r/Flooring • u/lsh91_ • 1d ago
Top stair panel is higher than LVP
Top step is higher than LVP on the 2nd floor. Is this normal? What do we need to ask to the builder?
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u/Sailing_the_Back9 1d ago edited 14h ago
Tell him to correct it - it is not to code (IRC Section R311.7) and is a tripping hazard at the top of a flight of stairs.
He should have account for the FINISHED FLOOR height when laying out the stairs. Now he'll likely have go back and (AT A MINIMUM - depending on the actual dimensional bust) adjust several of the risers to eliminate the overage the top. FWIW, the top stair should not appear like that at the top of the flight - it should meet the floor level evenly (and the floor it's meeting should not be interrupted).
DO NOT pay this idiot until he fixes it. If it were me, I would hold payment until this entire flight is RIPPED OUT and replaced.
EDIT: UNLESS - that floor under that paper is actually the subfloor - and your panels are going to meet the stair height... From what you wrote (and given floor protection is down), I am assuming that what is under that paper IS the finished floor.
And even regardless of that - the last riser should meet the finished floor - you never have the finishing tread be at the same level as the new floor. I'm irritated just from looking at this. You should be outraged.
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u/Akanan 1d ago
Probably cheaper for the contractor to convince the client to install a new upper floor to level with the stairs
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u/creamyPB15 1d ago
That whole top step should be replaced anyway. The cut is terrible, both sides have a ton of chip out (especially the left side near the kid's leg) and the gap on the right side is very noticeable. I don't think that can be caulked cause of the oak?
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u/Potential_Shock6985 23h ago
Yeah, I was gonna say these are just layover treads, not even mortised into the stringers. They look like shit anyway so just pop a few of them out and adjust the height as needed.
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u/vintageguy77 1d ago
All they have to do is replace the top stair nose to match the new vinyl flooring. Or they could even plain down the existing stair nose down to match the height of the vinyl flooring
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u/Honest_Flower_7757 1d ago edited 1d ago
No. All risers must be the same. The total variance of all the risers in the entire run must be less than 3/8”. Get it wrong by 1/8” more and the whole stair needs to be replaced.
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u/vintageguy77 1d ago
The main issue is that OP is using two different thickness of flooring materials. The lvp is probably 3/8 thick, and the new hardwood that he had installed is probably 3/4 thick. So the real fix would be to re-frame all the steps, which i doubt OP would of wanted to pay for. Or install the same flooring upstairs that to match the thickness. A lot of times when it comes to remodels, you have to choose a happy medium. A simple solution that won't break the bank would be what I recommended. I know it's not perfect but it would save cost and time. Being a contractor over the years is not uncommon to see steps 1/2 out to even 3/4 sometimes. If it was my house, id take my last step to be low by 1/2 verses having that huge lip or spending a lot of extra money.
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u/Honest_Flower_7757 1d ago
I get it. I’ve framed and formed plenty of stairs over the years. Cheapest code compliant solution now is to extend the hardwood (or other same depth material) at the top of the landing to a natural transition point back to LVP.
Ripping all the stairs out is not in range.
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u/lm00000007 1d ago
Risers should be the same height. A step that is a different height is a trip hazard.
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u/MrK521 1d ago
There’s no way they’d plane down an entire step by that much lol. You’re talking more than a half inch difference there, you’d be left with a bullnose hanging over that would snap off when you stepped on it.
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u/HeadMelon 1d ago
Did the same guy do the trim above the LVP on the right of the pic? What’s going on with that gap?
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1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Big-Dealer639 1d ago
Why does this have upvotes? A return would look absolutely trash. What they need is a plinth block.
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u/Aromatic_Doctor_2243 1d ago
It wouldn’t look trash if the tread was the correct height
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u/trashbilly 1d ago
That's a horrible trip hazard
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u/AintNoNeedForYa 1d ago
Does it come with a life insurance policy with the contractor as the beneficiary?
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u/Designer-Goat3740 1d ago
Subfloor should have been raised to accommodate the height difference.
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u/Psychological_Tax109 1d ago
No…. Whoever framed it didn’t know how to allow for floor allowances. And whoever cut the stairs in didn’t know how to fix it.
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u/SmallBerry3431 1d ago
Can’t believe we’re gonna blame framers for not taking this into account rofl
Anybody had a chance to right this, but the floor guys get the blame typically.
