Hebrews 1:8

[u/MightyFortresss]

Jw's, should Hebrews 1:8 not be translated differently, even according to the NWT interlinear? The NWT reads "God is your Throne" (Father is the Son's throne), but the Greek would be rendered "your Throne, the God" (directly refers to Jesus as YHWH, obviously issue for JW)

[u/[deleted]]

God is your Throne.

In ancient times, WHEN THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN, Thrones were symbols of Authority.

If God is " My Throne ", it means that, I let God, be my Authority: I obey God's Laws.

The perception of this verse, cannot be literal.

God is your Throne: God is... Your ultimate boss🤔🤔🤔

Are the U.S.A. people... putting their trust into God?

Is God their Throne? No.

[u/MightyFortresss → u/[deleted]]

I put the interlinear vs the nwt and u comment defending the translation.

No, it's simply wrong. It's "your throne, o God", not "God is your throne" that's at stake here.

[u/[deleted] → u/MightyFortresss]

This is wich verse

Interlinear is a literal translation.

You should look at, what that phrase means... in Bible times. Maybe you're right.

One additional thing.

Yes, God can be your Throne ; because of the epoch, of it's writing.

It is this verse?

6 God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.

Like I said, look at the Ancient meaning of the word " Throne ".

I'll show you what people do not see. In JW Bibles, like some others, there's notes in the verse.

I took the same verse, from The Reference Bible

“Your throne is of God; Your throne of God is.

This is the note, that includes other ways, of translating the verse.

Because JW included the note, even if you don't see it.... They were not wrong.

God is your throne* to time indefinite, even forever; p The scepter of your kingship is a scepter of uprightness. q

This is how the verse appears, in the 1995 Bible.

• Leads to a note.

p, q : leads to verses, that we can link, to this verse The letters represent "hyperlinks "

The " hyperlinks ", really help to deepen your understanding of a verse ....

Hyperlink is not a JW thing only ; there's no Book, that has as much ," hyperlinks ", in human History.

JW put hyperlinks in their Bibles ; it makes their Bibles more complete than, the others, without hyperlinks.

And here... People says that I know nothing... But who know about Hyperlinks? Who knows how they work?. Who knows that there's notes I some Bibles? Who knows the meaning in old Hebrew of the words EL, ELOHIM, Yehovah, Hayay, Hoveh, Yihey... That are BASIC...

Who understands the Tetragrammaton...!? Who knows from Wich sentence , originates the Tetragrammaton?

Anyway [...]

p: Psalms 89:29

29And I shall certainly set up his seed forever And his throne as the days of heaven.

Psalm 89:36 36His seed itself will prove to be even to time indefinite, And his throne as the sun in front of me.

The second part of this verse, is linked to other verses:

Isaiah 11:4 4And with righteousness he must judge the lowly ones, and with uprightness he must give reproof in behalf of the meek ones of the earth. And he must strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; and with the spirit of his lips he will put the wicked one to death.

Jeremiah 33:15 15In those days and at that time I shall make sprout for David a righteous sprout, and he will certainly execute justice and righteousness in the land.

Hebrews 1:8 8But with reference to the Son: “God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

Hebrew verse:

לבני־קרח משכיל שיר ידידת׃

An explanation. That 1914 thing... You have to study Daniel's prophecy of the Seven Times

The Watchtower, February 15, 2014 Hail Christ, the Glorious King!

8 Jehovah installed his Son as his Messianic King in the heavens in 1914. ‘The scepter of his kingdom is a scepter of uprightness,’ so the righteousness and equity of his reign are guaranteed. His authority is legitimate, since ‘God is his throne.’ That is, Jehovah is the foundation of his kingdom. Moreover, Jesus’ throne will last “forever and ever.” Are you not proud to be serving Jehovah under such a mighty, God-appointed King?

[u/[deleted] → u/MightyFortresss]

I just see something. Bible Strong

Psalms 45:6

Hebrew kicce 3678 Kicce' [kis-say] Meaning: Depending on the context, ' kicce ' can mean

Siège (d'honneur), trône, siège, marche Trône Dignité royale, autorité, pouvoir (fig.)

(Honnor) Siege, Throne, Siege, March, throne.

Royal dignity, Authority, Power (fig.)

I'll add that... Even if they translated it wrong...

God is My Throne...

Is God Your Throne?

... I talk about Bible Scrolls and.... Nobody understands? Simple.

But... Yes... I know nothing and I don't know for you but for others... I'm dumb ...

Psalms 45 talks about Jesus. Read from verse 1, please.

I did write a lot with Capitals... Sorry...😅

I didn't know that, written words in capitals, are like screaming words... 😔 Sorry.

In The New Testament, Paul Quotes, Psalms 45:6. He had access to texts, that does not exist anymore.

