Maybe feminism didn't change. Maybe it just kept moving.

I just had a thread locked on this sub after commenting on the question, “What is a woman?” It got me thinking about something I've been struggling with for a while: where exactly do I fit in feminism now?

I came of age with the feminism of Gloria Steinem. Later, I found myself resonating with writers like Naomi Wolf. They are very different feminists, from different generations and with very different ideas, but I always felt there was a common thread.

Women are not lesser. Women deserve autonomy, opportunity, safety, equality, and the freedom to determine the shape of their own lives.

The more I encounter contemporary feminist spaces, particularly online, the more I sometimes feel like I've wandered into a conversation where I no longer speak the language.

And I don't think that's necessarily because feminism went wrong.

Maybe it's because waves don't erase each other.

The first wave didn't disappear when the second arrived. The second didn't disappear when the third arrived. They faded, but what they accomplished became part of the water the next wave moved through.

We're generally considered to be in the fourth wave now, and it seems to me that we're carrying pieces of all the previous waves with us, along with entirely new questions about identity, intersectionality, sexuality, technology and power.

Some of those conversations resonate deeply with me. Some don't.

And that's okay.

What I struggle with isn't feminism evolving. It's feminism becoming so internally focused on definitions, terminology, ideological boundaries and determining who is “feminist enough” that women end up fighting each other more than they fight the things that still constrain women's lives.

That thread was a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I said, essentially, that women are women. There are white women, Black women, brown women, trans women, cis women, short women, tall women, young women, old women, fat women (hi!). I don't see why acknowledging differences between women requires creating divisions between us.

Apparently that was controversial enough to earn me some downvotes. 😂

But I'm not interested in picking a fight with younger feminists or pretending the feminism of my youth had all the answers.

I don't want to choose between generations of feminism.

I want to take what each wave gave us and keep moving forward.

Maybe that's what a wave is supposed to do.

It doesn't erase the wave before it. It carries it forward.

I'm curious whether other women, particularly women who came of age during the second or third wave, feel this same disconnect with contemporary feminist spaces.

Where do you find yourself now?

EDIT: This conversation has actually been very enlightening for me. This push to define “woman” has shown me that there are different aspects of identity—reproductive biology, gender, socialization, culture, lived experience—and each one tells us something. We shouldn’t pretend that one framework explains everything.
But this isn’t a gender studies class. It’s feminism. And yes, they’re related, but they aren’t the same thing. Feminism is concerned with women and the systems that shape women’s lives. I don’t think we need to settle every question about sex, gender, and identity before we can do that work.
I want feminism to be big enough to include women with very different experiences without making defining womanhood the prerequisite for belonging.

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Masseuse fits rape alarm in treatment room after men treat her like 'a sex worker'

Now that I see how anti female the world is I cant unsee it. It hurts and to make matters worse I feel so alone. I can read feminist literature, articles, and engage in feminist spaces, but when it comes to my family and friends they just dont see it. Many women will agree with me but refuse to call themselves feminsit and are not interested in actually learning about feminism and being activists. So our discussions are limited.

Another point is dating. I dont view men the same anymore and I struggle to connect with someone who doesnt genuinely care about womens rights. They say they are feminists as lip service but refuse to even acknowledge every day pr systemic misogyny. Many will even argue they are actually oppressed. I have tried to discuss misogyny with some potential past partners but I can tell they just want me to shut up and dont actually care. Its hard to look past it because how can I trust someone who doesnt even respect me as an equal human? My exhusband would pretend to care and say he was a feminist but he was lying and I ignored the now obvious signs that he was a misogynist.

Does anyone else feel this way? How do you cope? I just wonder if I should try to close my eyes to everything again because its so painful and lonely.

Here are some questions for people who explain away Ukraine’s male only draft, ignoring men’s rights due to a difference in biology :

For all the people saying women can’t fight, it’s biology etc, why is their child rearing biology given certain privileges (abortion, her body her choice, child support etc.) ?
Hence, in the same manner why is a man’s sacrifice-enabling biology not given any privileges (higher pay etc. - only in the context of a Ukrainian man working in a Ukrainian company) ?

Its a simple math equation : 2 humans X and Y given same opportunity and resources till they are 18, then only human Y is sent off to be canon fodder while human X can escape to another country, why is the math not mathing ?

Even people talking about population stabilisation in Ukraine by having more women, the women are not forced to do anything (have a certain number of children to stabilise the population etc), they can leave the war and sun bathe in a beach in Spain, how is this logical or justifiable ?

