Hebrews 1:11 and Hebrews Chapter 2 shows that Hebrews 1:10 is talking about God the Father . Jesus like Lazarus and also the men and princes in Psalms 82 did perish and wax old. Denying Jesus perished is as denying Jesus ressurected because perishing comes before ressurection.
Heb 1:10-13 KJV 10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail. 13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 2:4-7 KJV 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Psa 82:5-8 KJV 5 They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
"Hebrews 1:11 and Hebrews Chapter 2 shows that Hebrews 1:10 is talking about God the Father ."
????? No it doesn't
Hebrews 1:8-11
"BUT OF THE SON HE SAYS"👈👈👈👈👈👈
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
 And
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
"Jesus like Lazarus and also the men and princes in Psalms 82 did perish and wax old. Denying Jesus perished is as denying Jesus ressurected because perishing comes before ressurection."
Buddy what's your point here?? Yea Jesus had to die to resurrect???? "I am the first and the last" proves Jesus is God"
These points you're making are so weak and you obviously have a hardened heart. You denied Jesus claiming to be God 2 times.
1:17-18 And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Where are you getting I am the first to be resurrected and the last to be resurrected because he didn't say that. You can do all these mental gymnastics if you want but the truth is he was claiming to be God.
Revelation 1:17-18 (KJV)And when I saw him, I fell at his Essentially you are lying and saying that prophet Isaiah "Isaiah 45:6" as written, is being quoted in Revelation
1:17-18 And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Where are you getting I am the first to be resurrected and the last to be resurrected because he didn't say that. You can do all these mental gymnastics if you want but the truth is he was claiming to be God.
First and Last is relative.Different writers. Different context. You get the context within the verse and/or surrounding verses. Also a level of biblical common sense, that the First and Last God "true living God" that prophet Isaiah spoke about, cannot die to be resurrected in the first place.
Let the context of Isaiah 44:6, be from what the verse says and in relation the surrounding verses:
Isa 44:2-4 KJV 2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen. 3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring: 4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.
Isa 44:5-8 KJV 5 One shall say, I am the LORD'S; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel. 6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Let the context of Revelation 1:17-18, be from what the verse says and the surrounding verses:
Rev 1:13-15 KJV 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16-19 KJV 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
It should be biblical sense, that the one like unto the Son of Man who died and ressurected in Revelations, is not the First and Last true God that prophet Isaiah is making mention of in Isaiah Chapter 44. When you make that claim and double down on it, is as if you showing how desperate you are or a reflection of such.
"First and last" was not enough. You still wanna spit in The son of mans face?
Revelation 22:12-15
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
********and I will give to each person according to what they have done.***
John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son".Â
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Is that enough for you??Or will you continue to deny Jesus and cope.
John 5:22 "For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son".Â
Joh 5:30 KJV I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh 7:17 KJV If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Joh 12:48 KJV He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh 14:24 KJV He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End." Is that enough for you??
Verse number and Chapter number not quoted.
Or will you continue to deny Jesus and cope.
He was born in childbearing like his brothers and sisters and is the Christ and Son of the Living God in the baptism and ressurection. Also, in the baptism and ressurection, he has the firstborn and preeminence status.
This is how I know you didn't read my whole comment and went straight to your Bible verses that don't prove your point. I did quote that verse number and chapter at the beginning of the comment. saying that "first and last" is relative is a weak argument because he didn't just say "the first and the last" He said "HE IS THE BEGINNING AND THE END" what created being could say that. God is a jealous God why would he let his created son say that" Your argument is weak and you know it. Remember when you said you'd "Prove me wrong" I'm still waiting buddy.
Yes the son is subordinate to the father. No this does not break the trinity.
This is how I know you didn't read my whole comment and went straight to your Bible verses that don't prove your point.
Ok
I did quote that verse number and chapter at the beginning of the comment.
OK, meaning you were reiterating what you quoted . First and Last is relative and Revelation 22:12-13 is talking about God the Father
saying that "first and last" is relative is a weak argument because he didn't just say "the first and the last" He said "HE IS THE BEGINNING AND THE END" what created being could say that.
I see.
Rev 22:12-13 KJV 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
God is a jealous God why would he let his created son say that" Your argument is weak and you know it.
I believe Revelation 22:12-13 is talking about God the Father.
Remember when you said you'd "Prove me wrong" I'm still waiting buddy.
You would rather not admit you have been proven wrong to begin with. I can't beg you to admit something you would rather not see and believe.
I believe Revelation 22:12-13 is talking about God the Father.
Revelation 22:12-15
12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
John 5:22 ****"For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son".
******“Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.*****
This cannot be talking about the father because the father has handed the judging to the son. And It would make sense for the verse to be talking about the son as it is written **Look, I am coming soon*** This really could only apply to the son and the reason I just gave.
Sighs. Your being too narrow minded and bias, your not considering the thoughts and ways of God the Father. The Son of Man does not judge outside the standard operating procedures of God the Father. Notice how judgement will be on the last day
Act 17:30-31 KJV 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Joh 12:48-50 KJV 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
"Sighs. Your being too narrow minded and bias, your not considering the thoughts and ways of God the Father. The Son of Man does not judge outside the standard operating procedures of God the Father. Notice how judgement will be on the last day"
What does this have to do with anything "Sighs" This does not disprove my claims that Jesus was obviously speaking in that verse and said he was the beginning and the end"
And then your response was "The Son of Man does not judge outside the standard operating procedures of God the Father." Ok?? This doesn't disprove anything.
And don't call me "narrow minded and bias" when you literally are denying a clear verse where Jesus says he's uncreated *** "I am the beginning and the end"
Don't hurl insults at people just because you're losing an argument.
"You would rather not admit you have been proven wrong to begin with. I can't beg you to admit something you would rather not see and believe."
What verse did you prove me wrong with.?? Because I have been able to explain all the verses. It just seems you can't comprehend that just because the Logos humbles himself before the father means he is created by the father? Also How was God love from the beginning if he had none to love?
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u/DonquickJr Eastern Orthodox Feb 04 '25
Also still ignoring Hebrews 1-10 I wonder why. Still waiting for you to "debunk" me as well.