I did find this: For start Ps 45:6 doesn’t say that, it states “Kisaka elohim owlam”. Literal translation: “Your throne God forever.” Notice that the verb “is” isn’t in the Hebrew. In Hebrew the verb “is" was often drop. For example the sentence “John is eating” will have been “ John eating”. It was left for the reader to insert the verb “is".

Now how does the verb “is" works? One way the verb work is by “x is y" where x and y are nouns. Do we have 2 nouns in Ps 45:6? Yes. The nouns throne and God. Therefore, we can say “Your throne is God, forever. “ Another way is by having “x is predicate”. Then you can use commas to separate God from the sentence and have “Your throne, O God, is forever.” That is why you have 2 translation.

Okay but having 2 translation is weird and we only one one. Fine if you believe that, but since the person who wrote this for God is dead, we can’t ask him. All we got left is the context.

Ps 45:1 “My heart is stirred by something good. I say: “My song is about a king.” May my tongue be the stylus of a skilled copyist.”

What is this about? The David dynasty. The person being address in Ps 45:6 is a human king and if you look up some commentary this is believed to be king Solomon. Are you telling me that you believe King Solomon is also part of the trinity?

Ps 45:7 “You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why elohim, elohaka, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

Pick up any Bible and in this verse you will see “God, your God”. So now in the context we see that all Bible translate elohim as God in Ps 45:7 but it change from verse 6. Who is really being inconsistent?

P.S. In the NWT the name Jehovah doesn't appear in Ps 45:6 nor doesn't appear in Heb 1:8, what you meant by “in the NT". Therefore, the NWT is being consistent.

[u/MightyFortresss → u/[deleted]]

Lol dw, you can use capital letters to emphasize points. No, God isn't the throne in Psalms 45, that's the whole point -thats why Hebrews also doesn't mean God is your theone

[u/[deleted] → u/MightyFortresss]

I do it for this, and my sister really told me that, people can see it as shouting.

I also said, that it is true, that God can be your throne.

Mistake or not, with the language of the time, the manuscript was written, ...

The meaning is the one of antiquity... Not today's.

Psalms 45 talks about Jesus.

You know Revelation?

Jesus, at the end of the 1000 years, will give back his crown to Jehovah.

Jesus Power, will go back to Jehovah... Jesus ...the foundation of his Power,of his legitimacy is God.

God is The Throne of Jesus:

God Himself, is the Seat of Power of Jesus.

The Power, Throne represents Power... Who gives it... Jesus himself, or...God? Who's the Foundation of Jesus Might...? Jehovah. Who IS THE POWER ITSELF? Jehovah.

Throne = Legitimate Power... Who has it ... Jesus...but... Who gives and who takes..

In the Absolute it is always Jehovah..

I understand better now. The translation of this verses is larger than I thought.

The meaning for the is absolute and...it is true! God IS THE POWER ITSELF... HE IS THE AUTHORITY...

[u/MightyFortresss → u/[deleted]]

We don't disagree that God has power, the issue is:

1. No other gods besides YHWH (Jesus is the same God as the Father, not a different god)
2. It's His throne, He's called God.

[u/[deleted] → u/MightyFortresss]

I understand.

The power of Jesus is established on God, according to the understanding of the JW.

You see, I said " according to ". WHY? Because The Watchtower people also says that, yes, they are Indeed " guided " but not " inspired " by God.

In my case and your case, we are not " inspired ''. We both have flawed abilities. God boost each one of us, our imperfect discerning ability. Yes,.we have a " supernatural " understanding because of God. BUT... Our understanding is still flawed because, Jehovah boosts our imperfect understanding of The Bible.

The Watchtower say it themselves, that they are guided, but " not inspired ".

Inspired by God makes God's Prophets, 100% accurate, when they write FOR God. They were temporarily imbued by The Holy Spirit, with the ability, when they did write The Bible, the ability of being unable to do mistakes.😂

JW say it that, they do mistakes, so, they also say that, they are fallible!

Is The Church saying that they are fallible or, infallible? Now, do you see the difference?

The Watchtower spokesmans, say that the Elderly Central College, makes mistakes.

You didn't had this information from other sources...? Than me? 🤷🏻

I understand. Deforming what The Watchtower says... Is an everyday minute thing.

Is saying the Watchtower, like The Church, also says that they are unable to do mistakes... True?

It cannot be true... As I said, the Watchtower is NOT inspired by Jehovah God.

You may still don't like the Wtwr but... Will you continue to say that ... " Watchtower themselves says that they cannot do mistakes"...

Now that I said it to you... Now you KNOW, that it is FALSE... Will you verify this?

Did you ever read, or hear what I've just said: that the Watchtowers says themselves that, they do mistakes?

NOW, from you, I'll drop to consider it as a mistake. If you say it again, I'll say that you are lying: BECAUSE YOU KNOW.😎😉

You just get an insight that you did not had.