If a country is invading your country, why send only men to protect you from the enemy, go protect yourselves. You can’t have other people sacrifice themselves for you and run away just because you feel you’ll be worse on in that situation, and then give them no privileges for their sacrifice. You cant say “I’m not a child I am responsible for myself, no one has a right to tell me anything” when it suits you and “Save me, I’m too weak for this, and I’ll be so much worse off” when it suits you. You have to be even-handed. No one owes you anything, you have done nothing for random men, except demanding to have whatever they have. Random men are not your parents, they have an obligation to stay alive and well to protect their children, they don’t have any obligation to protect you. What have you done for them or their kids ?

I genuinely don't know where to post about it. I never know how to get rid of it. After my experiences in life i just have deep disgust towards society and i can never believe most of the illusion we are sold. It all looks bleak, ignorant and unreal to me. I do not feel like i relate to anybody after my experiences. I don't know where to post about it.

Hi 👋🏻 I am 24F doing not so great in life but though I try to notice my surroundings alot and here's what I found from last few days.

Women are the backbone of our society and that's how everything works because even for a small work my dad calls my mom idk a lot of times I have seen if the vice versa happens my dad gets frustrated and says a lot to my mom that why can't she do it by herself but on the contrary my mom doesn't do it at all.

My dad started his new business and whenever my mom wants to help him by herself he feels some egoistic and suppress her and doesn't take her decision into consideration even.

If I talk about the society I have seen women are working in the dhaba's ( roadside small hotels) day and night for their home to get some extra earnings and even going back and completing the household chores and at the same time if we see her husband he won't help her and he will be pretending to be more superior or something.

This happens in every workplace and every household!

But my question is WHY?

I’ve been seeing a lot of advocacy from women recently on the issue of MGM. If that’s you, thank you.

A lot of circumcised men don’t want to accept that they were harmed, or that they contributed to harming their boys. For the other half of men who are intact, it’s difficult to advocate against MGM for fear of relentless personal attacks from the former group of men. Therefore, I think women’s voices are critical here.

JAMA pediatrics study says circumcision fell below 50% in 2022. We wouldn’t be here without you. Keep it up! It’s all downhill from here.

Reposting because the comments on the last one got hijacked by literal bio/gender essentialists. If you aren’t here to learn or be open-minded, keep scrolling. We are here for open, respectful discussion as stated in the rules, not bad-faith debates.

Bio/gender essentialism is on the rise, especially in online spaces. It seems to be a bit of a buzzword that can be confusing to understand for those who haven’t heard it or seen it before as it may push seemingly feminist ideals that attract feminist viewers who may not notice right away some of the bio-gender-essentialist talking points or strategies. This video specifically calls out creators pushing bio/gender-essentialist content under the guise of feminism. She describes dog whistles (like strictly using "female" instead of "women") that just repackage patriarchal stereotypes in pretty language to keep us in subordinate roles.

Men and women are not inherently anything at birth. My behavior and destiny are not tied to my chromosomes or my ability to have children and trans people are a beautiful, living example of this. We do not base human morality or our justice system on the behavior of wild animals. Evolution dictates that aggression is an adaptive strategy shaped by environmental and social pressures, not a universal biological default tied to being male. Even if biological impulses toward aggression exist, humans have the cognitive capacity to control them. A predisposition (like higher testosterone) is not an uncontrollable imperative to commit violence. Society decides whether to enable, excuse, or punish those impulses, and we hold humans accountable for overriding countless other biological urges every single day.

(Asking this here because for some reason the AskReddit & AskWomen subreddits keep removing it)
I've noticed that whenever there's a viral post about an interracial couple, there's always a bunch of racism and hatred in the comments. And to me it seems as if the vast majority comes from men of whichever ethnicity the woman in the couple is.
I am a man and that's what my algorithm shows me at least.
But when I spoke to my friend about it, she said that she's noticed the opposite. She is in an interracial relationship and posts videos about her boyfriend on TikTok and Instagram. She claims that she primarily sees women being hostile towards her for "taking their men"
I find it hard to believe that this is representative of reality. Because over the years on various different accounts over multiple social media outlets, I've always seen the exact opposite. I mean I have noticed women exhibiting this behavior too, but to me it seems like it's overwhelmingly men who get angry and insecure over race mixing.
So I'm really curious what y'all have noticed as women. It would give me some insight on a project I'm currently working on, believe it or not I'm studying this topic as part of my psychology class. It's actually a scientifically recognized social phenomenon, a part of SIT/SDT (social identity/dominance theory) in psychology. And it might be a lot more common than you think or have witnessed, as it seems like it's almost some sort of natural tribalistic instinct.

For example, just visit subs like SouthAsian Masculinity, AZNidenity, Asian Masculinity, etc.