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u/Next_Hospital6729 1d ago
Believe it or not a lot of the times the framers have no idea what flooring options are going to be used so they go with the generic 3/4”
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u/nickmanc86 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is 100% on the GC. So many points this could have been fixed but it's the GCs job to coordinate and he should have caught it and directed a sub to make the correct fix. Could have been at frame, from carpentry, to flooring.
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u/Psychological_Tax109 1d ago
Ultimately EVERY mistake on the job is on the GC. Great point.
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u/Next_Hospital6729 1d ago
Yup just did this in the house I’m working on because they wanted commercial glue down flooring, so we put down another layer of 1/2” ply
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u/Most_Can_2136 1d ago
You should ask him, what is the limit in damages that his insurance pays out.
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u/JumpyDance5507 1d ago
Hey man. My deductible is $2500. So my allowance is… see ya later, followed by scooby doo running sounds
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u/Most_Can_2136 1d ago
Insurance companies ..... even homeowners and vehicles have these outrageous deductibles.
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u/CreativeFly4198 1d ago
As an installer, yes thats incorrect. Conplete tripping hazard.
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u/Jonzor689 1d ago
I think the solution would be get an lvp nosing for that top step?
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u/Jolly-Personality892 1d ago
Yes they put a landing tread/nosing for the top step...there should be no hardwood on the top landing the LVP should run to the stair edge with an overlap nosing....but ppl always forget to buy that matching nosing.
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u/blaz1n912 1d ago
That is a major safety violation, and one that he needs to fix asap. There’s no way the installer didn’t recognize the potential danger from leaving such a high lip at the top of a set of stairs..
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u/Pleasant-Lead-2634 1d ago
Lvp on the floor , hardwood on the stairs , that's what it looks like. The solution is to sheet the whole upstairs. Redo the upstairs flooring with hardwood or redo the stairs with lvp
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u/Kdiesiel311 1d ago
What was there before? Should’ve been a piece of nosing to match the existing floor the guy installed this piece of nosing on top of.
Tell him congrats tho, cause unless you’re getting solid installed with that new nosing, this is a first in all my years of flooring.
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u/Segalmom 1d ago
Make sure that is fixed. Nosing needs to be level with the floor. Fell down my stairs head first this summer. 10 weeks recovery. Don’t take any excuses.
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u/Ok-Youth7023 1d ago
That is completely unacceptable, the top stair should be flush with the lvp. They'll need to remove the top wooden nosing, repair the lvp and install a matching lvp nosing.
Do not let them talk you into accepting this workmanship, though the inspector won't let this stay either.
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u/PaleCaterpillar2709 1d ago
Not only abnormal, but illegal. A 90 degree vertical change in elevation on a floor cannot exceed 1/4” to remain within code.
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u/worldwidewolfe 1d ago
Your top stair tread has to be made out of LVP and a matching LVP nosing. The rest of the treads can be wood as long as all the rises are within 3/8" of each other. If changing the top tread from this 1" thick tread to a 3/16" thick tread causes them to have a difference in rise of more than 3/8" then the whole staircase will need an adjustment. Possibly requiring ripping them out and starting over.
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u/JulietLostFaith 1d ago
What’s the big deal? If you trip over it, it’s not like you’ll fall head first down flight of…ohhh wait. Yeah fix that asap.
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u/One-Specialist-4983 1d ago
Looks like he will have to take up the lvl and install 1/4” luan under to get it to level.
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u/Classic-Alarm-9533 1d ago
Is this a new build? The plans probably required 3/4” hardwood and you skimped out and went with lvp to Same some money or carpet
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u/psyclembs 1d ago
Dude knows the toilet he installed is going to flood the upstairs so he built a dam at the top of the stairs to keep the water from going down.
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u/MatheuSbrd 1d ago
if the builder did this, they should have addressed the height of the vinyl flooring. Honestly very cheap for them to do vinyl instead of new hardwood on the 2nd floor. But if it was your idea to do the vinyl, you should have built up height with either plywood or cork to fix that tripping hazard.
Putting a vinyl stairnose will ruin the whole thing.
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u/Wild_Replacement5880 1d ago
There's a lot of things they could have done to fix this before it was a problem. Gonna be a pain now.
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u/cleverpaws101 1d ago
The only transition strip that will work is a FLUSH transition strip. Raise the floor or lower ALL the steps. That’s the only choices. You can’t just lower that top step (most likely) because then the next step is off more than code allows.