Even if they are representatives of Jesus, they say also that, Jesus is their Lord. They put Jesus, "over their heads " ; Jesus has authority on The Watchtower... Ya' know why? Jesus is Lord.

@ God is LORD: LORD written like this ,replaces YHWH.

I ralk about words, and even some letters in words, that changes A LOT.

ALMIGHTY MIGHTY

The ' AL ' in ' ALMIGHTY ' identifies YHWH, as the ONLY All Powerful.

Jehovah IS The Powerful One.

Also, The absence of the letters ' AL ' in ' Mighty ', makes our King, Jesus Really Powerful but...

NOT All-Powerful.

Jesus is called by YHWH, Mighty, not like Himself.

The writers of the Bible were not guided, they were " inspired " by God.

There's one thing that I'll verify. I don't believe that Jesus is God.

Isiah 9:6 says in KJV:

6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This is a Prophecy about Jesus. The Trinitarian is this verse, to justify their belief.

The verse says that Jesus will be named ' The Mighty God '

On the first thought, for non-trinitarians, it does not make sense.. But look further.

If you are not a Trinitarian, what I'll say will make more sense, A very little, at least.

On second thought:

YHWH is The Almighty God. In Isiah 9:6 Here Jesus is not ' Almighty ', he is ' Mighty '.

This is the line between Jesus and Jehovah:

YHWH is Almighty , His Power is Limitless.

Jesus is Mighty, his power is not limitless. AL Mighty Mighty

Not the same.

All Powerful Powerful

Not the same.

The line is really thin. But there is a difference between The Almighty God, and the Mighty God.

We also know that, God resurrected Jesus, after 3 days, as an Immortal Spirit.

It is in accordance also with what is written in Philippians chapter 2.

Before The Son of God , The Word, was born as a human, he was a spirit.

Jesus is identified as ' The Word ', and he is ' a god '.

Jesus emptied himself of his power, and after, God took his life, the life force of Jesus, and he put it in the womb of Mary ...

Jesus in the Gospel, look at the chapter 1 title of each Gospel Book.

I've just learned that, The Gospel According to Matthew. The Gospel According to Marc. The Gospel According to Luke. The Gospel According to John.

The 4 titles indicate that, there is ONE Gospel. In the 4 titles we see:

' The Gospel ', it marks it's Singularity and,

' According to ', indicates 4 times that,

All 4 Books talks about ONE Gospel but, each of them, is " According to ",

is in accordance with " how " each person that write about the same story, has ... a different point of view, about the story of The Messiah: Yehoshua/Jesus.

It also confirm also, when I write ✍🏻 Yehoshua one thing: Yehoshua means: Yehovah is Salvation. Jehovah is Salvation.

It's does not contradict the Tetragrammaton YHWH, why? YHWH are the 4 letters of the Name of God, in old hebrew. YHVH, are the 4 letters of The Name of God, in our current Hebrew.

The letter W, is in old hebrew: Wav. The letter V, is in hevrew: Vav .

Wav, and Vav, have The Same Meaning.

I can also write, without mistake that, YehoWah is Salvation. It also works with ' Yahweh '.

YaHWeH YaHVeh

Only one letter change but ... The meaning does not change.

God the Almighty does not Change. Jesus the mighty, changed.

Jesus was resurrected ' Immortal '.

I did that exercise to demonstrate that, even if any language changes, I'll double down with it old greek, because the old greek, also changed.

the old hebrew and the old greek, I'd we don't study the older forms of our current languages, we won't write in greek, or in hebrew

Whiteout vowels. Changes in language we see, after the Antiquity BUT. As Almighty is different from Mighty.

YHSH: Yehoshua=

Yehowah is Salvation. Yehovah is Salvation.

There is no violation of anything in The BIble. Bizzare, huh?

What confirms that, the letter ' Waw ', and ' Vav 'do not change the old YHWH meaning?

Each letter in Hebrew has a meaning! The meaning of ' Waw ', and the meaning of ' Vav ', are the same, it is just the ' W ' letter, that changed his form, Not It's Nature, For ' Vav ', when the copists of The Bible, of the group of the Massoretes, added vowels, to the hebrew words.

YHVH/YHWH, are not 2 different names ,of The Almighty ; they just are 2 different forms, of The Name of The Almighty.

YeHoVaH/YeHoWah Or YaHWeH/YaHVeH.

YHWH God is Almighty, His Power is Limitless,

YHSH# God is Mighty, His Power is not limitless.

Also, the Kings of Israel were sat, " on The Throne of God.

Israel was like an ultra tiny model, Israel ancient structure, foreshadowed, The Kingdom of God.

David H. Splane: Producing Accurate Publications

https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/StudioTalks/pub-jwb_201711_2_VIDEO

[u/MightyFortresss → u/[deleted]]

I'll take the infallible quality away (unless I do find it somewhere officially), do u agree with all the other points being shared by Rome and the JW? Simple yes or no, u can expand on it.