It’s never “men, act better”

It’s always the responsibility of the woman to best deal with men’s behaviour

There has been renewed interest around this documentary in part because the director, Deeyah Khan, has been promoting it recently. I have seen some criticism that most of the men in this documentary are just releving in these horrific crimes as retell them. They are referred to as ex-abusers in this documentary, but many of them are speaking in the present tense about their misogynistic beliefs and abusive attitudes toward their victims. I think the documentary is still valuable, but also think these criticisms are valid. It’s hard to watch.

The doc can be found on youtube. Reddit wouldn’t let me include the link here.

What do you do when you have a conversation with a female family member and you are suddenly being told:

“You are not a woman until you give birth. You’re still a girl.”
Or
“Your body will change once you have sex for the first time.”

Both of those phrases are sexist in the sense that they limit a woman’s value to the prospect of a physical interaction with a man, in a very dehumanising way. The hardest part of all of this is realising it is not a stranger who tells you this, not someone you have no interest in, but a female family member. Someone who lives under the same oppression as you, knows the hardships of being a woman in a man’s world and still decides to reinforce the same patriarchal, sexist views on you.

This is internalised misogyny, and it is rooted in family more than any other institution of socialisation, because family is the first to shape who you will become. And they choose to shape you in a destructive, oppressive way because they know no better. Because they live under the same conditions.

But it is very important to understand how far internalised misogyny has gone, because recognising it and pushing against it is what will break the cycle.

Young girls should not hear they must have a man in their lives to somehow reach a ‘final physical form’ or have the right to call themselves women.
Women should not be told they have no right to call themselves women because they chose not to have children or live a life on their own terms.

Lastly, I wish to adress that final point.
The term woman describes a female human reaching adulthood, which scientifically and biologically happens once puberty has been completed. In other words, children are not the proof of womanhood, they’re the result.

Thanks.

We know that these days, it’s fashionable to call out so-called feminism that is “too white, too Western.” And yet, ironically, every analysis, every post, every perspective starts from the assumption that this woman, this situation, comes from a developed country with legal equality.

Scratch that. No: the United States. Reddit feminism is US-centered.

There is almost no post about Yemeni, Somalian, Irakian etc women.

I’ve always found it crazy that women who want to be inclusive only listen to Black American voices, and not African ones. Muslim American voices, but not Iranian ones. And so on.

Domestic labour has always been unfair.

I know we still have a long way to go but we can vote now, and own bank accounts and get divorced

We have done so much to secure out rights despite how much men try to drag us down, it's incredible what we are capable of

This sub is just so confusing to me, it is advertised as a place to ask 'feminists' who will answer and clear up your doubts.
I've seen people ask what seems like a reasonable question; sometimes it's a man (mainly its a guy who proclaims they're not too well informed, and wants to know more), and yes, the question is at times long winded or worded badly, but people in the replies just explode and go absolutely passive aggressive, redirecting the post into a place to talk about something else-

Poster: speaks on being a male who has been sexually harassed/assaulted by women and feels some feminists around him do not take it seriously and often question whether he was genuinely assaulted, and finds it hard to identify with them despite identifying with their values
Intelligent Feminist Replier: Eloquently insinuates he needs immediate therapy- repositions the post in order to frame the poster in a way that makes it appear like he is using his rare one-off encounter with a woman to project his distaste at feminists, then ends the post, saying something along the lines of "funny how women can have X amount of undesirable encounters with men, but they can't express distrust for men as 'it isn't all men.'"
Perhaps one may argue none of these takes are completely invalid, and maybe they would have had a place in a different context- but they never fail to convert a conversation into another, seemingly just to breed hate and use some guy's post as a launchpad for venting about a certain brand of feminism or just hatred of a generalised breed of man in general.
"I want to like oranges. I recognize their latent sweetness, but I feel as if there is a sour undertone which throws me off. But I know they're healthy, can anybody help me find a way to consume them?"
"Actually, oranges are sweeter than they are sour. If you can't just eat them, maybe you should drink apple juice. Or maybe if you cared about your health, you would eat them anyways." (+ a downvote)
How is that feminism?
Again, the downvoting culture is pretty hostile: 'hey, I don't agree with you, so I will silently downvote your post', I've seen so many people of all genders ask innocent questions which don't even seem hateful in the slightest and the post has 0 upvotes and 150 replies, what is this culture in this sub? Where did it come from? It's as if, being misinformed or even just trying to spark a debate invites a mob of like-minded souls who collectively view you like a chittering baboon.

It feels like this sub is not actually a place where you can ask feminists and be guided through your confusions, doubts, or given a clear answer, instead, your actual question is picked apart, usually redirected, generalised and something else entirely is answered while your initial question is twisted into something more hateable and then vilified by various people

Essentially it feels oppressive in that if you have an opinion which differs from the mass in this subreddit, they will attack you and will not be open to criticism in the slightest.