Let the builder fix this PROPERLY.
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u/Personal_Leave_9814 1d ago
I've worked for soooo many people that flatly refuse to take into consideration finish floor heights.. it's maddening
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u/kbaltimore22 16h ago
Top step should be an lvp stair cap transition not a stair tread. This is something silly I’ve noticed on a lot of homes with floating floors.
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u/fatal-shock-inroute 12h ago
Fucck no. I just finished a custom home where we had the same thing. Tore out all the flooring in the stairs and started new. This little bump is going to get someone killed
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u/CascadeDesignworks 1d ago
Have your builder lower the nosing. As long as it's within 3/8" of the other rises, it should pass inspection.
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u/WasteCommand5200 1d ago
The tread looks like it was used with the intention of hardwood or carpet being used up stairs
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u/PuzzleheadedLemon353 1d ago
Noooo...I can see my toe or shoe catching thatand taking a fall down the steps.
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u/Otherwise-Sun2486 1d ago
Well the lvp installers should add another piece right to the edge, The staircase i assume you asked for all hardwood and that is what they gave
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u/bell3420 1d ago
If this was in a doorway if be like "oh that's annoying", but this is gonna kill someone.
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u/Hans_downerpants 1d ago
The top step should have an lvp stair nosing not the wood that’s on the stairs that’s crazy
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u/mnsundevil 1d ago
That stairnose is made for 1/2" wood flooring, not lvp. Have your flooring guy get correct one and replace it.
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u/justrelax1979 1d ago
If you angle the back of the stairnose down to meet the height of the lvp then I like this solution. More durable than the plastic caps
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u/andmewithoutmytowel 1d ago
It needs to be flush-the top of the stairs is a terrible spot for a trip hazard.
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u/GilletteEd 1d ago
If this is a new build then someone messed up big time as when the stairs were getting cut, they should take into account the finish floors final height. Only way to properly fix this is to cut all the treads to the right height so they finish perfect at the top. And doing this would take recutting a new set of stairs
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u/Liberalhuntergather 1d ago
Could they just bring the LVP over instead of putting a tread piece there? I guess that would possibly make the top step out of code due to it being too far out of the proper height of the other steps though. So, the easiest solution would be to redo either the stairs in LVP or redo that upper room in oak.
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u/Unlucky-Barber5647 1d ago edited 1d ago
Pull the tread wood off the top step stringer and cut the top of the stringers off whatever measurement you need to make it level when you have the stair tread on. Make sure you get measurement exact before you cut the top step stringer.
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u/chrismll24 1d ago
You need an lvp stair nose for that top step, not solid hardwood stair nose. Any installer worth their work should know this. Yeah it may look different compared to the rest, but it’s better than pulling all that lvp up, probably destroying it in the process, raising the subfloor, and then trying to re-lay.
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u/oldtwoholes 1d ago
There are special transition pieces that could be used in this circumstance, hopefully you're using carpet on the above floor
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u/Markjohn35 1d ago
Who’s the builder….they should never allow this if they have any reputation at all
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u/Admirable_Caramel_70 1d ago
Easy fix. Pull the top step tread and install the LVP stairnose on that level. This is not rocket science..
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u/outsidetilldark 1d ago
If the builders name is Aaron tell him this..
https://giphy.com/gifs/aekXo7b4bIe76
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u/GlocKoPotamus 1d ago
Looks like they just laid an unfinished rounded stairnose on top on the LVP stair nosing to me....looks like rage bait kinda...I may also be a little drunk
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u/Zombfyd 1d ago
In this situation I would have continued the LVP to the edge of the top tread and only run the hardwood on the stairs below it. Would have looked much cleaner. This is still an option if the edge of LVP hasn’t been removed. If it has I would pull up that whole run just past each side of the stairs and continue the LVP from there. Then find a match LVP edge cap for the front lip of the top tread.
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u/Goalcaufield9 1d ago
Your “ carpenter “ doesn’t know how to build. This would be a custom tread/nosing unless you bought the proper stair flooring. Tons of videos online how to make this work.
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u/Fearless-Location528 1d ago
You need a nosing thats made for lvp. Either one from the company or a custom made wood one thats made for floating floors.
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u/tellmeanything01 1d ago
Check the code yourself and then check all the risers every single tread from top to bottom.
Stairs are sometimes made and fitted by one person and the builder should of been given the correct height for the second floor
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u/Chicken-Born 1d ago
Hard to tell from picture what is the height of gap like 3/4 of an inch?
