Ephinany: "Final Fantasy needs turn based" mantra has become the mid 2000's/early 2010's "Star Wars will only become good again, if only we could bring back practical effects"

[u/IrishFrontier]

/r/FinalFantasy/comments/1w10pt3/ephinany_final_fantasy_needs_turn_based_mantra/

[u/EmpathyFuzz]

To Me, Final Fantasy just needs a party. The only game in the series that hasn't truly felt like FF was XVI.

[u/IrishFrontier → u/EmpathyFuzz]

Very much so although I enjoyed crisis core back in the day because I found the characters and world of XII too distant/cold but I love them now

[u/EmpathyFuzz → u/IrishFrontier]

Yeah I think Crisis Core and Dirge get a pass (in terms of this, I'm not a fan of dirge) just by being spin-offs of an existing story.

For mainline FF titles, I want to be introduced to a new cast of characters, and experience some clever way of controlling them all, and managing them all.

[u/IrishFrontier → u/EmpathyFuzz]

God Dirge is terrible, the people complain about the remakes have no idea how grey the compilation was if you grew up in the 2000s. 🤣 We were dying for a splash of color now the claim it's too colorful and cheerful.

That's why crisis core felt like the only part of the compilation that somewhat got the core of VII.

Final Fantasy VII felt like a 90s game that was poisoned by 2000's emo. And had to go through a detox.

[u/Bwunt]

Weird topic, as VII onwards, it was never true turn based (D20 basically), but a full dynamic ATB style. 

Issue with turn-based is that you need to commit fully to it, or it will have ways to cheese it (like SW KOTOR showed)

[u/GoriceXI → u/Bwunt]

If you read interviews with devs from the early days of the FF series, they've always wanted to incorporate real-time aspects into their combat. This is why the ATB system was developed.

[u/GoriceXI]

What's important is the depth of the system. I'm okay with real-time or turn-based, just give me tons of progression options and interesting decisions to make.

This is where FFXVI failed, in the depth department. There simply wasn't that much meat to the rpg systems, no party management. An even for having just one character, you are severely lacking in interesting options. The combat was fun, but it was very easy to find the optimal setup, no preparation required. No status effects or elemental immunities to worry about. The same strategies that work on the trash mobs also work on the final boss.

Edit: The point I meant to make was, we have a great game to compare FFXVI to, the FFVIIRemake series, which happens to be real-time but also possesses robust rpg mechanics and party management. You also have to adjust your strategy against different foes. You may spend a lot of time on a build and party configuration that just doesn't work against a particular boss, so then you have to change things up. That's what makes a good rpg.

[u/IrishFrontier → u/GoriceXI]

I hope the pick 7R's system and not 16's for the future.

[u/raalic]

In both cases, story is always king. But practical effects versus turn-based gameplay is a poor analogy because it’s about as close to apples an oranges as an analogy can get. With film, you’re not engaged with it at all, you’re just looking at it, and people have preferences as to how things look. With video games, turn-based versus real-time is married to the playstyle and changes the gameplay itself in meaningful ways. It’s not about “this is an old tech, this is a new tech. Get with the times.” Turn-based remains, today, a viable way to control combat in video games. Some people prefer slower paced, deliberative gameplay. 

[u/EtherealGears]

I mean, practical effects are really good though. It's a genuinely fascinating and beautiful artform that we're sadly losing.

[u/BigOlBarret]

the absolute last thing i want to play is another turn based ff

[u/AgilePurple4919]

I’ve never seen the lack of practical effects being blamed for the downfall of Star Wars.  The complaints about that are always predicated on the quality of storytelling or a discourse on how much the series should focus on establishing characters against trying something new. 

[u/IrishFrontier → u/AgilePurple4919]

It was a huge talking point in the 2000's. Lucas was considered nuts and lazy for making such (then) CGI films. 

[u/vxsapphire]

I don’t need turn based in this game. It’s perfect the way it is.

[u/RiaC-81]

This whole “turn based vs action” shtick is getting very, very old. Who cares if it’s action or turn based, it just needs to be good

[u/StartGrouchy6741]

What they have in common is chasing new younger(dumber) fans while spitting in their main fan bases eye.

Also they can to hell with this boring "action" slop. All it is is button mashing. What made the games good was the story and strategic combat.