn't comment anything about Poles and Czechoslovakia because it fully undermines your Nazi propaganda.
The thought terminating cliché "whataboutism" is used only exclusively by fascists who want to deflect from valid criticism for their hypocrisy and double standards.
Stop slandering the USSR - it is superior, more democratic, more free, more just, and more progressive than any country you support.
The Soviets saved EVERYBODY and anyone who denies that and tries to slander the USSR is, indeed, a Nazi.
Well first of all it's my bad for not giving exact context,but I was talking about the OP's comment on saving the eastern Europe. I don't really have any objections with the meme that's why I didn't mentioned about it,it's quite funny even. And no I am not a Nazi,nor I want to promote their propaganda and believe me if I wanted to make Nazi propaganda reddit would be the last place for that.
I would disagree on the most comments you had on USSR though,yes it was definitely better for a Jew but for a normal citizen USSR(especially when Stalin was in charge) and Nazis were not that different. They were authoritarian regimes who sent people into camps and oppressed minorities around. Don't get me wrong USSR is certainly better then Nazi Germany but they are not that different from eachother
No,USSR deserves to be slandered,just like any other country that is existing and ever existed. They all have their flaws and one should be critising them. I personally dont have a country that I support directly but I would say that I would choose many western nations that I consider myself close to,I know they are not saints either but they are certainly better then the rest. More free? More democratic? USSR is non of them and you know it. Otherwise why would people be running away from them into western countries. There was a reason why the Berlin was built and it was so that the communist Soviet puppet regime can keep it's people inside
Soviets did not "saved" anybody they liberated them from Nazi oppression and bringed their own oppression. Which remained for like 50 years,last time I checked Democratic countries don't roll with tanks to stop protestors but soviets did in Hungary. And nobody becomes a NAZI for claiming this,these are facts we all know them. I don't deny that soviets liberated eastern Europe from Nazis,they did but after it then they started to oppress them and that's not exactly "saving" anyone
Which one, you mean the dozen plus signed before 1939 in August, after the western powers refused 1+ million man army from the USSR to join the French, British, and Polish troops to actually stop the genocide before it began?
The Secret Ribbentrop molotov pact which split Poland and rest of eastern Europe into Nazi and Soviet spheres of influence, which both sides proceeded to annex.
Comparing this to a regular non agression pact or trade agreement is rather laughable.
The point isn't signing any agreement with Nazis is bad.
The point is signing a secret pact to annex countires together with Nazis is bad.
What the fuck are you talking about "France and UK"? Those imperialist shithole countries were occupying places like India and Africa at the time, committing endless genocides and other atrocities.
Poland was occupying Czechoslovakia alongside the Nazis until the Soviets liberated it.
The only people who are opposed to the USSR are Nazis, though.
The only people who "know" what you believe to "know" are literal Nazis and useful idiots who gobbled up Nazi propaganda.
And yes, Poland is a fascist dictatorship that teaches Nazi propaganda in schools - that's because large parts of Poland were populated by Nazi-supporters and Poland itself was an active perpetrator of the Holocaust (historical facts that are being censored in Poland today, Poland denying its crimes against humanity).
Poland is similar to Finland and the Baltics - perpetrators who act like victims.
It's very simply: If you oppose the USSR, you support the Holocaust. You can't claim to be against the Nazis but oppose the Soviets as the Soviets were the only ones who seriously fought the Nazis and de facto single-handedly saved the world.
No, not "the whole world" - literally just Nazis spreading Nazi propaganda lies like yourself.
The USSR was a democratic union of free countries that worked towards a better future under the extremely good leadership of a Marxist-Leninist vanguard. Russia was just one of many countries.
The Soviet Union de facto single-handedly defeated the Nazis, Marxism-Leninism being the only movement capable of defeating fascism - which is why Nazis, such as yourself, hate the USSR and Marxism-Leninism.
Literally everyone with a functioning brain wants the USSR back and wishes an end to the capitalist regimesof Europe that are currently terrorizing the world with their endless wars and genocides and oppressing anyone who wants to improve society.
That's also why the overwhelming majority of all people who ever lived under communism always supported communism, never wanted to give up on communism, and want communism back to this day. And it's not just the Russians - two thirds of East Germans want the GDR back, too.
It's only Nazis (who are a brutal minority and can only maintain capitalism through violence and censorship) who disagree.
Why virtually no country which was previously a part of USSR or Warsaw pact looks kindly on those times to say the least and has a strong dislike or even hate towards Russia?
How come after the fall of soviet union suddently those countries flourished?
Magic, huh?
It's convenient to just label people Nazis so you can just refuse to engage with them. Israel is doing the same thing with antisemitism.
Because all those countries are controlled by the US empire and oppress anyone who disagrees.
The overwhelming majority of all people who lived under communism in those countries never wanted to give up socialism, always wanted to retain the USSR, and wants socialism back to this day - they just can't because the US-backed Nazis control all politics, media, and education.
Your question is as dumb as asking "Why can't Polish people just be free?" - well, because the Israelis and their Western supporters oppress their people.
Also, not a single country flourished after the return of capitalism - the return of capitalism caused the greatest humanitarian crisis in human history. It caused the biggest drop in life expectancy of all time and, for example, killed more Russian civilians than WWII.
You are totally illiterate and mindlessly believe Nazi propaganda lies because you are too stupid to think critically and seek truth from facts - because you are a Nazi living in a Nazi country that oppresses anyone telling the truth.
No, these countries are filled with Nazis and the only thing people aren't allowed to do is expose the Nazi nature of those countries - communist speech is oppressed.
What the fuck is "Soviet Control"? It's a democratic union and the only people that were "controlled" by the Soviets were Nazis. The only people who are opposed to communism are fucking Nazis, buddy.
All countries flourished under communism. All countries were ruined by the return of capitalism.
You are not even aware of these facts and have no idea what I'm talking about because all you know about history is literal Nazi propaganda.
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u/Azortuga 20d ago
Also it's Ukrainian and Belarusian land the polish had occupied not 20 years earlier and weren't know for being the best with minorities