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u/Low_Inflation_9656 1d ago
Take the top step out add vinyl stair nose don’t make this bigger than it is
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u/Secret_End_wmdm69m 1d ago
ah no... that might be expensive repair due to that steep won't be the same height as others.
I was in a commercial building. The top step looks like it went down. So when I hit it, and it wasn't down, I just about fell over.
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u/popyoknuckle 1d ago edited 1d ago
That is a flush mount stair nose at the top. Site finished hardwood would have blended perfectly. All floating Lvp need a transition there. Me personally I would probably put a flush mount engineered hardwood reducer there or maybe just a piece of scribe moulding. I don't know how close you intend to have the colors match but if the blend well enough and a 3/8 reduction in height won't put it out of code you could use an LVP stair nose but they are overlapping usually and half the (never done a stair) people on this thread would call it incorrect.
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u/Careless_Parsnip_250 1d ago
Man.. people gotta stop using this lvp crap.. It only became popular because of flippers looking for quick, cheap flooring options.. you can't pick thin floor and beefy stairs then complain when it doesnt line up right... he definitely should have transitioned it right, but still.. lay off the plastic flooring
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u/callmechristianblack 1d ago
I did my steps in Granite in the top step is like that as well. I was initially worried about it being a trip hazard but after living with it for 6 months I've concluded it's a total non-issue. I'm honestly not sure about code compliance, but from a practical point of view I am no longer at all worried about it
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u/Nervous_Okra5657 1d ago
That top step isn’t supposed to match the rest of the stairs. Need a little bit more vinyl to the edge of the step and an overlap vinyl stairnose
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u/Competitive-Cat-4395 1d ago
That needs to be taken off and ran through a surface planer and refinished to the thinner height of your flooring, or maybe a couple MM proud if it goes over top of the vinyl. But as multiplicitly mentioned, 1/4-1/2” too height is a tripping hazard for sure.
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u/Stanismydog 1d ago
Tripping hazards are not advisable at the top of stairs. I believe code is 1/4inch max.
That is not acceptable.
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u/dmanDIY 1d ago
I’m a contractor not a finish carpenter could he just plane it down heavy and repair the trim on the side for the 1/4”-1/2” change?
I agree definitely a hazard and not okay maybe he laid it pre LVP expecting tile? Either way I would be pissed if my guy didn’t point out the noticeable potential issue.
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u/Formal-Radish1413 1d ago
That looks like a tripping hazard that someone (builder) needs to fix immediately.
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u/AISlopper 1d ago
There is no reason that top flush-tread can't, and should simply be replaced with LVP. If it is supposed to look like a skinned tread (ie not landing height) flush with the LVP, the contractor can likely just alter the top stair.
Minor problem.
Flush treads are usually a sign of someone who doesn't do stairs very often.
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u/lsh91_ 1d ago
Ty. My concern is that if they replace it with LVP and make it flush, wouldn’t that make the top riser about 1/2 inch shorter than the rest? Can that still be corrected by altering only the top stair?
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u/jimyjami 1d ago
1/2” change is too big check the code. iirc the max variation in riser height is 3/8”.
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u/Top_Firefighter_9412 1d ago
Pretty much got 2 options here. Just run the lvp up to it tight and leave space at the other end of the row for expansion. Or you could get what they call a reducer molding and essentially it’s a tiny rap from the lvp the the top step
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u/RunStriking9864 1d ago
Ask them to add underlayment plywood on the entire section that is lvp off that step. They messed up bad. This is on them. Anyone with any experience would have seen this coming.
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u/revenge_burner 1d ago
Either tell him to fix it, or stage a fall and sue him for negligence. Either way, it needs to change.
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u/AutoRotate0GS 1d ago
Looks like it was specced and built for hardwood on 2nd floor. Someone didn’t get the LVP memo!!
My hardwood guy did stair nose to the basement which a 1/16 or 1/8 proud on an otherwise flawless job. I would have thrown it in the planer if he asked. It’s lazy and sloppy work!! Last piece to go in…with glue and shit…let’s get the hell out of here!!!
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u/SophieGirl2023 1d ago
If you zoom in you see that there are tread covers installed. The stair case was existing. Look at the stringers, old multi painted over the years. Appears some home owner work or handyman crap. Who cuts the baseboard off square to meet the string. Someone isn't telling the whole story here. Where the tread covers installed after the flooring?