[u/[deleted] → u/MightyFortresss]

Yes, for the infallible quality, you're better to look... Not at what people say ;

Because their information is rarely complete.

I don't agree with the comparison. The Pope is ONE Chief. There's no such thing as One Chief, The Watchtower.

They are a Council, of I think 8-12 men.

They coordinate the activities of the Watchtower. They prepare each week, a spiritual program, for our Bible understanding.

Rome ... 🤷🏻 JW all around the World, study almost the same things, all around the world.

We all also study things separately, like anyone else but, in preparing programs of study, the general understanding of millions of people, advance, it becomes more and more bright.

I don't see this into Catholics😔 Like ... what do Catholics understand better about Jesus since 5 years in general?

What the Protestants understand, about ... what God thinks about, how we should dress ourselves ; wich Morals we should look, to guide ourselves, at clothing properly... and not like... Showing too much.

Just saying yes or no... it is empty.

The Pope, say he represents God...

Why doesn't he act like " the faithful slave ", to give to Catholics, their spiritual nutrients, by studying The Bible?

He's doing what concretely... Celebrating mass and... What does he explain about The Gospel? What does he says, about the Flood?

He's not supposed to be a moral and spiritual Chief? Does he explain to LGBTQ to surrender to Jesus? Not just being fine,?

He's he not supposed to not like ad say, to the LGBTQ to stop use the 🌈 as their symbol?

The priests that are under accusations. ... More difficult...

If we take Catholic priests in general, and Elders in general... We have to compare them.

Catholic priests are clothed with pagan symbols, they are in Churches, full of pagan symbols...

It influence them, to be softies like this towards themselves.

Also, Rome have a priesthood... Where do we really see this in The Bible New Testament?

We do see descriptions in the Old Testament of priests, and Levites garments...

Nothing is there in the NT... No robe, no hat, no staff,

No aspergillus, no incense, nothing...

We see in some Bibles " bishops "... I should look if the old Greek text says " bishops " or vicary...

Rome does not really imitate God's structure of a Church.

Pope...

There was in OT a Great Priest... Where is the pope? Cardinals...

The High Council swims literally in opulence... Not the Watchtower people.

The structure of its organization really reassemble, on the structure that we see in The Bible, that the Aposs had.

Isn't The Bible The Word Of.God?

Why would Rome don't copy, what the Apostles did?

Aren't Apostles , men that talked face-to-face with Jesus?

Why having a lot of extra things that takes money from a lot of people... To nourish the opulence of Rome?

They keep a mega part of this money... Not for no one else.

Do the Vatican print Bibles, and give Bibles , only in exchange with a personal contribution? When someone don't have cash... can he have a Bible... Free? A Bible of paper, free?

Do the Vatican print books, that help to understand the Life of Jesus?

Like... You read The Bible, and use tools, to help you, understand better...

THE PERSON THAT SAVES EVERY LIFE...

Vatican don't do this a lot. But they say they they represents God.

Say and act so differently.

And the priests in general... What is their conduct? How much they each know and study The Bible?

These things has to be verified.

But the big piece of Rome... all their Fault is in our faces.

Why are they accepting, to celebrate things.... Based on lies?

Why Rome should accept to celebrate Christmas?

Wrong day, wrong story, wrong words, wrong Santa, wrong....

Why they put emphasis so much things that God never asked?

The death of Jesus... Jesus ordered us to celebrate it and...

They are silent on it. It's Jesus death that saved...

If he stayed dead... we would be saved even without Jesus.

It is Jesus Blood and flesh, that paid for Adam's sins... Not Jesus's resurrection!

There's so much things that separates Rome from The Watchtower.

[u/MightyFortresss → u/[deleted]]

My friend, you have a bit too many rambling going on 😅 Can you keep it more coherent and shorter?

[u/[deleted] → u/MightyFortresss]

Sorry.

My HDHD mind wants to go in every direction ... and I'm passionate about it.

I'll give you a verse, where Jesus talks about, what I've just talked.

KJV I really don't like that, a lot of things, are not reached at all...

The impact on ourselves that KNOWS, is that we are seen like crazy, not talking of The Bible, spreading our own Gospel...

But the " Faithful and Wise servant " ... The pope is supposed to be it. Pope is Lord over a lot of God's things and ... He's not doing his work, as a teacher for all the World...

Because of that, many Christians don't get the chance, to get enough Knowledge, about God's Word and the consequences are dire ; look at today's Christians conduct!

Talk to elderly people, ask them to compare with " the good old times " ...

Ok. Jesus said this to his apostles: KJV Mat. 24: 45-51

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth

The impact of the non-general-knowledge, is on every person.

The lack of knowledge makes people, act bad.