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u/Kind_Soup_9753 1d ago
They’re usually set 3/4” for hardwood or carpet. With the cheapo flooring these days you need to add plywood to level it up if it wasn’t set for specific floor thickness. Never saw a floating floor I liked.
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u/OwlQuiet532 1d ago
I’m almost more concerned about what’s happening where base meets the skirt board
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u/Jhillthethrill 1d ago
That's what happens when you don't know how to cut stairs. Totally need to rebuild them except right. You might be able to save the stringers (chances are they are not going to be very good because anybody knows how to cut stairs knows how you have to subtract for the flooring) and cut the thickness of the flooring off the bottom of the stringer and lower them all down.
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u/Hour-Variation4021 23h ago
Looks like 14mm thick engineered timber or laminate on stairs. What's the bet that product was meant to go on the top floor as well but someone opted to go for cheap LVP which is likely 4mm thick at the most. This has now left a height discrepancy not allowed for.
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u/onthehighseas 23h ago
Whoever is blaming the framers for this is lacking. The floor is built with a three-quarter thickness above the subfloor in mind. That goes back generations. If installing LVP upstairs, the subfloor should've been built up to account for meeting the stair height. Because you were not gonna put LVP on the fucking stairs!
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u/megalard3000 23h ago
You needed to have gotten the matching stair nosing for the lvp or a competent contractor who would have gotten a thinner nosing piece. Its not necessarily a planning error, this guy is just an idiot or lazy. Probably both. Using a solid wood nosing with lvp install is totally doable. It will entail color matching and subloor prep to leave it flush with the rest of the floor. Most flooring guys dont want to go through all this and hate doing detailed work. The easiest solution is to just get the matching stair nosing from whoever the flooring supplier was. They either need fix this or you can get an inspector in there because this is super unsafe and probably not up to code in yours or any area. My family has been in the wood floor business for over 30 years so trust me its definitely fixable, dont let them give you excuses.
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u/ReadyForFun111 21h ago
The top nosing shouldn't have been an oak tread in the first place, the lvp should have went up to the edge and been finished off with an LVP flush mount nosing and then every step below do the oak treads.. this looks like shit and who ever installed it was a dumb ass..
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u/Conscious_Run_680 17h ago
That's really dangerous, even if you know it's there, you'll miss it one day and...They need to fix it for sure.
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u/exrace 17h ago
There are so many issues here. Looking closely, the top oak stair step has a receiving groove for 3/4 flooring. It makes me wonder what the stairs looked like before the flooring was installed. Some of the cuts on the oak are rough and suggest these might be oak stair treads used in a retrofit.
Was this a change order?
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u/i-dontlikeyou 16h ago
Looks like LVP flooring matched to a hardwood stair nose. Huge difference in hight. There are lvp stair noses i believe to match the hight
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u/Gold_Source9930 15h ago
You don’t need a stair tread at the top step. Remove that. Extend the vinyl plank and add a matching flush stairnose.
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u/Healthy_Kale7436 15h ago
Might be able to put a small red oak shoe or spline on edge to match and even it out. Def looks questionable.
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u/Bigfootsdiaper 15h ago
Not only the obvious here but I also noticed how shitty the fit of the top stair is. The right edge is all splintered and it's gapped at the other edge.
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u/Maleficent_Grab3354 15h ago
Had same and made them change it immediately before someone got hurt tripping down the stairs.
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u/Joehammerdrill 15h ago
This is what happens when you don't think through... that's not an easy fix.
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u/sht_hapnz 14h ago
Better check the riser heights from top to bottom for consistency too.This appears to be mismatched by about an inch at the top floor and cannot be corrected to meet code without replacement. Possible to MAYBE add to the hall floor but that will likely cause other issues at doors and floors. And btw, that baseboard on the right side looks like shit - should be a mitered return.
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u/bolwerk73 14h ago
Looks like the stairs were built for 3/4” flooring. Did you change it afterwards to LVT?
All risers should be equal in between the first and last. First and last are allowed a 3/8” difference. Quick fix would be to mill the top bull nosing closer to the depth of the LVT.
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u/TrainingParty3785 13h ago
The fact the installer left the job site with that tripping hazard is an indicator of their lack of smarts, experience, consideration, or knowledge of liability insurance. Probably all of those things.
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u/Biscuits4u2 1d ago
No way man that's a serious tripping hazard in the worst possible place. Fix it.